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terrormasue
06-07-2012, 01:37 PM
Has anyone done any advertising with FaceBook and if so do you bid on the impressions or the click throughs? Any help with this is greatly appreciated.
Is it worth it?


Thanks!

Sue

UnDeRTaKer313
06-07-2012, 08:09 PM
The goal is to big on pay per 1000 and try a bunch of different ads and see which one gives you the best return.
Cost per click is nice if you dont want to worry about ad designs but you will pay more.

Greg Chrise
06-07-2012, 10:50 PM
Let me see if I can do the math here. You set a budget of say $50 a day at 50 cents per click. 100 people clicked and were informed but only 1% to 2% will convert into getting off the chair and coming to your event and buy a ticket. So this brings you 1 to 2 customers that might bring an additional person. 4 ticket buyers cost $12.50 each. This might be grand if you were a dentist and all you had to do was charge everyone that walked in the door $140 for Xrays. Not so much when tickets are $15 or $20.

There are experiments going on now but it doesn't sound like they are doing much better than the internet every did percentage wise to bringing in customers. So you mimick these advertising methods with free traffic (trying to elaborate on the above gobbldy goop) You put Utoob videos, facebook posts, pictures on flicker, and any forum you can find. Every entry gets you a rencent Google or other search engine ranking. Rather than just the week before, you post things every day to keep the traffic potential up. Then when people see your fliers, your truck wrap, drive by your facade, hear about it as videos and pictures are shared, You have a much higher rate of return because at this point the customers are more likely to come, more to the tune of 10% will bother to attend and buy a ticket. The are already looking at other haunts or other similar topics and are qualified intrested customers you are funneling in.

Even posts on Hauntworld end up in search results so perhaps a picture once a week or once a month is not really enough. There are so many things to take pictures of that you already have and your signage, it just has to be a regular did you put something somewhere today routine. To actually make money on each 1000 clicks may or may not be worth the time. Real world figures so far seem to show a single haunt or persons posting with the best content ever is only worth maybe $5 a week. And to do so, you have to have excellent content ranking over a period of time and achieve the higher earning rate by demonstrating regular traffic. But then everything you do also has someone elses advertising in front of it and that most likely detracts from the 10% conversion rates. It is a trade off. Kind of making money off of the search engines because they aren't really coming to the haunt. In your case that isn't what is happening Sue, so it is an incredible waste of time and energy.

It is better to not look like you are advertising anything but your own event and get them at your haunt paying for a ticket. All done with regular every day posts, not necessarily all on one service. Like Monday might be facebook day. Tuesday might be Utube day, Wednesday might be put 4 photos on flicker, Thursday might be Tweet things day, Friday is tell Hauntworld what is happening, Saturday is Something else and so on. IN the bigger picture you have indeed put some content somewhere every single day without spamming or turning any one particular group off.

When they hear your radio ad a few times and can remember the haunt name, they might go directly to Utoob or vimeo to see if there was something there. Even if you put it on Hauntworld it will show up and they see 4 videos and a post about your radio ad and they are all the more excited. It was still not totally free because you invested an hour a day to meet this obligation but over the course of many weeks you might have 300 points of content to draw from that all lead back to your web site and directions.

Over the course of years this 300 points of content become 600, 900, 1200 and so on and at some point you are a household name and there is a tipping point in your community with your name and event being talked about, asked about, sought after. Like the conversation you had with Ryan you had a year ago, his success was entirely by having a couple signature characters and something to post about them regularly that directed people to the haunt event. Non direct selling. Plus they kind of toyed with the process for 3 years before they decided to go independent. The characters were already wild and then there was a place they were available to see them at. Their clowns had natioal appeal which helped drive traffic but the local traffic was all that was actually precious in the whole campaigne.

So these clowns went to every party you can think of, made sure there were pictures, shared their weird rants online that were humorous. Instead of giving google or facebook $50 a day, they had sort of a national driver doing the same thing that buzzed the local area seasonally. You need crazy characters and crazy back stories to put out there content wise to already be entertaining potential customers all year long for free. So there is all the more incentive to put a reminder note on the calender for when it is open. People share what one of your crazy character says and does for quite some geographic distance and you will get people coming in from 200 miles away, besides other haunters supporting your efforts.

Unless someone corrects me on the rates, there is a reason Facebook thinks it is worth 100 billion and Google thinks it is worth 650 kazzilion dollars and some how we are on the PAY money part of that. Doesn't mean it converts into money back for money invested at a reasonable cost like $1 or $2 per customer.

Greg Chrise
06-07-2012, 11:05 PM
Like since you have an eqyptian facade, I want to see a 20 second video of someone or some creature doing the walk like an Egyptian song. Then just the name of your website in an end banner, done. Or some other character has a rant in front of the old shed. Just silly things that sort of have a weekly fan base. The Terror nights guys knew exactly what kind of attention they were getting before any of us estimated how much it would do right out of the box and we were dead on for our town. Your town has the exact same numbers as ours in potential.

