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View Full Version : Did anyone see this... yet another new haunted house show



drfrightner
09-04-2012, 03:58 PM
Did anyone catch yet another show to offer our industry... check out the website. I think we are getting a bit crowded with shows! LOL

http://www.halloweenextreme.com/

screamforadream
09-04-2012, 06:06 PM
I think I have more respect for it already than some of the other shows out there!!

Why? Transworld is awesome and I would love to go, scratch that, I may have loved to go a few years ago! Now I want to go only because I've never been, but I've seen nothing but unsettling news from it and hear that it's just the same old stuff every year and then there's always the "transworld order drama" that goes on.

I hope that with Ben Armstrong's experience and reputation, along with the other producers of the event, that it doesn't become an ego thing and surrounding haunts don't charge $2309485749086729035486.81 to tour their shows if they open up for the show. That and Florida is so much more fun and safe than St Louis. It's a little farther away for me, but I'd be willing to pitch the extra few bucks to go to Florida.

I planned on going to transworld in 2013, but I may very well go to this one instead! I'll stay reserved until I see the vendor list and see more news posts, but I am thrilled for something new that is professional and on a grand scale that may actually be worth staying for 2-3 days other than transworld. Best of luck to the producers and I really hope to see some great things coming from this! :)

Darkangel
09-04-2012, 06:38 PM
Bobby,

You might be going overboard. This show will of course be about ego why would there even be a new show when transworld is enough the vendors that go there can barely supply demand now they want to
vend at a show in may?

Anyone who ops for this new shoe over the real Transworld in march us making a mistake, plus Orlando is no safer than St Louis have you been mugged there or something? Lol

DA

Jim Warfield
09-04-2012, 06:43 PM
No. I have been trying to figure out how to jack up and lift my house, put wheels under it and take it down the road to a convention???
Maybe the techical problem's solution will come to me in a "Dream"? (But I scarecly sleep at all anymore.) So "Nix" that.

casketvamp2
09-04-2012, 07:23 PM
You're a Senior member on this message board and have NEVER been to the Transworld Show?

screamforadream
09-04-2012, 07:51 PM
I'm a 20 year old full time college student, have a full time job, own a DJ company and do haunts every October and just built an entire scream park to open for this year. I never have time to go to a how more than 100 miles from home haha I went to NHC this past year and it was my first convention and wasn't overly impressed hahaha.

And I don't think so DA, I know we haven't agreed in the past, mainly because you're known for being the least mentally stable person here lol (no offense), but in all seriousness, this industry needs something new run by new people who are more closely connected to actual haunters, not just in it for the money behind producing a show. This is supposedly a new way of producing a show, they're gearing it towards EVERYONE! Home haunters, pro haunter, Halloween store owners, and hobbyists alike! I really have high expectations for it lol (no pressure Ben!)

I am looking forward to possibly being there! Hell, I almost want to invest on getting my friends company (he's starting to branch into larger production but doesn't have the funds) donut may be worth it with such low booth prices!

Darkangel
09-04-2012, 08:18 PM
I'm a 20 year old full time college student, have a full time job, own a DJ company and do haunts every October and just built an entire scream park to open for this year. I never have time to go to a how more than 100 miles from home haha I went to NHC this past year and it was my first convention and wasn't overly impressed hahaha.

And I don't think so DA, I know we haven't agreed in the past, mainly because you're known for being the least mentally stable person here lol (no offense), but in all seriousness, this industry needs something new run by new people who are more closely connected to actual haunters, not just in it for the money behind producing a show. This is supposedly a new way of producing a show, they're gearing it towards EVERYONE! Home haunters, pro haunter, Halloween store owners, and hobbyists alike! I really have high expectations for it lol (no pressure Ben!)

I am looking forward to possibly being there! Hell, I almost want to invest on getting my friends company (he's starting to branch into larger production but doesn't have the funds) donut may be worth it with such low booth prices!


What a cocky, smug, smart ass comment that was. I'm mentally unstable why? Because I disagree with YOU? You haven't even been to transworld your opinion of it means NOTHING and you can't criticize Larry charging high prices for tickets to his haunts if you've never once paid for an admission. That is who you are referring to.

DA

Darkangel
09-04-2012, 08:20 PM
You're a Senior member on this message board and have NEVER been to the Transworld Show?

Exactly! That's why this board is long dead of the real talent in the haunt industry they left year's ago save a few.

DA

screamforadream
09-04-2012, 09:45 PM
I love to mess with you DA, your anger at everyone, be it me, the admins or new guys, always amuses me and so many others lol, I cant take you seriously.

And I'm referring to over 3 Tours. (trust me, I've done my research).

As for talent, look at all the build threads, they're incredible and very talented! Shame on you good sir (yes the angel is a sir).

