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View Full Version : Transworld 2011 The Good, The Bad and The Ugly



Dman
03-12-2011, 10:55 PM
Well, the show is winding down and tomorrow will be the end of our 2011 Halloween Show

I wanted to share some of the highs and lows of the show.....

On the Positive side we had tons of great costumes. Kyle,from Midnight Studios, went all out with some wild full body Lycan costumes, as well as many other cool costumes and animations. *The Boom Stick is everywhere! Some very cheap prices were out there, if you shopped around.
I felt the regular vendors outdid themselves with great new products and were able to keep the prices down (anyone who knows me, knows that I'm very cheap when it comes to spending. I usually do a lot of trading but I was pleased with the prices). For those who were at the show, I think three words come to mind Latex Body Paint.*
Now,unfortunately, for the BAD. *Shame on the company who totally ripped off Kevin, from Gore Galore's, product line. From his Stalker Costumes to *vertabra backed shirts, to just about everything else he carries, these guys should be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves and their thinly disguised ripoffs! *I hope the industry sticks together and boycotts this company. Kevin had some of the *best looking costumes,as well as the only actor/animation at the show. He deserves credit for originality.
And, finally, the Ugly. This year, we stayed at the Mayfair Hotel and had the pleasure of housekeeping stealing my leather custom embroidered $300.00 jacket made by Sunshine Tees. This jacket was a birthday present and very special to me, it bears our unique artwork. We were sure it was stolen the day it went missing. We bitched up a storm until it finally showed up the next day, the housekeeping staff had found it. *The one big problem is we NEVER used housekeeping. We maintained our own room. They came in after I told them IN PERSON that we were all set and signed off that we didn't need them. It was only after we kicked up a fuss that it was "found". Not a pleasant experience, but happy that the jacket is back where it belongs.

I hope everyone has a great show as well as a safe trip home.

Dan Augusto
Owner Tombstone Productions

Jim Warfield
03-13-2011, 12:03 AM
Did you happen to mention to the Hotel that you really needed it back ASAP because your small,pretty pet Coral snake in the special pocket needed feeding?
They are so pretty... as they administer almost instant DEATH!
hahahaah!
You had a happy ending anyway with it.

drfrightner
03-13-2011, 01:36 AM
What company was this... and let me say that they are NOT the only company ripping off others. I saw a couple companies that did a lot of copy cat props and animations.

This happens like every year. This is nothing new. Larry

danglin
03-13-2011, 02:13 AM
Kyle's stuff always looks amazing, but he really outdid himself this year! His Lycans, Vampires and Demons all looked amazing. I literally went back to
his booth at least 25 times today to keep looking at everything. Each time I would notice another cool prop or costume that I had missed. By far, the
best looking stuff at the show!

Dman
03-13-2011, 07:38 AM
Larry,

The company is Dreamscape, if you get a chance today walk around they are very close to your booths. I was confused at first because the costumes looked like a much flimsier version of Kevins normal stalker costumes. I thought Gore Galore was making a cheaper quality line of products that were cheaper to buy. When I was placing an order with Gore Galore I spoke to Kevin and asked if he was offering cheaper line of products. This was Not the case, I won't repeat our conversation unless Kevin is ok with it but I'm sure he would be happy to fill everyone in..

Dan Augusto
Owner Tombstone Productions

Jim Warfield
03-13-2011, 07:59 AM
I was on the phone many years ago talking to a guy in the patending business. He got very excited when I mentioned a Halloween costume design I had just won 1st place with ($300.) He began jabbering about either copyrighting or patenting it's design.....
Maybe he was just blowing smoke?
Is this sort of thing a viable option?
OR would the patent guy and all the lawyers just end up with all the money..again!
???

Dalloween
03-13-2011, 05:48 PM
Just want to point out that the boom stick, that you note as a positive, was also ripped off from Digital Sound and Lighting by other companies who are now outsourcing production of lesser-quality versions.

In regard to Dream Scape... I understand that the brothers who worked at Gore Galore are now working at Dream Scape (don't know, or want to know, the story there... though I'm certain there are two sides to whatever it is)... I will say that we have done business with Dream Scape in the past and though there have been run-of-the-mill problems here and there, they've been good to us. Solid quality product, beautiful custom finishes, etc. When there have been problems with orders they've stayed in communication with us and gone out of their way to make things right.

We've also done business with Gore Galore and think just as highly of their company and product.

I will say, for what it's worth.... as an art student, we were always taught that there is no such thing as a new idea... only innovations on what's existed before. I think it would be crazy to expect that only one company will ever produce and sell large costumes... I think the question would be, has the concept been changed enough or innovated upon to make it contrastingly different or better. I don't know the answer in this specific case, because we weren't looking to purchase large costumes and didn't look at them at either company.

Allen H
03-13-2011, 06:13 PM
Dalloween,
I agree there are very few new things, but in this case all I see is someone churning out an inferior copy of a great product. There arent enough innovations to make them different or stand out, processes seem to be directly ripped off from gore galore and there isint anything that makes them an evolution or a stand apart product, more like a copy of a copy. Even stylistically they are a knock off, I will gladly pay for Gore Galores better quality product from a proven vendor who I have heard no horror stories about, I know several people who are waiting on product from dreamscape that was ordered at last years show.
I make alot of things and I try very hard to make sure that stylistically they are mine even if the concept came from some other source. I also try to upgrade or evolve the designs when possible.
I understand your defense of them, but in this case I dont think there is a defensive leg to stand on. They really should have gone a different direction with their craft. They have talent no doubt, but Id love to see it excercised on their own ideas.
Allen H

spookhaven
03-13-2011, 06:17 PM
And we need to remember that the "artist" hands that make a product/mold will always be their style. You can't just change your style as a person if you move on to another company for whatever reason.

I to stayed true to Gore Galore but don't fault them if they were the "idea" behind previously made products at GG.

chuck weber
03-13-2011, 07:28 PM
was shane dabbs there?

Haunted Farm
03-13-2011, 08:07 PM
scarefactory was there

Dalloween
03-13-2011, 08:08 PM
The intention of my post wasn't to defend Dream Scapes (though after re-reading it, it sounds that way)... it was more a reaction to the original topic applauding the ripping off of the boom stick product in one paragraph and then disparaging the ripping off of the giant costume concept in the next paragraph. It would seem to me that this practice is either acceptable or it is unethical... not both. I probably shouldn't be posting when I'm so tired. :)

Front Yard Fright
03-13-2011, 08:36 PM
I was wondering if Gore Galore had split because the items that Dream Scape had were all extremely similar to the products of Gore Galore. I remember when DS first popped up with their customizable life size props... But now it looks like they are focusing on producing things that have been around for years?

Either way, I hope everyone had a wonderful show and everyone bought/sold a ton!

chuck weber
03-13-2011, 09:44 PM
just wondering.........thank you.

devolino
03-14-2011, 02:39 AM
was shane dabbs there?

yeah, he was. he had the insane shane kick off party! lol :D

zombiphobe
03-14-2011, 06:49 AM
just wondering.........thank you.

Yes 13th Hour was there.

Darkangel
03-14-2011, 07:30 AM
I can see where Gore Galore might be mad, but this is business China does this to everyone they take existing ideas and do it fo cheaper. Kevin's looked way better but they are prices way higher and Dream Scape found a solution for those still wanting big costumes without the high price. I think they are filling a void and it's a good thing. Ex Mortis made their stalk around and you saw peole take that idea as well, it's all part of the game.


DA

Dman
03-14-2011, 03:45 PM
I think their is a major problem here with this Dreamscape Company.

The giant costumes aren't the only ripoff,
Kevin developed the Pet Zombies with death certificate, Dreamscape has Dead Buddies and come with guess what? A death certificate..
They have ripped off the Big o pipe, the zombies heads on plaques, the Bucky guts and there may be more, I looked quickly.

I also noticed that the twin brothers that used to work for Kevin were in Dreamscapes booth, They were wearing Gore Galore shirts, it wasn't bad enough to rape Kevins product, they had to rub it in his face.

Your a strong man Kevin, had this happened to me, the twins wouldn't have been able to walk into the show.

Dan Augusto

zombiphobe
03-14-2011, 04:02 PM
I get the anger and frustration, but this is the nature of business and a free market economy. Why should the haunt industry be any different? For example look at Silly Bands or what ever those things are called. There are a million companies making them now.

The point is, there will always be copy cats and cheaper knock offs. If someone else can figure out how to do the same thing for cheaper than they are going to and that is that. What Kevin seems to have going for him is a brand loyalty that is hard to crack.

Think about it this way, if you are like me (and probably everyone else) when you go to the grocery store, you will buy generics for certain products, but for some you have to have the name brand and you are willing to pay more for it. But the fact that there are substitutes that compete puts pricing pressure on the market and allows you to perhaps get the higher quality product cheaper. It is economics and free markets working at its best. Whether the price difference is worth the premium brand is up to each individual buyer.

Now if there is some kind of patent infringing or trademark violation then that is another story, but it doesn't seem that is the case and if it is, please enlighten me.