Terrorknight
06-08-2012, 07:17 AM
Here's the thing I think alot of us miss when it comes to getting people to Like us on FB. You need to give them a reason to do so. Here's what we are doing and it's starting to work well. Number 1 Last Transworld we bought a Picture Marketing camera system, this gives us the ability to put something into the hand of a customer that they will want ( a FREE Photo ). Number 2 this Transworld we bought 9 foot tall Rot Zombie from Gore Galore, this gives the people a memorable experience. Number 3 but these to thing together at every fair, festival, horror convention, car show anything you can get into in the off season. We also printed bizz cards with our Name on one side and a discount on the other, it some says to LIKE us on FB and has a coupon code for our online tickets. We just did Comic Con in Philadelphia we took over 2700 photo's and passed out 8000 discount cards. We told people we were doing complementary photo's courtesy of our haunt. We took there photo with our Rot Zombie which they loved and were having a great time with and then handed them the picture card and a discount card. We did this last weekend and we are gaining about 20 new LIKES per day, plus when they redeem there photo's online I'm getting there email address and they are share there photos on there FB and all there friends are seeing the photos with our logo on them and that builds positive LIKES.

The moral of my long story is people no longer respond to empty ad's and sales pitches, they respond to tangible experiences, one on one contact. The tools are out there you just need to know how to use them. We bought the Picture Marketing system and Rot Zombie for less then 2 weeks of radio and we can use it year round.12914

drfrightner
06-08-2012, 11:10 AM
Google works really well as does most web based programs where you can find target audience. I did not get much traffic from facebook last year it was below Google, Yahoo, Bing and Hauntworld.com. People who follow facebook they have found do not pay much attention to advertisement on their own pages.

If you are paying by the click you can't go wrong, if you are paying by impression don't do it.

Larry

tonguesandwich
06-08-2012, 12:07 PM
Soft sale.. make people who want to buy.. its a power trip. Create a biz page on what ever you're selling. Put up at least 10 relevant post on the topic on interest. You will need at least 3 a day. You also should do question statements. Your ads will take em to the page. You should come up with about 45 different ads and test them but your target should be your facebook page not your haunt site. Make sure you are running ads to target facebook interest. Meaning use the facebook tools to see how many peeps have an interest in what you are selling say " haunted houses" make sure you have enough numbers to run an ad to that target audience so that your ad only pops up on their facebook pages..aka quality lead. Now give them a reason to "Like" your page.. say a free giveaway once a day like a shirt or coupon. Once they like now your in there newsfeed(Should be). We use to be able to put opt in pages on your facebook biz page which was pretty powerful but they have changed it and I haven't revisited. Now on your page soft sale but don't over do it and post three relevant posts a day.. a good give away is always an ebook... You can usually write one in a few hours. It can be on haunted houses, monsters, fx or anything relevant. Cost you zero and people love them. Most people running ads fail because they don't create a sales funnel! They just say buy my crap and try to sell to people. Selling is suckie.. you have to create people who want to buy. Buying is one of the most powerful things a person can do.. You must make buyers with your ads and sells funnel. Don't make the mistake of trying to sell with your ads.
Facebook makes lots of changes constantly especially with biz pages. So you have to stay on top of it.

Greg Chrise
06-08-2012, 12:14 PM
Even going with Google. If you are playing with a million dollars and giving everyone $12 to come because you will get $15 from them is maybe a 20% on investment and if you put out a million you get 1.2 million back. Cool, you profited $200,000 for your investment. Or some percentage increase in customers occured because of this activity and it was at a plus. You can earn a living just by calling up the Google dude.

For a very small venue you just turned a $15 attraction into a $4 attraction per customer and the percentage increase on a couple thousand dollars is not worth discounting things just to have more bodies. It may be a judgement call of having a certain appearence and exposure but the actual dollar figure return is not great. Plus the smaller attractions kind of get the majority of customers only once every so many years, it isn't building any loyalty so you need the full amount of dollars you can get from even that last 2% of customers to reinvest in the attraction rather than some precense that costs money.

The Rot Zombie example above and the photo program may have cost a couple thousand but it is a one time purchase and then you use that tool over and over. The marketing in the internet is recourring never ending investment cycle. Say you spent $2,000 on Google ads and were able to target them locally, you would make back in ticket sales $2400. So was the wear and tear, complications and extra stress really worth $400? At $15 a ticket that would mean 160 extra customers perhaps. If it happened organically from some fun promotion you make $2400, if you want a robot to make you money you make $400.

If a haunt was hovering around 10,000 people and it was the entire reason they maintain 25,000 customers I would be all about marketing this way. Until then I'm not impressed.

Greg Chrise
06-08-2012, 12:27 PM
The Rot Zombie and photo promotion is more on the level of personally inviting people who already love what you are doing. There is no way to actually verify that 160 people came out of 4,000 to 10,000 people accurately. Getting a coupon back has indeed some numbers that are verifyable and might be higher as people still come buy a ticket but didn't worry about bringing their coupon to redeem.

tonguesandwich
06-08-2012, 12:47 PM
Google is definitely going towards big business if you look at what they have been doing over the last 6 months. Like major magazines.... who are very selective on who is able to run an ad and costly. Less people are watching TV. My main company that I am a founder for.. we run 240 hrs of TV commercials a day. Our budget is 100 million a year. We don't make money on the product we sell. That covers our cost.. we make money on the up sales. So for small biz is tv the way to go? Newspapers are almost dead. Radio marketing is horribly weak. You can run an internet campaign for under $3-2K a year ..yes it takes maintenance. Through niche marketing and some other tricks you can hit "Quality leads" so your dollar works for you. If you have an email list and actually know how to use it to get over the 3% hump.. you should be golden! Small biz has to convert to the net or your going to be extinct.