Now to accuse me of ignorance because I haven't attended transworld is also a joke. I've spent years of my life and hours every day either reading, writing, researching, practicing all the different aspects of the industry, you don't become an expert by attending transworld, people go there to learn the industry, buy, sell, and network, it's become more of a tradition than a business trip for many and it excludes a lot of people, I thoroughly love the humbleness of this new show and I really wish it success. I'll be at one of them this year for sure and I hope both go well! But I do think the way this new show is being presented is better than what the current tw show is doing. I hope it's all true :)

son-of-sam
09-04-2012, 10:58 PM
I seen your post that your selling the scream park you built prior to you even opening up, why? I seen you put down do to a family emergency. Why would you put all that time in building and this is even your first season and you sell before you even open your doors for one day. If you love this industry why would you sell your first haunt before you open the doors? You get on here and bash people and talk like your a vet but did not open your beloved scream park after you put all that time and money in it just to walk away over a ''emergency''. Your the one that sounds mentally unstable if you ask me.

Allen H
09-04-2012, 11:41 PM
Lets keep it civil guys, we all love haunting.
Senior member of the board means you have time and desire to be online and on the board, thats all. Having a different view point does not mean you are unstable, however IF you know you often have a different view point then it would be wise to have a thick skin to go along with it. The personal stab never needed to be thrown and could have been laughed off easily.
Im really unthrilled with the timing of the show. It is one week before west coast haunters and two weeks before MHC. I also dont think the general public will want to buy large animations, but they will want the cool catalogs. I dont think the clientele will support haunt vendors. I do however love seeing small vendors with innovative new products.
I wonder the real reasoning behind the show. Is it to have a show that a Haunt can bring all of its staff to? I hate that it is in Orlando would you rater go to a haunt class or spend an extra hour at Universal of Disney?
I hope it does well, I wish I had the time to go and see it.
Allen H

drfrightner
09-04-2012, 11:55 PM
Couple things...

First off DA what we charged to tour our haunts has nothing to do with this new show nothing at all. And really even though it has NOTHING to do with it and I shouldnt have to explain myself 50 times but ... look at these legendary haunt tours they cost like $250 bucks. One of the first tours was done into Wisconsin or something and it was about $200 plus dollars. I'm tell you this ANY haunt out there that has to go through everything all the stress, spend all that money trying to get your haunt ready to go months and months and months before the halloween season deserves credit. I know what its like so all those guys that keep opening their doors kudos to you guys. I know one thing my bank account is flat BROKE and in large because of all the money we spent prior to Transworld on opening the haunts. I know all these guys who do this stuff spend everything they have to give fellow haunters a good show.

I wonder what haunts will open for this show in Orlando as I don't really know of any there... so that will be interesting. Me personally I think there are too many shows now this is getting out of hand. There is only so much time in a day! Gosh!

I hope the ones that go forward are different, exciting and successful! But if we get too many more of these events, shows and what not I fear many will start to fail.

Larry

Darkangel
09-05-2012, 04:43 AM
Couple things...

First off DA what we charged to tour our haunts has nothing to do with this new show nothing at all. And really even though it has NOTHING to do with it and I shouldnt have to explain myself 50 times but ... look at these legendary haunt tours they cost like $250 bucks.

Larry

Larry I was actually defending you on that post. The college kid insinuated that you charge way too much for your tours and was critical of Transworld but has never even been to either so his point, although to him seems entitled really has no merit.

DA

Darkangel
09-05-2012, 04:52 AM
I seen your post that your selling the scream park you built prior to you even opening up, why? I seen you put down do to a family emergency. Why would you put all that time in building and this is even your first season and you sell before you even open your doors for one day. If you love this industry why would you sell your first haunt before you open the doors? You get on here and bash people and talk like your a vet but did not open your beloved scream park after you put all that time and money in it just to walk away over a ''emergency''. Your the one that sounds mentally unstable if you ask me.

Well said Son of Sam Thank you!

DA

mindtumor
09-05-2012, 06:02 AM
And I don't think so DA, I know we haven't agreed in the past, mainly because you're known for being the least mentally stable person here lol (no offense). !

This may be the most ridiculous thing I've read this year on here.

Darksidestew
09-05-2012, 06:11 AM
Im a 48 year old man and have gone to all the show for 11 years.
Im all in for a NEW Show. tired of the same old crap from the same people and the over charges for events that are not worth half they charge from the so called best in the industry. bring it on...its time to change and replace .....

the only negative you will hear is from the organizers of the St Louis Show....ignore...

The more shows the bigger the industry gets...period.....Dont like what I write....do not read it.....

Stew

mindtumor
09-05-2012, 06:11 AM
Couple things...

First off DA what we charged to tour our haunts has nothing to do with this new show nothing at all. And really even though it has NOTHING to do with it and I shouldnt have to explain myself 50 times but ... look at these legendary haunt tours they cost like $250 bucks.

I think you misread DA. He wasn't the one complaining.

The thing with the tours or any of the extra crap you have to pay for to do is, you don't actually have to do it if you think its too expensive. The cost to do this stuff isn't that bad, but I guess everyone wants everything to be free.

mindtumor
09-05-2012, 06:17 AM
the only negative you will hear is from the organizers of the St Louis Show....ignore...




It's presented by Transworld, not sure if they are going to be negative about something they are presenting.

Darkangel
09-05-2012, 08:25 AM
Thanks Jared, and I must say you are one of the most sane people on here, never quick to pile on with the gang but be your own man. Much appreciated!