Slain
03-14-2011, 04:02 PM
Although it appeared to be some bad blood with duplications and such amongst many vendors. The blond girl working the DreamScape booth was hot as a firecracker... Man I forgot the subject..
I hate it for Kevin with Gore Galore but like Stan with the boom sticks, if you don't trademark and or patent the design your bound to have someone come out with cheaper versions..

spong8
03-14-2011, 04:23 PM
I am not in anyway in the loop with haunt industry things and the drama behind it. I happily observe the fun stuff from outside it. Business copying other business is nothing new. Look at fast food industries, Starbucks comes up with the idea to start selling oatmeals, soon McDonalds begins selling oatmeals as well. I do feel it is unethical practice to knock off other's creations, but also feel if the knock offs are better then the originals then that is a good thing!

From only what I've read here in this thread, if the knock offs are cheaper then the original, the original has to play up the other pros of their product. Even step up their game and separate themselves from the dollar store toys.

But that is just opinion I am sure there are plenty of other people who are more "in" then I.

RJ Productions
03-15-2011, 12:49 PM
Rip-offs, Knock-offs, duplication.....seems we have it EVERY year!! Our job is to stiff through and make decisions accordingly.

First off you can't really claim you are knocked or ripped off if you didn't actually CREATE or invent the product. Case in point is the Boom Stick debacle. I was not at TW last year, only heard about the product. This year I see several vendors with them. I looked and they were identical products. I questioned. The product was not "invented" by Digital Sound, merely FOUND. They purchased it and brought it to the show. Other vendors simply found the same manufacturer and purchased it themselves. NOT a knock-off or inferior product, it was the SAME product; they just sold it at a more reasonable price.

Knocking off a product is to copy the prop and the style in which it is presented. How many props out there are a basic "pop up"?? Is anyone who makes a prop that pops up knocking off their prop? Not if you take the initial concept and build your own version of it. Dressing or themeing it to look like the original is another matter.

Also you have to look at the original concept. Is it just a variation of existing concept or is it a new original concept?? Vacuform panels have been out there before and in other industries. There are several vendors handling panels. You just need to see which style, quality and price you prefer.

A true knock-off is usually a blatant copy of the original. It doesn't even bother to add a new twist or angle and is usually a cheaper version. Studio-Tek has had the Cage Maze wall system for a couple years. It is a concept that in reality any haunter could try and duplicate themselves. Problem is it is a LOT of work and it must be precise or as a system it fails. This year Haunted Enterprises brought in a cage maze. It this case it IS a knock-off. It was not a variation (say he had done a different style or pattern of a panel). It was an exact style copy, even the way it was promoted). And the product was cheaper and totally inferior. Attaching hardware was just a self tapping screw so you have no adjustment and real problems setting up year after year. Welds broke already and people got hurt at the show!! You DO get what you pay for!! That is the price of buying a knock off!!

The ONLY way we as an industry can put an end to this practice is to NOT support it!! Look carefully at any duplicated or non-original product. Look for the reason in the price difference. Buy the quality, not the rip off. If the knock-off doesn't sell it will go away! IF you keep supporting it, it continues. And the MAJOR problem with supporting the rip-offs and knock-offs is that it impedes the true creators and innovators from coming up with new and needed ideas. They will develop the attitude of "why bother...I'm just going to get ripped off!" And THAT is the real problem. Without this innovation we suffer and stagnate as an industry.

So all you innovators and originators keep the faith. Your ideas are welcomed and appreciated. All you "Knock-off Kings" out here...go get an original idea!!! Then see how you feel when someone knocks YOU off!!!

Slain
03-15-2011, 01:01 PM
Rip-offs, Knock-offs, duplication.....seems we have it EVERY year!! Our job is to stiff through and make decisions accordingly.

First off you can't really claim you are knocked or ripped off if you didn't actually CREATE or invent the product. Case in point is the Boom Stick debacle. I was not at TW last year, only heard about the product. This year I see several vendors with them. I looked and they were identical products. I questioned. The product was not "invented" by Digital Sound, merely FOUND. They purchased it and brought it to the show. Other vendors simply found the same manufacturer and purchased it themselves. NOT a knock-off or inferior product, it was the SAME product; they just sold it at a more reasonable price.

Knocking off a product is to copy the prop and the style in which it is presented. How many props out there are a basic "pop up"?? Is anyone who makes a prop that pops up knocking off their prop? Not if you take the initial concept and build your own version of it. Dressing or themeing it to look like the original is another matter.

Also you have to look at the original concept. Is it just a variation of existing concept or is it a new original concept?? Vacuform panels have been out there before and in other industries. There are several vendors handling panels. You just need to see which style, quality and price you prefer.

A true knock-off is usually a blatant copy of the original. It doesn't even bother to add a new twist or angle and is usually a cheaper version. Studio-Tek has had the Cage Maze wall system for a couple years. It is a concept that in reality any haunter could try and duplicate themselves. Problem is it is a LOT of work and it must be precise or as a system it fails. This year Haunted Enterprises brought in a cage maze. It this case it IS a knock-off. It was not a variation (say he had done a different style or pattern of a panel). It was an exact style copy, even the way it was promoted). And the product was cheaper and totally inferior. Attaching hardware was just a self tapping screw so you have no adjustment and real problems setting up year after year. Welds broke already and people got hurt at the show!! You DO get what you pay for!! That is the price of buying a knock off!!

The ONLY way we as an industry can put an end to this practice is to NOT support it!! Look carefully at any duplicated or non-original product. Look for the reason in the price difference. Buy the quality, not the rip off. If the knock-off doesn't sell it will go away! IF you keep supporting it, it continues. And the MAJOR problem with supporting the rip-offs and knock-offs is that it impedes the true creators and innovators from coming up with new and needed ideas. They will develop the attitude of "why bother...I'm just going to get ripped off!" And THAT is the real problem. Without this innovation we suffer and stagnate as an industry.

So all you innovators and originators keep the faith. Your ideas are welcomed and appreciated. All you "Knock-off Kings" out here...go get an original idea!!! Then see how you feel when someone knocks YOU off!!!

Most of all the duplications is junk but in the light of the boomstick their were four (4) people selling it this year @ TW and the cost of these things are nothing.. Can't be... Digital Sound sells them for $225, Fright props $99, Night Scream $159 I think.. One vendor I know for a fact was selling cases of 25 for $750. That's $30 each!!! and they are still making money. I appreciate someone selling the same thing at a lower price and making a little profit than someone raping haunters and making a killing (Pun Intended)

Jim Warfield
03-15-2011, 01:16 PM
Here at the Ravens grin (OPEN EVERY NIGHT)- the state highway sign points them here 365 nights a year= tourist attraction!
Different things to be seen here! (Besides my face!)
I REALLY do try to not copy anybody else's stuff or ideas here. Call it my own pride and the desire to please those tourists who keep me financially $olvent!
I don't think that University Art Teachers would have been bringing their classes here to see my Wal-Mart Mask collection!
(Maybe Psych teachers ? "Class, this man is dulisional to the max!")
I doubt if all those various TV productions would have bothered to come either for those Wal-Mart masks.
I do constantly give credit to my former neighbor, mask-maker extrodinair, Jeremy Bohr whose works are seen here en-mass.
When you consciously "TRY" to create on your own, fantastic things can happen and you will like the feeling!
I feel life is way too short to waste it copying .
Is "Originality" simply the ability to "Mask" your sources?
Many have tried to figure out my "sources" not many have succeeded, including myself!
They just all float into my head about 6:58 AM. "This is what you do today, Jim!"
GO FOR IT! WHAT R U WAITING FOR?????
Enjoy.

princeofdarkness
03-15-2011, 02:31 PM
Kyle's stuff always looks amazing, but he really outdid himself this year! His Lycans, Vampires and Demons all looked amazing. I literally went back to
his booth at least 25 times today to keep looking at everything. Each time I would notice another cool prop or costume that I had missed. By far, the
best looking stuff at the show!


Didn't get a chance to attend Transworld this year, as I am preparing for Monsterpallosa. Kyle is a good friend of mine, and I will see him in Pheniox and LA in a few weeks. I will say, Kyle, and B and Midnight Studios have came such a long way from 5 years ago when we first met. His stuff is unbeleiveable and up to the class of just not Haunters, and Collectors but movie quality. I proud to say not only are they good friends and clients but a class act in the Haunt and collector industry.

Michael Walter

chuck weber
03-15-2011, 02:33 PM
sitting here reading tons of posts, and the economy the way it is, why do you people put up with St. Louis ? You who attend should DEMAND a move. (and some respect!) You WOULD THINK Transworld (and others) would GO DIRECTLY to these "HOTELS" and hot spot restaurants and let these owners know that a big halloween show is coming here to St. Louis, and be on your best behavior.( be polite, give good service, etc.) For example: one post said the REN bar was so understaffed (supposedly one bartender for the throngs of haunters and their guests) and RUDE to boot. (who needs that crap?) especially for the price of the drinks) People got fed up and left after one drink, forced to go to the unsafe streets of downtown St. Louis looking for somewhere to go.(now that's scary !)

Guys made dinner reservations at one restaurant, looked forward to a nice dinner, and then got bumped for a larger party? WHO DOES THAT ? (why were these people not accomodated ?)

The "TALENTED" magic act "cleaning" staff at the MAYFAIR HOTEL who made Dan Augusto's $300 dollar jacket "magically appear" after he used the magic words "bitch and moan and complain" (as I would have) to FINALLY get his jacket back.
The only POSITIVE thing I read here was the Bar-B-Que joint a bunch of guys went to, and said the food was great and they had fun.
What about the $3.75 trans-pass you had to buy to travel to "Quarantine on 17" ripoff of whatever it was called? More black plastic and one zombie, please !

