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View Full Version : Transworld to charge to attend St Louis Conv.



xxxdirk
11-03-2009, 01:26 PM
Just got off the phone with TW and they are going to lower the age limit to 16 this year, but are also charging $40 to attend. This includes 1 seminar and admission into the welcome party...
Thoughts?

drfrightner
11-03-2009, 01:48 PM
Here is what I think... $40.00 isn't enough and I expect it will rise over the years probably up to $100 per person within a few years. And I think its what should be done and I'm happy they are doing it.

Couple of things...

1) You can't put all the weight of the show on the vendors, while the buyers share no responsibility what so ever for the productions of the show. The show is more or less for the buyers, all the seminars, education, events are geared for buyers so buyers should share in the cost of the show.

2) If you increase both costs for vendors because they are the only ones you can turn to for income to produce the show what happens... vendors skip the show (bad for buyers) or they reduce booth space (bad for buyers). You want to see new stuff you want vendors of all shapes, sizes, and styles to attend and not be left out in the cold because they are a start up or what ever. Buyers can help themselves by sharing the cost of the show to keep vendors costs lower.

3) Fact is this show can only get so big it will never be some 1 million square foot show so ... there is a limited amount of vendors to buy booth space so costs of these shows of these sizes must be shared between vendor and buyer to keep them profitable for the producer in this case Transwrold.

4) Lastly let me give PROPS to Transworld they are taking this serious... they have attended with their booth to promote our show at Hauntcon, MHC, Water park Show, Fun Expo and now IAAPA coming up. Additionally I've seen ads in all the major amusement magazines recently. They are going FULL BLAST THIS YEAR... they are spending their money on this show and I expect it will be very successful and well worth the $40.00 or whatever they charge.

5) Lastly, if you are getting entrance into events or seminars or whatever those cost money as well so atleast to me it seems like you are getting something for your money and that is a good thing.


It was going to happen I'm simply surprised it was only $40.00 I was expecting $50 or $75.00.

Larry

graystone
11-03-2009, 03:39 PM
Personally I don't care what they charge, but I don't agree with the statement that the buyers should share the cost. The buyers are spending tens of thousands of dollars they are not making money or selling anything at the show to recoup their admission. If a vendor sells enough then he will not miss the rent he pays on his booth and will look at it as a wise investment for his or her company. So I am not sold on that statement.

What if Wal-Mart, Target, Sears, every store out there said we will sell to you but you will have to help us pay our rent? Or what if those Haunts out there said the cost of admission is $15.00 but to help us on rent were going to tack on another $5.00? Again I am not buying that and I don't see alot of people buying it either. I also don't see vendors droping their prices because the buyers are helping pay their rent. I would have just said thats how it is throw it on TransWorld and leave it at that. That statement just makes the vendors look bad and I don't think they want to be in that boat. Again I will attend but this is just another 50 to 100 bucks people has to pay on top of food, gas, plane, rooms ect. Shane and its I don't know the answer to this one! Shane this time.

***Just to add to this and say I agree with Scott 16 is still to young. I don't see alot of 16 year olds spending money. And when its all said and done I think the vendors will see this will end up costing them even more money as they will have more of their printed materials in the hands of kids who want it for a collection. Bottom line if you think you lost alot of printed materal to non buyers wait till the kids tote them off. Also was this not the reason we/they moved to St.Louis because everything cost less?

poison
11-03-2009, 06:15 PM
Well i have to say that Larry makes a very good point. The show is getting tougher and tougher to do every year. Rising costs of booth space, Air, Electric, drayage, shipping, etc.
And there are so many costs involved with owning your own SEASONAL business, rent, insurance, tools, etc. So just to to one trade show a year is really expensive and cuts into your profit. And then add on the fact that you will only be selling and building products for about 6 to 7 months out of the year.
And you have to be able to float your company on what ever you made during that time.
And Shane makes a valid point too. Haunt owners aren't open all year either. A very short window to make a profit. But many of them set up and tear down.

So bottom line is maybe this new policy will help bring in more serious buyers and a few less tire kickers.

Just my 2 cents : )

zimmerman
11-03-2009, 07:22 PM
If a haunt brings four attendees to the show it will cost them $160.00. I'm on a tight budget. For me, that is $160 less that I'll probably be spending on props. This might be good for TW. I hope the vendors get enough of the admission fee or reduced rental costs to offset the loss in sales.