Terrorknight
06-08-2012, 01:21 PM
I will say this and whoever can believe me or not. 4 years ago I went with a major change in the way I do marketing. I stopped spending $70,000 to $100,000 a season on radio, TV, Newspaper and every other new thing that can around the block. Instead I changed the amount of my ticket from $25 to $30 because my goal price ways $20 per person. This gave me the room I needed to take the money I was paying out to these different media outlets and pass a bigger savings to the customers. When I did this I took my numbers that hadn't changed in 3 years and had a noticeable rise in customers every year sense. I added Police, fireman, EMT, Student and Military Discounts. I could also do a better group price and I run a online ticket give away every week. The winner gets 2 free VIP tickets and the loser that week get a special discount to be used that weekend only and I change it every week depending on the crowds, the weather, whatever. But the key was to make as many people as I could feel special, like they were getting something that no one else could get.

When of course that goes with the pictures and festival thing, where we are making personal connection with people that will help to keep us in there mind come Oct. ( Oh those were the guy's that we got our picture from or hey I had a cool conversation about make-up ) This kind of marketing goes way farther then BUY MY STUFF.

Robert
12915[ATTACH=CONFIG]12916

Greg Chrise
06-08-2012, 01:46 PM
There is one other consideration, Sue's haunt is not in silicon valley or in the great north, In East Texas you might try Fax-a-monster or throw a brick with a message promotional campaignes. The hustle and bustle of the tech world and seeing something to go do and being motivated to do it does not exist. Most are still looking at the pretty lights if they have a computer at all here.

Doing some smart phone app might inform one nerd in a 200 mile radius, and expecting cold call adverting on the side of some web site has a very low click ratio.

So the getting out and being seen thing is still what is available regardless of what is happening in all those other fancy places.

tonguesandwich
06-08-2012, 03:23 PM
95% Ages 18-34 with a margin of error of +3/-3 have a cell phone.. 85% on all us adults. 70% of that age bracket have laptops and another 57 percent have desktops. With computer/smart phones/tablets etc only 9% of people in America don't have one and these are 2010 numbers so the number is much higher now.
44.6 million register facebooks users under the age of 24 with 124 million US users. At the same time ownerships of TVs have fallen (New York Edition May3, 2011)

2011, 92% of adult US Internet users send or read email. The same source suggests that 66% of those email users do so as part of a typical day. There are 3.1 billion email accounts in 2011, by 2015 it will hit 4 billion.

If your target age range is 45 to 64 then you would want to use tradition media... else you have to get current.

In most markets money isn't made from getting people in the door... its made from returning customers... getting people in with the right marketing isn't usually hard..its offering a quality product that makes them return year after year. That builds upon itself.

Gore Galore
06-08-2012, 07:06 PM
Robert (terrorknight) is explaining something that he is doing that ALL Theme Parks/Screamparks are doing. Making their events an interactive experience and giving his customers something extra for their money, an interaction, an in your face bigger than life experience, and A photo-op, whether that is at his event or at a public event full of brand new faces who know NOTHING about his events.
This is powerful one time investment marketing.
Buying a Giant Costume that stands 10' tall will be seen from a great distance and attract alot of attention at festivals, sporting events, parades, bierstube, allowing you to get your flyers into the hands of fresh new jaw dropped faces open to the experience etc... How often does anyone get to come into contact with a 10' Zombie, banshee, skeleton, etc...
And this ALL plays INTO the facebook (tagging and liking your company or event) and or internet experience. It all goes hand in hand. And makes for powerful marketing. Why do you think that our company Gore Galore Markets the sales of our GIANT COSTUMES to ALL our customers in this way. Because it works. It makes money.
And Robert and Many others who use them the same way are the proof.

tonguesandwich
06-08-2012, 08:30 PM
I absolutely agree with you, photo ops should be part of everyone's marketing after your initial campaign. Its also fairly easy with one click, that you can send that photo/video to 20 different social media sites yourself and hit thousands in your target market on the front end of your season. Lots of tools in the bag.

Terrorknight
06-08-2012, 08:54 PM
Hey Kevin welcome to my island of common sense. It's funny to me that what i'm doing is really a very old idea, but somehow most haunters, me included for a time moved away from what built us in the being. This comic con we just did had ruffly 60,000 people from New York to D.C. and out to Ohio. Now the booth did cost $1600 but again most haunts would hand that over to a radio station with blinking with really a unknown reach, the station can spout of numbers but we all know we tune out commercials. It's really hard to tune out a 10 foot Zombie. And we got him in the lines waiting to get in 2 hours early to entertain the people why they waited. MAKE YOURSELF UNFORGETTABLE !!! and you will be.

Pairing Kevin's costumes with the free photo op from Picture Marketing is a WIN, WIN. It's something the people are in awe of and a memory they can share with friends.