I could go on and on.... Where the HELL is the Chamber of Commerce ? Where is the Hospitality ? These businesses should be rolling out the RED CARPET to you people. They obviously don't want YOUR BUSINESS !!!

What about the ripoff vendors from last year who STILL have not delivered goods yet THIS YEAR? (I'm still waiting to hear form Shane to see if SCAREFACTORY made good on their promise to deliver) Don't even get me started on the BOOM STICK controversy.
I also read here that you had to watch where you went in the city of St. Louis. (remember it is the NEW MURDER CAPITAL of the U.S. !!! (what a great public relations gimmick !!! Guaranteed to DRAW new business !)

Hey, Folks, wise up, be safe, get your moneys worth, get some respect again, get a NEW LOCATION for the "DYING" transworld show. You know you want to see some NEW HAUNTS anyway.
Really interested to see just how successful NEXT YEARS' show is with all of the bad rap coming out of this one. You want costumes, it's Houston in January, EVERYBODY !!!!! I submit this post with respect to EVERYONE who is a hard working haunter. I have an idea what you go through, and I respect all of your hard work. (I could NEVER do what you folks do !) You deserve to get that RESPECT BACK. It obviously won't EVER happen in St. Louis.................

Slain
03-15-2011, 02:53 PM
sitting here reading tons of posts, and the economy the way it is, why do you people put up with St. Louis ? You who attend should DEMAND a move. (and some respect!) You WOULD THINK Transworld (and others) would GO DIRECTLY to these "HOTELS" and hot spot restaurants and let these owners know that a big halloween show is coming here to St. Louis, and be on your best behavior.( be polite, give good service, etc.) For example: one post said the REN bar was so understaffed (supposedly one bartender for the throngs of haunters and their guests) and RUDE to boot. (who needs that crap?) especially for the price of the drinks) People got fed up and left after one drink, forced to go to the unsafe streets of downtown St. Louis looking for somewhere to go.(now that's scary !)

Guys made dinner reservations at one restaurant, looked forward to a nice dinner, and then got bumped for a larger party? WHO DOES THAT ? (why were these people not accomodated ?)

The "TALENTED" magic act "cleaning" staff at the MAYFAIR HOTEL who made Dan Augusto's $300 dollar jacket "magically appear" after he used the magic words "bitch and moan and complain" (as I would have) to FINALLY get his jacket back.
The only POSITIVE thing I read here was the Bar-B-Que joint a bunch of guys went to, and said the food was great and they had fun.
What about the $3.75 trans-pass you had to buy to travel to "Quarantine on 17" ripoff of whatever it was called? More black plastic and one zombie, please !

I could go on and on.... Where the HELL is the Chamber of Commerce ? Where is the Hospitality ? These businesses should be rolling out the RED CARPET to you people. They obviously don't want YOUR BUSINESS !!!

What about the ripoff vendors from last year who STILL have not delivered goods yet THIS YEAR? (I'm still waiting to hear form Shane to see if SCAREFACTORY made good on their promise to deliver) Don't even get me started on the BOOM STICK controversy.
I also read here that you had to watch where you went in the city of St. Louis. (remember it is the NEW MURDER CAPITAL of the U.S. !!! (what a great public relations gimmick !!! Guaranteed to DRAW new business !)

Hey, Folks, wise up, be safe, get your moneys worth, get some respect again, get a NEW LOCATION for the "DYING" transworld show. You know you want to see some NEW HAUNTS anyway.
Really interested to see just how successful NEXT YEARS' show is with all of the bad rap coming out of this one. You want costumes, it's Houston in January, EVERYBODY !!!!! I submit this post with respect to EVERYONE who is a hard working haunter. I have an idea what you go through, and I respect all of your hard work. (I could NEVER do what you folks do !) You deserve to get that RESPECT BACK. It obviously won't EVER happen in St. Louis.................

I couldn't agree more.. My brother lives 45 minutes from there but I would even give up seeing him to go elsewhere. The service sucked in every restaurant we entered. I was told the main sports teams were not in town (football and baseball) so they fire all the waiters til the season comes back..
Your right it is time for change and the haunters who make this show along with the vendors should demand higher standards and make TransWorld move from this crappy part of the United States

chuck weber
03-15-2011, 03:00 PM
WWE for a laff. I love hockey, so I would have gone to see the BLUES anyway. (for things to do) thanks for your comments. I KNOW I'm not alone here in my thoughts. If something is wrong (big time) FIX IT !!!

Slain
03-15-2011, 03:19 PM
WWE for a laff. I love hockey, so I would have gone to see the BLUES anyway. (for things to do) thanks for your comments. I KNOW I'm not alone here in my thoughts. If something is wrong (big time) FIX IT !!!
I discussed this very same topic with a good many vendors.. They all hate St. Louis and want it moved...

the ogre
03-15-2011, 04:10 PM
i can almost gaurentee this show would be 1000 times better in the city of philadelphia. down town has a ton of stuff to do. there is a ton of haunts to tour and the convention center is huge. not to mention it is the birthplaace of our nation, we could use a history lesson. throwing cities out there like dallas as a centeral location is well and good but centeral to who? this was our first TW and we loved it. i didnt love the 16+ hr drive there or the 19hr drive home but tw was good to us. ill say that the price for a 10x10 booth was astronomical and the union workers "fuck it i still get paid attitude" got old but we had fun. it doesnt matter where TW goes it is basicaly the go to show of any vendor so the buyers may be disapointed but in order to be successful as a vendor TW is the place to go.

chuck weber
03-15-2011, 04:24 PM
the union KILLS people presenting at the convention center. $60.00 to screw in a light bulb. (someone I know works there) gimmie a break... Philly is no bargain either. hotels downtown are a ripoff (go to priceline.com) rental cars are a joke. 35 minutes from the airport (maybe).... you need a cab to travel to south street and stuff. OAKS, (pa) convention center is alot more friendly ($$$ cash wise) but, it is near Valley Forge. Kinda far from center city. Nice try, ( I am also from here and would LOVE to see the show in philly) but to be realistic, I could never see it happening here. You think people are pissed now.... don't bring it here with our prices.

Nightgore
03-15-2011, 04:37 PM
$250 for wireless internet...REALLY? I'm so using my phone as a hotspot next time. Screw unions. -Tyler

chuck weber
03-15-2011, 05:09 PM
in all fairness, other cities are probably like this too, but when your trying to sell your wares, gotta pay $1400.00 for a damn booth, plus this other stuff, how can you make any money? That is a definate, total ripoff !!!! not a business expense!!!!!

RJ Productions
03-15-2011, 05:31 PM
Similar to the thread on the Pro Haunt Chat... you have to go where it is finanancially feasible for the vendors, bottom line. IF they can't afford to show....we HAVE no show!!! Also no matter where you go you will some kind of issue. How many years were we at Rosemont?? STill there were issues with restaurants, bars etc. At least you can walk to choices in St. Louis.

Philly in March??? Why do you think we left Chicago????

Weather is also an issue. We have to be able to get to the show to do the show!!!

So instead of ranting and raving on the message boards, construct a civil response and sent it to TW??? I am sure they would love to entertain good constructive comments. Right now I would say this was the best attended show to date. Complaint if you want, but people showed up! IF good constructive comments can increase that attendance TW and vendors alike are more than willing to respond. It makes good business sense.

Dman
03-15-2011, 06:38 PM
I would love to see the show in Atlanta, GA. The move would inject new life and interest, we could beg Ben to open Netherworld and see what other haunts are there. I know there are facilities available, the IAAPA convention was held there a few years ago.

Just for the record, I have no ties to Atlanta, I'm located in MA and would have to travel like everyone else.

Dan Augusto

spong8
03-15-2011, 07:20 PM
Heheh Georgia. Hehehe Stab-ville. Rj has already suggested what I was really going to say. Complain to someone who gives two hoots like the people who organize the transworld event.

Jim Warfield
03-15-2011, 07:56 PM
Many yrs. ago a jeweler tried renting floor space there(same building) "The Jewelry Show", and "once" was enough for him! "Too expensive!"
He and his wife traveled all over the USA making a good living selling their creations.. but never again at that location.. "Too Expensive!"
At every show they attended fees were involved and some of those certain shows were pricey but they were venues where they had high-ticket buyers always show up and spend good money, so it all worked out for them.
They also avoided returning to BS/phoney shows that were poorly organized, poorly run and just crappy or dangerous.
(Many people paid with cash back then)

jakprintsHAUNT
03-15-2011, 08:08 PM
As someone who has been going to this show since 1996 (only missing it twice), I would say that the show is very much alive and well. There were droves of buyers, hundreds of vendors, and lots of great atmosphere. While I do miss the giant makeup and costume vendors...most of them wouldnt even talk to the haunt crowd anyway...I used to have to fight just to get catalogs to see the products that were coming out. So while in some ways I miss them, in other ways I dont. I think their being gone has helped step up the game for some of the other custom costume makers and really promote a better quality show across the board in the haunt industry. Im happier to see stuff like movie quality costumes from Robert Kurtman's Creature Corps going into a haunt than a Rubies costume you can buy for $35 at your local costume shop or K-Mart...again it promotes higher quality haunting all around.

