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jason
04-16-2007, 05:47 PM
if you know that your actor(s) or other staff members use drugs on their off time. do you still keep them around?

wipp
04-16-2007, 05:56 PM
as long as they share

jason
04-16-2007, 06:21 PM
as long as they share :roll: :roll:

MDKing
04-16-2007, 07:02 PM
Generally, we don't. Drug use in most of our eyes is for losers and we try to make our haunt as positive as possible. I'm sure there are a few but as long as we don't see or hear about it we will keep them. It's really important trying to have a good image to your staff and more importantly to your guests and create a positive atmosphere, and destroying your mind and body has no positives from what I can see.


My opinions,

Allan

Mr. Haunt
04-16-2007, 07:02 PM
Jason, that is a good question. It's a hard one to answer. I would say no go. If they were to get busted in or around your haunt, this could make you look bad.

Brian

Duke of Darkness
04-16-2007, 07:32 PM
This can be a touchy subject. If we have conclusive evidence of drug use, on or off site, then they are gone. We will not cut someone use due to rumor. Especially if you use teens in the haunt, you need parents to know that the place is safe and has responsible supervision. If rumors of drug use at the haunt start going around (and you may not hear about it if they do), parents, as well as potential customers, will be concerned.

Dave

wipp
04-16-2007, 08:02 PM
well seriously tho,how can you stop somone from doing something on their own time?especially when your help is a volunteer.even if you were to pay them,you only use actors once a year for a month.i highly doubt you should pry into someones life for a month of free or underpaid labor.if i were to see it,or know he/she is high then i would dismiss them.but other than that i wouldnt even ask because its truly none of my bisiness

Jim Warfield
04-17-2007, 07:42 AM
"OK, let's see, you worked 47 hours for me @ $7.oo per/hour, so with withholding for the Haunted House Owner's Retirement Fund, here's your check for $2.35."
"Duh? I thought I would be getting alittle bit more than that?"
"Well, run it through your drug-induced lack of mental capacity again and you will see that I'm figuring it right."
"OK."

Drugs-Make then "work" for you.

I saw the "Faces Of Meth" poster yesterday. It has photos of people from beginning their habit to the ending of their lives a few years later, WOW!
Talk about creepy, deadly looking Zombies!
Very stupid, very sad.

wipp
04-17-2007, 10:32 PM
here ya go jim http://www.drugfree.org/Portal/DrugIssue/MethResources/faces/photo_12.html

jason
04-18-2007, 01:26 PM
i really have no tolerence with drug users. thankfully, the haunt i work for has no tolerence for drugs as well. i hear and see particualr actors that make drug related comments to which it seems that's all they have in life..or as if that's the only way they can get a high in life and just makes me rool my eyes. THERE"S MORE TO LIFE PEOPLE!! :roll:

i could go on about such a topic but i'm not hear to preach. i'll just end my point by saying that there are much better things in life to do then waste money on drugs and alcohol. (this has been a public service announcment)

MMManiac
04-18-2007, 01:46 PM
We go for the dont ask dont tell policy. If you show up under the influence or we find any drugs on you at the haunt your gone. What our volunteers do on their own time is their business but at the same time we dont want it to negativily inpact the haunt.

Sean

redcrowdesign
04-18-2007, 02:49 PM
Meth isn't a popular drug in mexico, but I know a lot of people who smoke marijuana and do coke, and I must say, they are not safe to work with.
I was myself drowning in alcoholism when I was a teenager, because of all the troubles at home and school, and I wasn't a good worker.
Drugs turn a coworker into a ticking time-bomb, they steal money to buy their fix, they don't pay attention to work (that's dangerous if you are working with heavy weights or machinery) and they often can pass out/fall asleep at work, and many other things, I do not recomend to work with drugged persons under ANY circumstances. How do I know this? let's just say that I am a 'scum magnet' I don't even bother in going out of my house the weekends anymore.

If you have employees on drugs I'd say you fire them, but it wouldn't be fair for them, cause sometimes they aren't bad people, so the best you can do is to talk with them, let them know you have an eye on them and give them another chance, you know: "quit the drugs or leave my property" if they keep drugging then just get rid of them, if you see they remain clean for quite some time then give them rewards (money, gifts, food... whatever) if you see an employee drugging at work or comming drugged to work then just fire them.

Ken Spriggs
04-20-2007, 08:22 AM
Wow some strong feelings toward drugs.....

I do them every day of my life! Yep 1 pill for my high blood pressure to keep me from exploding and 1 for my stomach to keep the acid at a minimum....stress it does a body good!

Now.....all the people who say no fire them.......I have a question
Do you drink booze? Beer or anything like it?
That also at one time in this USA was frowned upon by alot of people.
It was also illegal.

Does it really matter if Joey smoked a joint 3 days ago? NO it doesn't effect me
Does it really matter if Joey smokes a joint at your haunt? Oh YES he could be stupid trip fall and smash his face in or a customer...hell yes it matters.

