View Full Version : 13th Hour Magazine
01-26-2011, 07:32 AM
Well I guess getting pissed and emailing people has gotten me some responses. I just wanted to share with you a conversation I just had with Kathy from the publication company. I told her my situation that since 2009 the last magazine I got was the one from the show with Gore Galore on the front. She said there has been atleast 3-4 more since that time.
I highly recommend anyone to email her if you have had a similiar problem. I did in October, of course unfullfilled promise of getting the missing magazines. It's 8:25 am EST and she already called me. I told her many were talking about it on the forum and that we were not going to support companies that don't deliver. She promised I will be getting all my magazines sent out this week. So we shall see.
Here is her email firstname.lastname@example.org. I suggest we all take a stand and stop this from happening again. Maybe if they hear from enough of us, they will know we aren't messing around.
01-26-2011, 08:14 AM
i had a issue with not getting my mags.....had to make several calls to them.....they finally got it taking care of not sure when the next one comes out.....
01-26-2011, 09:25 AM
Like to hear from others about this too. I paid $80.00 cash at the show and have not seen one damn magazine. I have seen one from Haunted Attraction but that's it! I am so gonna talk to these people at the show about this. 13th Hour is more is a big book of ad's but I did think oh well I will add to my collection! Well I got to get one to start it! Shane and it's I will talk to them at the show! Shane
01-26-2011, 11:19 AM
I'll keep it safe. I know good hiding places.
Of course you really don't want it back, we all know that, right?
How boring and slow life would be with no confrontational thinking!
I can't even forget small amounts I have been screwed out of, that will never come back my way.
I once sent out my own magazine to several people. Each was hand written, hand drawn little pictures, all very original..none of them even acknowledged that they got them ....full of good advice too. Like how to get through the crowded overhead tunnel at Transworld= ride through it on a dirt bike! Pull wheelies, knock those slow people out of your way!
I got hand-cramps from writing and drawing them too! Not a "word" was heard.
01-26-2011, 12:46 PM
In my two year subscription I have had to call for every issue. They said they were sending me the clowns issue last week and still nothing. I called again today and they said they would get right on it. I did tell them there were a lot of pissed off people and it's not just one or two. Has anyone who ordered them had them shipped on time?
01-26-2011, 05:41 PM
I suggest that anybody who forked over money and didn't get their subscription please file a complaint with the FTC and the US Postal Inspection Service. Links to both are on the Mail Fraud Wikipedia page.
01-26-2011, 05:53 PM
Trust me I will be talking to them face to face and cameras rolling! I told yall changes were coming. I got Scarefactory to go along with them and 2 others. The day of taking your money and avoiding you are over. I am also tired of the we will make it right excuse! There is no reason for this! Shane and it's Change is here! Shane
01-26-2011, 09:27 PM
Atleast the vendor on here know to stop advertising with them. No one see's there ads. I agree Shane, God help them if I don't get what I was promised.
I think everyone should complain, she was warned this morning. We need to be heard. No more ripping people off. Not even a penny! This goes both ways from vendors to buyers.
01-26-2011, 10:37 PM
I got a subscription from this company at Transworld last March and still have not received my magazines. I had several e-mails with Kathy and a phone calls to the subscription operator and its now December still no magazines. They don’t even answer e-mails any more. Sorry just feed up!!! this was my comment on Haunters Digest.
01-27-2011, 12:17 AM
I looked at the first couple 13th Hour mags and had issues with the content. I was hoping having an outside voice would bring a new prospective. But unfortunately it's a group of people from other publications that are now "assigned" to cover Haunts.
We get upset if you have actors trying to tell you how to run a haunt, now we have people who have no reference to Haunts or Halloween deciding what gets covered!!! I mean come on... do I really need to know how to bake Halloween themed cookies????
The main issue I do have is a lack of information in exchange for images. I know a picture is worth a thousand words, but this is to the extreme! The magazine is nothing but a bunch of pictures...NO information!! And now the publisher is involved with Haunted Attraction and Fright Times. So now we have THREE magazines that are all flash ...no substance!!
HA had an article on the care and repair of latex props. Well actually there was 4 pages of pictures and two columns of text. While they supposedly had an expert, the information sounded like nothing more than the instructions you received with the prop!!
