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drfrightner
03-28-2007, 11:12 AM
Someone asked if anyone had pictures of Screamworks... so I uploaded them and added some comments.

Here ya go... you tell me what you think.

http://www.hauntworld.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=71

Larry

MDKing
03-28-2007, 12:12 PM
Hey Larry, is that YOU in that hockey mask? :D

creature
03-28-2007, 08:43 PM
LArry, I have to thank you...you gave me a great tour of that fine attraction!!!!


-Tim

Jim Warfield
03-28-2007, 09:28 PM
Tim, Don't forget to send payment for the tour. Larry uses the honor system, just pay what you feel it was worth. Pay more if you got scared.
(Of course it was a "lights on" tour, so if this scared you...what might this mean?)

Rich Hanf
03-29-2007, 07:40 PM
After looking at these pictures I now I understand why LP didn't attend Terror on the Fox and the Frozen Tundra Tour. He was embarrassed by his work compared to what those Bad Boyz do.

damon carson
03-29-2007, 11:01 PM
Ya some of those scenes were really bad! I dont really understand some of them. God were they just rushed or thrown in to fill it in or what. I've seen rooms with masks on the walls and stuff but these were really bad.
Sorry not much creativity goin on there.
Damon

Infoamtek
03-29-2007, 11:04 PM
It's your kind of remark, Mr Hanf, that keeps people from thinking that the Haunt Industry is an organization of professionals. (edited for clarity)

Rich Hanf
03-30-2007, 06:19 AM
So Sandi...let me get this straight. To put on a show that is clearly ametuerish...a show that unqusetionably rips people off with useless , outdated, and just plain "lame" scares with no imagination, planning, or creativity...a show that "eats a lot of "terrortory" as customers leave feeling that if they have seen one bad show they have seen them all.....a show that is obviously dangerous (see the chain on the floor scare) which perpetuates the lie that all haunts are dangerous.....and had the end result of the owners going broke and auctioning off their shows for pennies on the dollar.....a personal tragedy for these guys..................all this is ok but to say negative things about it gives the people the impression that we are not professional???

Let's try it this way.....how about you do your part to rid the industry of crap like this so people walk away having had a positive with their chosen show...and I'll say nothing but good things about it because it is professional, creative, and safe. Seems to me you are worried about looking professional while I'm worried about BEING professional. If you don't want us addressing these issues on an industry message board....where then? Rich Hanf

Infoamtek
03-30-2007, 08:37 AM
Mr Hanf,

The problem is your remark did not address ANY issues. It was just a snide, cutting little statement designed ONLY to demean the person mentioned. It's the kind of remark one would expect on the schoolground, not among mature adults. And in your reply, instead of taking responsibility for what you said, you attempt to shift blame to me, as though I am the one wrong for taking you to task. So I ask, try to keep the discourse civil, discuss the issues, and not engage in ad hominum remarks.

beardedbil
03-30-2007, 08:55 AM
I would be curious how many people have an attraction on par with Halloween productions, eerie productions, bad boys, or the like... I would say many people on this board who run an attraction do what they can with what they have. Not to say you should make an unsafe attraction, however some people just don't have the monetary means of making an attraction like some of the mentioned above... Does that make us any less professional? I think everyone here tries to present a quality show to our customers... However some are just more creative then others. Its one thing to be unsafe but another to say because a show isn't on par with certain attractions, especially ones that cost 100's of thousands of dollars, is a little unfair... I know many in my area that are neat smaller attractions that don't come close in detail to others, but again they do what they can, and I would call them professional. Any thoughts?

lurker
03-30-2007, 12:43 PM
I love making props, and detailing the sets of my haunted house. For me, it is one of the best parts of haunting. However, Iím well aware that a great looking haunt is only a small part of making a great haunted house. You can have the greatest looking show on the planet, but in the end it is the acting that counts. I bet I could set up a haunted house that had all white walls and dark hallways, run it with 10 great actors, and still have a show that people would remember. People get bombarded every day with cool visuals. America is an eye candy wonderland, from amusement parks to the mall. Cool visuals are so commonplace they donít stick in our memory for long. However, how often do we encounter walking/talking ghouls, ghosts, and monsters in the real world?
What Iím trying to get at is that if you are going to shell out $40,000 for the stage, you better make sure the play and the actors measure up, cause when it is all said and done a haunted house is just wood and paint.

Jolly Pumpkin
03-30-2007, 02:36 PM
My thoughts exactly. Good actors are the backbone of a haunt. You can have an amazing looking haunt with thousands of dollars worth of animatronics and set pieces, but when it comes down to it great actors are what sells the scene. A quality built animatronic can last years, but a good actor will leave an impression for a lifetime.