If we find someone at our haunt doing drugs or drinking we usually send them home(only happened 2 times). We are not the police nor are we perfect so we can't be judge and jury. People make mistakes, people make bad choices....we all have we all WILL. There is only 1 time in life you will be judged and I can only hope that when my time comes they have a sense of humor.

MDKing
04-20-2007, 09:06 AM
I hear you Ken, but sometimes you have to make a point. I don't do drugs, drink alcohol, it's all a waste of time, money, and good health to me. My haunt is my business and if you want people to believe in the goals of the haunt they too should adapt to the rules. I'd rather be a leader and set a positive example if there an opportunity to do so, I feel running my haunt is an opprtunity to do just that. A lot of the younger actors look up to those older ones. You can do more for people while running a haunt than employing them and giving them something to do to kill time, you can help or inspire them too.
Allan

Rachel
04-20-2007, 09:07 AM
I agree with a lot of Ken's points.

This thread seems to fail to make distinctions between different types of drug use - I know a lot of stoners - they in no way let it dictate their life. They are normal people. You need to realize that many people won't admit their extra curricular activities to people who are walking DARE billboards. I think there is a big distinction between someone who smokes pot and someone who does meth or shoots heroine. It's not fair, in my opinion, to lump them all together. Pot is legal for medicinal purposes and in Amsterdam afterall...I hate the stereotypes.

You also need to realize that recreational drug use (yes, I believe there is a difference between a habitual user and a recreational user) is everywhere. It's not limited to an age group or a profession. I know a lot of high ranking professionals that may smoke up. Do I think it impacts their work or makes them less of a person? No. I personally like martinis and I feel like as long as I'm not sipping on them while I'm working (at a haunt or otherwise) then that's my right. It's all about moderation and timing. I don't think your haunt actors should be in their scene doing drugs or drinking but what they do in their own time is their business.

I would imagine a bigger problem in haunts is those underage teens getting their hands on cigarettes during "breaks." You can't be everywhere....

At any rate, we all have our addictions (they may be perfectly legal too - caffeine - exercise - work - whatever) and indiscretions. I think morals are subjective - Live and let live.


How ironic that I'm posting this reply 4/20.... :idea:

travis.magee
04-20-2007, 09:37 AM
Ive worked for an advertising agency here in Dallas a few years ago and I must say the owners and a handful of other top people would smoke out in the photography studio before they went home everyday after work. They were very normal, ambitious, and professional who did show up at work everyday and made a succesful living for themselves.

Oh the otherhand, ive personally had some very close friends who smoked out daily and I saw how it changed them for the worst. They had good jobs and were fun to be around before they started smoking. They ended up not being able to hold a job and were boring to hang out with because all they wanted to do was smoke weed everyday. Get stoned and be couch potatoes. I eventually stopped hanging around them because of this. They were the perfect poster child for a "so no to weed" commercial.

Ive had my share of it too when I was young but overall I think recreational drug use effects people differently. Some let it control them, and some know when enough is enough. I think overall, just look past the drug issue and view them as a person. If they have all the qualities you are looking for then I would go for that other than their off duty drug use.

I would give them a chance as long as they didnt show up to work in that state of mind. I would make it VERY clear. Just use your best judgement. You can usually tell if someone has a problem with it.

MDKing
04-20-2007, 12:05 PM
Why make excuses? Pot is illegal, it is a drug, and causes long term problems for you. Why even do it, and better yet why accept it as casual drug use? Even a heroin addict can say they are a casual heroin addict, but they are still addicts, criminals, and outright losers. You get one shot at a short life on this planet, why corrupt it for a false high? Pot is no better or no worse than heroin, crack, meth, they are all harmful and all illegal.

If you kill someone by stabbing or hanging, are you no less a murderer if you butcher them or decapitate them or worse? No, of course not you are still a murderer in the eyes of everyone.

I am in no means lumping in legal drug use, for those who need medication to live a normal life, that was never a point of topic with anyone on this thread. I am all for that!


I knew some pot smokers, and I can't think of any who started smoking pot and didn't move on to something more dangerous. Why start, why complicate life more than it is? And as a business owner, why allow it when you can have like-minded people who were smart enough, strong enough, and enough of a leader to avoid doing it in the first place around you?


It's too big of a risk for me. I'd rather set an example and help people move away from that sort of lifestyle. We haunters have enough stereotypes surrounding us as it is, we don't need anyone associated with us who carries the lable of a junkie, pot smoker, or anything like that tied into our reputation, our business, and our standing in the community.

Allan

Nightmaretony
04-20-2007, 12:19 PM
The fun part is if you care for someone who is a pot smoker with no ambition or job. Tis a bear trying to help them out, find a job, have them work round your place, etc. Tis the individual ambition I guess that gets doomed.