Pictures and images are great but they should augment and further the information not be in lew of the information!!!
Also, have you Haunters gone soft???? In the old days if HA, Fright Times or Hauntworld missed even one issue or forgot to send someone a subscription they were crucified and hung out for ALL Haunters to ridicule until the problem was solved. It seems these people have screwed several of you on a continual basis and you people are taking it!!!
I could understand problems with the old Haunt magazines because they were run by actual haunters so the mags were only a secondary business. 13th Hour is published by a publication company...that IS their business so there should no excuses!!!
$80.00 for a subscription gets you how must usuable information that will help your business??
01-27-2011, 07:45 AM
"Never write anything down!" (Leaves too much usable evidence!) In this case never print any words! (Leaves too much pesky evidence!-- Multiple copies!!!)
"Look what YOU said!"
Many pictures can be open for interputation , like shadow puppets on the wall.
01-27-2011, 12:35 PM
I would like to address a few quick things here speaking on behalf of all the Magazine owners as well as the owner of Fright Times Magazine.
First, I believe it was Rich from Las Vegas who mentioned a few valid criticisms, I think in general it's important and good for people to give feedback good and bad on all the magazines. That is how they continue to grow and get better and better. I thank you for any feedback. I have received lots of feedback on the new Fright Times issues, and I strive to continually improve. That which does not kill me, only makes me grow stronger.
Many times I have read Larry post about how much work it is to create a magazine and people dont' realize just how much stuff goes into it. It is very true, it is a lot of work, and each Magazine owner always wants it to be the best it can be. Why else would we put in all this time and effort?
Each issue, I hope Fright Times improves and I am always open to feedback. I would like to mention a few things however in defense of some of the accusations because I feel very strongly about them.
First, I would like to point out that Fright Times has 2 issues a year (Spring and Fall) each year. I did this for a very specific reason. I wanted to make sure I was going to be able to have enough quality content for each issue, and I also wanted to make sure I was not rushing to get out each issue. It also falls perfectly in line with the Halloween Season (Fall issue) and the Conventions (Spring issue).
The only reason I wanted emphasize this is because Fright Times has never missed an issue, and my goal is to hopefully never miss an issue. I am striving for that and work very hard to accomplish that goal.
In addition, we are least expensive annual magazine subscription in the industry (only $20) as I didn't want cost to be a factor for anyone. Larry has mentioned on many occassions how in videos or print, just 1 article of information that is useful more than pays for the annual subscription, my goal is to try to bring you many articles.
Also, as far as I am aware, there is not a single person who has ever paid for a Fright Times (or been part of the HHA subscription base) that has never received a Fright Times magazine. I have had a very detailed system to track all of that, and have always strived to make sure that each and every person has always received the magazines. Even back issue orders online. Please, if anyone knows of anyone who has not received a paid Fright Times magazine, please let me know. (Editor@FrightTimes.com) Currently, we have mailed out over 3,000 magazines and according to my database I have only 1 person who has not received it yet after all the mailings. Jim Shackelford of Absolutely Halloween (whom I'm trying to find an updated address for because it got returned to me).
As far as substance goes, please always feel free to address those issues directly with each owner, they all have much different styles and formats. For example, since I deal a lot in the corporate world, I've tailored Fright Times to have lots of stories that address such issues. "How to legally terminate an employee", next issue has an article on "The proper use of Incentive programs", these are just some examples of articles that deal with subjects from people who manage Human Resource departments far greater than any budget we have ever seen. Now, there is also some light things as well....but overall there is a strive for a mix of things like How To's, Education, and Business as well as Halloween. Finally, I think it's fair for everyone to speak of and treat the individual magazines on an indivual level. For example, I'm not sure what 13th hour being 'involved' with the other magazines really means. I have consulted with both HA and 13th hour with various questions, and I have even talked to Larry a lot in the past when we were on the IAHA board together. I also still talk to John Denley about issues he had with Fright Times and how to solve them. We are still completely independent. I have a huge respect for Rick Singleton of 13th Hour and he has helped me, and assisted me in learning some of the proper techinques and art of publishing so that Fright Times can stand on it's own. That is what he does for a living and has countless years of experience with it. That is why I put him on the cover of the last Fright Times, he helped me and gave me insight, when, in theory, we are competition to his own magazine. Not many people would do that, and I will not forget his kindness as Fright Times continues to move forward.
