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View Full Version : If this happened our industry would go out of business... read this



drfrightner
03-18-2013, 08:37 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/18/elizabeth-warren-minimum-wage_n_2900984.html

Read this nutty congress person from MA I think... she thinks minimum wage should be 22.00 an hour. Keep in mind Obama is aiming to raise the wage to about ten bucks or so maybe more. With all the people we need to run our haunts we couldn't afford 22 an hour not to mention it might crash our entire economy. But even 10 dollars an hour would but a beating on the haunt industry.

What are your thoughts.

Larry

CreepyCollectionProps
03-18-2013, 08:43 PM
I guess there goes your animatronic theory =)~

Deathwing
03-18-2013, 09:10 PM
I guess there goes your animatronic theory =)~

Lol I like that!

Jim Warfield
03-19-2013, 03:58 AM
Wages in 1965 and productivity in 1965 according to stats examined as of now: If wages increased with productivity they would be something like $85.00 an hour.
Of course if a great number were making such an hourly rate, where would that leave those who can't work or retired when a dollar bought more?
Productivity increased probably because of computers being integrated onto machines, which of course was not (directly ) financed by the worker operator of that machine, it was financed by the Corp. or stockholders-owner(s) who need to recoup investment money spent..the employee /machine operator would not be seeing all of the profit from increased speed or quality, but it might be nice to increase their wages more than they usually are...

Darksidestew
03-19-2013, 05:33 AM
If wages go up, our industry will suffer. Come on...Really?

Since the beginning of time, wages have gone up. The more money people make the more money they spend. If people are making more...Im charging more. Its just that simple.......

Also, more people will come because they mske more money. Do you think alot of mininum wage earners can go to a 20.00 haunted house when they make 7 bucks an hour? They have to work over 3 hours to go to your house now.

Stew

Joe P
03-19-2013, 08:51 AM
That we have been so suckered into this mindset that if we make more you spend more. If they make "MORE" withot doing anything to "earn" more then the only thing will happen is all of the cost of living will go up which does nothing but keep the poor in the poor house. Its not just the hourly wage that makes people poor. Its bad choices...lottery, beer, cigs, too many kids 22 inch rims on your honda. So yes take more from me to give them more and guess what you might get their vote (which is all they really want) but you wont be better off. By making me have less (who runs two of his own business and risks my OWN capital to succeed) you wont make anyone else better off. Oh sure they might get more on their EBT or the Govt can pay for some more pet projects to get brownie points, but punishing the maker to cater to the takers will eventually land us all in the poor house! Now thats SCARY! Next year I am doing a themed Haunt called OBAMACARE! Its a haunt where a bunch of blood thirsty mindless Zombies are caring for the old sick and weak. Should be a HOOT

ShatteredFX
03-19-2013, 12:12 PM
If minimum wage goes up that much im closing shop and working at mcdonalds....

Motograter
03-19-2013, 12:47 PM
If wages go up, our industry will suffer. Come on...Really?

Since the beginning of time, wages have gone up. The more money people make the more money they spend. If people are making more...Im charging more. Its just that simple.......

Also, more people will come because they mske more money. Do you think alot of mininum wage earners can go to a 20.00 haunted house when they make 7 bucks an hour? They have to work over 3 hours to go to your house now.

Stew

I agree with you Stew 100%. I recently lost my job a year ago, a very well paying job. Since then I've found new employment 5 months ago but my pay has been cut down in half. I now have to think about things before I make any purchases at home and I can't spend money like I used to. I could see myself not visiting my local haunted houses this year just because I don;t have the extra money like I used to.

HordeOfUndead
03-19-2013, 01:21 PM
This would definitely hurt the haunted house industry just based on how many actors we all need to put on an awesome show.

I agree, we could charge more for admission or re-budget how many real actor scares needed vs. investing in more animatronics/special FX and hope we can still give our guests a great experience.

Short of that, it comes down to taking a hit on any profit to be made in future seasons if minimum wage were to jump considerably.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I read in The Wall Street Journal a few weeks back if minimum wage does get bumped to the proposed $9-10 range, it won't actually take effect until January 2014.