DA

john haines
09-05-2012, 09:09 AM
How can you complain about a show in florida ? Perfect !!!!! See you there. I agree with bobby (as usual) for young man, he knows his stuff !!!!

screamforadream
09-05-2012, 09:14 AM
Alright alright DA I'm sorry to make you so angry.

On the note, i'm only a senior member cause I've been on here for YEARS and there was a period of time when I was on here almost every second of every day reading as many helpful posts that dated as far back as possible.

As for selling, it's not a choice i have much say in, it's unhappy and unsettling but I can't do anything about it.

Listen the whole point of saying anything in the first place was to show excitement towards a new show, it means good things for us.

And Allen, you knew they would have to time it like that somehow! All of our shows are so close together, I don't like it mainly because I can't attend as much as I'd like. :( it'd be nice to have one a month or so from like February-May so financial planning could be easier....but I guess the haunt shows love to have competition lol.

I've been saving in a separate account tradeshow money for over a year lol so i really can't wait to go to one this year!
It'll come down to vendors, size, tours, and extras to me, but I may sponsors friend to travel anyway to test the waters for him as a vendor. :)

screamforadream
09-05-2012, 09:16 AM
March of 2010 isn't accurate either lol, I had an account before this since like 2008(7?)

screamforadream
09-05-2012, 09:28 AM
Thanks John! Haha nothing was ever meant to be so serious lol, yeesh, if we can't laugh at ourselves who can we laugh at? I'm sorry to have apparently started a mild riot everyone! Pitchforks and flaming torches are available outside the Rosen center ;P

BigT
09-05-2012, 11:42 AM
I have mixed feelings about this show. It seems a lot of focus on the general public (our clientele). If I were a magician (I dabble in magic and have some great tricks, but not a very good magician) I would not want to see my tricks being sold at the local WalMart. It takes all the mystic out of the magic.

I think the same is true of Haunted Attractions. We spend a lot of money on effects, lighting, audio, and scares. The public comes and is terrified and amazed at the same time by those very effects, lights, audio and scares. But if they have the catalog at home, are they still going to be amazed?

In my day job, I have to attend many industry shows as a vendor (different industry). We HATE it when the general public attends these shows, because they waste all our valuable time asking us questions about how things work, and giving demos to people that are not buying. We spend so much time distracted by the public that we miss the real opportunity to sell to the professionals with the pocket book open and ready to buy. We even had to hide all of our "giveaways" (they were really nice canvas bags) because the public was raiding our booth, and we didn't have enough for the paying customers!

Just my personal opinion.

screamforadream
09-05-2012, 11:50 AM
BigT,

I hear you on that, but if the convention is in Florida, and I have a place in Connecticut and you have one in another state as well, will OUR clients be going there? That's kinda how I think about it, in a way I almost am glad that there aren't any shows that close to us, because then I don't directly concern myself with that issue. But it is a valid point, but with most things nowadays be it magic or haunts, if someone is that interested in something, can't they just google or youtube it? I mean, I type in halloween props into google and industry vendors pop up, or if i type in how to make a dollar bill float into youtube, there's actual how-to's....it all comes down to how much our clients/the general public really want to know more about haunts (in which case they're probably acting at one anyway), i doubt many (if any) college jocks and their girlfriends are going to go out of their way to go to these shows like they would to come to our haunts.... :)

so i agree and disagree at the same time, it may slightly detriment the local haunts, so they may need to really step it up, but overall it's a sign of industry growth.

Frightener
09-05-2012, 12:11 PM
Bobby, you're forgetting about mainstream internet. A friend of mine was showing me some videos one day. You know video you're playing and you have options to the right you click on and next thing you know you've gone from bikini bottom girls to star wars kid and zit popping. Well, we went from a few off topic videos and ended up with a transworld show video. If that show gets hard promoting, and videos taken by haunters, you betchya it'll be on the internet.

Lots of folks around here know what The Darkness is, only by youtube videos. It's gonna happen. Sure, it's still a smaller amount of people but the words gonna get out.

I agree. Especially with BigT's comment about magic. It's already happened. 20 years ago, scotch and soda was hard to find. Now you can just about drive an hour in any direction and find a store selling it. or order it off ebay. Look at everything as a virus. Any greatness will spread. The more technology is released, the spreading will happen faster and faster.

Music for example, back in the day you didn't see / hear of these music prodigy's like the 9 year old drummer that can play anything, and perfectly just about. But because of sources like the internet, it's nothing to see 12 year old Steve Vai's whaling on the strings of a guitar like a 20 year veteran. 25 years ago you wouldn't have heard about him unless he was "found" by a promoter and he took him to the world.

It's gonna happen, I guess. Just make the best of it and do what you can. That's another reason to keep innovative. The same will get old and boring and "ahh that's been done and we know how that works" So I guess we should just look at it like.. "well, it's a show for PROPS and decor... " So how much of your show depends on the props and decor? How much of your show is YOURS and NOT, Gore Galore, and Midnight Studios, and Scarefactory?

Sorry, drinking got started earlier than expected. Don't mind me if I rambled.

Dewayne

drfrightner
09-05-2012, 12:14 PM
I guess I misunderstood there... sorry! Anyway let me defend tours in general and honestly I don't care who's tour it is. Apparently all these tours people are doing are really expensive at least in your opinions. I disagree. You want education, you want idea's, you want some inspiration, you want to see other haunts, you want to see something different, experience something outside your market, whatever, whatever, whatever.

