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overlord
07-27-2011, 02:29 AM
Ok, so we are attempting our first facade this year. Biggest issue we ran into was, we found some really affordable foam insulation. Here's the problem: It's 3 in thick. My question I guess, is we are looking for a way to attach these panels to pallets (they are 2x4 panels 3 in thick). Hubby seems to think liquid nails will do it, but I am not sure that it would work and also, how much liquid nails are we going to need? Any suggestions or advice for all you experienced in this area would be greatly appreciated! Also, what do we need to seal the foam with (if anything?). Thanks again!

Wendy

MournfulManor
07-27-2011, 08:06 AM
I second that question! We just built an 8'X20' stone wall facade out of styrofoam this past weekend, but I'm looking for a way to protect it and hopefully give it a clear hard plastic-like surface. Would polyurathane work? Are there suggestions?

Greg Chrise
07-27-2011, 11:35 PM
Unfortunately regular liquid nails eats into styrofaom a bit. They make a liquid nails tube specifically for styrofoam. Cheaper alternative can be elmers glue, exterior carpenters glue, or tubes of acrylic caulk with ample time to dry. They do sell a styrofoam caulk/glue but I have not found it cheap or in larger tubes. It is almost a mixture of acrylic caulk and white elmers glue.

For a clear coat there is acrylic H&C concrete sealer available at Sherwin Williams and many other paint stores, not at Home Depot or Lowes anymore. 2 part Polyurethane when it cures heats up to 115 degrees which also deforms your styrofoam surface unless you have painted it first with some acyrlic or latex exterior paints then on the polyurethane. Many polyurethanes are one can solvent base products. They can be used but only with a good heavy latex or acrylic barrier to keep it out of the styrofoam.

Some effects can be done by intentionally sealing some sections and leaving other details to be intentionally eaten away.

jakprintsHAUNT
07-28-2011, 12:59 AM
From a couple projects I have done, liquid nails (polyurethane based) worked decently on foam, especially if it was coated over for stability. We also put several half sunk screws all over the base for something for it to anchor on that the foam was pushed onto with nice gobs of liquid nails on each screw. The largest piece we built were lips 10ft tall 2 foot wide, and 2 foot deep for a clown facade entrance (the head was made of 2 part hard poly foam). The lips were actually made from foam stacked upon itself glued together with poly liquid nails, glued onto reinforced luan panels sculpted down to the rounded lip shape then coated with a 2 part hard coat and painted. Those were built close to 7 years ago and still going strong used outside for the entire season every year. We have had to make a couple repairs due to rowdy customers kicking it hard and cracking the coating, then other customers picking at the broken part (has only happened twice)...but all we did to repair was saw out the affected area, glue more foam in the same way, then coat and match the paint again...just like new.

However a great idea that I learned in one of Tattoo's seminars last year was to glue your foam with liquid nails or gorilla glue, then screw it down with screws and large washers to basically keep it compressed while setting up/drying. If you can work the screws/washers into your design and/or cover with coating or other foam, it would probably be most optimal just to leave them on just in case it does start to separate at some point there is a secondary anchoring system.

Hope this info helps some.

Mike "Pogo" Hach

Dr Spooktakular
07-28-2011, 01:03 AM
I've done a lot of haunt foam work, so here's my input.

1. I attach foam to wood using 3" screws through a #10 fender, works great, allows you to remove, move, remodel walls with ease and stops from permanent attachment.
2. Liquid nails for foam works, but over time, I've found that it will also slightly begin to eat the styrofoam.
3. Use no spray adhesive, it all eats foam, even if it says it's foam worthy, there is a spray foam from grainger (#76, or #78 can't remember for sure), it does work but you have to use a ton, its messy and its like $15-$20 a can.
4. The best glue adhesive I find to be super strong and great with foam is Gorilla Glue, but again, very expensive, but if its a permanent wall, this is the way to go.

I know the foam is 3" thick, there are specialty screws I believe that are 3 1/2 and 4' long, if you can find these, I would go this route with fender washers, never screw directly to the foam screw only, it will come down easily and tear the foam up. You could always drill deeper into the foam even with the washer and create a hole in the foam an inch or so, then just figure out a way to detail/distress the facade with something and cover the indentions up this way you can use a 3" screw with a washer (50lb bucket of 3" screws is like $59 at HD).

Anyhow, this is my two cents worth after doing walls, facade, and props out of styrofoam.

Jim Warfield
07-28-2011, 09:15 PM
The cowgirl model was "hot"! (25 years ago) on the tube.
I glued alot of wood together that really had to be perminent, but alas, alak about 18 years later I could pull those pieces of wood apart with my bare hands which upset me making me question how strong this item was going to be afterall?
I have spent alot of money buying fender washers here but it sure does seem to hold flimsey things together making them seem much thicker, stronger.(Not a technique to repair undies!)

Greg Chrise
07-30-2011, 10:40 PM
Sounds like the best solution is to paint the back with acrylic or latex so the glue or liquid nails has something to stick to without eating into the foam.

icandrawem2
07-31-2011, 12:16 AM
The 3M Scotchweld 78 spray adhesive is the absolute best Ive ever used on EPS foam. Ive never tried it on the extruded polystyrene (pink and blue foam) but im sure it would work just as well as long as you remove the plastic film. It isnt cheap like Dr Spooktacular said, but you can get it in a 30lb canister with an applicator gun...always cheaper in bulk.