If that's true we will at least be OK for the upcoming season at the current minimum wage rate.

In either case this article talking about $22/hr is absurd!

TheGreatPhantasmo
03-19-2013, 01:53 PM
I'm almost positive my Haunt Owner pays all of her employees at leas $10/hr already because she values the people she has.

I dunno about other places, but here in MA (where Warren is from) you can make $22/hr and it would STILL be hard to afford to live. I'm always shocked by how cheap it seems to live in other parts of the country.

wickedfarmer
03-19-2013, 03:20 PM
I pay my staff $10 an hour too. A few get a little more who are part of set up crew. People we are at maze from 1 pm till closing get a good home cooked dinner as well and we dont bother to clock them out for their 15 -20 minute dinner time. Dinner is what you would think of as a farmers dinner, chicken or pork loin, crock pots full of mashed paotatoes, baked beans, sweet corn from garden. And before you ask yes my wifes cooking helps in employee retention. For a few guys those are about the only home cooked meals they get all week. Haunt has 20-25 actors, 3or 4 parking lot security, 6 maze cops so non family payroll is $350 an hour.

Don't worry about the $22 rate...aint happening.


Wicked Farmer

austind
03-19-2013, 05:25 PM
I think some times they just say something crazy like $22 just so when they pass a $12 min. people will thick how lucky they are not have to pay $22. Its just a game to them and we are the we are their puppets.

Phatman

NightmareAftershockLLC
03-19-2013, 05:31 PM
Obviously these folks suggesting this rate have never taken an economics course.

Jim Warfield
03-20-2013, 09:34 AM
So then instead of 20 employees you drop back to 10 or even just 8, will this make your haunt safer? No. Will it make it easier for vandals to wreck your place during business hours? Yes.
Having cameras everywhere looking at every nook and crannie is worthless if one person has to watch numerous screens.
There has to be a certain number of employees with eyes, ears and legs to find and address any developing problems before they escalate otherwise owners are at the mercy of whatever walks in the door.(and then refuses to leave!)
My place is not just seasonal, so I can make people wait to come in , sometimes.....

NightmareAftershockLLC
03-20-2013, 09:41 AM
Regardless, an increase of minimum wage does nothing for anyone. Lol

Jim Warfield
03-20-2013, 04:03 PM
25 yrs. ago when my admission was $2.00, my biggest competition was the $5.00 can of beer bought illegally from someone old enough (hence the $5.00 investment.)
The actual "Cost" of live entertainment also has to include some of the expenses of travel to arrive and return. The price of a gallon of gas , ex cetra plus money for incidentals like a pop or burger and admission.....
Working 30 hrs at 8$ might make the decision for a great many to stay home so they can buy groceries instead.

hacksaw the clown
03-21-2013, 11:41 AM
im from ma,she isn't calling for 22 an hour,she is simply stating that if the min wage increased with the cost of living it would be around 22 per hour. honestly,who can live off min wage at its current rate.i pay my guys 10-12 per hour.like the old saying goes..pay peanuts and get monkeys

Deathwing
03-21-2013, 11:46 AM
im from ma,she isn't calling for 22 an hour,she is simply stating that if the min wage increased with the cost of living it would be around 22 per hour. honestly,who can live off min wage at its current rate.i pay my guys 10-12 per hour.like the old saying goes..pay peanuts and get monkeys

Not totally accurate. At Knotts they hardly paid anything. Most acors work very hard and deserve a lot more than they get but they are there ebcause they want to be there whether it's $7.50 or $12.50 an hour. It's not a job you work just to do I think you are into this sort of stuff, horror, legitimate acting, costumes, etc and that's why they are there regardless of pay rate. Those people you're paying 12 would do it for 8 because they are IN TO it.