For someone to rebuild their show, spend all that money, hire all those people, get insurance, go through all that stuff for one night and you think they should let you in free or just whatever they charge during the normal season is an outrage. What you are basically asking them to do then is work their ass off, and flush a lot of their money down the drain just for you just because you are a haunter. That is nuts! Why don't you do the same during the season... why not let all your guests in free? Look and this is just being honest here... many of these haunts out there are totally ripping people off and I mean totally. Some of you guys are charging $25, $35 and yes I heard the other day a haunt in GA is charging SIXTY DOLLARS ... I've spent millions on the Darkness and I finally raised my price to $23.00, when some haunts in yes believe this or not in my own market are charging $25.00. There is one haunt so bad filled with blast plastic particle board walls, and everything else and they charge more than I do.

There are a lot of haunts out there in it for the money grab... then we have haunts like 13th Gate who will be opening for the industry later this year and they have spent several hundred thousand dollars to rebuild this year. I know they spent all that money because of the industry tour not because he was concerned about what the local customers would think. See he's gone over and above because of this tour, and he's staying open longer, adding some special things just for this and yes it cost more money. Oh well... if you don't like it don't go but don't be a baby and cry about it. Some of you guys that cry about this stuff also charge $30 $40 bucks with a speed pass to enter your haunt. Do you think that is a rip off... for the same price I can go to Six Flags. Will there be people saying that wasn't worth it... ahhh yeah! But does that stop you?

This whole industry has way to my hypocrites honestly, we want more more more and we want to pay less less less... look this is the only industry on the planet who thinks everything should be free! Why... because you have a lot of information rolling around out there and that is because you have some very wonderful people out there like Allen for example or Haunted Overload guys for example who will share information without a second thought. These guys are great for this industry, because we I would agree also have an industry where more people share info than any other industry. So this is good and bad, because we've created this black hole tunnel so to speak where people think things should be free, while on the other hand there are business people who value the education of what is being offered. This is an industry of many do it yourself people, and this is a business of many who want to buy those props, or buy that information. If this was the amusement park business they just buy they can't build a 30 million dollar ride... they must buy.

In this industry you have so many creative people with so many different backgrounds you just never know what someone can or can't do by themselves... so the point here is we have a huge chunk of this industry who can do, then those who can't do, then those who can do but want to do better... and the list goes on.

Stop being so negative about everything and realize you if you own an attraction are trying to make money and some of you are charging way more than you should but if you think you can get it and that is what makes your business successful who am I to judge. If a haunter is running an event for the industry and they are going to put a lot of work and effort into it and they want to charge $1000 you can either attend or not attend. Its really not your place to judge unless you attend ... was it worth the $1000 or not? If Universal does a behind the scenes, which they do, and if I was in town and it cost $1000 I would buy the ticket, and not think twice about it. What is $1000 in the bigger scheme of things... if your goal is to become the best haunt in your town then a thousand bucks is a drop in the bucket. When I started in this business I flew around all over the country visiting 2 to 3 cities every Halloween trying to figure out what everyone was doing. How much do you think that cost me... let me tell you THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS!

I saw some REALLY REALLY bad haunted houses let me tell you... and even in the worst haunts I saw there was always something that made all the effort worth it! So even if I was walking through the worst haunt I had ever seen, which I think I did see a few of those (LOL) I still experienced something to make my investment worth the trip. I never valued things by how much money I spent to experience something, I only took away what I experienced, learned, not what I spent.

This industry has made it fairly easy to obtain lots of good information be it from all the videos we've sold, someone else has sold, all the seminars, events, tours ... see none of this existed when I started. You had to do it the hard way... now that its so easy you have ten times the people expecting more more more and offer less less less.

Bottom line appreciate what people do, and seize it because those experiences are worth their weight in gold. Why do I know so much... I've been to 20 IAAPA Shows, 20 plus Transworld Shows, visited hundreds of haunted houses, talked to people, once spent $2500 to do a sponsorship seminar, flew all across the country to see things, and I've never ever put a value on education, experiences, or anything of the sort... it has always been part of the quest for knowledge. I've always been willing to try something new, even if it meant losing lots of money, if in the end it offered more knowledge to myself.

The most important thing you own is your brain... what is really cool is that your brain can store more things than a 1 million square foot storage locker! So fill your brain with everything you can and stop the crying! If you don't like something don't do it but understand the only one losing out in the end is YOU!

Now actually I'm the hypocrite because I don't leave my bat cave anymore, I'm an old hermit, you never see me at these shows anymore. But that doesn't mean I don't know I should be and would in a second and I know one thing for sure... if I did go I wouldn't be crying about what they charged to get in. When I go out of town I'll pay pay pay to hit as many places as I can to see new things and take lots of photos.

Anyway enough with the soapbox... the original point was the new show. If they have events I'm sure they will all be worth it for the traveling haunter who should be on a non-stop quest for knowledge and worth while experiences! And the two or three tickets it cost you from your haunt shouldn't be a worry especially if you can turn the experience into 1000 more tickets sold at your place the following year. That is how I look at all these things.

