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wickedfarmer
04-17-2010, 08:48 AM
Found out others like me shudder at military zombies. I think it would do us good as industry to have them quietly disapear.

wickedfarmer
04-17-2010, 09:03 AM
I have never said anything at trade shows; but to me this is a area I think we should stay away from. A few years ago a new haunt in my area even entered into small town Memorial Day parade with a zombie in bloddied tattered camo & genuine uniform pieces. Did the zombie leg drag routine & all. VFW had no idea this was in parade behind them...way behind usual fire trucks, bands and so on. I was at beginning of parade route and had them clean up routine a little. Then I walked sidewalk ahead of them diffusing situation. A couple of veterans were ready to literally kill. One in wheel chair was going to at least do great bodily harm. Quick talking averted the situation from becoming a scene...or from bad to worse. Needless to say when VFW found out they were livid.

FEAR ASYLUM
04-17-2010, 10:45 AM
I strongly disagree and i will tell you why , we and I as Americans have fought for the right to speak our minds through our artistic talents , rather it be in creature costuming, airbrushing , haunted houses, parades ,or theatrical it is not wrong to have zombie s as a part of your attraction nor is it wrong to have military zombies i fully support every artist out there in the making of a military zombies i am a US MARINE and see no harm in it whatsoever its all theater and make believe and its our freedom of expression , with that said i will only say that our industry is like any other except we scare people for fun and their will always be controversy in any type of amusements rather it be theme parks social events theater film or business our intentions are not to disrespect anyone or cause turmoil but to entertain the way that we want to because we live in a free country that we have fought for tirelessly and to that i commend everyone of my brothers and sisters both in our military and in our industry and ask that we all respect the rights of another when it comes to this thread thank you

wickedfarmer
04-17-2010, 12:17 PM
Thank you Fearasylum for starting this out; how do I say ;"respectable" I knew there would be both views. I can guarantee you if I had not walked along sidewalk of parade this thread would have been on here two years ago after national news would have covered it. "Zombie in Memorial Day Parade removed by vets" When I say I difused the situation...that is putting it mildly. I know stuff my haunt does will offend many of general public..can't be helped. And I agree that you and other vets made this country able to do zombies as artist sees fit, and that we can have cvil discussions about what ever we feel like; not what gov. says we can and can't. There are a couple groups I go out of my way not to offend though; and I do not mean race's.

Kelly Anderson
04-17-2010, 01:27 PM
I agree with Fear Asylum. And by the way THANK YOU for all you do in the Marines and for our country.

I dont see a problem with using military zombies any more than I would see a problem using and "OLD GRANNY". The problem is how and what you use to market your haunt. If a town had a freak problem of people hanging themselves, I wouldn't walk down the street in a parade having my actors wearing a rope around their neck.

Just like in the case your talking about, think of how many seniors citizens, many of which are possibly vetrans are sitting along side the road watching this.

The seniors problably aren't going through your haunt. And the patrons that do go through your haunt probably wont be affended by using military zombies. That is unless your putting on a haunt at a military base.

I guess the thing to remember is who your audience is and choose your marketing stratagy wisely.

graystone
04-17-2010, 01:53 PM
I think it's an area we should not tread. Guys coming out of the service have enough to deal with from depression, no job, family problems, no insurance, nightmares of seeing their friends blown to bits. Most things in the haunt industry is made up on fiction but this is a real life nightmare for our troops and their families. I say back away there is so much we can create and express in this industry whats wrong with at least holding off till our troops get home out of respect for them anyway. I would not want to see a guy break down because he too has seen his friends laying in a million pieces. I would not even find it funny for a solider to walk through my haunt thinking hes going out for a night of fun only to see a scene of a bunch of dead guys in military clothing to bring some flashback of something bad that he or she has seen happen. I call it respect it's respect for the one's that's giving up their life for our freedom and it's respect for the famalies that's lost loved ones. Shane and that's my opinion! Shane this time.