Jim Warfield
04-20-2007, 12:34 PM
I was told about a talented (at one time , anyway?) man in the haunted supply business whose employees gave him a bumper sticker for Christmas that said:"My Other Car got sucked up my nose as white powder!" Or something like that, yes he did have that problem which kept finances tight for everyone associated with him.
From about the age of 5 people always were telling me I was "Different", later "Artistic" then came other words like "Crazy", "Nuts", so as a high schooler in the drug-induced 60's I stayed WAY CLEAR of drugs because I already was suspect because I was naturally wired "Different" than the accepted norm.
I really never wanted to share the credit with drugs for my own creative ideas.
Love them or hate them, they are my own thoughts, no smoke, no chemicals, so there! NAH, NAH!

redcrowdesign
04-20-2007, 12:50 PM
Wow some strong feelings toward drugs.....

I do them every day of my life! Yep 1 pill for my high blood pressure to keep me from exploding and 1 for my stomach to keep the acid at a minimum....stress it does a body good!


Those a prescription drugs, those are allowed, but I think that some are not safe to take during the day, for instance I have to take imipramine at night because my crapass day job is fricking irritating and I endup all neurotic afterwards and can't sleep at night. And that thing makes you drowsy, so if you take it at work you become a zombie... very useful if you play one as an actor at your haunt :p , but not recomendable if you have to do something else.

I have some really conservative toughts about drugs, if you do an anti-dopping test right now all you will find is light traces of imipramine (cause I take one pill at night, every day) and nicotine, nothing more... I take that one cause doctor said I need to to avoid pains and aches caused by stress (especially headache, backpain, and optic nerve pain) but besides that I don't even take aspirin for headache, I only take meds when my life or functionality is threatened.

travis.magee
04-20-2007, 01:25 PM
My father hired a guy at his shop not long ago who was a damn good machinist. He moved down here from Detroit and needed a job. (my father owns a machine shop). The guy worked there for about 2 months until he had to give everyone a random drug test. Turned out the new guy is a HEAVY cocain user. (when I say heavy i mean heavy!) He had a talk with the guy to get off of it or else hes fired. He even told him he was going to randomly test him again. The guy was very grateful and for the next month all he talked about was how this opportunity was the best thing in his life and how he has changed in his life around. He was soo thankful he had another chance. Well the day came to send him off to get tested. The guy said dont even bother because hes still been using. So, he had to let him go.

Nothing good comes out of drugs. Its sad to see someone with such a great talent in whatever he does go down the drain because of drug use.

MDKing
04-20-2007, 01:35 PM
You guys are all correct. I also respect Jim for what he says too, he wants the best for himself and his show and that's why he's so imaginitive, in a good and safe way.

Also Travis, you said it best whan you said Nothing good comes out of drugs!

Allan

lurker
04-20-2007, 05:38 PM
I know this topic has strayed on a little too long, but I have to pipe in (pun alert) here.
My day job is human resources, so I drug test people on a daily bases. I also supply temporary employees for local factories. I can say with 12 years of experience under my belt that I know for a fact that there is a clear distinction between addict and a causal drug user. I know people that have worked for years in factories, use pot and alcohol on the weekends, and are excellent employees. I have also seen pot, alcohol, and other various substance users that are basically pieces of dung. I wouldn't put them to work in a pie factory. The key difference is personal responsibility. I think it is just human nature to seek a little escapism. The problem lies in letting your escapism vacation become your reality. And, this is not just limited to drugs, but other flights of none reality such as tv, the internet, and lets not forget one of the latest, The Worlds of War-CRACK.
I cannot fault a man or woman that slaves away 40 plus hours a week in a mindless and repetitive job for seeking a little escape in their spare time. And, what form that takes is their own personal choice. However, when they are on my time they need to have their head in reality, and if they donít then they have a problem.
When it comes to the illegality of some things, I canít say I can hold that with a lot of regard. I canít really buy into what the government makes illegal, and what it deems legal. If they can continue to allow tobacco to be legal, A PROVEN KILLER, then itís pretty obvious that they are not looking out for the well being of the general public, but rather the well being of someoneís pocket book. Maybe Iím wrong, but most laws a long these lines are designed more with the economic good of some in mind, and with little regard for any greater social good.
However, when it comes to my haunt, just like in my day job, I expect people to keep their habits, escapes, and distractions away from my livelihood. That is just plain respectable, and if you donít have respect for the job you are doing, or the person that is providing that job then you have no right to be there. After you are done working I donít care if you go home and snort Spanish Fly and watch donkey sex shows. I personally love to roll naked in green Jell-O to escape (lol), thatís just me, but I make damned sure Iím ready to do my job when the time comes, and I expect that out of everyone that works for me.
This is just my humble opinion, and I respect everyone elseís on this matter.