Positive PR

Robert

Gore Galore
06-08-2012, 09:04 PM
Robert,

Very simply thank you for allowing us to be apart of your marketing and demonstrating exactly how Our Giant Costumes can work for you.

terrormasue
06-08-2012, 09:55 PM
Thank you all so much. Great information. So what I am hearing is back off on the radio ads, no FaceBook ads, maybe Google, Tweets etc.. Get things posted daily. Get out there in the public. Something a bit hard for me to due like Greg mentioned I am out in the sticks. I have this last year been in a few local parades. I did like that and we did have a great response from everyone. Thank you all and please keep more information coming!

Sue

Greg Chrise
06-08-2012, 10:18 PM
Mister tongue, I'm trying to respect your numbers and it may prove motivating. Please take this as a conversation rather than my being combative or complaining in any way. I can't help but think what percentage may have a cell phone and are functionally illiterate or that have a desk top or lap top but weigh in at 600 pounds because they were raised with a pringles can in their hand. There is no colored in map showing how the only computers in some towns are those that have them in the schools and libraries. I'm not being extreme here in any way.

Grantit I have been to rural locations where kids have grown up and are tremendously bright and in touch because of the internet in their home but, the means to travel and such, lack of family income are real take away precentage to the whole. It depends on what the product is. If it is something that can be monetized over the interwebs to any user anywhere, really cheaply, all these summary numbers are inspiring. Like information?

In our area it seems the more able to pay $20 a ticket and travel to get to an event in a specific period of time/season in great numbers end up being maybe the 24 to 35 year olds. They are post college or just prior to starting responcibilities, do infact have not just a cell phone but at least the $100 a month plan and spent $300 or more for the phone. These devices may have been an extention of word of mouth as were social sites. The under 24 group poves to be 1/10th the numbers of the 24 to 35 year olds. Entertainment geared toward specific groups ends up being a lack luster attendance. Similar games and entertainment that is enjoyed in the home train them to stay home. Haunts are after twice the cost of a movie these days and require only 1/8th the time to partake.

To some degree even the desire to have all these expenses and maintain the expenses to have gadgets can sometimes overide behavior to go do things. The very technology is in fact the competition to having a live event. Limited expendable income.

I am trying not to be negative but there are so many real factors that chew away at national numbers. There is a reality to things and honest marketing return percentages of 1 or 3 in 1000 does something and if you have the best event ever you might achieve 10% of your population in a given range of travel. Sure there are .05 percent that will come from the opposite end of the country.

Other factors thrown in take away some of the magic, the early October weeks are devoted to families already spending on the Texas State Fair, the sports season in full swing and perhaps the older set is not attatched to those events as much. The other fun thing with techology is hearing from New Jersey, Las Vegas and similar high population centers and the infrastructure for streaming anything is glitchy at best on most devices away from major population centers. Little hubs in South Africa and Russia have direct access to a satelite and the rural communities have a 200 year old phone company blocking their speed. Thus it tends to be less enjoyable, less reliable and not the go to source at the present time for information you really need to have.

I'll totally agree, an I am SO lucky my regular business tends to serve the above 45 year olds but, in the middle of nowhere, some savy people in their late 20s that had advertsing back grounds did very well with free social marketing and a few radio stations. And we discuss whether there is more that could be done regularly. The bottom line is they are getting 10% of the population and more to come out for less than $1 a ticket and probably some of that is not necessary but adds some credability to the event. The old dude consultants were wandering around saying you gotta spend $2 to $3 per customer bla bla bla, except they never really did it, they just told people that is what you should do because some other big spenders did that.

Of couse things change pretty quickly. Unfortunately Texas and the consumer behavior is maybe 20 years behind. It is completely stable but completely weird compared to anywhere else. The only thing it has going for it is a high percentage of people have migrated to Texas from somewhere else. Yet a majority of incomes are derived from driving out of the state and working long hours and not even being here. The businesses that are more local just have to be reasonable in what expected returns will be. A slower dynamic.

The other point is sure it would be great that people came every year and the shows were so wonderful that they did return and return and build, but they don't no matter who's show it is. Not the highest percentage of customers, it is more like you see the first year people again 3 years later and there are really 3 different groups of customers and you predict how many are coming this year by how many you saw 3 years ago. Not what you did last year.

SO this lack of magic marketing bullet might in fact be why so many of the shows are over the top detailed and the best acting and excellent facilities, basically because that has been all you can do with any certainty. And because all those possible things you can spend money on to market things dont work either so that money is indeed available for the haunt itself.

The haunts become so well produced that there are lots and lots of haunts that are well produced and there again cutting away at the percentages of who is coming this year to where. The premis of this whole thing is somehow putting money on something to make it better and it is a gamble. Not just some old crud that just heard about the internet. Real return on investment on a local market versus numbers routinely used to market something nationally or in a high population region. A lot of the newest tech products and tech related services really do read in availabilty to limited release movie. You can't have an app for that in a town under 100,000 population. Maybe 5 years from now.

I would just be happy if other types of businesses paid for all those infrastructure changes when it is cost per customer values. That is business. People will flock if they see people doing things they love to do or things they would love to do in common. So it is any means that communicates even the most mundane fun somehow all year long, off season that gets noticed. That too may be a subtle regional desire. Whereas in a larger city one might not know their neighbor or intentionally not want to know or get involved until the news crews ask about the guy that lived there. He seemed polite?