Greg Chrise
07-31-2011, 12:37 PM
Putting Flat stuff on pallets, where every board if kind of wonkey plus or minus an eighth of an inch needs big blobs of stuff. The spray adhesive #78 doesn't last very long before it becomes brittle and comes apart. Just look at all the cars driving around with the head liners hanging down, cloth onto styrofoam shapes equals funk in your hair after a certain time.

But, if this is to be done cheaper, and you want to spary mass quantities of glue, you can get gallons of contact cement and blow it through an air paint sprayer. I saw this at a production auto upolstery shop.

I would still want large beads or blobs 3/8 of an inch thick and smush them into contact with screws and washers.

Greg Chrise
07-31-2011, 12:40 PM
The cowgirl model was "hot"! (25 years ago) on the tube.
I glued alot of wood together that really had to be perminent, but alas, alak about 18 years later I could pull those pieces of wood apart with my bare hands which upset me making me question how strong this item was going to be afterall?
I have spent alot of money buying fender washers here but it sure does seem to hold flimsey things together making them seem much thicker, stronger.(Not a technique to repair undies!)

You know by now that cowgirl is all menopausal and has crazy mood swings and stuff.

icandrawem2
07-31-2011, 07:13 PM
But, if this is to be done cheaper, and you want to spary mass quantities of glue, you can get gallons of contact cement and blow it through an air paint sprayer. I saw this at a production auto upolstery shop.

Hm...I like this, never tried it. To clarify what I said about the #78, for bonding foam to foam it is the best Ive used (Ive seen that the bond is actually stronger than the foam)...there are certainly other products to bond foam to wood or what have you.

Jim Warfield
07-31-2011, 07:20 PM
Seeking that pefect bucking bronc? Gave up on demuir quarter horses long ago.
Rope him, quickly tie three legs together, jump up, stop the clock!
Having to tie three legs when one of them is so much shorter takes hours and hours of practise.

Greg Chrise
07-31-2011, 09:46 PM
I would say the spray gun would be trashed and only good for that one product but the old style canister ones are garage sale or flea market finds. Back in the day I actually used a canister spray gun and air compressor to spray latex paint on tombstones and it came out kind of textury. Very nice. You aren't supposed to do that but you can. The contact cement would similarly not come out quickly and lets you slowly put a thick coat on about 12 mils.

With contact glue/cement you let each piece tack up a bit and then smush them together. Probably no need to use screws at all if you are patient and allow the glue to cure a bit and get real sticky. I think it is pretty cheap compared to aerosol cans of stuff that would only cover so many square feet. I would guess about 200 SF per gallon or per can only about 20 SF. It has been years since I have priced this stuff.

Greg Chrise
07-31-2011, 09:48 PM
I'm not sure I will ever go to a hog leg competition. Too much hooping and hollering.

But then, how do you come up with a name like Fog Horn Leg Horn?

wipp
07-31-2011, 11:17 PM
here is a link for what u need. i cant live without my foam gun. this adhesive has kept a foam cinderblock wall in my cemetery bonded to wood for 6 yrs and counting. also its outdoors http://cgi.ebay.com/Great-Stuff-Wall-Floor-Adhesive-6-Foam-gun-cleaner-/200604806845?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb4fa6ebd

Scenic Art Productions
08-01-2011, 09:51 PM
Hello,
I have been building Theatrical props & sets, themed environments, and signage for many years. I have used foam for building sets, signage and have also done architectural details on buildings. There are two products to do this. One is an adhesive that is in a tube you use in a caulk gun it is PL Premium Construction Adhesive. I have used this for years and it has never failed me the trick is it takes some time to dry so you will need to clamp or screw the item onto your substrate until the adhesive sets. This product can be found at The Home Depot and Lowe’s.
The other item is harder to get but not as good for gluing foam onto other materials but great for gluing foam to foam. It is called Enerfoam. It is harder to get unless you are in the construction business. You can use “The Great Stuff” for windows and doors but this expands to much so use just a little. Practice a few times before you use it on your actual project. “The Great Stuff” can be bought at The Home Depot and Lowe’s.
As for applying a hard coat to your project I use a polyurethane hardcoat it is great but expensive. If you are a professional haunted attraction I recommend it. The only problem is you will need someone to spray it for you. The equipment is expensive and very touchy. As for a cheaper option you can use stucco. It is not as hard but it will help keep it in one piece a little longer. I use both on my projects that are to represent a stone or cement like material.
I hope this has been helpfull and I am not too late on this conversation. Please let me know what you use and if it worked for you. I would love to see how your project turned out.

Happy Building,
Robert Travis
Scenic Art Productions
ScenicArtProductions@Yahoo.COM

overlord
08-02-2011, 03:04 AM
We haven't completely decided which route we are going, we spent all weekend routing and painting, so we still have a little ways to go before actual construction, but when all is finished, I will definitely post pics and what we did to mount it. Thank so much again for all the fabulous input!