UndeadProd
11-03-2009, 07:35 PM
Hi, not to sound too much like an old crank ... but I'm not a fan of lowering the age limit to 16. This is a business show, and I'm not excited to hear that there will be non-qualified buyers clogging up the show floor and occupying the vendors' time.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of inspiring and encouraging students to get into the field -- but Transworld is a show for business owners and buyers. I love that shows like MHC and Hauntcon are family friendly, but why make it that much harder for haunt vendors to work with qualified buyers at Transworld.

I'm going back to watching Judge Judy. You kids git off my lawn!

HauntedMemphis
11-03-2009, 07:46 PM
Anyone who think's this is expensive, wait until it moves back to Chicago.

ThECRaZyLadY
11-03-2009, 08:17 PM
Don't we get enough of this during the season?, Immature and annoying teens, no offense Nick. I have a 16 year old son myself and he will NOT be attending. Also at 16 they can't make any legal decisions, so hows that going to work. If the $40 is to get rid of some of the "tire kickers" don't you think that you are inviting more? Isn't this a business show/convention?? I will tell you if I were a vendor I wouldn't be happy about this.

Christina
FEARFEST

UnDeRTaKer313
11-03-2009, 09:09 PM
LOL WOW!!!! you got to be kidding me!!!!
THis year i will be 18, and after all the years of waiting they lower the age now that im old enough hahhahahahahahaha

good thing we had a good year, gonna load up on some props at this thing!

and honestly, dont even be worried about kids coming, its essentially a very big halloween store to them, no 16 year old would pay 40 bucks to get into it... im glad they raised the price, it almost makes it feel more exclusive by doing this. most trade shows are crazy expensive like larry said. couple extra bucks isnt a big deal

shawnc
11-03-2009, 09:49 PM
What if Wal-Mart, Target, Sears, every store out there said we will sell to you but you will have to help us pay our rent? Or what if those Haunts out there said the cost of admission is $15.00 but to help us on rent were going to tack on another $5.00?

This has actually been happening for a long time. The warehouse stores like Costco and the Price Club have charged admission to shop there for decades. And UPS charges based on the size and weight of a package, how far away the delivery is and how fast you want to get it there. But before you write the check, they tack a fuel surcharge onto the top of the total. I have seen a few online stores noting over the last few years that the shipping price they are quoting you doesn't include the fuel surcharge, which will bump the total up a bit after you check out.

So what will the end result of these changes be? I guess we'll have to wait and see since no one knows for sure. I think lowering the minimum age would attract more kids but then charging admission will keep out the younger crowd and look-loos. Real buyers probably won't be discouraged since $40 is a relatively small amount compared to travel, motel and food costs.

And since nothing operates in a vacuum, will next year's attendance and sales totals really be a reflection of the changes, or more related to the economy? Some haunts may have been scared by this year's attendance numbers and the general doom and gloom on the news and keep their purchases down in order to save money.

badlander2000
11-03-2009, 11:04 PM
Just to balance things out, You all know that at 17, Nick Francis is the youngest pro haunter ever and I believe Matt Colton and I for example both have jobs and are both going pro, I also know a lot of vendors personally from MHC and Hauntcon and they all say I am very qualified to do business once I have an income. So there should definitely be some kind of test made to see if you are able to make good business decisions at the age of 16 or 17 and operating a SUCCESSFUL and ADVANCED hand-made home haunt should get you added consideration. I dont really know who else out there in this age group is going to Transworld but, I do believe that a well qualified teenager including Scarygoat (sorry I forgot your name) at age 15 should be allowed entrance granted he has a minimum amount of money.

Lupus_Grenwych
11-04-2009, 02:35 AM
Just to balance things out, You all know that at 17, Nick Francis is the youngest pro haunter ever and I believe Matt Colton and I for example both have jobs and are both going pro, I also know a lot of vendors personally from MHC and Hauntcon and they all say I am very qualified to do business once I have an income. So there should definitely be some kind of test made to see if you are able to make good business decisions at the age of 16 or 17 and operating a SUCCESSFUL and ADVANCED hand-made home haunt should get you added consideration. I dont really know who else out there in this age group is going to Transworld but, I do believe that a well qualified teenager including Scarygoat (sorry I forgot your name) at age 15 should be allowed entrance granted he has a minimum amount of money.

15-year-olds (or anyone under 18 or still in high school) that are that serious are few and far between, though. How arbitrary would TW be if they started having some sort of interview process to allows entrance to some minors (based on qualifications, not age) but not others? It would be more trouble than it's worth.