ClusterOne
03-30-2007, 08:29 PM
Oh goody, another LP bashing thread...I wonder when Mr Hanf will join in on this....oh, never mind, there he is...
Seriously, can we please stop this crap flinging?!? It was old like 10 years ago...
Yes the haunt looks below average, I mean it doesn't take much money to spray some spider webs around or paint some blood/grime drips on the walls, add a little something.
But I bet that more then half of the haunts in this country look like this, I know I have seen my share! Yet it so obvious when a LP spanking is about to begin...it's pretty sad.

=Joel=

Rich Hanf
03-31-2007, 06:34 AM
Hey guys.....I have to say right off that I agree with most of you. Sandi...don't know why you are so staunchly in LP corner but that's your right...no problem. The comment was not specifically designed to demean LP as you suggest, but rather to shed a different light on the subject. The biggest problems I have found with YOU Leonard lovers is a nasty case of the "Emperors New Clothes syndrome". You see, you can't have it both ways. What Leonard is good at...in fact best at is promoting himself.
You can't go around saying you are the best thing to ever happen to this industry, you are the Godfather of this industry etc and then put out a product like the one we've seen here. What you people never seem willing to address is the "where the rubber meets the road" factor...cause when it comes down to it there may be smoke where he is concerned but in my opinion, there is rarely, if ever, actual fire.
So, why is that important? Well, in my opinion...and it's only my opinion...it is important to point out obvious differences in self promotion vs ability because of exactly what happened here in Screamworks.
Tell me, having seen this show with it's lack of anything of substance, would any of you had bought it for the many thousands these guys paid for it? Or, if you were their consultants...what would your advise to them have been? Or...if they came to you after the fact, what would your predictions for a successful show have been. BE HONEST NOW!!!

I know the answers already...if you are honest and decent people who aren't interested in screwing your fellow haunter. You can't nave it both ways. If you proclaim to be the best then you have to produce the best product...and have your clients best interest at heart...and spend their money like it was your own.

Perhaps, just perhaps had these poor guys read something by me, or Larry, or Rich Strtelack...something that made them say "wow...this guy claims to be the best...and is charging us a lot of maoney for these shows...but he closed his doors in Salem".....could they have thought it might have been a good idea to wait...to shop around a little more...to talk to some other people? Perhaps they could have gotten a real expert in there...someone who was experienced in actually doing shows, risking their own money, someone who could have advised them and really helped them. All I'm saying is WHAT IF?
These poor people are wiped out now. Done, personal tradegy. That hurts me...how about you guys? I'm not saying Leonard was responsible BUT...if you were a paying customer and you saw a show like that...and then went to see Netherworld...what would YOUR word of mouth be about Screamworks? What would YOU be telling your friends? Anything good?
I doubt it...and so the word of mouth begins and so does the death of this show. Understand?

The problem with YOU PEOPLE are that you have been sucked in and now that you are "believers" you have too much of an emotional investment to stand tall and admit that you have fallen for the old "okey doke". You are following the pied piper and are saying the emperor looks great in his new cloths. You have the guts to attack me for pointing out the problems here but don't have what it takes to stand back and take a fresh look at what is really going on here. That's ok though because as the Stones once said..."Time is on My Side". More and more of you see the light all the time.

I hear he is involved in a new project...something like Terror in Orlando...but that name may not be 100% correct. Anybody want to make a betting mans wager on if that show will be successful or not? I think you know where I'll stand. My guess is that it will be just like the Atlanta show...and the Niagara Falls show as well. Didn't know about that one did you?
Yell all you want...still love you guys Rich

MDKing
03-31-2007, 06:51 AM
After reading this thread, I was thinking why doesn't someone try to get a representative from Screamworks on here to tell thier viewpoint. That way, whatever the case may be, you can hear it from the "horses mouth" so to speak. That way, none of the haunters in this thread could be cited as LP bashing if they are honest about the whole situation.


Also, about the Orlando haunt, are they open or what? Last time I was down there, several months ago, I noticed this haunt had adds in all the entertainment books and magazines promoting their haunt and it appeared to be open from the adds. We looked for and couldn't find it, and we called and got no answer, and I believe their answering machine was full. Must have been a lot of us calling for a while....


Allan

steve
03-31-2007, 07:21 AM
Terror in Orlando is a failure before it even opens.

They have been advertising their being open for several months, and as I walk up to their "location" right smack in the middle of I drive, what do I find.... not people working their asses off to get it open for the spring break tourists, but an empty looking room in a strip mall, next to a chinese food joint, with some blueprints on the floor, and a permit in the window for "haunted dreams".

Thats it.

That is Terror in Orlando.

Now Ive also noticed that if they ever DO open, one of the "haunts" will be called Mayhem Manor... Strange Coincidence? I think not.

Infoamtek
03-31-2007, 10:30 AM
Mr Hanf.