Jim Warfield
04-17-2010, 02:52 PM
There seem to be a great many people who only tolerate Halloween as placed securely where they think it belongs, at the end of October.
There are also sometimes people or groups participating in a parade that don't like anyone or anything else to be in the parade to possibly detract from them, their message or cause.
Parades are supposed to be a fun celebration of expression, I always thought, of course this might run contrary to a themed parade in which case care should be exercised so as not to upset or offend a large number of people.
All parades are really not for all and everybody.

wickedfarmer
04-17-2010, 04:15 PM
Jim;

You hit a point I said to guys while in middle of street. For any other area parade like town jubilees, firemans field days, melon fest parade, etc. they may have been fine. But a zombie in uniform doing dead leg drag in Memorial Day parade crossed the line. By the way there that little town that blink and you miss it; had one of it's sons come home from Iraq in a casket the previous year.

wickedfarmer
04-17-2010, 04:35 PM
Just in case this were to come out; which I severely doubt on here. I want to state it up front. The new haunt unknown to me at time until meeting at beginning of parade was a former actor of mine who was opening a new haunt 3 miles from me that fall. Not hiding any thing or trying to bash them.

Kelly Anderson
04-17-2010, 04:45 PM
Jim;

You hit a point I said to guys while in middle of street. For any other area parade like town jubilees, firemans field days, melon fest parade, etc. they may have been fine. But a zombie in uniform doing dead leg drag in Memorial Day parade crossed the line. By the way there that little town that blink and you miss it; had one of it's sons come home from Iraq in a casket the previous year.

Theres not very many rules when it comes to how you conduct your haunt. Its almost like "ANYTHING GOES", to a certain degree. A haunter can set up nearly any kind of gory scene and most the time, the patrons will think its great. Although one has to realize that just because they can set up anything, doesnt mean they should.

Several years ago, a fellow haunter wanted to do a "killer Santa". Our board of directors shot that idea down so fast and I dont blame them. Our haunt is in representation on the Boys & Girls club so it definately seams like a fair call to not allow that. Grantid thats a little different than a zombie soldier. But the principle is the same.

If someone has that much disrespect to do what you said they did in a parade given those circumstances....That ticks me off bigtime. A prime example of makeing all haunts look bad. Especially in a small town where everybody knows everything going on. COMON SENSE!! Definately saddens me to hear that kind of disrespect.

wickedfarmer
04-17-2010, 05:06 PM
I wil cut them a little slack. The town where parade was -was a few towns away or about 15 miles away. I doubt zombie knew situation of parade town losing a recent graduate. Also this hit paper asking question "do zombies or politicians belong in Memorial Day parade . Many people saw nothing wrong with this in comments responding to papers online column. Some were very upset.

FEAR ASYLUM
04-17-2010, 06:46 PM
I will say this and then bow act with my diginty ,they do not belong in a memorial day parade at. All but as for haunted houses and theater give me a break although I am no longer in the military. Iam still a Marine and all ways will. Be . Larry I guess you should get rid of all your military garb and do away with your haunts now just because Shane. Says so give me a break I mean really freedom of expression

graystone
04-17-2010, 07:00 PM
FEAR! LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN THIS IS MY OPINION! If your all for freedom of expression then I will say this Its my God Given Freedom To "Express" The Fact That In MY Opinion they don't have anything to do with a haunted house. Now don't try to change my opinion because its going to turn into a long battle over this issue. You say its nothing wrong with it. I on the other hand say its not appropriate so don't get in a pissing match with me just because I disagree with you and for the record I was born into a Military family and I was born right at Fort Bragg North Carolina. Shane and its I have many Veterans in my family! Shane this time.

Kelly Anderson
04-17-2010, 08:32 PM
VALID POINTS no matter what side of this we're on. But when it all boils down to it, use common sense and give respect where it is do.....PERIOD.

dawn408
04-17-2010, 09:09 PM
I think a military themed haunt is fine. People will be aware of the theme before they buy a ticket and can choose if its something they want to see before they even arrive. If I had a family member that was killed in the woods I would know beforehand that a haunted woods attraction is something I wouldn't want to go see. No reason to be offended. I just wouldn't go.