No one (but myself and the individual writers) for example have any idea of what stories are in the next issue of Fright Times, and no one sees it until it's ready to print. Also, please remember, I own The Village of Darkness website design and I have a lot of staff that do graphics all year. We do all of our own inhouse graphics and layouts, this is what I've been doing for the Halloween industry for over 10+ years. These are our ideas and thoughts. On a personal level, I have a huge fondness for Dungeons and Dragons growing up (I loved 1st edition AD&D) and I have always geared Fright Times a little more towards that style that I love...the dark, gothic, castle, type of look, which is why I had the 'Unearthed From the Grave' look very much like a 12th Century Castle.
So, sorry for the long post, but I am very passionate about Fright Times, and I just wanted to at least mention these things for those interested. Finally, if you have not signed up for it already, please email me offline (Editor@FrightTimes.com or Rob@TheVillageOfDarkness.com) and I will gladly send you the next issue of Fright Times #17 for free to critique it. I think the next issue will be the best issue yet and I was able to incorporate a lot of changes based on feedback from people like yourself. I want to always continue to do so, though, as you know, it's impossible to please everyone, so I'm just trying to always find a happy medium and produce a professional magazine.
Robert Kocher Hightower
Camelot Computers, Inc
The Village of Darkness
National Haunters Convention
Fright Times Magazine
01-27-2011, 11:37 PM
I think anyone doing a magazine should be doing it for the passion end of it because its a lot of work and basically impossible to make money.
Let me tell you guys out there a few things...
I personally don't subscribe to any of the magazines, but that isn't to say I shouldn't or wouldn't just haven't... in this industry it might just be best to buy them as they are released. All these magazines should just have a store and if one comes out buy it online. We do that but we charge a LOT more if you do it that way but that might be one way to end some of the complaints.
We put out three magazines a year... Winter: because many haunts redo their haunts in the winter, take advanatage of winter sales and get ramped up early like us.
Spring: why? A lot of haunts rely on idea's from vendors to get their shows going again, idea's for new scenes, or simply from learning at the tradeshow inspires something.
Summer: Over 50% of all the buyers are buying in the middle of the summer using credit cards.
We issue magazines for two reasons per above...
1) Because the magazine is paid for by the vendors and they deserve support for helping us send buyers valuable information to help your business. We need to schedule the magazines WHEN the buyers need product or are thinking about next year. Fall is a waste... we are all too busy and or we already bought everything doesn't help the vendor or buyers.
2) Because as already stated... the owners we have three different types out there. a) big haunt, does this year around, no second job, and he is looking for discounts, keeping crews going year arounds starts haunt in winter for next year. b) like most haunts looking for inspiration, looking for idea's, looking for new product, looking for information or a push in the right direction goes to the Haunt show to find all of the above and many haunts will start the work in the spring after the show so this benefits both buyer and vendors. c) Last but not least for all the haunts who find last minute locations, dont' have the funds until the last minute, putting everything together last minute and this is half the industry mind you... putting the magazine out in summer when these guys fire up those credit cards help the buyer and the vendor.
YOU CAN NOT PRINT every month, every other month because our vendors overall don't understand marketing, they don't do marketing, they don't believe in it, think its only about the show, have no idea how to run a business, had a bad year have no money, putting all their money into the show, I mean the list goes on and on... some have too much business you name it and I've heard it.
If you did every month or every other month and now I'm being honest here... on the flip these magazines don't get enough new subscribers between issues for it to be worth an every month or every other month obligation. That is just being honest... but when HW doesn't print for MONTHS on end betwen each magazine you get a ton of new eyeballs.
From Summer issue to Winter... we must pick up 500 new subscribers, we lose some but we pick up a TON of new eyeballs. Between Winter to TW issue not so many however, we pick up a TON of new subscribers at the show and that magazine is exposed to a lot of people. Lastly, Spring to Summer we pick up probably 200 or 300 new eyeballs all looking to open haunts at the last minute...they are looking for info.
WE HELP DRIVE BUSINESS TO VENDORS... its perfect the way it is.