Honestly, I'd just smuggle him (or them) in. If he's that mature, then he shouldn't be a liability (e.g. he doesn't go prancing about like a kid on a field trip=he doesn't stand out like a sore thumb=no one will notice, if you're clever enough).

Terrorknight
11-04-2009, 06:15 AM
I do think your a little off base with the buyer should be helping pay there booth space. Just like it is costing more for the vendors to show there product it is also costing more to run a haunt. It's not shared more by one or the other. Now i'm not saying that $40 is going to break the bank but like you said if the price goes up and up just to get in on top of the $500 to $600 in getting there and staying well soon haunters will stop going and in turn hurt the vendors sales. I think they need to look at the long term effect and really coming out of a wet season maybe this isn't the best time to start charging.

mindtumor
11-04-2009, 07:39 AM
I don't care if Transworld wants to show, whatever its not that much money. But don't say the buyers don't share the cost of Transworld. People spend thousands at that show and I am sure the vendors include what the cost of doing that show is into the price of their products. The vendors pay Transworld to do the show and customers pay the vendors for their products at the show.

If they raise the price to $100.00 they better be getting double the vendors we had last year. Hopefully, they don't outprice themselves for what you get. What does it cost to get into IAAPA? If they start charging close to that price then you better be getting close to what you get for that show. Keep in mind though that we don't make what amusement parks make though before anyone uses that argument.

bhays
11-04-2009, 08:13 AM
Hi, not to sound too much like an old crank ... but I'm not a fan of lowering the age limit to 16. This is a business show, and I'm not excited to hear that there will be non-qualified buyers clogging up the show floor and occupying the vendors' time.

Agreed. What was the logic for lowering the age limit? I understand the admission fee if the booth rental fees are reduced accordingly. I suspect that will not be the case however.

Kelly Anderson
11-04-2009, 02:49 PM
I really dont see that there is going to be some great problem with the age limit being dropped to 16. How many 16 year olds are really going to get in to the show? Last time I checked into TW, you had to prove that you were an actual business; meaning business licence, tax ID... How many 16 year olds have that?

If the venders are going to be concerned about loosing catalogs and other litterature that will surely not result in a sale, they shouldnt give them to some kid anyway. If there is a minor there, they should be with their party. So only give the catalog to the main person in that party. NOT that big a deal.

Nightgore
11-04-2009, 04:37 PM
I don't know how I feel about this! On one hand, I've been the young haunter on the floor, taking every piece of print material I could get... and "clogging up" the show floor; it was FUN!!

But on the other hand, I now own a haunt... I do need time with vendors to write orders, pass money, etc. etc. etc. I see that if TW is going to charge a fee to get in, they should drop the pre-req's. I don't have the time to go a send out copies of my business license, tax I.D. info, etc. etc... it's time consuming and I have other things to worry about. Now, add sending in an admission fee for the damn show.

Is this per person? I ask this because we're bringing a CREW!!! TW better provide or they will hear about it from us. Again, this makes Midwest that much more appealing!!!

-Tyler

ThECRaZyLadY
11-04-2009, 05:28 PM
So if they drop the age limit to 16, are you really thinking that they are going to be supervised by someone? Do you think the only 16 year olds that are going to attend are ones that own a haunt? I am sure there are plenty of haunts out there that hire that age group or have children that are that age group. I can understand some people would want to take there kids that are 16, my son (who is 16) helps with the haunt on many levels and has since he was 9 years old. BUT I don't need him to help BUY anything. That is what I thought this show was about to BUY materials for our haunts. I must be confussed. I don't think that having 2-4 16 year olds that own a haunt is a good reason to open the door for any that want to come.

My 2 pennies
Christina
FEARFEST

UnDeRTaKer313
11-04-2009, 06:27 PM
[QUOTE=Kelly Anderson;79992]I really dont see that there is going to be some great problem with the age limit being dropped to 16. How many 16 year olds are really going to get in to the show? Last time I checked into TW, you had to prove that you were an actual business; meaning business licence, tax ID... How many 16 year olds have that?
=) i do =)lol srry just couldnt resist haha
im super pumped for this year!!!!

Darkangel
11-04-2009, 06:34 PM
I think they should raise the age to 21. If anyone is relying on teens that work for them to make decisions on spending big bucks your crew is not where it should be. Kids that age still do not know the value of money and will have you buying every cool thing they see in the show. It's a business show for professionals not a cool place to gawk at new props and equipment...