A soldier zombie at a Memorial Day parade is just asking for trouble. You know vetrans will be there and you are going to be right in their face. The vetrans are going to be offended and if they are offended you know their family will be offended right along with them. I don't see how this type of publicity could possibly give you a boost in ticket sales. The only reason to participate in public promotions to increase ticket sales. Why piss off a bunch of people that could have been your customers? Just from a stricly business perspective this is a terrible idea.

From a moral perspective this is just too over the top. There is a time and place for everything and this is just a bad idea all around. Would you have a satan character attend a religious event? Would you have a mentally handicapped character at a special olympics parade? Of course you wouldn't. I don't see how this situation is any different.

Karl Fields
04-17-2010, 10:19 PM
With you on this one Fear, Memorial Parade is a stuid idea. But as haunt scene - sure. I don't cause it wouldn't fit our theme, not because it might be too offensive. Heck, how many people might find offense at dead bodies or mad butcher/doctor scenes and mutilated animals (props)?

I do draw the line at religion symbolism in the haunt, but that's just me and my area. More power to those that want and do that type of thing.

Wasn't there a haunt in the DC area in that had a facade with a plane crashed into the side of the building right after 9/11?

If you think a scene may keep customers away you may want to rethink the idea, but otherwise what ever floats your boat.
Semper Fi

Badger
04-17-2010, 10:22 PM
When I worked with the "Ghost Ship" aboard the USS North Carolina last year, I had designed a great haunt backstory with a military theme, including zombie sailors and all. The captain then told me that under NO circumstances were there to be anyone in any military uniforms or costumes that could be mistaken for uniforms. He wanted to avoid any problems with veterans groups and families of those who died on board the ship. He then went to the media and explained what the ship was doing and how all money raised from the haunt would be used to keep the memorial going in this tough economy. Basically he laid it out as a large seasonal fundraiser.

We developed a new story, changed the characters and had a very successful haunt with NO 'official' complaints from military groups.

I can see both sides to this issue and am torn between both. I don't have a personal problem with it, but I can see people taking it wrong and raising enough of a fuss that things have to be changed or shut down. It's a very fine line that I will have to deal with again this year as word of mouth spreads about the haunt.

Allen H
04-17-2010, 11:08 PM
I am anti military for my haunts. Other haunts can do what they please, ideally each haunt would reflect the vision of its owner/creator, their vision may include military zombies, mine does not.
In my show I do not want guests to see someone who died in a way that their friends or family might have died. So I have no suicides, no serial killers, no military ya da ya da ya da. If you see a dead human in my show, you will always see that a monster or paranormal reason killed them. I also mainly do monsters and creatures as opposed to people killing people. That is a bit extreme but its what I like, so its what I do in my show, The trail of terror.
I also realize that when I do shows for others I need to grab a bigger audience so when I design themes and characters for SCREAMS haunt park I do use crazy people and murderers and such. Part of my trails identity is my personality and concepts being reflected in it. For the park I need each show to have a different personality so guests will identify with the one that fits the best with their personality. Would I ever do military zombies for a SCREAMS show.....most likely not. Unless it was civil war or medieval military I think the statute of limitations is up on those.
I do not think we as an industry need to try to curtail the personalities of haunts based upon public opinion.
Allen H

voodoo willy
04-18-2010, 12:43 AM
I am also a former Devil Dog (US MARINE) I personally have had friends die in this senseless war but thats another topic all together. I know I served as a since of duty to my country and part of that duty was to preserve the rights of Americans and one of those rights is freedom of speech.

I also believe in respect. No way in hell would I have done that at a Memorial Day parade!!! Out of respect for the fallen, friends of the fallen and families of the fallen. It just doesn't belong in that setting. Now in a haunt setting....I wouldn't be that offended. I personally wouldn't do it but I wouldn't boycott a place for doing it. I was at Universal Studios this pass year for HHN and they had a scare zone of zombie soldiers. I was kind of surprised that they did that. I guess since it was German soldiers they thought it was okay.