As for entertainment, If you couldn't find fun things to do or found bad service you either weren't looking, had bad luck, or didn't try very hard. We had great experiences everywhere we went, and couldn't even fit in everything we wanted to do. Just a sampling of places we went to included:

Silver Ball Room - A Punk Rock pinball pub (playing nothing but punk music and had a whole room of great pinball machines)
Casinos
Pappy's - BEST Barbecue I have ever had. It is now a last day before coming home tradition!
City Museum - Most amazing work of art ever.
Then every restaurant we went to was amazing and the service was great. Anyone that had otherwise again really must have had bad luck.

I enjoyed being able to walk to most things...Chicago was such a pain for night life...you had a 45minute tram ride or 20 minute (expensive) cab ride to get to downtown...and you were a lot less likely to run into other haunters.

Show wise I will agree with many that it seemed like a lot less of the big "wow" new innovative products...lots of twists on things the vendors were already doing. There were only about a handful of things that got my attention this year as compared to a lot more last year. As for quality....there has always been good and bad stuff..because there are buyers that will and do buy both. Some buyers would rather save a buck by going with a lower quality item (although value doesnt always mean lower quality) and take a hit on the quality end of things. If they can pay for the booth...they have every right to be there.

On copycats...it has always happened and always will, and it is in every industry, not just ours...especially when the items aren't patented. As a buyer it is their job to research which are the best. Original is also not always the best...I have seen many times where a copycat made necessary improvements on a product and made it better.

Price wise...its going to cost a lot at any big convention center. With that kind of a show...its not going to get much cheaper anywhere else, and have the same amenities and extras that we get with Transworld. The union thing is of course a pain and expensive....but it comes with the location, and from shows that we have done is even more expensive in Austin.

Thats just my two cents on it all.

Mike "Pogo" Hach

chuck weber
03-15-2011, 08:21 PM
glad you had a positive experience. I think that's all anybody wants and expects for the price they pay.

Twin Locusts
03-15-2011, 08:36 PM
Chuck, you're right on both counts.

All convention cities have challenges, but STL is pretty poor on some counts.
Except location, it is relatively central to haunters from Michigan to the
Gulf! An easy drive for many many people.

Food, customer service, hotels - not so great. Except for Denise at the
Drury front desk, she get's it, a truly helpful happy person that tries to
make others feel welcomed. It's a carry friendly state so I don't mind
trekking from one hotel to another at midnight, can't say that about
Illinois.

Chicago's great but it's too cold. Atlanta is outstanding in March on all counts.
First, the convention facility is amazing, three major hotels within two blocks,
and it's near 70 most days by now. Outstanding dining within walking distance,
met Ted himself at his "Montana Grill" downtown two years ago, lots of places
to go for drinks and steak.

When the convention center's finished in Nashville it'll make for a great option
as well, even more actual night life in a concentrated area than Atlanta- and
Nashville's like Houston in that it takes zero chite from punks and derelicts in
the tourist zone - you're nearly as safe as Disney Land in the Broadway Corridor.
Still, not as centrally located as St. Louis.

Allen H
03-15-2011, 08:55 PM
Me and mine had no ill experiences in the city at all. The dinners were great (I highly recommend Mosaic and Mango) and the hotel staff were fine and all the people I saw were friendly. I dont see the giant issues that some of you had with it? I wasnt with you obviously I had a great time, Im really looking forward to going to city museum again next year.
Allen H

drfrightner
03-15-2011, 09:26 PM
I don't think you can ask for better entertainment for the price... WORLD CLASS casino and resort across the street. The arena had events going on blues hockey and what ever just down the street. You had a bowling alley, dueling piano bar, tons of places eat, night clubs, city museum, museums to visit if you choose to take a break from the show alll free mind you from art gallery, science center, and our zoo is WORLD CLASS voted best in America.

You guys keep saying you like city museum well there is another place some thing is better: Magic House you guys missed that one.

A hotel everyone shacked up in is directly across the street from the convention center, haunt tours, parties, and for the buyers the show was free.

What else can you ask for... we had great education and a giant show floor.

To me however the only let down was the products the innovation was not great... probably the worst I've ever seen overall.

Outside of that I would say you couldn't ask for more.

Larry

spookologist
03-15-2011, 11:06 PM
I agree with Allen, we also had a great experience with the hotels, restaurants, the bars, casino, convention and the vendors. Most of all, we all get to spend time together as an industry. Having everything within walking distance is a plus and the chance to see some great haunts is awesome but I do think its time to move on to a new location. Three years is long enough. I'd like to see it go to a convention center that has a similar setup as St Louis. Hopefully some of the ones mentioned above are as accommodating. It would be nice to see some of the haunts in New Orleans, Atlanta, Nashville and even in a few years back to St Louis to see the Darkness again.

I think the vendors had an off year with new ideas. I do hope they all had a successful show with tons of orders so they can come back strong next year with lots of great stuff. Gore-galore has a right to be upset, this is a very small industry when it comes to specialized prop makers and there's a lot of room for new ideas. No need to copy someones else. I also think Midnight Studios stole the show with some great looking costumes and props.

I can't believe it went by so fast, I didn't even make it to all the booths. It was great seeing a lot of you at the show.

Wayne

Bradenton Haunted Trail
03-16-2011, 06:55 AM
I thought the show was great but i do agree that the show should move every year so we can see haunts around the country. It would keep the interest for everyone buyer's and vendors. Yes there are issues in every major city but I think it would be nice for the show to move around. I had nothing but good experiences with the restaurants and bars. And would be happy to go back to St.Louis in a few years but let's all write TW and ask them to move it.

Shawn
http://bradentonhauntedtrail.com

Grimley
03-16-2011, 07:01 AM
Believe me when I say I was not thrilled when St Louis was chosen. I have come however to enjoy the city. There is a lot a person can do and much of it within walking distance. We did not have any service issues at restaurants or the hotel. The only thing I worry about every year is the weather. We lucked out this year and the weather was very nice. As for the show moving every year its a nice thought but not the right show. More hauntcon. We go to buy and deal and the extra activities are just that. Extra. In Chicago the was nothing to do other than go to the hotel bar. There was nothing for 30 miles.

Haunt Bob
03-16-2011, 03:45 PM
Hello All,

We wanted to thank everyone for a great show. We were the guys at booth #214 PureTerror Products selling the wall poppers and Terrorblasters aka boomsticks.... There's only one company that makes all the crackers/boomsticks and they are made out of the country. PureTerror products will never state we make something that we don't. We wanted to bring a new price change to the industry. The mark up on the boomsticks was over 300%. We wanted to make it affordable for EVERYONE from teenage kids to home haunters...Ect..... If the industry doesn't make stuff more affordable there will be no industry to sell to. PureTerror Product will always charge customers a fare price. Remember you cant copy or steal something from a company that doesn't make it. ALL THE POPPERS & BOOMSTICKS COME FROM ONE SOURCE AND THAT COMPANY MAKES EVERYTHING THAT WAS FOR SALE AT THE SHOW. Who ever purchased the wall poppers or terrorblasters from PureTerror Products at Transworld know's that we never told anyone that we made these items. But we did make them work better. If you would like to purchase more Terrorblasters or Wall Poppers at show prices call a PureTerror Sales Rep (845)391-0071 or go to our website www.pureterrorproducts.com ...... Thank you again to everyone who purchased from us at Transworld...........

chuck weber
03-17-2011, 10:22 AM
will check back later

Nightgore
03-17-2011, 10:57 AM
I say, if you want a traveling show...go to Hauntcon.

I think TW should move every 4-5 years; hell look at IAAPA...it almost NEVER leaves Orlando! In fact, something like 2 or 3 years ago they just signed a 10 deal to stay in Orlando. This created better rates on booth spaces, etc.

If TW could sign 5 year deals in a new city every 5 years, I'd be happy with that. TW is about business. period. The gatherings, haunt tours, social events, etc. etc. are fun...but really, we're there to do business.

As far as sales go, I'm hearing ALOT of vendors where DOWN in sales. It was our first year as a vendor, so we didn't know what to expect and honestly just ONE sale is an UP! Hahaha...but we seen alot of people waiting to buy things for their haunt? WHY???!! It's not smart at all to wait and purchase items after the show, these vendors are only going to get BUSIER and prices WILL GO UP!! I just don't understand this thinking...we probably did 90% of our buying at this show and spent WAY more money than we needed too! Hahaha...it was hard not too though, so many cool things!

As for vendors copying or knoocking off product...it's everywhere. We provided websites and marketing...am I knocking off Chad Savage? NO!! Yet we provide the same service. So, the boom sticks? They're popular...ALOT of vendors had them this year and prices went down. We bough several of this type of effect from one vendor but we looked at ALL vendors and really talked about them all.

The Gore-Galore thing...man, stuff happens. Did anyone notice how Scarefactory knocked-off the Dark Raven Dog? Almost identical! How many people offered projection faces after Night Frights brought them? What about the talking skulls? etc. etc. It's everywhere and will always happen; and yes, it's a GOOD THING! If creates competition and breeds creativity and brings prices down. All great things!

Just some thoughts.