Also, Badlander2000 the names you mentioned being the first to go pro is that verified anywhere? Just because you know them and they post here doesn't mean that back in the 80's or 90's before the Fright Forum there wasn't a kid even younger charging admission to a haunted house. Hell, some people say that if you charge a fee to the public to tour your haunt you are a professional, by that account I was a pro haunter at 8 years old....as were many in that age group.

Darkangel

hoffie08
11-04-2009, 07:02 PM
wow. im turning 16 april 28th and the show is march 28th . this stinks because my dad and mom r 80% sure they will back me up and let me go pro next year. this stinks.

maliciousstudios
11-04-2009, 08:00 PM
I agree with Larry.... spreading the costs is a way to bring more vendors, yes they are there to make money BUT Haunts are there to spend money. The easier you make it for vendors to attend the bigger the show gets which allows you to spend more money !!

AND

The cheaper it is for vendors to attend the better deals you may recieve !!

I think its a win / win situation.... You need the show to grow - this will not happen if you thin out the vendors by increasing costs of the show. Spreading the costs across the field is the only way these costs can be reduced.

Lupus_Grenwych
11-04-2009, 10:15 PM
Just got off the phone with TW and they are going to lower the age limit to 16 this year, but are also charging $40 to attend. This includes 1 seminar and admission into the welcome party...
Thoughts?

What happens if someone is not interested in attending a seminar? Will there be some sort of 'ticket' or 'pass' (something tangible) that can be passed off to someone else? Is there a cost for those who would be arriving after the welcoming party and who may not want to see any seminars, or are these two goodies just items tacked on to appease those who are less than enthusiastic about an entrance fee?

DDJR
11-04-2009, 10:48 PM
One of my many hats as well as haunter is the amusement buisness for 10 plus years I have had to pay to attend the big ammusement show iaapa its just part of it and o yeah show year I have got in free of course that was when I called on that long time vendor that I drop and averange of. 10 to 20 grand with just about every season that gives me free pass that they get with there both rental what about all those guys who come to show just to get ideas hell the networking that could be done at a show is probably worth a few bucks HA HA course that's just my opoinion I know I'm still new to this whole game.

shawnc
11-04-2009, 11:15 PM
I'm not getting it. Are people confused about the two new policies?

There won't be roving bands of teenagers polluting the place, because along with the lowering of the age limit they are instituting an admission fee for the first time. Very few teenagers are going to pay $40 to attend.

The Doctor
11-05-2009, 08:41 AM
I just don't understand all the animosity that vendors have towards haunt crews. I mean its like if I don't have the check book I should not be able to walk through, look, ask questions. At Graystone the people on the crew have input, we make suggestions, give informations and implement the installation, repair, maintenance and upkeep on all the things purchased. I think if a haunt is qualified it should be allowed to bring its crew, its team that makes all of the pretty toys work, that build sets, or detail or does makeup. At Graystone input and teamwork is valued and appreciated, sure the checkbook speaks last and loudest but on more than one occasion it has been nudged in a certain direction.

I am not saying that the price is not there to weed out some looky lookers but get the price too high and the guy who does make up and is the one who might be making the decision to purchase new air brush guns or make up doesn't get to come oops sorry a vendor missed on a chance to swap him from passche or iwata. Maybe the guy in charge of lighting doesn't get to come oops sorry he will stay with what he has been using, your new product will not get a chance to get to the guy who actually has the knowledge and understanding to tell his owner why it is the way to go. Oh sorry they guy in charge of costumes and theme didn't get to see the new line of costumes that would be perfect for the new addition. Just because someone else comes up and writes the check or places the order does not mean that they guy you spent 30 minutes with was not the reason that order got placed.

Qualify the haunt, charge a nominal fee, and remember that alot of that crew may seem like they have no input, but you might just be surprised at the meetings and discussions that happen when you are not looking. Anyway I hope the vendors have a great Transworld, make tons of money and provide the great innovative products we come to expect.

Take care and see you all at transworld, I'll be the one at the bar making sure that we have all the latest information on booze, hey its an important job and I take it seriously...seriously. Oh and to the 13th Hour crew the doc never forgets a gesture of kindness look me up at transworld. Can't wait!!!