Bottom line is yes everybody has the right of freedom of speech but a little bit of common since and respect for others goes a long way. Especially in this sittuation...a parade for the people you have served and died to give you that right.

Just my 1 1/2 cents.

Ronnie

FEAR ASYLUM
04-18-2010, 02:02 AM
Hoo rah. Kill

shawnc
04-18-2010, 05:54 AM
wickedfarmer,

I think you were wrong to try diffusing the situation. You're fighting evolution - survival of the fittest. And some people just deserve a good ass-kicking.

StackerSteve
04-18-2010, 10:10 AM
Being a mask mmaker in Gettysburg I wanted to make Civil War Zombie masks. I was told too that it would be tasteless and should avoid it. I would think that would interest someone out there. No?
Has it been long enough?

I totally understand the debate and would not wear something like that or even mention that I have it during an event honoring the people who served in our armed forces.

annarchy
04-19-2010, 08:30 PM
The WHOLE industry needs to take a look at itself....it's going down the wrong path!!

Jim Warfield
04-21-2010, 11:35 PM
Would that "Path" happen to be socio?
This is an expression of various "paths", if you have found the one that you are personally comfortable with and it works, and works for you..there you are.
Very difficult to ague with $ucce$$, especially if it pays the bills.
I am not saying money is the be all and end all, look at the first part, "personally comfortable with". This is where it has to start.
If someone is comfortable copying everything someone else has already done, aiming for that elusive target called success, well then maybe that works?
Most of us have our own vision don't we?

graystone
04-22-2010, 07:04 AM
Someone needs to do a poll on this but it seems that most rather stay away for the moment anyway! Shane and its you know my thoughts! Shane this time.

wickedfarmer
04-23-2010, 06:57 AM
I did a facebook poll of those avg. people outside of industry. Message I got was what I expected. People do not like the idea of them...with a passion. Active military seem to dislike very much...but kicker is it seems they would not say anything just ignore it. Seems to be much more of a how do I call it....a reserved just leave those they despise alone type attitude. Korea War vets...they are ready to kick ass. One comment was put firemen zombies in haunts and see how many pass fire codes.

Darkangel
04-23-2010, 07:21 AM
I believe the plane crashing into the building in the DC area was from Mark Cline's Enchanted Castle Studios if I'm not mistaken, which is in Natural Bridge VA actually.


Regarding military zombies, it seems this topic is blown out of proportion I mean when was the last time you really saw a haunt with them? Maybe a handful out of thousands, it's not like every haunt does this. I agree though it's like aliens or even steam punk, it really doesn't belong in a haunt that much anyway...

DA

Allen H
04-23-2010, 09:38 AM
from Mike Goff
"Every thing that we do is in bad taste."
I just want to say that this is not true, I work very hard to not be in bad taste. I attempt to deal with monsters as opposed to people. Im not offended by your comment, I just wanted to clarify it since it is an absolute statement and there are exceptions to everything. I think very few haunters are "in bad taste" on purpose. If I think something is in bad taste then I do not do it or allow it. I am sure that many others monitor their shows as vigorously.
Allen H

Mike Goff
04-23-2010, 12:26 PM
I always like your take on things Allen, it gets me thinking. I don't think that we differ too much on this, I just took a short cut in explaining my postition.
I believe that no matter what kind of standards we adhere to, there will always be someone offended by something in a haunt. In our particular neck of the woods, we don't do anything that reflects on religion or the occult. We do this for personal reasons and because it would get the locals in an uproar. We all have our lines that we won't cross, or at least most of us do.

There are however many things that some people would view as "in bad taste" such as our shake n bake, or our room full of body bags, most people would say that our over flowing toilet that sprays water in your face is in bad taste. Our skinned animal heads make alot of people gag just a little bit, and say "that's gross!"
I think that all of these things are cool, and I have them in my haunt because I like them, and yes I think they are in bad taste, they are supposed to be.

I guess that, a better way to say it would be, that something bloody, butchered, and covered in feces is okay in a haunted house, but in bad taste when it leaves the premises. Every time we do a parade, I ask myself if our presentation is suitable for the young kids that will be watching us go by.