Greg Chrise
06-08-2012, 10:41 PM
As far as businesses in Texas, there are tons of computers and they all want to fax each other. They don't want to email or text message. Some do some don't. I still have a freaking pager and it goes off 4 times a day and means money but every call of the regular landlines are trying to sell ME something like health insurance, tools from china at a real deal, pens to promote my business, 200 some charities I should sent $50 to.

The young people have bypassed all of that and message or post on facebook. Depending on what town there might be other services getting hot use. There are still haunted houses to this very day using Tripod!?!? Really and a one page instruction landing page. We've really gotten hooked up with the interwebs.

Other substitutes that actually work are small almost theatrical trailers for the theme of your haunt. That goes further than anything else. The other problem is the focus of all these various methods, email, social marketing, text message, and so on, each one errodes the other similar to there are 300 channels on TV and a small haunt can't give each channel $2,000. So you have to still be somewhat of a guerilla marketer on many forums and not doing a hard sell. As cheaply as possible meaning time invested only.

An advertising guy without any provable results what so ever thinks he is worth $100 per hour. So haunters are do it yourselfers in that reguard too. They will work on their own vehicles instead of pay $50 to $80 per hour. So it is kind of hard sell that the interwebs are magic for something that targets only a local number of people. Maybe it is a Texas thing even in the 4.5 million people cities the return on investment is so low it isn't trackable. Each little suburb is 240,000 people and every haunt should be seeing 24,000 people but they don't and it isn't for lack of trying. They all hover around 10,000 plus or minus 1000. The same as a city of 85,000. And there are 50 plus haunts in Texas to sample. The higher poulation zones have higher diversion factors. An extra $50 a day isn't going to change that. If you could afford the $50 a day to begin with. Maybe you could blow $30 a day? But, that would maybe be into 3 catagories and so no more than $10 a day goes to making Google any richer if you are in Texas.

Greg Chrise
06-08-2012, 10:44 PM
But to bring it full circle, people are not paying attention to adds on facebook. Like Larry K. said. Major companies spending 10 million a month have stopped, not seeing a return from that environment. And there is a subtle shift in the fact that people that are standing around texting and messaging are soon unemployed and then technically not driving anywhere for entertainment regularly. You are competing with the all you can eat buffet, $8 with water as a drink or a $20 haunt equals 2 days of meals. But, yep, they have an iphone.

Greg Chrise
06-08-2012, 11:06 PM
Meanwhile, one of the ads on my facebook page is picturemarketingdotcom. Promote your attraction!

You guys are spies, aren't you.

tonguesandwich
06-08-2012, 11:47 PM
GM did pull out but others like nutella and Applebee's are reporting 3x return. There has been a 50% increase in ads the last 12 months and 65% of companies now use Facebook .. They probably do have some work to do since I believe the click is 1 n 5 people.. Though there is room for gain. That said.. 1 n 5 peeps have clicked and with such a large audience that are qualities leads.. U cant do that anywhere else. If you fail at it you may be doing something wrong. I doubt haunts that are having success would talk about it as the nature of competition. The capital risk is so low, it is safe to test. There is a small learning curve and if you just throw an ad up.. Unless u r very lucky u probably will fail.I am definently a spie!
Just my 2 cents and I am out!
Peace

Greg Chrise
06-09-2012, 09:21 AM
Mister tongue, I pronounce you vice president of marketing and sales. I don't feel any information has been with held from the groups with a sense of competition or embarrasement or anything. It is a wide open relationship with al the haunts that are all learning/ attempting new things. It is more like everyone runs to raise everyone elses barns as necessary. Everyone has been around for 20 to 25 years and understands the great physical distances and great population of the area, the haunts are required to work together to pool ever possible customer.

I'm guessing for an Applebees add to show up, it has been someone regularly in search of food. My adds are all the way down the side that there are hot grandmas that want to meet ME!

Terrorknight
06-09-2012, 10:47 AM
terrormasue ,

I will say everything is depended on your location. Parades are a great place to be seen, because you can really stand out to a captive audience. You can also pass out your flyers to them. Really what my point is , try grass roots before spending alot of money on the unknown, the unknown is just a waste of time , you can get over that. If you spend alot of money and it not pay off your out of bizz.


Robert

tonguesandwich
06-09-2012, 08:18 PM
[QUOTE=Greg Chrise;136552]Mister tongue, I pronounce you vice president of marketing and sales.[/QUOTE

LOL... that's a demotion! And my apologies if you think I was directing those statements to you and your community. My point was normally a marketing technique won't be brought to the foreground until it has created a base of execution in that field by a leader. Not that peeps are hiding anything from each other intentionally (In this field). If haunts are not successful using social media the question should be "whats being done wrong" since most industries are capitalizing on it. I understand that being in the boondocks has a special set of problems. Most homes have a computer even in the boondocks... if they got TV! If you can reach a larger audience that are specifically looking for what you offer and a price that creates profit with little risk ...then why wouldn't you attempt to do so. The only reason in my mind is because you are happy with the numbers you have. A haunter I do business with actually had to pull his marketing down for a year because his farm couldn't handle the crowd..or that at least what he said. Nice problem...
There are only 2 real ways to make big money in any business. Marketing and/or innovation.... but if you are content then you don't need either.
I would think it really cool if someone like Hauntworld did a survey on coupon return and broke it into size and type of haunt.
Again I apologize if anything was taken personal was not my intent.
I don't think we are going to agree and this discussion seems to be a dead horse. Talking about dead horses and photo ops..this one worked pretty good for me.
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x92/Tonguesandwich/horse.jpg