TheCareTaker
11-05-2009, 09:05 AM
i think it is all valid to the individual for me i am glad they moved the age to 16 as my 17 year old doese everything with me he motivates me and gives me his perspective on things the cost is worth it but do agree, i don't have to share the vendor cost i would rather jsut hear it is 40 bucks and well worth th e money to attend. it is worth more and would pay more. I look forward to attending to see all the peps and props. I know you dont want your hard earned moeny going to the hands of kids but you know my son is the one i always have to go to for that second copy of a catalog when i can't find mine.LOL the little bastard holds on to everything i mtry my best but with so much and so little space it just gets lost but they are his tereasures. yes i know you don't want to hear that but alot of you have benefited from his saving habits that would not have if he would not have had a second copy and i also religously give my c opies to others wanting something from them. becuase my memory is like a ghost story never know when it will materealize and or when it wont. lo thanks for being good sports and to solve the lost catalogs i now jsut scan them in before i even mess with them and electronicaly file them in my of all places haunt suplies folder.LOL have a great one all i know i am a special ed student licking the windows on the back of the yellow bus; just make sure to wave as you drive buy.

shawnc
11-05-2009, 02:20 PM
Some good points from The Doctor and The Caretaker.

Maybe Transworld should do a package/discount deal if you are bringing multiple people: first at full price and everyone else at $10/$20 or whatever, or five or more get in for $20 each. Like I said earlier I don't think the $40 is going to be the difference between going and not going for most, but everyone gives quantity discounts. That's just the way business works.

It's also true about buyers getting input from staff. How many of us have bought/built/set up a scare that we thought was going to be great but it just didn't work? And sometimes the owner is so focused on the business aspects that he or she needs some advise on the artistic/scary side of things from those who are out in the haunt all night every night.

Two heads (or three or four) are better than one.

ThECRaZyLadY
11-05-2009, 09:00 PM
shawnc : I'm not getting it. Are people confused about the two new policies?
There won't be roving bands of teenagers polluting the place, because along with the lowering of the age limit they are instituting an admission fee for the first time. Very few teenagers are going to pay $40 to attend.



I don't think anyone is confused about WHAT the new policies are but WHY they are implementing them. Also about paying $40...how many teenagers attend haunted houses in a season, pay for a ticket..buy a hoodie(even when you suckLOL)..get some food..go thru again? I am not saying that there will be hundreds but why are they there at all?
Christina
FEARFEST

xxxdirk
11-05-2009, 10:50 PM
Why? Cause they know that the TW show is THE place to go and buy stuff and most haunters will go to this convention. 1000 people go at $40 a pop is 40K in their pockets for doing the exact same thing they have done for free all these years.

The Doctor
11-06-2009, 07:56 AM
Will they still qualify the attendees? If not I think we will see a larger influx of people who just want to look and not buy. I understand vendors want only to deal with the buyers, they are there to do business not entertain, but Transworld has always had an element of entertainment attached to it, and I believe everyone or almost everyone expects some level of fun and entertainment.

I kind of agree to dirk her that the 40 seems more of a way to offset costs, now don't' get me wrong it may be necessary as the shows split and now they do 2 shows with split vendors so more overhead less profit, and lets not kid ourselves no one is out here just for fun, everyone has to make a profit for this to be sustainable.

I can stomach the 40 I would just like them to be a bit more honest don't sell me the well were weeding out the people who do not buy and blah blah blah. It is to offset their costs which is not a bad thing. Times are hard they have had a huge change in the way things have been done with logistics, costs, venues, and such. Haunters are a smaller group vendor wise than the costume and rental businesses and as such the burden is more concentrated.

They are charging 40 dollars, offering a few perks to boot the upset stomach we all feel when we have to pay for something we have been getting for free. They put on a good show in St Louis, with good vendor support and hopefully good buyer turnout and participation. I say its worth the 40 to offset costs with putting on this show, hopefully it will translate into a better show that everyone will enjoy and come away having accomplished the goals they set for attendance. In the end, vendors have to see profits, Transworld has to see profits, and haunts have to see value. As long as those 3 things are accomplished I believe Transworld will continue to grow, lose any one of those and it is bound to fail.

Well once again I have rattled on I apologize look forward to seeking you all at Transworld and remember I like bourbon if you see me out. Take care my twisted friends the doctor has to return to reality and try and pay for his hobbies LOL.

Grimley
11-06-2009, 09:33 AM
The amount they are charging is really not enough. If they raise it to say $100-$150 I think that it would weed out non qualified buyers. What is the point of allowing 16 year old kids in when they don't have tax ID #s and can't make a legally binding contract.

I have a feeling next year this will all be a mute point as the they will be forced to combine the shows back together. I know Larry does not want to hear this but have you seen the website for the Chicago show? There are half a page of vendors. The rubies show has pages of vendors.

So let they charge the $40 this year but I would expect them to combine and charge a higher price next year when they merge.