Larry

mindtumor
09-05-2012, 01:43 PM
Now actually I'm the hypocrite because I don't leave my bat cave anymore, I'm an old hermit, you never see me at these shows anymore. But that doesn't mean I don't know I should be and would in a second and I know one thing for sure... if I did go I wouldn't be crying about what they charged to get in. When I go out of town I'll pay pay pay to hit as many places as I can to see new things and take lots of photos.



Life is too short to be a hermit, even for someone that has been everywhere and thinks they have seen everything.

I think a lot of the people that complain about the tour prices are the people that see these tours as entertainment, not a learning experience. Yeah, $150+ is too expensive to pay for entertainment unless you have a lot of disposable income, but its not that much to pay for a business/learning opportunity.

drfrightner
09-05-2012, 05:31 PM
Jared,

Any and all entertainment experiences are worth what you think they are worth... Kiss concert was getting $500 plus a ticket, a plunge down to see the Titanic will set you back $50,000 and the list goes on. But you are right as an educational experience these tours are worth every penny. If you don't agree your haunt is probably one of those haunts who do about 1000 people and open only on Halloween and your pissed because you can't figure out how to get over the hump with your own haunt. Wake up there is a way to get it done just start with not being sour 24/7. If this is what you want to do jump in with two feet and do everything you can to learn... buying some animation that will break the day after you buy it won't get more customers to your door!!! WILL NOT HAPPEN!

What will get more customers to your door is being a good business person, someone who knows more about running the business, than making people scream... now when you can do both then you will be a huge success! That I can promise you!

It starts with the business side, and rolls down into the haunt the event itself. Trust me!

Learn everything you can and make part of your budget to invest in education be it videos, magazines, seminars, tours, taking trips to see places and things and or doing seminars out of this industry like sponsorship to whatever. It all adds up and makes you a better business owner, smarter business owner, and a more successful business owner. All the people who cry like babies about what something cost will never make it because they are not tough enough to do what it takes to make it... take the risks, make the sacrifices they just want everything handed to them on a silver platter. Sorry doesn't work that way.

Lastly Jared I LOVE TO SEE THINGS... I just don't go around and see haunts anymore. I go to all attractions no matter what they are I visited several recently in Myrtle Beach, additionally went to LA and saw tons more. I've passed seeing haunts, I'm looking for the moon the stars and the galaxy. I'm looking for the big over the top next big thing idea's... I go to Disney's California Adventure and marvel at the place! Trust me I get out a lot just haven't been visiting haunts.

Larry

john haines
09-05-2012, 07:51 PM
You've been on here for years (as I have) you are entitled to your opinion. Don't apologize for ANYTHING. You are a true gentleman, HUGELY successful business owner, and create some of the most informative posts on this whole site. (That help others). Stand up for what you believe in. I (as others , I'm sure) Side with you and value your opinions.

screamforadream
09-05-2012, 08:47 PM
Hey John, they aren't idiots lol don't get me back I'm trouble! Hahaha, everyone has an opinion, it isn't that serious.

And you're completely right Dewayne!

As for the worth of tours, YES it is suppose to be educational, BUT I've done a LOT of free tours, and will give ANY haunter my full knowledge in a heartbeat :) And I won't charge extra for it! If I ever opened up fr a tour, I'd charge my normal price if I had to staff it, or free if I didn't. Although I only use volunteers, I always feed them, and spoil them rotten with water, cough drops, and candy lol so they'd get the same treatment.

Yes this is a business, and it needs to be profitable at all costs in order to have a good time and grow, but we can't take more from our fellow industry workers to better ourselves otherwise we'll never grow.

Whenever I have done a show, it's made a profit in year one, then doubled attendance year two (which every haunt should do) and then a slower exponential growth onwards. With my own now, I hope to do even better but time will tell (still trying to find a way to not sell lol).

Bottom line, trade shows are a sign of growth, and a place to learn, buy and network, there is no reason to jump up the price of anything just because it's "educational", and you don't need to do major renovations either, cause the hundreds of people from the surrounding states probably never saw your how anyway so renovating it wouldn't really affect the opinions of those who go through and then you don't have to hike the price up to make your "buddies" help eat the cost of your itchy trigger finger lol.

drfrightner
09-06-2012, 12:05 AM
Bobby,

If I go to Legendary Haunt Tour and btw I just looked TWO HUNDRED AND NINETY FIVE DOLLARS PER TICKET... while at the same time a ticket to 13th Gate this Halloween season is (DRUM ROLL PLEASE $25.00). I didn't bother to look up House of Shock but I'm sure its in line what everything else so hmmm... that is a HUGE difference in price normal season and haunt season. But am I bitching, crying and ripping on them for it... NO because I unlike other don't see it the way you and many others do.

You can't complain about the price of something you don't buy, you don't attend, or something you consider to be to much for what is offered. That is NO different than you saying the cost of a new Corvette is too much money... so then go buy a Ford Escort. They don't drive the same FYI! LOL

The bottom line and I'm sure we all agree we are way off subject here... but I wanted to say I'm not posting all this because I'm defending haunt tours in general no no no ... I'm pointing out how narrow minded people really are. When you sit and wonder why is Netherworld doing 80,000 people and you are doing 8,000 people why is that? Are they better than you? Can they buy something from a vendor you can't buy? Do they have access to some secret sauce that no one else can obtain?