ALittleFreaky
04-20-2007, 06:04 PM
This is just my opinion. I fully am aware you are speaking of illegal drugs here, I can't help but feel that one big reason people use these illegal drugs and other legal substances is because of their problems and stress. Life can be great, but life can also be very, very, difficult, dealing with things you never imagined you'd be dealing with. Everyone deals with things in a different way. Some people smoke pot, smoke use heavier drugs, some smoke cigarettes, some chew, some are compulsive shoppers, some people over eat, some people are plain rude and nasty to others in general, and the list can go on and on. While most of these things are legal, I'm just stating that they are all ways people cope. No one knows, who has been through what in their lives. We can all be guilty of pointing out other people's weaknesses, until we take a look at ourselves. I learned a long time ago, I am not perfect, and I can't expect all my family and friends to be either. When I was a teenager I will admit I used marijuana. I have not used it since and I'm 35. But,,,after some events in my life,,,, there are days when I think,,,wow I would love to get wasted, just to escape from reality, if only for a few hours. Do I? No. But does even thinking it make me a weak person? Maybe you think it does. I on the other hand think it makes me human. I can be a leader, I can be strong, but I can also be weak and vulnerable, depending on what life is handing me at the time. I try to no longer judge people on what they do on their own time,, remember there are some who admit no wrong doing,, only because we can't see what happens behind closed doors.

jason
04-20-2007, 06:53 PM
i must agree that there are great workers that do smoe sort'a drug (mainly it seems to tb eht pot smokers) and there are those that are not worthy of having a job. so yes, i know of two people that meets one or the other.

(catching onto soemthing that a little freaky mentioned) being mean to the general public is not really a way to releave stress..that's more of a psychological issue..well actually drug use can be that (in some cases) too.

brad
04-20-2007, 08:44 PM
To add my 2 cents- I have a no tolerance policy on this kind of subject. Now, I do not give a drug test to my employees when they are hired, but once I find out that someone is smoking or doing drugs, then they can kiss the privilage goodbye of working in my haunt.

MDKing
04-20-2007, 08:52 PM
Again, why make excuses? Whether or not these pot smokers "know their limits" and can still hold down jobs through the week, it doesn't change the fact that they are criminals for breaking the law, and weak for having to turn to drugs to take the edge off, or for falling victim to peer pressure when they were young. And about not being able to comment on what people's situations are and how bad they might have it, that personally that carries no weight to me. I grew up under conditions far worse than 99% of these junkies out there, trust me!!! You either resist and rise above or you fail and let yourself and those around you down.

I think I'll continue to keep the company of and work with people who stay away from drugs, or any other crutch that people use to deal with life. Sooner or later we all have to step up and hold ourselves accountable for our actions and decisions, and making excuses and accepting bad things as a part of life will have to stop. Also, Little freaky, I am not even pretending to be perfect. But ignoring the problem and accepting it makes me a part of the problem. I have moments of weakness as well, but I'm always stronger than having to turn to drugs or alcohol, that's what family and friends are for. To do drugs, for whatever reason, is weak! Man up and admit it!

Off my soapbox now....

Allan



Allan

lurker
04-20-2007, 10:43 PM
Yes, it is true. The use of anything to get by in life other than your own strength and will power is weak. Anything! And this most assuredly includes playing the game of moral-one-ups-manship, and self-righteous disdain. These too are crutches of the weak. But, do not threat, Iím sure some poet must have once waxed philosophical and observed that man is often defined by their weaknesses. I'm only assuming, but I think we are all still flesh and bone here.
Well, I think I have revealed a hidden weakness right hereÖ..Iím a freakiní libertarian Ö.or a preacher.
I need to fire my butt. Hand me that soapbox! Iím going to the street! I fill an old time sermon a coming on! :twisted:
God I need some green Jell-O! :wink:

Jim Warfield
04-20-2007, 11:12 PM
If that green Jello ends up being served in a school cafeteria you might get 10 years to life for such perversion.
Many years ago when I worked installing furnaces the radio announcer declared that "X" millions of people in this country smoke dope everyday!
I thought, "No way." I sure didn't think anyone I knew could have been doing this, they must be desperate to create a news story this day.
Then my Dad ordered 5 new furnaces. They were supposed to come pre-wired, just connect four wires , I connected those four wires. Nothing happened.
I opened the next electrical box in the furnace and all the wires were loose with a handfull of loose plastic wire nuts in the mix too!?
Every wire they used to wire that furnace was either white or red in color.
This stupidity helped not at all when I had to fix this screw-up.
Then one of the blower motors wouldn't run (brand new!) Someone had tightened the screws that pull the motor case together so hard that the bearings inside the motor couldn't turn!
I think I know where those dope smokers work.
Thanks for making my day busier and longer as I redo your job.
Know anything about repairing the brakes on my car?