I don't like to speak of things in absolutes, and if I have, I will be more careful. I will stand shoulder to shoulder with you, to defend haunted attractions as good clean fun. It is however, difficult to imagine that, in our line of work, it is possible to meet everyones standards of good taste.

Allen H
04-23-2010, 01:30 PM
Mike, you are absolutely right and thats well said.
"covered in feces is okay in a haunted house," LOL thats never OK. (shudder, to much time working at gatorland to think feces is ever OK)
Id love to see your show someday it sounds like alot of fun.
Allen H

Karl Fields
04-23-2010, 02:31 PM
BTW Wicked, I call BS on your 'poll'. You really want us to believe people identify themselves as active duty, former military, on your Facebook poll? And Korean War vets - wouldn't they be like 75+ years old by now?

My own data shows only three responders to this thread that are ex military, all oddly enough Marines, and all saying your idea is full of it.

Just stiring the pot,
Karl



I did a facebook poll of those avg. people outside of industry. Message I got was what I expected. People do not like the idea of them...with a passion. Active military seem to dislike very much...but kicker is it seems they would not say anything just ignore it. Seems to be much more of a how do I call it....a reserved just leave those they despise alone type attitude. Korea War vets...they are ready to kick ass. One comment was put firemen zombies in haunts and see how many pass fire codes.

soultrkr
04-23-2010, 03:01 PM
Interesting I really think this would be decided more by simple Economics. If they produce them and they don't sell they will not produce anymore and stop selling them. If the produce them and they sell they will continue to sell them and this means there is a market somewhere that is not offended.

When your arguing taste you are entering a very grey area mostly due to the fact we do not all think the same.

Due to this I think if it sells it sells if it does not then it does not. let the market decide the fate of props like this and haunts that use it. In the end regardless of what we think on a personal level the consumer will be the ultimate judge of taste.

If you are offended good because this is America and you have the right to be offended, Vice versa the person making the product has the right to offend you that is both the blessing and the curse of free speech.


"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
Voltaire

:-)

shawnc
04-23-2010, 03:48 PM
The reason I wouldn't do it is for fear of offending the families of servicemen. There are still hundreds of thousands in the war zones right now who they worry about every minute of the day. And in my tiny county of less than 135,000 there have been six young men killed in Iraq. I would declare bankruptcy and throw everything in the trash before I would do anything that might hurt any one of those six families.

unihaunter
04-23-2010, 04:10 PM
I will fight for your right to offend........free speech is what our industry runs on.Something offends everybody won't be long our fake blood will have to be safety orange.....But all things have a place and a time anything can be done in good taste.Legends of the Fog have a fireman zombie in one of there videos walking in the parade not offending at all he's kinda funny.

Jim Warfield
04-23-2010, 05:55 PM
Offend or bore someone?
Boring haunts aren't any fun either(I am told) I once described my place as a version of Mad Magazine, sort of offensive but moral, teaching by bad example. This might be true for most haunts..sort of.

Mike Goff
04-24-2010, 12:01 PM
something about this thread has been eating away at me, and I think that I may have put my finger on it.
It sucks because I feel like the side that is against military zombies, have thier hearts in the right place, they are looking out for the troops, and in a way, sticking up for them. That is way better than what Viet Nam vets experienced, and all vets should be grateful for the people that got our backs.
I think that there are alot of misconceptions that should be cleared up. I don't know anyone who joined the military, for this larger than life patriotism. Most who enlist in a combat occupation, joined for a sense of adventure, payback for 9-11 and alot do it, for the "get it on" factor. Regardless of thier reason for joining, once they have been in a while, and had all of thier individuallity, and "freedom" stripped from them, they understand, like never before how precious freedom really is. They mature to the intent of our founding fathers.
Sure there are things that offend vets, but vets are not fragile, and I would like to think that they would fight to the death to defend someones right to say something stupid. Lets hope that is true, because the day that our military and former military, does not understand the intent of our founding fathers we are all in deep feces.
As for rethinking the industry, we are all individuals, we congregate together to exchange ideas, and to pool resources, but no one has the power to tell someone else what they should or should not be doing.
NO ONE SPEAKS FOR THE WHOLE INDUSTRY, and no group of people, no matter how large and connected they may be, can speak for an individual and the way he or she chooses to run thier business.
Sometimes when I read these threads, it is almost like there are people who want the industry to be controlled, if not by legislation, by public opinion, I hope I am wrong about this. It is good to exchange thoughts on these topics, but let's not forget it's all academic.