The answer is NO NO and NO AGAIN!

The difference is a very successful haunt operation will spend a lot of money on knowledge, they will hire people to do things for them and pay good money for it while other people say the same old thing 'that is too much' or 'i can do that myself'. I hire all kinds of people to help me, very talented people, I like to work with talented people because that makes what we are trying to accomplish better!

Most of you guys are afraid to spend $3000 or even $10,000 on a good website, videos, photos or whatever, but won't hesitate to buy some broke in two seconds animation. That is why you struggle... you should be putting as much if not more money into the business side of the business and believe in the fact that it takes money to make money. Those willing to risk everything reap the highest rewards. Your approach of that is too much, but buying some half welded animation for $5000 isn't... again this is why most haunts struggle.

I know I'm talking up a tree and most dont' understand or are unwilling to accept the reality but again that is why someone starts Run for Your Life zombie runs and they gross like 750,000 to 1.5 million for a one day event, because they want to get it done they go all out. With my haunts I go all out... I've lost money yes, I've made mistakes but I've learned from them every step of the way. And just because one mistake might have cost me a lot of money doesn't make me afraid to try it again with a different approach.

When you understand this you will be able to really see your dreams come full circle!!!

As for my own personal haunt tours we charged basically double the normal season price and that isn't unfair what so ever... $50.00 per person to see the haunt with actors is nothing. That is TWO tickets for most of the haunters out there... and as for what everyone else charged or is charging MORE POWER TO THEM! They put themselves through unlimited amounts of stress for the haunt industry to run them over the coals I say more power to ya! Next time charge 5 times the normal season price, even if half the people come you'll gross the same and have half the people ripping your haunt on some message board.

Here is a line I just came up with ... because I do think almost everyone in this industry has tons of passion for it. This industry is so passion driven that drives us to all these different conclusions, differences, and debates, which btw are okay in my book. But I will say that Passion will get the door open, but understand Passion doesn't pay the bills! At the end of the day passion for haunting is great, but passion won't pay your marketing bills, your actors who will burn your house down for $10.00, or your rent or anything else. It's always great to turn a passion into a business, but it is indeed a buisness and with that you must remember you have responsiblities to everyone who works for you, companies you do business with and your guests... and unfortunatly all those things don't get done for nothing. No one should open their haunt to an entire group of people no matter who they are for nothing, to lose money, or even to break even... because that won't keep your passoin going to the next season. During the season we have tons of haunt owners who stop by to see us... and when I know they are coming we always let them in and do our best to talk to them. You always want to do everything you can for your fellow haunt owner and believe it or not that is exactly what this post is trying to do... help haunters understand the reality of this business.

Larry

mindtumor
09-06-2012, 06:21 AM
Jared,

Any and all entertainment experiences are worth what you think they are worth... Kiss concert was getting $500 plus a ticket, a plunge down to see the Titanic will set you back $50,000 and the list goes on. But you are right as an educational experience these tours are worth every penny. If you don't agree your haunt is probably one of those haunts who do about 1000 people and open only on Halloween and your pissed because you can't figure out how to get over the hump with your own haunt. Wake up there is a way to get it done just start with not being sour 24/7. If this is what you want to do jump in with two feet and do everything you can to learn... buying some animation that will break the day after you buy it won't get more customers to your door!!! WILL NOT HAPPEN!




I'm not sure if you were saying I'm sour or other people are sour about prices. I can assure you I'm not sour or pissed about my haunt attendance, or the tour prices, or how much it costs to see the Titanic, lol. It can be tough to tell exactly what people mean from posts, but I wasn't being negative about costs just in case that wasn't taken correctly.

I'll clarify just in case my post was taken wrong. I don't think ANY of these tours are too expensive for what I believe they are. I have learned stuff the times I've paid for tours, and I will pay for tours in the future to learn things. I THINK( but I'm not sure) people complain because they don't look at doing these as education, but as entertainment after their season or while at the Transworld show or whatever. I don't agree that they are entertainment first but whatever. If you can't afford something, you can't afford it, bottom line. But that doesn't mean it should be cheaper just because you can't afford it. People will complain about prices of tours, quality of tours, how the tradeshows are, hotels, food costs, etc, etc, from now till the end of time. It's just human nature. And we will probably being discussing tour prices on here from now till the end of time.

screamforadream
09-06-2012, 01:23 PM
Larry,

You ARE right, to an extent. You had a humble beginning yourself, and you ARE a success story, but you and I are more alike than you thought.

I have spent every penny to my name to build a scream park, literally, I have less than $50 to my name right now with the exception of my trades how account which I wont be touching anytime soon lol, but I've taken the largest risk of my LIFE. I haven't bought any broke in two second animations. I've been buying used but well taken care of smalls, restoring and improving old pieces, and making sure that everything I have LASTS.

I've brought on some VERY talented people to help make my scream park a reality, all for it to be potentially lost due to a circumstance I could have never foreseen.