-Tyler

Matt Marich
03-18-2011, 10:30 AM
Philadelphia is one of the strongest unions in the country, just behind NY. FORGET IT!!

chuck weber
03-19-2011, 01:34 PM
I'm from the philly area and I know guys who work there at the convention center.....forget it !!!!!! you gotta pay a fortune to park, you need to take a cab to get anywhere, the neighborhood is NOT that great......there are EXPENSIVE hotel right near by but......... as a local from around here..... take my word for it....... Valley Forge, Pa is the SHOW and the place to go. (NATIONAL HAUNTERS CONVENTION MAY 2011

Grimley
03-19-2011, 03:20 PM
I am not sure Dreamscape knocked off Gore galore. Just because another company made large stalkaround type costumes does not mean it was a knockoff. By that logic everyone who brought silicone masks was knocking off CFX.

lurker
03-19-2011, 04:27 PM
And CFX was knocking off SPFX Masks and SPFX Masks were knocking off whoever started using full head silicone mask pieces in movies and tv. Somebody look that up. I'm pretty sure we will end up at the inventor of the silicone breast. God bless him.

Allen H
03-19-2011, 09:28 PM
"I am not sure Dreamscape knocked off Gore galore. Just because another company made large stalkaround type costumes does not mean it was a knockoff. By that logic everyone who brought silicone masks was knocking off CFX. "
There isint a shadow of a doubt in my mind that they ripped off gore galore. Employees left gore galore and went directly to dreamsacpe, then dreamscape changed the focus of their product line (formerly almost all dummies) to paralell Gore Galores. Is it common in the industry..yes. Does that make them crappy humans... yes. In my book it does. They are not improving an existing prouct or offereing the same quality at a lower price, their stuff seemed really inferior and was just a little bit under Gore glaores in price.
I will not support them and I urge others to do the same. Competition is one thing a targeted attack is another ting all together. If I left a company and started working for another in the same industry I would do all I could to distance myself from them.
Allen H

Goblin Sis
03-19-2011, 09:46 PM
They are not improving an existing prouct or offereing the same quality at a lower price, their stuff seemed really inferior and was just a little bit under Gore glaores in price.

I agree, their stalkers were no where as good as Gore-Galores, but their frame & harness system was *much* better. It weighs 9 pounds, is fully adjustable with the touch of a button, not to mention just looks better. I tried one on just for comparison (we have one of Gore-Galores stalkers, the Goblin) and it was so much better.

Now, would I purchase our next stalker from them because of that? No way. But hopefully Gore-Galore does adjust their harness system soon to something similar, or at least make it less heavy & easier to adjust quickly for different actors to wear.

I was weirded out when I was talking about purchasing a neck biter from Gore-Galore and one of the brothers asked which one. I told him, and he told me to give him a few months and they can make one for me. Um... No. Now that is WAY wrong and I wouldn't touch that one with a 10 foot pole.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Capt.Chaos
03-19-2011, 10:00 PM
We have had nothing but positive experiences in St.Louis. Food great.Great service. friendly people. The grand is nice. I love it and so does my family and staff. Im fuzzy and warm just thinking about it.

Buck

chuck weber
03-19-2011, 10:14 PM
I thought I saw a post somewhere that they left early. If they did, hopefully the sold all of their wares. their stuff is top quality all the way. I would pay more for their quality merchandise.

Grimley
03-19-2011, 11:26 PM
You realize that the reason you said you would not buy from Dreamscape is because they ripped off gore galore. And then in the next sentence you recommended Gore Galore go and ripoff Dreamscapes harness system. See what I mean. Making improvements on a product or making another large costume is not ripping off. Someone down the line would develop another large creature costume. You even admit the harness is completely different and much better. So the only thing they have that they in common is that they are costumes. I am sure that someone before them made large costumes. I could look it up. By the way I do not work for Dreamscape.

Goblin Sis
03-20-2011, 08:07 AM
You realize that the reason you said you would not buy from Dreamscape is because they ripped off gore galore. And then in the next sentence you recommended Gore Galore go and ripoff Dreamscapes harness system. See what I mean. Making improvements on a product or making another large costume is not ripping off. Someone down the line would develop another large creature costume. You even admit the harness is completely different and much better. So the only thing they have that they in common is that they are costumes. I am sure that someone before them made large costumes. I could look it up. By the way I do not work for Dreamscape.

Nope, I did not recommend that Gore-Galore rip off Dreamscapes harness. I suggested that Gore-Galore improve theirs. That is all. I also said that Dreamscapes stalkers weren't near as good as Gore-Galores. The harness, yes. The rest of the costume? Not even close.


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Goblin Sis
03-20-2011, 08:15 AM
Ok, I just reread what I wrote originally, and I did suggest that Gore-Galore change their harness to something similar. By NO means did I suggest that Gore-Galore rip off their idea, just improve it. Just wanted to clarify that before you pointed that out for me ;)

Now, how do you feel about their offer to make me a neck biter? That is very much a Gore-Galore item, I very well might be wrong, but I haven't seen anything similar before.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

shawnc
03-20-2011, 08:03 PM
Speaking of boomsticks and all of the associated popping devices and who invented and made what, take a look at these: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/405275111/electronic_firecracker.html

Here's a video of the electronic/electric firecrackers in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGNAS22r3rU&feature=related

Look familiar? Pale Night and some other companies also use them in their electrical device props.

Ashley Whetsel
03-20-2011, 09:45 PM
There isint a shadow of a doubt in my mind that they ripped off gore galore. Employees left gore galore and went directly to dreamsacpe, then dreamscape changed the focus of their product line (formerly almost all dummies) to paralell Gore Galores. Is it common in the industry..yes. Does that make them crappy humans... yes. In my book it does. They are not improving an existing prouct or offereing the same quality at a lower price, their stuff seemed really inferior and was just a little bit under Gore glaores in price.
I will not support them and I urge others to do the same. Competition is one thing a targeted attack is another ting all together. If I left a company and started working for another in the same industry I would do all I could to distance myself from them.
Allen H

First off the boys were fired, they didnt leave GG.....and they didn't even start communicating with Dream Scape for about 2 weeks after that.
Also I am not directing this post at just you Allen, this is for everyone who has been posting bad things about a company they have no idea about.


One thing that gets me about the human race is that they will listen to whom they think is right and never get the full/other side of the story. But it sucks when the people who are spreading the rumors more and more are actually lying or really stretching what really happened/was told to them. Since there seems to be a lot of people who only want to hear it from one side of this story…or never came and asked for more info on our behalf… I am going to finally voice out for myself.
Many of you know Jake Rich from numerous shows….until now did you ever have a problem with him???? NO!!! I bet you all had a few drinks and have bull shitted with him at countless shows. He was one of the main guys behind Gore Galore for the almost the past 4 years. He and his twin brother were the ones you would see out late into the nights, talking gore and doing random business talks for the company. Jake held many titles while at GG, which includes lead sculptor, lead painter, shop boss, art director, production coordinator, and he was originally hired on to increase efficiency and product turnover time_______ So now you can ask yourself why the stuff at Dream Scape Studios look so much like what GG use to have! We did not recast GG giant heads. Jake was the one who sculpted most of the items during the past 3 years….to name a few the pumpkin, the witch, swamp hag, Caustic the clown, Pierce Sr., the giant goat head, and he also helped design the Death Knight costume and multiple hand weapons.
If you ask me, credit should be given where it is due. His style is his own…and so is Kevin’s. But don’t start spreading lies about how he stole this and stole that…..when he was the one who created it to begin with. And I haven’t ever seen an artist changing their style because their ex-boss told them to. Jake has moved on and has taken his talent and style someplace else where they can actually make a difference and are valued.
I am pretty sure a lot of people know about how Jake and Ben got fired/ or how they walked out of GG (which isn’t true!!!) I have heard so many stories from people that it is really impressive to know that one person can make this many lies and still think they won’t get caught. Yes the boys were fired, but only because Kevin couldn’t run his shop correctly. Without good communication in a business, that business will fall and fail. Aren’t owners supposed to deal with problems inside their company… or you could just ignore/run away from the situation or put your trust in the wrong people and decide to get rid of the ones who really counted.
There does happen to be some people who are in the industry to help others grow, not in a vengeful deceitful way. But to show the community and others the amazing skill and talent that people have. To promote the love of what they do and to help EACH OTHER grow into better sculptors, welders, painters and technicians.
As I am sure many of you will tell me I am wrong…. I just can’t wait for people to figure out all the lies spread by those who only know half the story. Karma will be sweet..... and from the taste I got this past weekend at TransWorld, I might enjoy it more than chocolate!!!!

Allen H
03-20-2011, 10:26 PM
Ashley,
I never once spoke to kevin at the show. I never asked about what happened. I have no idea what happened, and I dont care, Im not into drama or gossip. I saw people who used to work for Kevin now work at another booth at the show. I saw that that booths product line was completely different than it was in past years and paralelled gore galores product line. It dosent take anyone to tell me what happened, I saw it happen. There really is no other way to explain that series of events other than they left gore galore and are now ripping them off at the new company they work for.
I know nothing about the drama and dont need or want to. If I were Jake, and I was "wronged" by a company or person then I would not make similar products when I started up. I would do all I could to distance myself from that niche market and do my own thing, make my own name. Right now he is only honoring Kevin and gore galore by making similar products. Reguardless of the conditions he left under we are looking at what he did since he left, that is poor conduct.
I have no doubt Jake is talented and will be sucessful in the future, but right now he is still supporting gore galore by reinforcing that their products are worth copying.
Allen H

Ashley Whetsel
03-20-2011, 10:29 PM
Also, its kind of hard to get away from people in this field of work. Especially when you went to college and earned your degree in Special FX and Fabrication. This is what Jake loves to do. He didn't let his first FX job discourage him, and he wont stop working now because of the drama. When you have your heart into your work, thats when the best stuff comes out. He will continue to shock and awe the haunt industry, just as he has done for years previous.