Apparently you misread what I said. I am NOT in anybody's corner in this. I am saying we should discuss the issues in a professional, mature manner and not engage in ad hominum attacks and name calling. Simple enough.

Now including everybody else!

This whole LK's vs LP's camps of infighting haunters is a load of nonsense. LISTEN UP!!! While you squabble and fight each other, there is a REAL ENEMY out there who will get rid of all but the big corporate haunts. This enemy is the state and local legislatures out there who are slowly legislating and regulating haunts out of business for "their own safety" and to fill their coffers with lots of fees. Look at what's happening in PA. You need to be licensed to run a haunt. How many local townships and counties have reinterpreted the code, now requiring haunt walls to be made of "inherently fireproof" materials? That means no flame retardent treated wood, just drywall with metal studs or metal walls only. How much longer will it be until the regulatory fees for opening a haunted attraction will run into the tens of thousands of dollars? You don't think it will happen. Get your heads out of the sand, it's already happening.

You want to stop this?

First, stop the infighting. ALL this does is divert precious time away from what really needs to be done. You don't have to be friends but at least be civil opponents, respecting each others opinions and work. After all, we are all Halloween and Haunted House fanatics with a common purpose. Scaring the crap out of the customers.
Secondly, start self policing. Folks, so far every haunt I've been to outside the state of California (and even some inside) have engaged in unsafe, if not even DANGEROUS practices. This has got to stop! "I didn't know" and "I coudn't afford to do that" are not acceptable answers. KNOW THE RULES! IAHA has made a good start with it's safety program. I hope they can keep it going, it's needed. You have to make sure your haunt is as safe as you can make it with only the illusion of danger. Get together with the other haunters/haunt owners in your area and help each other out in trying to make haunts safe. Safety is everybody's business.

I have more to say, but I'm going to step down from my soapbox now.

Nightgore
03-31-2007, 10:43 AM
"I can't afford that".... is a VERY ACCEPTABLE answer. If haunts/IAHA are wanting other haunts to be safer, they need to do something to help.

I don't run a haunt or anything but I do run a small business; and I know first hand that money needs to be spent in the "important" areas of business. This means that another aspect won't get as much attention as one...

If a haunt puts EVERYTHING into scenic design and advertising... then fireproofing may be little if none done at all!

That's just the way it is! -Tyler

Nightmaretony
03-31-2007, 10:52 AM
It is ismply sad fact today that the business end and the basics really does get overlooked inteh business of haunting.

One example i can make is Transworld Vegas several years ago, the seminars.

The makeup and prop making seminars were filled to overflowing.

I attended one seminar by Dennis Gorg, on marketing and promotions. Figure 5 party store owners and 3 haunters.

Pretty valuable, I figure I got 8 pages of notes and learned of untapped opportunities with charitabl tie ins I had presently available.



John said it best, IAHA has plenty of information towards safety from the safety guide to the JBCorn books. Membership is less than the cost of a single prop and the dividends of information and safety. When you think safety in your inherent design, it is MUCH cheaper and easier to design safety in in the first place instead of as a hasty retrofit after the fire and state marshalls crack down.

Infoamtek
03-31-2007, 11:45 AM
If you can't afford to run a haunt safely, you can't afford to run a haunt. Period!

beardedbil
03-31-2007, 12:21 PM
That's a great line about safety and i honestly agree with it, however its just not the case... People will run haunts that are unsafe and it will take either huge policing or many more accidents/deaths until unsafe haunts are no longer allowed to operate.

For instance there are about 3 haunts in my local area who use black plastic, unsafe wiring, and effects because its clear they can not afford anything else. And your perfectly correct, if they cant afford to be safe they shouldn't be able to open. However, the funniest thing is they are all government run... What i mean by this is they are all run by either townships or chamber of commerce, or the like. Because of this no fire marshall comes through their attraction, no one checks out if it is safe, it is just assumed they will be safe, which they never are.

Again because there are so many differences in state and local laws and how they are enforced, there will always be unsafe haunts operating and will continue to do so until either all haunts are shut down or something happens like permitting to make it so expensive to run one, that the unsafe ones just cant open monetary wise.

Jim Warfield
03-31-2007, 04:11 PM
You could have an entirely foam-padded haunt, yet people could still get terribly hurt when chased, they run, fall down on top of one another breaking bones by hitting other people's bones.

lurker
04-01-2007, 07:48 AM
Foam-padded haunt! Is that fire retardant foam?


I agree with Alan. I'd like to read an article or post by the owners of Screamworks on why they think they lost their ass in Atlanta.

Jim Warfield
04-01-2007, 10:35 AM
As Red Cross, they maybe never saw it coming or even now knows what hit them?
Sort of like the man or woman ignorant of their spouse running around on them, they are usually the LAST to know.

drfrightner
04-01-2007, 12:34 PM
In the case of Screamworks it was not safe... even if 99% of the attraction was safe, that doesn't make it safe it 1% wasn't safe. There was clearly some really dumb things done inside this haunt...