Rachel
04-20-2007, 11:22 PM
We all have our own moral compass and we tend to project what we find acceptable and unacceptable to those around us. I consider myself a very laid back person and do not feel like I'm judgemental and because of that attitude people seem to feel comfortable confessing a multitude of "indisecretions" to me. It's not my place to lecture them or patronize them or think I'm better than them for their life choices. However, there are things that I do not tolerate - such as neglect /cruelty or disrespect to animals (this would include not taking the responsibility to spay or neuter your pet) or viewing a stray animals as "not your problem" when it shows up at your house. I also have no tolerance for gay bashing or racials slurs. People that are around me pick up on this quickly. Therefore, even though they may feel comfortable telling me about many things in their life they aren't going to tell me about surrendering their pet to the SPCA or the fact they refused to help the homeless kitty outside. Or if they believe gay people are going to heLl or some other crap. My point is, that you may think you have surrounded yourself with people that hold your same values. Not everyone will be completely honest about their life choices especially if they know your stance on things. I guarantee that all of you who proclaim you do not "associate" with people who use drugs do and just don't know it.

Let me play devil's advocate here - I'm not saying this is or isn't my opinion but I'll throw the arguement out there:

Some people are claiming drugs and (hey now we've even lumped a legal vice in there - alcohol) are "bad" and for "the weak" and a "crutch." Have you ever heard the same argument used for people who attend church? Again, not saying this is how I feel, but it's an arguement I hear frequently. Some say organized religion is "bad" because of wars fought over it or because of the scandals in certain churches. Again, "bad" and what makes people "weak" are so very subjective.

And lets talk legality here. It's illegal to speed - I'm sure we're all guilty of that one. Does it make you "immoral" becasue you broke the law or "weak"? No....we're human.

I am sitting here with a horrible cold and sudafed used to really kick some a$$ for me. Now thanks to the meth users sudafed has changed their formula and it sucks. So the government is regulating my sudafed purchases - ok, so I can't buy sudafed. However, the guy who shot 32 people at Tech LEGALLY purchased the flippin gun even though he had been involuntarily committed. Think about that one. You can't buy cold medicine here in VA - but by god it's your right to buy a semi automatic! As many as you want - no waiting period - bring your kids on down to the gun show! Yee haw. It's also illegal to kill someone - but if someone broke into my house and was attacking my family I'd kill someone in the name of protecting my family. (Although I'm not sure how as I don't own a gun - maybe I could beat them to death with my stripper pole :P )


Believe me, I had a stick up my butt for years. I didn't drink or smoke or do anything even remotely wrong. You have to be true to yourself above all - I'm not advocating everyone do drugs or feel the same way morally about everything. However, I think there is much more room for acceptance and tolerance vs judgement and condemnation. If you don't like drinking then fine, don't do it. Don't call people that do "weak" or "bad" - it's simply not fair or in my opinion accurate. I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect your actors shouldn't be drinking or doing drugs while at your haunt. It seems most people have agreed on that point. So now, we are once again just arguing over morals and what some people think is right and what some think is wrong.

Live and let live - I'm off to go take crappy, yet legal, cold medicine.

lurker
04-20-2007, 11:32 PM
Jim,

What happens between me and my Jell-O is very private. The only person I'm hurting is myself, and perhaps my neighbors if they happen to peak through my window late at night.
I don't know how many dope smokers are out there. I imagine the numbers are pretty high. But I'm pretty sure they are way out numbered by the straight up idiots that are out there. At least the dope smoker have the option of getting off the weed long enough to have a coherent thought. There isn't much the idiots can do to improve their condition. That's a 24/7 habit. Our only hope against the idiots is if they decide to take up dope. Maybe that will keep them off the street, and not building furnaces.

lurker
04-20-2007, 11:48 PM
Rachel

You take Sudafed? I should have known! You kids think you are so cool with your dirty talk and pill popping! That's it! You are out of the haunted house!
Forgive me. I have lost a good deal of my sanity during the past two weeks to "Way of the Wicked". Those guys need to be medicated.

MDKing
04-21-2007, 06:07 AM
Rachel,

I agree with you on most of what you said, especially for no tolerance for abuse on animals I myself contribute to such charities for animals.

But this line from your post is the clincher,

"Believe me, I had a stick up my butt for years. I didn't drink or smoke or do anything even remotely wrong."

This here is what I find annoying, and is why people feel the need to take up heavy drinking and drugs, to fit in. You make it sound like it's lame, or abnormal, or uncool to do the right thing. If you want to be cool and socially acceptable you have to smoke, drink, do drugs, and whatever else? Please! Now you're cool because you smoke and drink? Depends on who your circle is I guess...

It reminds me of a prior employer. On the topic of cocaine she said "Yeah, I gave it the college try" and "everyone who was cool did then". I'm sitting there thinking "What? This lady is the nerdiest and geekiest person I know". It's just funny how people twist the truth and will say and do anything to justify their actions.....

Rachel
04-21-2007, 07:51 AM
MDKing - you misinterpret my thought. I didn't have a "stick up my butt" because I didn't drink or smoke. I had a stick up my butt because I used to judge people who did chose to do those things. I didn't start drinking to "fit in" (I would have had to start years earlier at those frat parties). I started drinking because I discovered alcohol didn't have to come out of a trashcan or out of a cheap beer bottle. In other words, I discovered wines and liquors (when mixed) that tasted good and were enjoyable. I'm not downing the bottle of Nyquil to get my fix ok, I am a snob when it comes to alcohol and what I will drink. It would be hard for your to understand if you don't imbibe.