voodoo willy
04-24-2010, 02:32 PM
Plain and simple people are going to do what they want to do! I personally would not be offended if I saw this at any other place but a Memorial day parade. I just think it is in bad taste. Many of the people at these parades are from later generations who fought in wars that where more gruesome than our generations war. Can you imagine hopping of the boat during the island hopping campaigns like that...Or in the trenches of WWI or in the Jungles of Viet Nam?

I read your first comment Mike and I agree with you up until you started talking about other Marines positions like the pencil pushers and cooks. Without those guys nothing would get done, you wouldn't get your equipment, gear or anything. Belittling them because there not combative is not cool in anyway. I am a former USMC...I was in a combat engineer batalion..not as exciting as a scout sniper but I got to blow shit up every now and then. I didn't choose my field. I joined just to get away didn't care which branch or job. But I didn't disrespect any Marine..may not had use for some..didn't like most officers but I respected them. My grandfather ( a Korean war vet) told me something a long time ago. Make friends with the cooks and supply Sgt.'s...you'll never go hungry and you'll have fresh boots in the winter.

wickedfarmer
04-24-2010, 09:37 PM
Karl;

I did not go into detail that the polling I have done was facebook, local newspaper, relatives (one of the Korean War Vets). Wiithout looking back someone on here said something about polling this isssue..and I responded. This was a lively topic for local newspaper (online blog) after the parade incident. I abreviated without giving you the long boring details. If you are not familiar with facebook; you know who your friends are who respond...they are not total strangers unless you are a gamer. I will concede there are many valid points given by those on other side of fence. Probably reason I am so anti military zombie is the first one I saw was lurching down the street in Memorial Day parade.

I have seen threads on here about "clowns or no clowns" "animatronics or no animatronics" So I threw this out.

Karl Fields
04-24-2010, 09:49 PM
It's all good Wicked. Like I said, just stirring the pot. We all have different ideas on what constitutes a haunt or even how to promote it. Some are bad ideas and some brilliant, but in the end the difference is what makes most haunts unique.



Karl;

I did not go into detail that the polling I have done was facebook, local newspaper, relatives (one of the Korean War Vets). Wiithout looking back someone on here said something about polling this isssue..and I responded. This was a lively topic for local newspaper (online blog) after the parade incident. I abreviated without giving you the long boring details. If you are not familiar with facebook; you know who your friends are who respond...they are not total strangers unless you are a gamer. I will concede there are many valid points given by those on other side of fence. Probably reason I am so anti military zombie is the first one I saw was lurching down the street in Memorial Day parade.

I have seen threads on here about "clowns or no clowns" "animatronics or no animatronics" So I threw this out.

Karl Fields
04-24-2010, 10:05 PM
Damn - another Marine? We ought to start a club....

Without going back and rereading his posts, I took what Mike was saying as something that I used to run into all the time, some H&S guy (nothing wrong that that) telling made up war stories. Only takes a few minutes to determine if the guy is BSing or not. It kind of offends me, as a grunt, to be listening to a guy who has never seen combat, to be trying to talk the talk.

Back in the day, we didn't get to choose our MOS, it was just the luck of the draw who got what job, for better or worse. Maybe it wasn't the sharpest cookie that was an 0311, but we are still proud of being one. Well at least 45 years later it is, to be truthful, it sucked at the time :)





Plain and simple people are going to do what they want to do! I personally would not be offended if I saw this at any other place but a Memorial day parade. I just think it is in bad taste. Many of the people at these parades are from later generations who fought in wars that where more gruesome than our generations war. Can you imagine hopping of the boat during the island hopping campaigns like that...Or in the trenches of WWI or in the Jungles of Viet Nam?