I Have had tremendous success and even more tremendous failures, I may not be one of the best in the country yet, but give me 5 years and I'll be a household name. I plan for growth. I plan my marketing. Hell I spent more on marketing and my website (still under construction) than I did on the haunt. I planned a VERY large marketing blitz to begin one week before we open, and everyone in the tri state area would know about us.

And as for your netherworld secret sauce reference, you're right! But you don't need to pay for knowledge in this industry. The search bar on these forums provides more answers than any other resource, and tours don't cost money to give, I would never make another haunter pay for information I learned for free or taught myself. That's just greedy, not narrow-minded. So anyone out there who is on this forum and wants a FREE behind the scenes tour, call me anytime (203)988-2440 or text :) I would gladly help any haunter out however I can! :)


I know a lot, but I also know that I don't know a lot of things. This is the last ill talk about me, I'm not that important or narcissistic lol

Larry,

You have been and still are a role model to me, I can only hope of being on the same level as you one day in the future years/decades. I don't think anything you said is wrong, but I believe I can achieve and do just as much in the future without spending so much or asking for so much. It's merely a different approach. Not meant to be disrespectful or insulting in the least bit buddy. :)

john haines
09-06-2012, 04:36 PM
I became a FAN of Halloween Productions back in 1994, and bought all of their video tapes and DVD'S. Sure, the prices of things go up, that's expected, and for the quality Larry and Jim Kelly provide in their haunts and shows, they (to me) are worth every penny of admission price. My first video tape from Halloween Productions was called "How To Create Your Own Haunted House-Part 1". I still have it, and it still works. I have the original LONG VERSION !!! It ran about 2 hours. It (though dated) is still a hoot to watch !!!

Larry once said that he began his haunted house career in his apartment building when he was a child in the basement (good spooky location !!!) and charged 20 cents or something for admission. He's such a nice guy, he probably would have let you go thru twice !!!

Anyway, it just goes to show that if you are DETERMINED, and fight tooth and nail, and work hard everyday at what you LOVE to do, you will succeed. Larry is proof of that. Back in 1994, I was looking for "SOMETHING" to do in the haunted house business. Not really get involved in a haunt as like an owner, but just to commnunicate with other haunters and enthusiasts and exchange ideas. Because of Larry, that all happened. First it was by his magazines, then the internet exploded. This forum and website is just great !!!! So many ideas and opinions to be exchanged here. A free wealth of knowledge as we know it. Bobby, you have that same dream. Stick with it. Open and build your haunted attraction. Remember, we all make mistakes. You are a determined young man and a great DJ. All of your DJ knowledge can tie into your haunt project somewhat.(the use of sound and lights) I wish you only the best and THANK YOU LARRY and JIM for all you've done for Halloween, haunted houses, and the haunt business in general. I have yet to visit Larry's haunts. I hope to do so this year. I have been amazed for years at the incredible detail, over the top scares, and a DISNEY -type quality that cant be surpassed. Hope to see you this Fall in ST. LOUIS for a visit. Thank you Larry and Jim for everything you have done for the haunt business. I know you have more in store for us. THANK YOU !!!!

Marr Branch
09-06-2012, 07:01 PM
It sounds to me like you guys need to get laid. I think you are all members of the "I can't get no pussy club". Sorry if that offends , but I dont give a shit.

Deathwing
09-06-2012, 07:34 PM
It sounds to me like you guys need to get laid. I think you are all members of the "I can't get no pussy club". Sorry if that offends , but I dont give a shit.

HAHAHAHA That is too funny, fantastic! Lol

Jake

Gahaunter
09-06-2012, 11:12 PM
When you sit and wonder why is Netherworld doing 80,000 people and you are doing 8,000 people why is that? Are they better than you? Can they buy something from a vendor you can't buy? Do they have access to some secret sauce that no one else can obtain?

The answer is NO NO and NO AGAIN!
Larry

I think the answer to the above question is wrong. Yes. Yes, they do have access to a "secret sauce". It's called money! Now hear me out. Netherworld has worked hard to get where they are. I remember back before they moved to their permanent digs in Norcross. I certainly believe that Ben deserves it but they didn't start out with attendance numbers like that. Thats almost 20 years in the biz. You have to work into it. You can't deny with 80,000 in attendance and millions of dollars invested that they have purchasing power that the smaller haunts don't. They can buy plenty of things others can't. You mention every year how much you spend on renovations to the Darkness for the haunt tours and it is money well spent. The show looks great. You are heavy hitter too with much influence and cash. I mean neither one of you (Darkness or Netherworld) have the purchasing power of say Universal Studios, but being a larger haunt does afford you more things. Maybe it's not what you meant? Surrounding yourself with uber talented people usually comes with a high cost (if you want the best).

For the record, I totally respect you and admire your haunt and your passion. Understand, I don't have an open haunt so I've got no dog in this fight. I do have a question though. Your above statement is confusing to me. It seems like your using circular logic. I'm not trying to start an argument just looking for clarity.

In your above statement you derided most of us little guys and smaller haunts by saying we shouldn't be spending money on a 5K animation. However, when talking about haunts you constantly talk about detail, detail, detail. Detailed sets, detailed photos, better costumes. You say how we have to think bigger and put on more spectacular shows to draw more audience. But how can someone do that if your putting it back into the business as you just said? So I guess what i'm asking is where should people spend their 5K? Website, marketing, show? It seems like there are conflicting answers. Not everyone can have a mega-haunt. So for those of us smaller owners/operators what's your advice?