You keep talking about the "right" thing and in your world the "right" thing is not smoking or drinking or doing drugs. You have every right to feel that way, but let me be frank. The way you present your arguement and the way you talk about those "weak" and "bad" people and what is "right" makes you seem intolerant and unapproachable (and in my opinion a "moral know it all"). "Intolerant" and "Unapproachable" doesn't lend to creativing a positive environment. I question if someone in your circle ever had a problem if they would be able to come to you with out fearing your judgement.

For instance, if a son grows up with a father who thinks gays are a "freak of nature" and "unnatural" or whatever other crap people say and that son turns out to be gay is the son going to be able to tell his father with out shame or fear of judgment?

See, I'm not telling you to change your values. I'm telling you that your choice in language to describe people that you claim you don't know is unfair and unjust in a lot of cases and that makes you seem unapproachable. You can't pretend to know what is "right" for everyone. No one knows what is "right" for everyone.

Everyone has indiscretions - keep saying that - some are really careful to hide theirs. I think they worry they will be judged like they judge others.

Lurker - yes, I take sudafed - or I'd flippin like to! Meth must be some good stuff if the ingredient that used to make sudafed good is in it! Now I'm "Miss Snuffles" because the new decongestant sucks! right now, the only two rooms in the haunt I could work would be a "whisper" room or if we had like a phone sex scene (It's ok MDKing - we don't really have a phone sex scene - it's a joke). But I think I have a great low, raspy voice right now that would work well in a scene like that. And don't get excited and call, I make Pete answer the phone right now :D

MDKing
04-21-2007, 08:15 AM
We all get judged, we all need to be judged sometimes. To bring it all back to the discussion initiated in this tread, I'll only hire and work with people who refrain from drug use, and other unsavory practices. As a business owner, I have that right and I feel good about doing it that way.


Take care of that cold Rachel.

Allan

Rachel
04-21-2007, 09:43 AM
"unsavory practices"....hmmmm

Hey Lurker - I'm teaching an advanced lapdance class today. Is that unsavory? Am I fired? ;-)

That's great that many of you won't hire people who do drugs - certainly your right. Just keep in mind they aren't always so easy to spot and that there is such a thing as lying. Good luck.

wipp
04-21-2007, 10:55 AM
mdking,with all due respect,and not trying to anger you,you wrote"Pot is no better or no worse than heroin, crack, meth, they are all harmful and all illegal. "i think you need to do a little research.im not taking up for pot users by no means but a pot user dosnt rob his mother,or kill someone for 10 bucks like crack herion and meth.they dont become unfunctionable to society.let me ask you,is the doctor or biss owner that makes 300k a year and smokes pot at night a loser in your eyes?if you found out your son smokes is he then a loser?i posted this because you had such a bold oppinion and i feel you were way off.again not to make you mad

MDKing
04-21-2007, 11:26 AM
Wipp,

If I knew a doctor that used pot or if he was my doctor, I'd definitely report him and seek legal advise. And yes, the business guy is a loser and a criminal, because whether it's Pot or crack it's still illegal and bad for you, and everyone knows it. Doing it accidentally he would not be a loser, doing it knowing it's illegal and harmful you darn right he's a loser. There are drug dealers and pimps and mobsters who earn tons of money, that doesn't mean they are not losers anymore based on their earning potential. Also, I can personally show you some potheads that have become unfuctionable in society and serve as nothing more than a drain on society, and a disgrace to their family and friends.

Remember, your body is your temple, as it was spoken. Knowing the risks and still doing drugs, is just idiotic. What I'm saying is no different than what you would hear in a drug ad on TV, DARE programs, or any anti-drug discussion. I'm saying what anyone out there believes provided they stayed clear of drugs for themselves, or reformed from a destructive lifestyle and speaks about his/her experiences. Ask any former junkie, medical professional, or drug councillor, they'll say to you exactly what I'm saying. They don't make ads on TV and spend billions worldwide on stopping drug use because it's good for you. If you accept Pot as not so bad now, what's next? Before you know it cocaine and heroin and meth will be accepted as not so bad in light of a worse drug to come.

Rachel
04-21-2007, 11:58 AM
Consuming large quanities of fast food or processed foods is bad for you (legal)

Smoking cigarettes is harmful to your health (legal)

Staying out in the sun too much with out sunscreen is harmful to your body (legal)

I guess I'm more comfortable making my own opinions and decisions based upon my own thoughts and my own life experience vs letting the DARE ads and the government tell me what is or isn't good for me. (See lurker's comments on what is legal vs not legal).

Cannibis (pot) has been approved for certain medical uses. It's legal in Amsterdam. If it is so harmful and detrimental to our health then why would it be approved for medicinal purposes? I've never heard of meth or coke or heroine being used for medicinal purposes.