Greg Chrise
06-09-2012, 10:23 PM
Facebooks very own advertising section suggests $1.25 cost per click has amazing returns on closed qualified customers and results in ONLY $10.25 per lead. Which is wonderful if you are a certain storage facility where every customer is paying $100 a month or life time average of 6 months equals $600. It works great for finding people that want to buy tickets on an airline to Japan. It's radiation season! Big discounts!

So it is like I said only possibly more expensive. Great for doctor and dentist visits. Great for marketing campaignes where you are selling an ebook for $40 or $100 or $5,000. Not great for $15 or $20 ticket purchase. Plus I suspect even lower conversion factors due to weather days, just the fact you have to drive somewhere in the middle of nowhere you don't normally go etc.

Other problems are technical like all the computers think we are located 80 miles away where the server ports are physically located. That is helpful. Screw dead horses, we are into consumer protection territory now.

tonguesandwich
06-10-2012, 12:05 AM
There is strategy in what you pay per click and when you run your ads and how you rotate your ads. There are lead captures and sales funnels that work. If I paid what facebook told me to do I would obviously not know what I am doing. Sometimes more sometimes much much less depending where we are in the lead page development. We usually will get down to around 10 cents a click but that depends on where the campaign is. Why would you pay the same $ amount per click???
I don't understand your statement on "consumer protection"? I am not trying to sell this to you or pitch a facebook marketing campaign for you but this is a valid tool if you know how to use it. Google is stronger but now your $$$
Maybe facebook ads won't work for you...don't know. I know it works in many companies. You may have a unique situation where this or anything with marketing current trends seems to be an issue. I am not selling a facebook product nor marketing strategy using facebook. I use these techniques to make money pushing my other non haunt products and have not even tried to roll them into this arena cause I haven't the need. If my peeps do an eBook it is 12 to 20 bucks and many times free just to grab the lead.
The whole thread was based on facebook marketing and all I have done is try to give facts . I could care less who uses what. I am trying to be helpful that's it! The success of a campaign must be measured in relationship of the product. An opinion, If you use the tool and your campaign has failed… then you probably should not use it or try to figure out what went wrong.
But clearly the data shows that business would be making a mistake to disregard Facebook as a place to reach out to their customers.
Again.. you may have a very special situation that technology may not work for in this case .

I am out
Best wishes and great success,

Greg Chrise
06-10-2012, 02:31 AM
I wasn't suggesting you were actually pushing anything. There is no subtle way to say it, with out being warned, people might try the direct to facebook thing in order to drive ticket sales because they heard people are doing this.

I really wish I had something that needed to be sold that can't just be taken to a trade show and sold, or really could push more customers through the couple of facilities I'm associated with, with out having to plan to move them.

Some of us are just old, not picking up on all this and have a pretense to people selling things or reacting to limited information that has secrets you have to pay for to be revieled. Again you have provided lots of details and I'm not reacting to you at all, I have issues. Being in the marketing industry as you are, whipping out buzz words comes easily that apply more to services and products or brand building or list making. Sue's total intention is based on driving ticket sales, which examples I have tried to illustrate by thinking out loud.

So now if there are methods that anyone can get to that are 10 cents per click, for proper key words and they aren't routing through a 486 computer in a closet in Kenya, maybe that is good to know. Or if there is a way to make a solid buck off of the limited traffic that happens with things halloween, that would be good to know. There are already so many tasks to running events that other things can be a massive diversion that really should have no attention spent to them.

How things are judged with haunt ticket sales and the money coming from the customer and no where else is completely understanding and predicting the cost per customer aquisition and effectively doing that for less that $1 a customer. Sure you could spend 80% of your money on advertising and be real proud of yourself. A lot of people are spending way too much and touting that what they are doing is somehow elite. Nothing mister tongue has said, just 20 years of repeating scenarios of how to operate and market a haunt and what is trending now. Then 2 years later you hear how that was a tremendously misleading failure and wasn't the core of why customers come to an attraction at all.

So being a skeptic is healthy. Not having people be able or willing to communicate why what or specifically why things are great and turn key fabulous is an on going problem. Or that anyone can do $1000 worth of help for only $4,000 is what happens in the real world and in hard times people complain that they can only get $1000 jobs over and over and not the $4,000 they should be getting.

Further this is kind of becoming a crazy super small market where 300 people have something to sell to 700 people and it is all going to work out somehow that no one loses. Hence an over view of some resistance or only understanding facebook for the moment. Since it does have 4.5 million users that over the years are going to be monetized somehow. Yet each haunt can only worry about their specific 80,000 to 240,000 population bases. Or living in a town of 1700 very old people and getting people to come in from 2 hours away regularly.