The two boards laying down in the middle of a room, with a 2 inch ledge for people to trip on was NOT safe. I talked to some guys from Netherworld who went there in September and that flat out said they tripped on those boards. So thats NOT safe.

The scene with the cellar doors with chains on the floor is NOT safe...if poeple can get their foot caught up in the chain, and or trip on these things on the floor thats NOT SAFE! Its really kinda stupid to think its somehow scary, while at the same time safe. It was neither!

For the msot part Screamworks was safe, most of the scenes didn't have hardly any props, so it would have been hard to trip over anything, or whatever. Its only a few things that where not safe... but those few things are serious accidents waiting to happen.

It wasn't like they're something you might overlook, its something I bet their own actors nearly tripped on nightly. You just can't things like this sitting in the middle of rooms for people to trip on.

I WILL SAY THE #! WAY PEOPLE GET HURT is tripping and falling!

Avoid ANYTHING that could cause someone to trip, fall, twist an anke, or whatever.

Larry

SomeThingInTheIce
04-01-2007, 03:36 PM
Larry, you are right about the number 1 way to get hurt is by triping or a fall. I read somewhere, it may have been on this board, not sure. That insurance is higher for haunted trails because of the uneven ground being a tripping hazard.

Matt Marich
04-01-2007, 08:35 PM
Kudos to the the LK vs. LP vs. RH Celebrity Deathmatch. Hmmm.,, an animated clay match, that sounds cool!

Anyway, to the point, when we opened Bedlam Manor here in Phoenix we were required to have a contractor license for upgrades to our building. In all we expended an additional $ 35,000.00 in unseen charges just to get opened. By the book, no slipping by with these turds but we wre the safest haunted house complete with high tek flourescent back-up lighting that exceeded the lumens rating. We had an electrical engineer submit plans to get us opened, four plan reviews later. Our emegency annunciator was 5k alone! We had to hire a licensed architect, six reviews later. We had to have disability ramps in steel and poured $ 4,000.00 worth of concrete to make the floor level exits to code. We had exterior battery back-up lighting to illuminate all exits and ramps. Upgrade permit fees were
$ 6,000.00, event operation fees were $ 5,000.00, Architect fees $ 3,500.00 Electrical Engineer $ 3,000.00. NY Fire sheild $ 4,000.00, and Electricians were $ 21,000.00.
Just think, we haven't included a snappy effect from Scarefactory yet or advertise. But damn we were safe!

drfrightner
04-02-2007, 02:02 AM
A clay celeb death match ... how about myself and Rich in tag team battle... in the other corner would be Leonard and ummmm... can't think of anyone but I'm sure he can find a partner. LOL

That would be funny for sure!

Let me say something here for the record, my beef with him isn't personal, its simply that I feel he pretends to be something he't not, for the purpose of making money for himself, while at the same time the only person who suffers are those who end up with bad advice.

When you go through Screamworks it was safe on one hand and not so safe on the other... some of the things inside just where not safe.


I will say Matt, that you're NOT alone in what you spent to make your haunt safe. I got stuck big time my first year with Darkness, they even made me put in a fence around the property, and tear down exterior stuff otherwise the building itself wouldn't pass some violations.

The first year is always the hardest no doubt... I think when I first built darkness we spent about 60,000.00 to pass inspection, and when we moved the darkness they stuck it to us twice as hard. I got so upset I had to call the head of the building division and nearly threaten a lawsuit.

It can get out of hand... there is only so much you can take before you lose it. I do think there are people out there who really don't want these attractions to open and then most are happy to work with you.

Its really a crap shoot!

But you have a safe haunt and thats all thats important!!!

You should be happy to know everytime you open your haunt is safe... good for you!

Larry

TheTalentedMrL
01-21-2008, 01:13 AM
You've got to be kidding me. This was auctioned off?....NO Comment.

screamsofnight
01-23-2008, 09:53 AM
hmmmmm.. doesent look like the best thought out place. I like the comments!

drfrightner
01-23-2008, 11:41 PM
If you looked you could view the photos of Screamworks in Atlanta. I was kinda in shock when I saw the place. It would rank in the top 5 worst events I've ever seen when you consider how much money they invested. Meaning I guess I've seen worse but some of those attractions where built for $2,500.00 but this place cost these guys 3 hundred or more thousand dollars.

I don't mean to slam the event, but man o man, it just goes to show that if you're going to spend that kind of money DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST!

There are tons of videos, books and more to buy, seminars everywhere and you can learn alot on these forums. They took the WRONG approach and trusted one person who sold them a bunch of really outdated attractions for way too much money in a market where Netherworld had set a standard sooooo high that it would be almost impossible to reach.

Lessons learned.

Larry