Jake

austind
03-21-2013, 12:30 PM
Who really pays min wage. Our McDonalds are paying $10 around here. The haunt industry has enjoyed the fact that people don't act for money but for the passion of being a haunt actor. How many of your actors have good paying jobs and do this for fun. I know a lot of professionals that do it for the love of the scare and being able to bring out a alter ego they can't show in thier every day life. It's nice to roll play and pretend in a world of political correctness that we now live. If people said the things they say as a actors in real life they would have 100 personal protection orders against them and be in jail.

As far as pay goes there is such a split in paying actors out there it's incredible. Sub-contract, volunteer, or paid. Everyone has thier own opinion on this and there is no right answer for the industry as a whole. That is not a subject that we can resolve on a forum setting.

As far as $22 dollars hr min wage they are playing games, if they put $22 out there and get people scared, they feel when that when they pass $10 to $12 we will think how lucky we are it's not $22. Just like taxes, at our current tax code the US will take in more tax revenue in 2013 than ever in history and we will feel good about it even if they still take a small raise in taxes, thinking we dodge a bullet. They play the game of puppet master and we just go along for the ride.

hacksaw the clown
03-21-2013, 12:36 PM
knots berry farm id like to think of as the exception.in new England,especially Massachusetts,min wage is 8.25 after deductions..alot of people wont get out of bed for that rate and I cant blame them at all. again,22 an hour isn't the rate she was calling for,she was simply stating that if min wage has kept up with inflation and the obscene profits big business makes then it should be 22 an hour. it makes sense actually.try supporting a family on 22 an hour in boston is tough never mind 8.25 that's just a joke

JamBam
03-21-2013, 12:51 PM
The article makes a point about if the worker productivity improvements were coupled with Cost of Living what the min wage would be. A GREAT discussion point.

That said, what was the ticket price of your haunt when you started selling them?

What was minimum wage at that time?

How much has each increased? Who is further ahead?

Here is some info from the labor dept. It was ten years before the last increase from 1997 to 2007 with two auto increases. Now it has been four years again with no increase.

Apr 1, 1990 $3.80

Apr 1, 1991 $4.25

Oct 1, 1996 $4.75

Sep 1, 1997 $5.15

Jul 24, 2007 $5.85

Jul 24, 2008 $6.55

Jul 24, 2009 $7.25


Bottom line is much of the same target demographic that the minumum wage helps is our customer base. Many kids are living at home and can spend money on haunts like movies, games, and misc. How many haunts out there were down last year? The fact is that many haunts have priced themselves out of reach of many of their customers as discussed on another thread.

As some haunts have said, they pay more than minimum already. Maybe those that are paying exactly minimum are getting what they are paying for?

Darkangel
03-21-2013, 01:01 PM
I think haunts have had to price their haunts at the high number now just to exist. I talk to a lot of haunters and visit many every year. When you stop and see how many paid actors they have and the insurance cost and the marketing it took to impress the guests with their shows and to attract new guests, it costs a small fortune to do a good show. Nowadays I wouldn't touch the concept of opening a new haunt for under 300k at least it just couldn't compete against a strong haunt with sound business sense. It's not like it used to be with black walls and volunteers, its a real business and like any real business it has real expenses and they need to charge what they charge to continue to exist and try to turn a profit. It's a new era now.

DA

hacksaw the clown
03-21-2013, 09:38 PM
That we have been so suckered into this mindset that if we make more you spend more. If they make "MORE" withot doing anything to "earn" more then the only thing will happen is all of the cost of living will go up which does nothing but keep the poor in the poor house. Its not just the hourly wage that makes people poor. Its bad choices...lottery, beer, cigs, too many kids 22 inch rims on your honda. So yes take more from me to give them more and guess what you might get their vote (which is all they really want) but you wont be better off. By making me have less (who runs two of his own business and risks my OWN capital to succeed) you wont make anyone else better off. Oh sure they might get more on their EBT or the Govt can pay for some more pet projects to get brownie points, but punishing the maker to cater to the takers will eventually land us all in the poor house! Now thats SCARY! Next year I am doing a themed Haunt called OBAMACARE! Its a haunt where a bunch of blood thirsty mindless Zombies are caring for the old sick and weak. Should be a HOOT

really? are you so blinded by fox that you just assume poor people make bad choices and with more money they would buy rims and smokes...dude,that is the thinking that cost the gop the election,stop judging people you don't know or understand