I read your first comment Mike and I agree with you up until you started talking about other Marines positions like the pencil pushers and cooks. Without those guys nothing would get done, you wouldn't get your equipment, gear or anything. Belittling them because there not combative is not cool in anyway. I am a former USMC...I was in a combat engineer batalion..not as exciting as a scout sniper but I got to blow shit up every now and then. I didn't choose my field. I joined just to get away didn't care which branch or job. But I didn't disrespect any Marine..may not had use for some..didn't like most officers but I respected them. My grandfather ( a Korean war vet) told me something a long time ago. Make friends with the cooks and supply Sgt.'s...you'll never go hungry and you'll have fresh boots in the winter.

voodoo willy
04-25-2010, 12:34 AM
Hey Karl...maybe we should start a poll and see how many haunters or inspiring haunters are ex Marines....that would really show how off in the head we are. USHC...United States Haunting Corps...Semper ??? Whats Latin for Haunting:grin:

Darkangel
04-25-2010, 08:42 AM
Asking a Korean war vet seems a bit strange to me anyway, did you honestly think he would understand haunted houses regardless? That's a whole different generation and the vast majority of folks at that age wouldn't "get" what we do anyway former military or not. In fact, it's probably more from that gentleman's generation that we are trying to shed now and prove to the world this is a cutting edge, safe, legit business and enetertainment option.

DA

Jim Warfield
04-25-2010, 09:36 AM
with some 80 yr. old people and some of them are Korean war vets.
"Understanding" is a two way street.
Do they understand us? Do we understand them?
Growing up during the Depression, farming for a living through very lean times, watching the country be forced into WW2, then coming of age to be finding yourself in Korea in some very dire combat circumstances, then to survive....maybe they are more deserving of us taking the time to understand them first? It just seemed you were being kind of "flip" when you said they don't get "it". Maybe I put too much of my own latent, homocidal ,burling anger into reading what you said, maybe I'm going to far... (of course what I just typed is a joke)
I often have to call upon this empathy when someone is too afraid to walk into my house or begin having a problem remaining in the house.
Everyone comes from a different "place" in this life. Calm or fear get handed out sometimes irreguardless of anything to do with age, family or social standing. Something in them doesn't get, that I am not about to inflict harm upon them.
We all may learn much by listening to those who have been there, and basic positive treatment of others goes a long way towards ensuring one's own success.
Alot of us don't "Get" alot of things, that's when you display some compassion and become helpfull.
But then, maybe you already get all of this and I'm just being too preachy?
First born children are often like this, needing to inform, educate and help others, like those young siblings we were put incharge of.....and we can be a ass-pain about it sometimes too, sorry.

wickedfarmer
04-25-2010, 09:54 AM
Look out world! I have sparked a uniting of leather necks that are haunters now ;) Karl; a peek into the twisted grey matter between Wickedfarmers ears. I never served. Only rifles every aimed at me were loaded with blanks. Closest I have ever been to combat was 135th anniversary of Gettysburg where 20,000+ of us were in blue or grey wool. Luck would have it I wore blue first 2 days then grey the third. We drew instruction cards for Pettigrews Charge (Picketts charge) Under orders not to let anyone else know your directions as to how far you went or what you did. Just keep closing on the colors and move forward. Mighty lonely when about 3 of our company of 60 made it the last 50 yards to the line of blue. I never gave a rip about sport teams and stats of players in elementary and on into high school. I would read about Antietam, Bunker Hill, Guadal Canal, and hedge rows of France. As a senior in high school (1984) I cut the editorial cartoon out of newspaper on June 6th. Two guys on Omaha Beach...one says to the other "If they do not remember this 40 years from now I hope I am around to kick some history teachers butt!" I taped this to history teachers black board that day. She came in; saw it glanced at me and nodded; and left it up rest of the day.