Jim Warfield
04-21-2007, 01:16 PM
A TV show once said there are something like 165 different chemicals in pot and to research the effects they have in various combinations upon the human body and mind would be almost impossible.
Pot as a hybred plant has alot more nasty brain cell destroying chemicals in it than it's "ditch-weed" cousin had during the 60's, TV also said.
After reading some of the posts here I thought back and I once knew a guy who smoked pot a few times a week and it didn't seem to effect him, the ONLY such person I ever knew like this.
I hadn't seen him in over twenty years, then a few years ago he found me here at my house, I thought it didn't effect him back then, he had a new Firebird, wore a suit to work , managed a nice little store for the owner of it ....
Then he appears here many years later driving a rusted out quivvering Toyota on it's last legs, car packed full of his clothes and worldly posessions, dressed like a bum, his last several jobs was washing dishes in a restaurant...maybe pot did have an effect on him afterall?
Your brain is the main receptor of the world around us, if it begins lying to you, what then? Most of these drugs do alot of lying to their users don't they.

Duke of Darkness
04-21-2007, 02:23 PM
Okay, I have held off jumping in here other than stating what I did as a business person but since the thread has taken this turn, I will contribute my two cents worth.

I grew up in a home dominated by drug use. It started with alcohol, moved to pot, and eventually to abusing and dealing harder drugs. I saw, first hand, what drugs do not only to the user, but to those around them-- most notably their families. Let me tell you, it was a living hell.

If you think "okay, but that was an isolated incident" you would be wrong. Years later I became a police officer. I can honestly say that there were very, very few cases of child abuse/neglect or domestic violence that did not involve drugs. In the vast majority of all calls that I responded to the perpetrator was high.

The fact that you can point of a few people who are able to smoke pot and still be productive members of society is not enough to overcome the enormous body of research and first hand accounts of the devastation that marijuana and other illicit drugs cause.

And Rachel -- just so you know -- your medical use argument does not hold water. Like most drugs, the use of Cannabis to treat certain disorders is the lesser of two evils. And while perhaps you haven't heard of it, many illicit drugs are or were used medicinally. Cocaine is used as a local anesthetic in certain surgeries. Heroine is basically a fast acting form of morphine, which is used in hospitals every day.

Am I judgmental about drug use? I suppose that I am, but I also try to be approachable. And I do have people approach me to talk about such issues. I have helped people get into detox/treatment centers, I have given them moral support as they tried to kick a drug habit, and I have not abandoned friends and family when they had a problem. That said, I will not be an enabler either. I most certainly will not tell them that what they are doing is okay.

Back to the original question, let me say as an attorney, that if you know that someone in your haunt is on drugs and they are involved with someone getting hurt (and accidents do happen in haunts, as we all know), whether drugs were at fault or not, you knowledge of their drug use will come back to haunt you. Mark my words.

Sorry, I usually only get on my haunt soapbox in here. I will now put this one back in the closet.

Dave

MDKing
04-21-2007, 03:39 PM
Thanks for chiming in Dave. I knew I couldn't be the only one on this board who thinks the way I do. I appreciate your insight, a police officer and attorney would have seen many extremes. Growing up in Baltimore's east side I saw too much myself. It's great to hear your perspective and what you speak of is the truth.

Allan

Rachel
04-21-2007, 04:49 PM
I agree - you certainly shouldn't think *MY* arguement holds "water" - I would rather see what scientific studies suggest:

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2000/03/01/cannabis000301.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15159679

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/1064462.stm

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6790

The lesser of the two evils how? Should we tell the person suffering from cancer or MS or fibromyalgia that they can't have access to a drug that might help them because "I knew a guy who smoked pot and now he isn't a productive member of society"

We all know someone who did something that had some outcome. I could tell you that I know people that smoke up and are school teachers, social workers, lawyers, cops (yes cops) etc etc who lead perfectly normal lives. My husband is a social worker - I used to be a social worker. Who cares? You have ever right not to want to "associate" with people who do drugs (I still say that you all do and just don't know it). My point is just because 5-6 people on this forum rant about the "evils" of alcohol and drugs doesnt' make what they say the "truth." It doesn't make what I say the "truth."

I'm sorry, I just think people are so incredibly arrogant to be so bold as to state their opinion and proclaim it as the "truth." We are human, we are not infallible.

Please, don't associate with people who do drugs, don't hire them, whatever makes your world happy. What makes my world happy is accepting that we don't live in a cookie cutter society and everyone is entitled to their own lifestyles. We all seem to forget as haunters that we aren't always shown in the most positive light either. It's not fair that because one haunted house had a pedophile working in it to assume that the "truth" about haunted houses is they are dangerous and have sex offenders working in them. Or that we worship the devil and promote mass murder or whatever other crap the media spews our way. We are haunters - we know that's not true - we know that through life experience. Isn't it frustrating when people who aren't in the haunting profession sit back and judge us and proclaim what the "truth" is?