Ashley Whetsel
03-20-2011, 10:39 PM
so what about the other companies that have slightly larger costumes........ are they not on the chopping block also?? Cause didn't Chip's Creations do one like a few years back at MHC? It dosen't make sense to me why everyone is blacklisting/attacking Dream Scape only because we thought of/developed a better and lighter armature before anyone else.....oh and the fact that the Rich twins are now working with this company. We are only trying to provide what others cant. Our quality is just as good as others.

Fear At Its Best
03-20-2011, 10:47 PM
First and foremost we would like to thank each and every person or group that either stopped by or purchased items from Dream Scape Studios, there has been much discussion in regards to “knock offs” and “copies” when in fact the original designer/sculptor behind the makings of many Gore Galore products has taken his talent and moved on to work here with us at Dream Scape Studios.
Let’s look at the history of giant/oversized puppet like costumes and where they began before we go giving credit to someone whom themselves took the idea and fashioned it in their own way. You can go back as far as the 1600’s to Europe and follow it all the way to the 1930’s to the United States where Disney too made their own version of these large figure like costumes. In all fairness we don’t know who the originator was, however we do know that Gore Galore, Ex Mortis, Fear Scape Studios and possibly others have put their own unique spin on this idea. Those that seem to have the problem are those who are too ignorant to look up the facts and in turn save face by bashing another company that has the artist behind Gore Galore products and put their own spin on it making it better in more than one way all while offering it at a lower price.
Our improvement was a light weight aluminum armature/frame that is fully adjustable in three different areas, shoulder width, lumbar support location to fit users back making it more ergonomic, and costume height to keep user from walking on costume fabric. These improvements were by far needed as all the feedback we received before going into production were hit on in many ways. Additional improvements are interchangeable heads and shoulder supports between armature/frames within minutes, modular pieces that are cost effective to replace when needed thus eliminating the need to ship an entire costume back for repair, shipping is less expensive with modular pieces as the costume can be broken down and shipped in boxes rather than being dumped onto a skid and charging the customer a ridiculously high flat shipping fee. These improvements were our general improvements that apply to both our non animatronic and animatronic versions. Non animatronic version has head movement to mimic that of a bobble head with separate mouth movement as well, animatronic version has head movement left, right and up and down along with mouth movement all made possible with the use of a Wii Nunchuck and an EFX Tek control board. Utilizing quarter scale servos and gear reduction drives we are able to move the character head without asking the operator to stick their head in a helmet that is either too small or uncomfortable, either way feedback suggested something better was needed. With all these improvements and added control value we are still able to produce and sell at or below the cost of our so called competition that “originated” the idea. All in all our armature/frame is lighter, better fitting and looks professional in all aspects. It’s time for those “garage looking” frames and armature that are currently being sold as “professional” to be a thing of the past and give the customer something they expect when paying.
Many of today’s products can be found made in so many various ways and if you take the time to go back and research who actually originated the idea you will find that many times to be different from what you thought. Yes we made “dead buddies” in 2008 and yes they came with a death certificate, Gore Galore has “my pet zombies” with an adoption certificate copies I think not ours are dolls that you can take anywhere with you as they weigh only ten pounds. My pet zombies are static figures that weigh 50 pounds or more. If my memory serves me correct Cabbage Patch kids came out before either Dream Scape or Gore Galore and they offered adoption certificates, point in case is this every industry takes product in one way or another and makes it better in their own way.
For all those that posted in support of us thank you and for all those that had their own ideas of what the truth really is we encourage you to check your facts and at least check out the very product you are speaking of. We sold plenty of them to dispute what you had to say, I am sure many of our customers will freely give you their opinions of the costumes they purchased at Transworld.
Allen H for your knowledge we did not attend Transworld last year, nor did we take any orders that you so nicely pointed out that several people are still waiting on, please check your facts….
Dman had you stopped and taken a look at what you “thought was a much flimsier version” you would have found that to be quite the opposite. Stronger, tougher and versatile is what you would have found! Shame you say, well shame on those who take advantage of the very customers whom we are selling product to with overpriced, “garaged” mechanics and an uncomfortable harness that is begging to be replaced. Either way thank your for your shallow thoughts.

Ashley Whetsel
03-20-2011, 11:09 PM
I think their is a major problem here with this Dreamscape Company.

The giant costumes aren't the only ripoff,
Kevin developed the Pet Zombies with death certificate, Dreamscape has Dead Buddies and come with guess what? A death certificate..
They have ripped off the Big o pipe, the zombies heads on plaques, the Bucky guts and there may be more, I looked quickly.

I also noticed that the twin brothers that used to work for Kevin were in Dreamscapes booth, They were wearing Gore Galore shirts, it wasn't bad enough to rape Kevins product, they had to rub it in his face.

Your a strong man Kevin, had this happened to me, the twins wouldn't have been able to walk into the show.

Dan Augusto

Dan, you need to read the last couple of posts in your thread..... then you might get an actual idea of what is going on. Jake didnt deserve to be fired.... but when things like that happen, you take all those ideas you have in your head, and ones that you have thrown around for years (and they never get a light of day) and you walk off with them. Also, the boys were not wearing GG shirts in Dream Scape booths. They had their jackets from GG that they wore outside when they went to smoke.....but other than that we did not wear the GG logo.....why waste a good jacket? If it really means that much to everyone, I will get patches on them so no one will mix them up again. We are with Dream Scape now, and we will dedicate our full effort into making it a stand out company!!

wllmsnamy
03-20-2011, 11:27 PM
I have to say that what I saw from dream scape was by far better than anything gore galore had, their paint detail is by far better and thier new cosutme frame is to be applauded. I cant wait for my frame to arrive (yes they sell them seperately) so I can replace the sorry frame and harness that I have had to deal with in the past from gore galore. With only what two months to create new heads and a frame with a harness I think they did a great job, with time I think they will have an entire army of new heads that will stand out over gore galore as from what I read the talent behind gore galore has left. I also agree that if the talent that sculpted gore galor products has left and currently producing similiar products elswhere then yes they will look similar as that is the sculptors trade mark or his signature if you will. I want the best product for my money not whats available and have it be less than desirable to wear for any given length of time. I wish both companies the best of luck and I will continue to purchase what is best for my money. Keep on going Jake!

Grimley
03-20-2011, 11:31 PM
None of the items you guys have listed were ripped off unless you consider Gore Galore just ripped them first. The adoption certificates was not their idea. Large costumes or stalkarounds were not their idea. They just took the idea and ran with it. I like the competition in the market. It drives ingenuity and keeps the pricing down for the consumer. I still don't know where you are coming from on this Allen. I know you may be good friends with the owners of Gore Galore but this argument doesn't have a leg to stand on. If you want to say Dreamscape ripped off merchandise then you must admit gore galore did the same. If you look back a year or two you will see when everyone was saying that other companies were ripping of SPFX with silicone masks. It was a terrible argument. They don't own the silicone mask industry. Now its accepted and 4 new vendors had them this year. They are making better masks and cheaper. I think this will have the same effect. The better made less expensive version will take the market.

damon carson
03-21-2011, 12:23 AM
Ex Mortis had the stalkarounds before anyone. Remember that? All ive got to say. Not sayin anyone ripped anyone off. I have really no idea.
Damon

Jim Warfield
03-21-2011, 06:58 AM
The owner takes on an apprentice. the apprentice works like a dog-slave. learning the trade(keeping those trade secrets)finally if the posibility presents itself, the apprentice breaks off , goes on his own, sets up his shop, takes on an apprentice.
"Is Everybody Happy?"
Probably only in fits and spurts.
Who gets the major part of the profit from who's work?
Whose name is on the creations?
These are the two sticking points for me , personally, but if everything is OK with owners, apprentices, then who really has a gripe?
Anybody ever heard of a guy named "Seldon"?
He was in court for maybe 20 years claiming he had patented the automobile. Most car companys paid him for years except Henry Ford.
When the Judge found in Ford's favor GM felt pretty stupid having paid Seldon all that money for 20 years.

Allen H
03-21-2011, 07:08 AM
There is way to much emotion in Ashleys posts for her to be rational and listen to reason. Ashley are you a girlfriend or mom or something to one of the guys?
Your defending with all heart and no objectivity. Its a great quality and its great your so loyal and close, but it seems like your to close to e able to see the big picture. I cant make it any simpler. They worked at one place, then worked somewhere else, then the new place they worked made almost all o f the same products that the old company did. So alot of people are saying they ripped off the first company. Maybe they did design everything at gore galore (I dont think thats true) but they should have looked into other market niches to use their talets. What they are doing designing similar products almost mirroring the entire line is disreputeable. Is it illegal I dont know, but it smacks of a lack of character and low moral standards. If the produced line makes me think they have morality issues then I would worry about the office and business end also.

willmsnamy- It is appearent that you are not a contributing forum member. Yet you have three posts in three days all saying how great dreamscape studios. Including one that was very "infomercially" and decieving as you seemed to appear like a regular customer. Do not insult our intelligence and think we wont see through this. I have no doubt that you are affiliated with dreamscape studios in some reguard.