There are a lot of former/current military in reenacting units. One of our Civil War pards has twice crash landed with cargo plane into Bagdad. RPG's while in desent onto landing path. Many of us got WWII 101st Airborne later. One event they trucked in REAL 101st vets into the woods in Jan. for Battle of Bulge event. I remember feeling really sheepish marching up to those trucks wearing THEIR uniform. But as we got closer these grey haired old men started cheering like they were 50 years younger for a moment. I think they were tickled that someone actually gave a shit about what they had done years ago. Now with Call of Duty video games too many got into WWII reenacting that do not know/care about history; but just want to shoot someone and I have not been to a WWII event in 5 years. What will stick in my mind about the real vets in those trucks was the reaction of two when I marched by. One jabbed the other with his elbow and pointed at me saying something to the other guy. The other nodded and teered up. Within minutes after cheers of 'give em hell boys" coming from the trucks; the first German machine gun opened on us. Rumor got back to us that night that as soon as some of us fell the trucks went from happy to crying. So am I splitting hairs??? Am I two faced?? I will put on a uniforms that I never earned and reenact history from 1860's and 1940's...but talk against zombies wearing the uniform.

The Memorial Day parade with the zombie was a huge problem for me. For several years I was only haunt in Webberville. Then all of a sudden there was haunt in Webberville that put a zombie in Dansville Memorial Day parade. This was their first ever advertising..they hadn't even built their haunt. So many people assumed it was me. It gave me a black eye that took a long time to distance myself from.

FEAR ASYLUM
04-25-2010, 10:55 AM
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Thank you for listening

wickedfarmer
04-25-2010, 11:11 AM
Sorry you found my blah blah blah so boring Fear. You will see that was for a guy who called me a liar in a friendly way...or questioning if I was making stuff up.

FEAR ASYLUM
04-25-2010, 11:27 AM
Hello Karl can you please clarifiy who you are speaking of and also please remember we are all brothers combat or not. Killer

Karl Fields
04-25-2010, 03:58 PM
I was reponding to, or confirming if you will, what Mike had stated, I think in regards to someone else.

Then I was responding to Wicked, basically calling him on his 'poll'. Stil think it's bull, but doesn't really matter now, does it?

BTW - reenactment ain't the same thing :)

Love and Peace




Hello Karl can you please clarifiy who you are speaking of and also please remember we are all brothers combat or not. Killer

wickedfarmer
04-25-2010, 06:15 PM
Well guys I think this thread has run its course. I kept up with it for several days going back and forth with those who responded. I will not be checking in as often now. Karl i hope you don't think I tried to equate experiences; just showing that someone who hadn't served has had a lot of contact with vets. Calling BS when you think there is....only appropriate thing to do! Am a little surprised Karl still thinks I am BS'ing. Can't wait till I hear all the BS I might be accused of in about 12 years if I stay with crazy idea of selling farm and running for U.S. Senate. My cousin who works for House Appropriations says I am nuts to want to do that. Truth is I don't "want to''..... blah blah blah.

hauntedghost
04-26-2010, 06:34 AM
I say no to the military zombies.. thats just me..

extreme evil
08-01-2010, 03:42 PM
I agree with with you. I spent 23 years in the service of my country which included two tours in Vietnam, and then stayed until Laos and Cambodia ended. Personally, I see nothing wrong with Military Zombies, I think they're kinda cool. Maybe in a parade I can see where that would or could be a bad idea but not in a haunt. I think they make a good addition to a haunt.

Matt Colton
08-01-2010, 04:31 PM
I definatly agree with the anti-military zombie idea for a memorial day parade. That seems like a very shady preformance for a MEMORIAL DAY PARADE. Maybe anyother parade would be somewhat tolerable but the fact of a Vet seeing a bloodied zombie trooper is just a mockery and a reminder of grim situations they dealt with. There are so many other zombies you can do. Now if you are talking about a haunt now thats a different story. That is definatly a cool idea and it would make a very cool theme.

Jim Warfield
08-02-2010, 12:58 AM
Might be seen in the soldier-Zombies. Would this character be sort of saying soldiers are zombie-like? Following orders? No questions asked? No indivdual mind at work?
Kind of a "slap" isn't it.