Last but not least... we are able to produce a great product with huge gaps between magazines.
01-27-2011, 11:47 PM
One more thought on all the other magazines...
I think they are all great for what they are... if you buy Fangoria you like reading about Halloween horror movies or whatever, some of these industry magazines we have might not take it as serious as Hauntworld Magazine in terms of the business side almost as an exclusive but all these magazines are different.
Maybe one is trying to appeal more to home haunters, another to enthusiasts and another to both haunts and home haunts and or everything between. Hauntworld focus is STRICTLY on people who own and operate haunted houses. We won't have articles about cooking cookies or strobe lights, or you get the picture. But that is not to say its bad, because there is no magazine on the racks at Walmart like the strong hard line approach we take. On the other hand the biggest selling magazines out there are a lot like say 13th Hour... they are clearly more popular to more people.
My goal is NOT to appeal to every tom dick and harry our goal is to educate and advance the haunted house industry...nothing between.
I have flipped through 13th Hour, Haunted Attraction, and all the rest and they are all nice magazines... just not what I would do but just because I wouldn't do it that way doesn't mean someone doesn't like those better because I'm sure there are tons of people who think ours is the worst.
My motto has always been if you don't like something don't buy it... we aren't changing our focus and won't I would stop first. If the magazine isn't for you dont' buy it... if one of the other magazines is better suited for you grab them or just buy them all. No harm in any of it... it might only help you.
The ONLY thing I would say is dont' believe everything you read, trust the writter, just the source, just because someone writes something in a magazine doesn't make it the right way to do something... in our magazine I try VERY HARD TO MAKE SURE the articles are something you need to know or would want to know and coming from a person I feel KNOWS!
I can't speak for the other magazines.
I do things my way, and they do things their way, and there is nothing wrong with that... that is what makes all of these magazines unique.
Me personally I would like to have them all... maybe at the show this year I'll make a point to pick up some subscriptions.
Mad Wax Sculptor
01-28-2011, 02:47 AM
I didnt subscribe just for this same reason. you would think when they start loosing money they take notice. I have to many other things to throw 80 bucks away on
01-28-2011, 06:22 AM
I subscribe to ha and hauntworld and was looking into getting 13th hour but it seems now I wont be doing that. Fright time thats great you are willing to send out a free mag to people just to check it out I want to get your next one. larry your right I like haunt world because it has things I need to know. My friends look at it and never look twice They dont care about the info in it. BECAUSE they are not haunters. And hauntworld is just for haunters. Good job on the mag and keep up the good work.
01-28-2011, 10:35 AM
As someone who reads and has written for most of the magazines except for 13th Hour, I can tell you that all magazines have a different approach. Fright Times covers pro haunts, home haunts and Halloween. Hauntworld covers pro haunts from a haunter's perspective and so does Haunted Attraction. 13th Hour's main focus seems to be photography. So, Fright Times is the most accessible to the general public since it covers multiple industries and is the cheapest. Hauntworld and Haunted Attraction mostly appeal to the already established haunt or a haunt that is looking for some inspiration and direction. Some magazines have bitten off more than they can chew and this is the reason why a few are unreliable in getting their magazines out to the public. They just didn't realize how hard it would be to produce a quality magazine.
A big reason why a haunt magazine wouldn't be successful if sold in bookstores is because there still hasn't been enough exposure for the haunt industry. Most of America has no clue about the costs involved in starting a haunt, the hardships, the various vendors, the people behind the haunts they visit etc. Name one book or magazine you've picked up at the bookstore lately that covered only haunted attractions. You can't and you never will until already established horror magazines like Rue Morgue, Fangoria or Horror Hound start featuring articles on haunts throughout the year instead of just during the fall season. The industry has evolved, but most of the public has no clue.
01-28-2011, 03:20 PM
Print is dead
01-28-2011, 10:25 PM
Well, just wanted to report I received ONE issue of 13th Hour. It was a clown featured magazine. Guess they aren't sending the other 2 I was certain she promised. Oh well, guess I will save this one to remind me why not to give them another chance. I now recall why I purchased the subscription, the magazine shows bright colors and nicely laid out magazine. Get large ads for their vendors but little content for articles.
Something "pretty" to look at. Good reference for vendors however.
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