Grimley- Im coming from the same side you are just a side lines person who saw at the show. I dont think gore galore ripped off anyone in the creation of their products. Im not saying they invented them either, they adapted several things to the haunt market.
" None of the items you guys have listed were ripped off unless you consider Gore Galore just ripped them first."
I disagree, Gore galore evolved and added to the industry the products they have now. I remember gore galore had giant costumes meant mostly for parades there was an alien and a clown and I think one other. I was in the big costume market myself back in the day. I worked for stiltstalkers then. There were no stilt costumes at the show in 96 so in 97 we exhibited. That next year gore galore had scaled down from the 15 ft costumes they had for parades to the style they have now, and stalkarounds showed up. The market was full of big suits in a flash. A few other companies ended up with stilt suits the next year and I left stilt stalkers.

"The adoption certificates was not their idea."
I never saw them at a haunt show but I did see them on cabbage patch kids My guess is thats wheve Kevin got the idea. Taking a concept from one industry and applying it to another isint the same as making knockoffs of multiple products in another companies line.

"Large costumes or stalkarounds were not their idea. They just took the idea and ran with it."
Perhaps- I recall them being first in our industry with them, others may recall differently I wont state my opinions as fact. On the scene at that time were stalk arounds and Gore galore. The suits looked different, the sculpting was way different and the paint scheme was way different as well as the overall look and fabric.
The dreamscape suits look like emaciated mini-me version of gore galores suits, the colors are the same, the fabric appears to be dyed the same. the hand and head sculpts appear to be the same. If they took the idea from gore galore and ran with it Id be singing their praises, but to me my opion is it looks like they just took the idea.

"I like the competition in the market. It drives ingenuity and keeps the pricing down for the consumer."
As do I, I just hate rip offs. These guys have talent and it seems like a work ethic- why not apply it in a new direction. Why make a whole slew of products that are styled after Gore galore?

"I still don't know where you are coming from on this Allen. I know you may be good friends with the owners of Gore Galore but this argument doesn't have a leg to stand on."
Grimley- Im actually as good of friends with Kevin as you and I are. we have talked a few times and thats it. I do like a number of his products the innovative ones especially. You will see me pimping the scream cube on here pretty often because it fills a niche. I never saw barrel and bucket toppers before they did it, and I really like those, the skeleton organs are great and innovative. Time after time I see stuff from them I havent seen from anyone, I will support that as it drives the industry forward.
I cant fathom you sayiing it dosent have a leg to stand on. What conclusion do you draw when you see employees leave one company and start at another- then the new company develops a paralell line of products... to me thats a no brainer. If the employee switch were not a factor then I may share your position.

"If you look back a year or two you will see when everyone was saying that other companies were ripping of SPFX with silicone masks. It was a terrible argument."
Agreed- and i wasnt in it. But...If an employee left SPFX to start CFX then I would be calling foul just as I am now. The processes to make silicone masks have been pretty heavily guarded and CFX had to develop their own ways of doing things as did all the new guys out there. They didnt get an ex employee who worked for the competion previously.

"They are making better masks and cheaper. I think this will have the same effect. The better made less expensive version will take the market. "
I agree with the middle part and disagree with the second part. I think the better made product will take the market. I think there is a half a stalk around in almost every haunts shop in the country, they broke, they didnt last the company is gone. Gore galore is still here. I dont think gore galores prices will go down, I think if the quality goes up on dreamscapes big costumes then the price will too.

I dont have a dog in this hunt Grimley, and i know you dont either. I just dont like the feeling of seeing someone ripped off. Im not emotionally defending a buddy Im just saying what I see- like you are.
Allen H

graystone
03-21-2011, 07:31 AM
Interesting for sure. Ashely I think you have a stake in this because your post is all one sided. I heard from several people and not Kevin why these guys were fired. Do I know the truth? NO will I ever know? NO And honestly its none of our business. Only those involved will ever know the truth. I will say this if what I was told is true Kevin had no choice and he made a decision to do what he did to cover himself and protect his business.

This is where all this is giving us all a bad taste. Ok Kevin may have not started the giant costume craze but what he did do with it is make it his focuse and mnprove it and make it his own. Ex Mortis was the first ones I ever seen with the big stalk arounds they came out with 2 or 3 and to this day that's all I have ever seen and besides at this point they are so 1990's no one wants them in a top rated attraction they NEVER TOOK IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL! Their detail so lacks and in compairing what they do and Kevin does is so 100% different it's like day light and dark their is no compairison. Now let's move on to the new company they are almost the SAME! NO THEY ARE THE SAME! This is where it's coming off as bad. Why did they not say ok Kevin it's on and wait till you see what we come out with! However they did not do that they simply said ok we will just produce the same thing you are and simply stab you in the back! I don't give a rant ass who made them if they were hired to sculpt, build and produce for Kevin they they belong to Kevin that's what they were paid to do as employees.

Kevin has good work morals and anyone who knows me knows I will walk through hell to protect a buyer and I sure as hell will do the same when it comes to a vendor who is like Kevin and is done wrong! If I were Dreamscape I would have said yes we will do this and bring our company to the next level together BUT you have to do your own thing something outside the box! Now what's happened is Dreamscape has been pulled into something they should not be in. I also feel they should have monitored what was going on more. They should have said to them instead if trying to piss Kevin and others off focus on making something totally different!

I could go on and on but you see where I am going and where I am going with it. I might add I have never bought a costume from Kevin because I really can't use them in my show. But again I see what he has done with his company and I feel the others should have went with a different direction! Do you guys see where I am going with this and understand? Allen? anyone? Shane and it's I think I made my point! Shane

Fear At Its Best
03-21-2011, 07:41 AM
Simply put the ex-employees were the talent behind Gore Galore cosutmes as they sculpted, painted and assembled them all while adding value with their improvements along the way. When they leave so does the talent and they will continue to do what they were trained to do both in college and at gore galore. What your asking is rediculous, if you were a mechanic by trade for years at one garage and came up with a method or a tool for changing brake pads out that saved both time and money then one day getting fired, would you then say to yourself "well I cant get a job at another garge and not use what I learned or even my time saving idea or tool as it would be a rip off"? The sculpts were his as are they now and yes they look alike and again had you stoped and taken a look you would see there were numerous designs that were implemented by us that qulifies us as taking something and making it our own. Ours are better fitting, more presentable, modular, light weight and above all cost less to our customers. Your comments or views are only helping as we continue to sell more cosutmes each day and once enough costumes are out you will see that our design is not just merely a copy of someone elses product. Thank you for your support and added views.

Allen H
03-21-2011, 08:03 AM
"First and foremost we would like to thank each and every person or group that either stopped by or purchased items from Dream Scape Studios, there has been much discussion in regards to “knock offs” and “copies” when in fact the original designer/sculptor behind the makings of many Gore Galore products has taken his talent and moved on to work here with us at Dream Scape Studios. "
Yeah thats the part I dont like- it seems like he brought a bunch of ideas and products with him. Why not go a different direction with his talents?

"Our improvement was a light weight aluminum armature/frame that is fully adjustable in three different areas, shoulder width, lumbar support location to fit users back making it more ergonomic, and costume height to keep user from walking on costume fabric. These improvements were by far needed as all the feedback we received before going into production were hit on in many ways. Additional improvements are interchangeable heads and shoulder supports between...."
These are great features no doubt. I will point out that since you didnt have these last year what you call "improvements" were to someone elses product.
If they are improvements as you called them, then they are copies-copies with "improvements". A brand new product shouldnt be labeled *Improved*. They are copies. you language use says so. In the future call them features and that will help dispell the copy issue.

"With all these improvements and added control value we are still able to produce and sell at or below the cost of our so called competition that “originated” the idea. All in all our armature/frame is lighter, better fitting and looks professional in all aspects. It’s time for those “garage looking” frames and armature that are currently being sold as “professional” to be a thing of the past and give the customer something they expect when paying."
Its odd to me that you slam their costumes in the same post proudly say you hired the designers of those garage looking costumes.

"Allen H for your knowledge we did not attend Transworld last year, nor did we take any orders that you so nicely pointed out that several people are still waiting on, please check your facts…."
Ok Checked...yup my buddies had contact just before show from you, and at the show this year you promised to make it up to them in product. Still missing product. Im sure it was ordered last year but it may have been at MHC as opposed to TW.