If there are ways to do things this board if full of influencers and advisors that actually shape any of these experiments as things become available. The do it yourself life style carries through to every bit of haunting and people will stumble through things they have never tried before rather than just be a go getter and pay a couple thousand for a program that magically does things for them. In doing so, there might be 10 years of mistakes and trail and error and 15 times the money spend but at the end of the cycle they will say they did this. I guess this would be called being stuborn and I have it too.

And sometime you just have to say don't do this. Unless what ever it is can be explained in a fashion that is not theoretical. If anyone is working on things I would love to be amazed. I love seeing people succeed. I try to make people succeed and do better than they would otherwise. If there was really such a thing I could walk into 5 places right now and tell them they can stop working so hard and I could go to another 4 places and tell them here is how to increase to what everyone else is gaining. I haven't found that magic formula or program as of yet. The old dudes were blowing smoke and the young guys can't widdle it down to specific facts that really matter.

Don't worry, no one actually reads this shit. I even have my name on here and no one knows who the hell I am anywhere.

Greg Chrise
06-10-2012, 04:21 AM
I actually work for a multi billion dollar company. For the last 10 years I have sat here clicking and typing things and Microsoft made 65 billion dollars.

Gore Galore
06-10-2012, 07:50 AM
It is a fact that ALL events have to market their event to be successful.
But different factors effect marketing.
like demographic, location, SES (socioeconomic status of the region), etc...

I think it would be great to list lots of marketing tools and try to examine them.

I actually find talking about facebook pay per click interesting. But I think you are throwing your money away if you think each click should translate into ticket sales. If you think it is simply making an impression. Trying to keep your event in people's minds in your region it may be money well spent.

But what do I need to do if I have a haunt in a rural location or suburb of a smallish town say. a population of 3325 with a per capita income for the town at $24,537. Wikepedia is awesome and provided me this info and so much more about population density, race, sex stats etc. which all affect potential attendance of the event.

Now, there are also 342,815 for the entire Evansville metropolitan area. THIS is our potential market.
How do we attract more customers from this population?

From my personal Experience, here is what I would do. But I know there is so much more than this. But this is what I would start with.

Print flyers, pull together a couple giant costumes, set up several actors in good quality costuming to protect the giant costumes, distribute flyers and take pictures. The bigger the haunt crew you have the better or bigger impression you make on the crowds.
and do some guerrilla marketing. It is free yet powerful with the ability to reach as many people as possible with a single interaction
We would be attending organized events which you have contacted the organizers for you to attend such as being in a parade, sporting event, bierstube.
AND hitting public events or even night spots bars, or any place where people are in groups such as the west side nut club here is the wikipedia link. Or crusing down the bar strip and going into the bars very quickly but making sure it is ok with the proprietors. It usually is because it brings alot of excitement to the bars.

One event we always do is,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Side_Nut_Club_Fall_Festival
this festival. It has the attendance of 150,000 over the course of 4 or 5 days.
Can you imagine having a booth to distribute flyers or even just walking around this event nightly with a couple giant costumes with our logo on their chests, and a couple wrangers in costumes distributing flyers and taking pictures w people.
I love doing this. It is just so personal and powerful. Doing this type of marketing not only lets you meet new people and they really want to know what else you have. The energy is just awe inspiring.
This is also where facebook comes into play. Not as much as pay per click kind of advertising. But tagging the pics. I would even be taking the pictures with our camera then asking for their facebook profile name so we can tag them and vice versa. We would just walk up and down the street for hours doing this over and over again.
I have video of us doing this somewhere. I need to post it.

SO, that is my contribution to my aspect of Haunt Marketing.
What else is money well spent?

tonguesandwich
06-10-2012, 11:27 AM
Great posts....
I am more than happy to show you how an affiliate marketer would do it for free....but facebook has made some changes to the biz pages. So I have to go in and explore and my time right now is a bitch for me. We got way more orders for Hazardroom then expected so I got to get those out. Trying not to do a haunt this year but keep getting sweetheart offers. That said its going to take some time to share the methods used by these type of marketers. The Darkseekers I have in my signature actually has nothing to do with facebook ads.. it is mass video marketing.

So just to throw a real quick list up... what is missing?

Free marketing:
1. Posting pics, teasers , photo ops ( Gore Galores bad ass costumes etc) to the 20 top social media sites.
2. Returning customers ( Where the real money is made)
3. Word of mouth
4. Being visual
5. Email campaigns
6. Banner on the side of your barn etc
7. Haunt locators like Haunt World

Low cost
1. Coupons (what is the return rate?)/flyers
2. Parades/events
3. eTicket sales (Doesn't matter if they show)
4. Internet video mass marketing
5. Media night/charity night/ recognition night...police/fire etc.
6. Website

Medium to high cost
1. Internet ads
2. Radio (Can be low cost if done like RJ Productions)
3. Billboards
4. Groupons etc
5. TV
6. Celebrity appearance

Whats missing from this list?