I do agree with you. Passion alone does not equal success. I've met some really successful haunt owners who were excellent business people that lacked passion. I've also met some great haunters with an indomitable spirit who make lousy business owners. Personally, I've had a string of bad luck when it comes to business, as of late. Lots of folks want to be in the game but not everyone knows how to play. It takes all kinds.

drfrightner
09-06-2012, 11:32 PM
Couple of things here...

What I meant on Netherworld is just like you said they started off small and poured everything they had into it... I know Ben and Billy well. Those guys kept their real jobs until what 5 or so years ago. Those guys like many others had real jobs and kept them for most of the haunts life, and more recently they dumped those jobs and haunted year around. You only get money to expand and get bigger from being totally committed to doing things the right way.

But if I asked Ben to step in here for a second he would say exactly what I'm going to say right now... for the first several years he toured haunts, he went to seminars, he bought all the videos, did all the shows, and spent money like wildfire seeing, doing, and trying to learn himself. In fact little known fact here... before Ben ever had a haunted house he was working for Silo-X and the first year I opened Darkness he came by and went through. I didn't know him then... Ben to this day can tell me every single scene in the original darkness. So what does that tell you right there???

My point is very clear... the people who sit around and cry about how things aren't fair, or things cost to much, and take jabs at people who are trying to do something positive are the same people who are stuck in reverse, or simply don't have haunts and are just upset because hey the World isn't fair! I'd say you are probably voting for Obama... I'll vote for Milt btw.

My point to be even more clear is there is nothing out there that cost to much in fact this is an industry where things are not what they should be... I buy a script writing dvd from Final Draft cost $250.00, someone in this industry makes a great two hour how to dvd sells it for $50.00 and they are grave robbers! This industry needs to wake up and realize as attraction owners we are charging a LOT OF MONEY for our events probably WAY MORE than they are worth, and those same people complain about someone who opens their haunt for a special event and charges double ... whatever and go fly a kite.

The people who do attend these events are the people who are willing to do whatever it takes to get better because they understand.

I want to support all haunt owners and I do EVERY SINGLE DAY... and some of these idiots in this industry just don't realize. Take today for example... I'm talking to some major newspaper and they are talking about amusement parks. What did I do?? I talk about how they have so many people jammed through there is why an experience at a locally owned haunt is better scarier experience. I'm ALWAYS promoting the SMALL BUSINESS OWNER because even though you might think I'm a big time haunt owner or whatever... I'm NOTHING MORE THAN A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER nothing more or less. So we are all in the same boat. This is why I write the articles like the one on the front page of Hauntworld right now to help my fellow haunters think a head of the curve.

I will do everything I can to support this industry... so my posts are meant to push people in the right direction however some people can't hear they only like to hurl insults!

I've grown up enough to not care about that stuff anymore!

Oh well...

Larry

Gahaunter
09-06-2012, 11:37 PM
Larry,

Believe it or not. Silo-X is where I first met Ben so many years ago. LOL

Thanks for clarifying. I totally get what you're saying now.

Speculo
09-07-2012, 06:34 AM
First I must admit I have not read this entire thread... no time! I did see us mentioned so let me say a few things...

The secret sauce is not money... but it might be the bun and or the meat!

The secret sauce is satisfying the customer. I have seen many folks most in fact that brought tons of money to this game and lost it all time and again. ANY effective venture is the result of having your customers want to come back and bring other people. The truth is most of us want to do what WE want to do and that may not be what the customer wants. The same thing goes for Haunt Tours or Conventions or anything. If enough people are happy with the result and you haven't overspent, you get to keep going!


It is not the price it is the price to value ratio. And no matter what you do if people consistantly leave unsatisfied then you will fail. Now you cannot please everyone, even the best movies have critics, but you need to create an experience folks want to repeat.


Think about this... It is more about TIME! Yes your haunt or whatever costs money but it also costs time. We are all busy and if you take someones time with your event and the event is unsatisfying for whatever reason they will not come back.

Now HOW do you make YOUR customers happy with YOUR haunted house?

Solve that riddle without screwing up your business and you will win I think!

Greg Chrise
09-07-2012, 09:31 PM
Okay, we all have to think much bigger, here is a link to stadium capacities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stadiums_by_capacity

Go look at that mass of people during some capacity event and figure out how they would all get to your one night haunted car port and actually pay money too. And be really satisfied. It's that simple.

One scary car port, 500 porta potties, no problem. Make sure the neighbors are invited for free.

Marr Branch
09-08-2012, 04:53 PM
Sorry about previous post. No more forums while drinking.

spookjj
09-09-2012, 12:35 AM
Competition is good most of the time, it's obviously tempting because of the location and in order to grow the industry it's better soley for this reason. I hope it does well, really surprised Transworld would be involved since it's so close to STL convention. I'm wondering if they're testing the waters here, and maybe thinking of relocating eventually to Orlando down the line sometime, wouldn't surprise me one bit. I'm exicited, let's give it a chance and take advantage.