Im afraid I dont know your name, Im sorry otherwise I would reply using it as that is polite. I am sure you have a skewed view of the situation as do I. If these suits had been developed indepentantly of Gore galores no one would be calling foul. I dont think anyone is saying Gore galore invented big puppet costumes- I am saying its sucks that you hired people from there and then made a line of similar products. They and you are talented and innovative, but this particular outcome was poorly done in my opinion. I hope in years to come you distance yourself further form their product lines and develop your own.
Perhaps I have been unfair in my asessment- time will tell. I do think your product is fine I just think it needs to develop its own look and come into its own. I dont like the situation it was created under and that taints my opinion of it. It will take awhile for that to go away. Im not a fan of marketing or hype that slams another company I dont think its necessary. Im not involved, instead of attick those who are saying what they saw why not back up from the situation and see how it looks. We are not idiots because we dont see your point of view, in some ways I think we are seeing more because we are not so close to the issue. Its not a crime to take and idea and modify it, but the way this seems to have been done to me seems wrong. I cant support that, its my choice. Its Grimlys choice to endorse who he wants.
Your history lesson was unnecessary Im pretty well versed in histroy and costume/ puppet history. This is drama and im backing out I have said my piece. Stay on the boards and contribute to the forums as I will do. We disagree on a point, thats all. I dont have to hate you or call you names to get my side across and in the future Im sure there will be things we will agree on.
Good luck in all your new endeavors,
Allen H

Allen H
03-21-2011, 08:31 AM
"Simply put the ex-employees were the talent behind Gore Galore cosutmes as they sculpted, painted and assembled them all while adding value with their improvements along the way. When they leave so does the talent and they will continue to do what they were trained to do both in college and at gore galore. What your asking is rediculous, if you were a mechanic by trade for years at one garage and came up with a method or a tool for changing brake pads out that saved both time and money then one day getting fired, would you then say to yourself "well I cant get a job at another garge and not use what I learned or even my time saving idea or tool as it would be a rip off"?"

I dont think its rediculous, Its difficult yes but I think its the way things should be done. If you developed a tool for a company- then its their tool. It takes more work to stand out. You guys have a great starting point now go from there.

"The sculpts were his as are they now and yes they look alike and again had you stoped and taken a look you would see there were numerous designs that were implemented by us that qulifies us as taking something and making it our own. Ours are better fitting, more presentable, modular, light weight and above all cost less to our customers. Your comments or views are only helping as we continue to sell more cosutmes each day and once enough costumes are out you will see that our design is not just merely a copy of someone elses product. "

I saw the differences, Im making a point to not comment on the quality of the suits. That is not what I have issue with I think I made my points in previous posts.
You have started on a bad foot. Take steps and distance yourself, you want to be better great be better, you want to be original...your not there yet. Refine your look and make it your own. Explore color options and different sculpting and painting techniques to make your selves stand apart.
In 1998 I had an awesome moment when at one corner of the show Gore galores Dragon warrior costume, another one of there costumes, a stalk around, me in a creature crates dragon costume, and the immortal vampire costume (from scarefactory remember that?) were all in the same area. We had a mock fight and it was a blast. The sacre factory guy fell over because he had 5gallon bucket stilts (bad idea unsafe!). It was great, we were all big costumes but we all had our own independant look. I cant say that about your suits, that is the thrust of my argument.

"Thank you for your support and added views."

You are welcome. I hope you do see it as support becuase it really is. distancing your self from the other companies is always a good thing. If you want help with ideas on how to do that then PM me. I have concepts and products that I will never get a chance to make, Id be happy to share them with you. I also know of a ton of fabric options that will set you apart. Costuming is my passion I love making haunt actors look cool.You have an opertunity to do it but are staying in their shadow by having a similar look reguardless of the interior and quality of the suits. You looking different and unique helps both of your companies and the industry.
Allen H

Ashley Whetsel
03-21-2011, 08:41 AM
There is way to much emotion in Ashleys posts for her to be rational and listen to reason. Ashley are you a girlfriend or mom or something to one of the guys?
Your defending with all heart and no objectivity. Its a great quality and its great your so loyal and close, but it seems like your to close to e able to see the big picture.
Allen H

Yes Allen, I am the GF of Jake Rich. And Im sorry if you think I am not rational or listening to reason on this issue. But I can tell you, I have seen/dealt with more of this "big picture" than any of you at the show!! Because I have witnessed the changes in everything for the past 3 years. And believe me, from what I have heard and what I have seen since TransWorld, we have more quiet supporters than you can imagine. Its pretty bad when the politics of the haunt industry is getting just as bad as our real government. People to afraid to step up and voice out against others harsh criticism. So many people don't want to step on toes..... but then you got others who will spread lies amongst themselves to make them feel superior over others.

But I will say, I am happy to be with Dream Scape now, because I am finally able to bring my thoughts and ideas to the table and they are accepted with arms wide open and not shot down in 2 secs of me opening my mouth.

Ashley Whetsel
03-21-2011, 08:53 AM
Interesting for sure. Ashely I think you have a stake in this because your post is all one sided. I heard from several people and not Kevin why these guys were fired. Do I know the truth? NO will I ever know? Shane

Another reason why people shouldn't be spreading lies... If your sheepish enough to listen to someone who has no idea about whats going on.....why not head to the sources and ask questions?!?! just pretty random how bad some folks on here are willing to bash us.....all on hearsay!!!! And when it comes to stuff like this, check both sides before you start bashing a honest man and a good company. But I honestly dont believe you heard it from "several" people......because it can only go back to one of the sources....and it wasnt from our side!!!

mindtumor
03-21-2011, 10:04 AM
I met Jake Rich last year at the show. That sucks he doesn't work for Gore Galore anymore, I really liked his style and thought he was a cool dude. He made a death knight for me last season and it turned out great. I look forward to seeing the new stuff he and his brother can do. Where is Dreamscape based out of?

Nightgore
03-21-2011, 10:43 AM
Dreamscape is based out of Hartford, KY. -Tyler

Ashley Whetsel
03-21-2011, 10:47 AM
I met Jake Rich last year at the show. That sucks he doesn't work for Gore Galore anymore, I really liked his style and thought he was a cool dude. He made a death knight for me last season and it turned out great. I look forward to seeing the new stuff he and his brother can do. Where is Dreamscape based out of?

Thank you for the interest in his work!! And if I am not mistaken, thats the Deth Knight I had to construct during the summer!! We had 2 on order....so I am sure one was for you! Glad you enjoyed. Keep an eye out for more interesting stuff from Dream Scape and from The Brothers Rich FX!

http://thebrothersrichfx.com/
http://dream-scapestudios.com/index.php

mindtumor
03-21-2011, 12:57 PM
Thank you for the interest in his work!! And if I am not mistaken, thats the Deth Knight I had to construct during the summer!! We had 2 on order....so I am sure one was for you! Glad you enjoyed. Keep an eye out for more interesting stuff from Dream Scape and from The Brothers Rich FX!

http://thebrothersrichfx.com/
http://dream-scapestudios.com/index.php

It could be. I know I talked to him about some horns on the phone so I just assumed he did it. I look forward to more stuff from him. Tell him hi.

graystone
03-21-2011, 04:21 PM
Another reason why people shouldn't be spreading lies... If your sheepish enough to listen to someone who has no idea about whats going on.....why not head to the sources and ask questions?!?! just pretty random how bad some folks on here are willing to bash us.....all on hearsay!!!! And when it comes to stuff like this, check both sides before you start bashing a honest man and a good company. But I honestly dont believe you heard it from "several" people......because it can only go back to one of the sources....and it wasnt from our side!!!

Ashley do your homework I am not some Joe Blow who runs his mouth! When I tell you I heard it from several people you can take it to the bank I have no reason to lie or misdirect anyone. What you see is what you get with me whether it be here in in person. I stand my own ground and speak only whats been told to me. I am not someones shadow nor am I a person who sits and watches people just for the hell of it. Personally I will say tell these guys to come up with something us buyers would like to buy. The word I am looking for is "Origional" and something none of us have seen that's what will make you a success. If they are as creavite as you say then tell the to PROVE IT AND SHOW US SOMETHING DIFFERENT! A knock off is just that and it only shows that someone sit and studied something someone else did and ran with it. Does it happen? Yes will a company who walkes in the footsteps of another companies work survive? NO! The will come and go like the wind.

Right now they have a cloud over them and your not helping. They should be working on making this company something totally different than what anyone else has. Go back and do your homework and see how many copy cats are still vending in this Industry anyone that copies lacks talent. Again there will be companies that come out with similar things but you hardly ever see a company totally rip off another company. Again does it happen? Yes but are they around for the long haul? Hardly ever. Hell show me something origional that's not a copy and you will see where Shane spends his money. Shane and it's forget about the other side of the story and move on to something no one has seen! Shane

Fear At Its Best
03-21-2011, 08:02 PM
Your point is taken and we will continue with or without your support, your idea of how this industry works is changing. Its growing with sales that exceed Christmas and many outsiders are taking note and each year you are going to see more of this. We too have our own loyal customer base from haunters to theme parks and you can bank on the fact that they will continue to buy from us no matter what your opinion may be. Our customer service is of high standards and when we have had a problem we strive to correct it no matter what. Your just a penny in the bucket and if you never buy from us so be it, some one else will tomorrow! May your thoughts and concerns lead you to pick on someone else that takes an idea and makes it better, looks like you'll be busy for the next couple years.

graystone
03-21-2011, 08:53 PM
I will leave it at this. Time will tell and sadly people talk. If you try something different sales will grow and employees will be happy and not talk.

I am gonna bow out here as I have made my case. Many don't post here but if they did they would be here saying very much the same as I have. Both buyers and vendors. How do I know this? Through email, text, and calls. I wish you the best and hopefully your morals will come full circle. Money is the root of all evil for sure. I would just say this and I am done with this discussion as your not going to change my mind no more than I will yours but ask yourself this. If you love this Industry as much as I do is it really worth it? Good Luck with what ever the future holds. Shane and it's a promis of a bonus is just that good sales or bad! Shane