Greg Chrise
06-10-2012, 02:07 PM
1) Specialty vehicles, art cars, hearses, vehicle wraps
2) Kiosk with videos and fliers at malls and seasonal Halloween store
3) not just fliers on a table but eye catching artifacts to hold printed materials
4) Detailed full facades, a destination for a look see even off season
5) Content provided to any free blog, magazine, news source.
6) Shared fliers at all surrounding haunted houses
7) Encourage well developed characters, market thier odd behaviors and beliefs.
8) 45 to 85 actors encouraged to also (with guidance) hack the planet
9) T-shirts and props donated for fund raisers and door prizes at any event
10) Bumper stickers
11) Free tours on or off season to anyone in the haunt industry, they relate their experience
12) Sponsoring BMX bicycle and Skateboard events
13) Realeasing your sound track
14) Participating in the How to market for make up, actor training and haunt design
15) Promoting the life style all year round with actors and crew
16) Cross over into theme construction for lazer tag, paint ball, water park, family entertainment center, even retail shops and trade show booths lead back to desire to see what is at the haunt.
17) Logo graffiti and lazer projection (in most cases authorized to do so) film clandestine operations.
18) Maze off season use for other photographers and videos.
19) Maze off season used as training facility for fire and rescue.
20) Haunted House adopt a highway program
21) Props available at party rental stores and costume shops
22) Offering support to anyone of a like mindset
23) Actually having developed the haunt events that people talk about in off season.
24) Small impromptu scares in any big box or grocery store then hand them a card.
25) Cross overs into independent films and theatrical productions
26) Movie theater before movie slides.
27) Core groups and skilled participants having devoted 3 to 5 years in charity haunts and building them up first as much as they will not baulk at. Then launch pro haunts. Building market first on free resources.
28) Combining good haunts together and building excitement from this.
29) literally give away older props and equipment rather than pay for storage.
30) promote the event(s), not yourself.
31) Non haunter investors tend to promote what ever they are supporting with great resound.
32) becoming the property owner rather than some scourge that might move away or can be made to go away.
33) Direct support of Halloween party residential party props, package discount for haunt attendance.
34) Encourage church youth groups, vans and bus loads for scavenger hunts. Youth pastors can try to keep them from the dark side. Spending untold hours dealing with subjects and speading word of mouth. Real mouths with words coming out. And the catch is they have to actually buy tickets to enter.
35) Large youth church room theme design of stages and gathering rooms. Set design with a twist.

Basically, rather than be just another advertiser on a roll with 4,000 other advertising hopefulls, really support other people's lives in some small way. It's free and you can still be manic depressive. You don't have to smile or anything like that. Get into the fabric of your community. Buy shit from everyone, if you support their business they will support yours.

36) Even the act of taking away junk or picking up used materials is a small personal conversation about your event.
37) Any call for actors or set up people even to state run employment bureaus and temporary services is free advertising. The open communication of what is happening now. The elevator style short presentation of a news letter in person, in your town.

It is pretty easy to come up with things to do. The other day I realized my business cards are running kind of low. The period of time it took to go through 1000 cards and how much income I made is on the order of each card being worth $360 each. That is much better than 1 in 5 might care and then 1 in 20 might actually show up and it costs 30 cents each. So I'm really doing a 1200 times gain by being a low life refusing to spend money, yet willing to help anyone if I can.

I have a few business intrests and watch competitors spend $16,000 per year on conventional be somebody advertising and I spend this maybe $5 a year and my willing to help, figure things out the right way, do quality work that what has been done IS the calling card. And every other year, competitors go into bankruptsy to the tune of owing $18,000, go out of business, come back with a new name and presumably more investors that will never see their money back. Over and over. Plus these people go through a different life style than I do of wandering around talking to 20 people before they get one job. I generally get 80% to 95% and some of those are because I don't like the people and have a long list to replace them with. Their leads are not qualified, they are just harvested. By time they find me, they already have educated themselves on what they want.

This attitude happens in ticket sales also. A much slower long tail of customers genuinely being satisfied rather than being a participant in a million dollar launch and wondering if they are some kind of victim of advertising. Good things don't happen in hours without some kind of consequences. Even though the internet has been wide open to anyone th trend is things people are actually responding to are more old school devotion to real services, real journalism, real benefits. Young company founders are looking at what is wrong and declaring it can all be better, so you have to step up the class in any game. Sometimes it takes 20 revisions to get something right. Be prepared to learn.

Gore Galore
06-10-2012, 05:49 PM
Here is the video I was talking about. It is a little dark, but you get the point.

9IWuVE2T0nk

tonguesandwich
06-11-2012, 02:19 PM
Awesome posts and sweet video... Greg are you typing that all or is that voice recognition?

john haines
06-11-2012, 02:31 PM
after 1 year, tired of all the BS. relief !!!!!!!

Greg Chrise
06-11-2012, 04:24 PM
Yep, I type everything until there are no letter marks on the keys. Then it looks like, njkghekwbcvghknmnndvsfdyfkmfbhhjd!
If it was Voice Recognition every other word would be a (elicit deleted). Then I woud have to outsource it to India to get it transcripted into proper academic English.

BrotherMysterio
06-12-2012, 02:00 PM
Then I would have to outsource it to India to get it transcripted into proper academic English.

You know, that's not a bad gig. If there are free tickets and some swag in it, I'm available. :D

C.