The "truth" is subjective.

Greg Chrise
04-21-2007, 05:43 PM
Those of us here at the U.S.Department of Wild Imaginings do all of this with no drug abuse what so ever. We are on a coffee and cigarette bender perhaps. Maybe abusive consumption of pastry.

In 30 years of working so many places I can not believe the world still turns with all the substances everyone is on. I try to think maybe only 20% of the population is completely dysfunctional or involved in treatment but it is probably much higher.

I tend to find the "cool people" opt out of the haunted house in either acting or building as it is a lot of work and doesn't pay or if it does pay, not high enough to match sitting on someones couch and making it to the refrigerator occasionally. They just don't get it or certainly are not of a mindset to do anything for the greater good of any one unless there is something in it for them.

You don't want people even that think what a person does in private is their business, in your place of business (even temporary business) inventorying tools or props that could become souveniers for them or their freinds. You don't want their kind refering customers to you creating a hassle for your security.

Somehow drugs are equated to being creative? I have never found someone that was an abuser that was. Certainly they find the time to toil but, it is diminished creativity.

Something like a haunted house is an odd offering as it is and shouldn't be linked to any kind of substance tolerance or your towm bunches the event into the catagory of tattoo shops, adult book stores and exotic dance clubs. One or two individulas working your event will make the whole thing look like it is enabling such activity. Illegal activity.

Unfortunately it takes time to determine what kind of losers you have hired and in a seasonal haunt there might not be enough time to learn everyone's history. Luckily everyone is generally gone soon. In other businesses it is really bad as you have trained and have an investment in someone and find out they are bad and unproductive and sometimes have to put up with them until and adequate replacement is found.

Even people who used to be scandalous can haunt your current activities.

Duke of Darkness
04-21-2007, 06:43 PM
I wasn't going to comment further in this thread, but I feel the need to answer Rachel's question, in case I wasn't clear. I was not saying that cannabis had no medical uses. I was saying that your argument that it might have a legitimate medical use somehow made it different than cocaine or heroin.

What did I mean by lesser of two evils? I meant that, as is the case with many drugs, dealing with the effects of the drug is less evil than the effect of what it is used to treat. The same can be said of many medicinal treatments, as their are almost always some type of side effect. But the fact that it can be prescribed for glaucoma and a few other conditions does not, in any way, justify its recreational usage. That is all that I was saying.

**Stepping back into the darkness**

Rachel
04-21-2007, 06:50 PM
Everyday people make sweeping generalizations about people based on gender, sexual orientation, age, lifestyle, religion, etc etc

For example (not necessarily my opinions):

Jews are cheap.

Gay men know how to dress well.

Old people are cranky.

People who use drugs are a drain on society.

Blah blah blah <enter preferred stereotype here>

And you know, we probably all do know a Jewish person whose cheap, a gay man who dresses well, and older, cranky person and a drug user who is a drain on society. so what? it doesn't, it can't, always apply.

Maybe lurker has a point, maybe the problem isn't drugs, maybe the problem is there are too many idiots and ignorant people. Pair the idiots with the drugs = your stereotype of those who are a "drain" on society.

Pair the feeling of moral superiority and the feeling that only you know the truth and the way and you get someone like .... (thinking of a few historical figures here....fill in the blank).

I guess I need to go plug into the tube so I better understand the different sects of people I am surrounded by. I am sure the DARE program and the "war on drugs" campaign would be pleased that they effectively spread the message (although I imagine they spread the message to the choir, not exactly the audience they were seeking if you get my drift).

Jim Warfield
04-21-2007, 11:24 PM
One of the first big-time cocaine users was U. S. Grant, former president and Civil War general. It was a pain killer as cancer ate his mouth and he was trying to finish his personal book about the Civil War so his family could get the royalties from it and have an income, which he successfully accomplished before he died.
The book sold very well, and sustained his family after his death.

One of the first familys in town to get a TV had twin boys , both severely crippled and retarded . My Dad installed their TV antena and marveled at how TV gave these poor kids something to look at as they laid there helplessly.
Of course no one could know then how many healthy, normal people became cripples physically and mentally by watching way to much television over the next 50 years!
Does anybody else miss the old test patterns after sign-off?
I go again speaking in a lost language....."Ah! The old one is rambling again, put more Soma in his broth, that will give us a quieter night."

lurker
04-22-2007, 12:20 AM
It is my firm belief that if we still had test patterns on our TVs, at the end of the broadcast day, drug use would be cut in half and tolerance would be the order of the day. The way it is now it never ends. It goes on 24 hours a day. And when you got that much hardcore crap coming down the tube non-stop, us poor jumped up apes have no choice but to draw hard lines and do hard drugs. Our whole society is in a fight or flight stance, and it is all for want of a test pattern at the end of the day.
Move over Jim, Iím bellying up to the soma bar.