Darkangel
03-21-2013, 10:06 PM
really? are you so blinded by fox that you just assume poor people make bad choices and with more money they would buy rims and smokes...dude,that is the thinking that cost the gop the election,stop judging people you don't know or understand

Open your eyes he doesn't need a news network to think for him like the PC minded liberal democrats of today. Open your eyes and the truth is there more often than not people are poor in their own accord.

DA

hacksaw the clown
03-21-2013, 10:19 PM
my eyes are open,wide at that.i was a union firefighter for 20 years,most poor people are poor because of job loss thru no fault of there own,sickness,age,no education again thru no fault of their own,there is nothing to back up your claim that the poor are poor due to their own accord,NOT from 40 oz beers,smokes,and drugs.turn off fox for christsake.poor people aren't the shitbags you think.rich people,now there are some shady chracters for you,their the real shitbags.anyways this forum isn't the place for this so im done

MDKing
03-22-2013, 06:24 AM
Hacksaw,

Im assuming you've never lived in an inner city neighborhood in a big city? If not, do that for a couple months and you'll see much of what these guys say is correct. Nice cars, nice clothes, no job, despite being abled bodied. I used to sit on my front steps and literally watch my tax dollars being abused and they felt entitled to do so. Not all poor people are lazy my parents worked hard and did the best they could as many poor people do but to say rich people are automatically worse is just not true and just as much generalizing as what you accused the other guys of saying.

Allan

Darkangel
03-22-2013, 07:51 AM
Hacksaw,

Im assuming you've never lived in an inner city neighborhood in a big city? If not, do that for a couple months and you'll see much of what these guys say is correct. Nice cars, nice clothes, no job, despite being abled bodied. I used to sit on my front steps and literally watch my tax dollars being abused and they felt entitled to do so. Not all poor people are lazy my parents worked hard and did the best they could as many poor people do but to say rich people are automatically worse is just not true and just as much generalizing as what you accused the other guys of saying.

Allan

Exactly!! Thanks Allan apparently he now thinks rich people are all bad. Only lazy people filled with hate and jealousy and shame because of their inability or willingness to make something if themselves hates rich people for being rich. There is good and bad in both classes of people.

DA

hacksaw the clown
03-22-2013, 09:22 AM
Exactly!! Thanks Allan apparently he now thinks rich people are all bad. Only lazy people filled with hate and jealousy and shame because of their inability or willingness to make something if themselves hates rich people for being rich. There is good and bad in both classes of people.

DA

if you reread my post youll see that I said I was a firefighter for 20,in the city,where I met lots of poor people,there not all bad,in fact I bet some of them go to your haunt don't they. so please,go back to discussing haunts and not your hatred toward the poor.

hacksaw the clown
03-22-2013, 10:01 AM
Warren Buffet's take (more about how things should work) which I've always loved: "Let's say that it was 24 hours before you were born, and a genie appeared and said, 'What I'm going to do is let you set the rules of the society into which you will be born. You can set the economic rules and the social rules, and whatever rules you set will apply during your lifetime and your children's lifetimes.' And you'll say, 'Well, that's nice, but what's the catch?' And the genie says, 'Here's the catch. You don't know if you're going to be born rich or poor, white or black, male or female, able-bodied or infirm, intelligent or retarded.'

john haines
03-22-2013, 05:07 PM
Thank you for hurting us !!!!!! (bunch of losers !!!!!) you dont see them giving up anything or giving anything back..........

Darkangel
03-22-2013, 06:23 PM
Warren Buffet's take (more about how things should work) which I've always loved: "Let's say that it was 24 hours before you were born, and a genie appeared and said, 'What I'm going to do is let you set the rules of the society into which you will be born. You can set the economic rules and the social rules, and whatever rules you set will apply during your lifetime and your children's lifetimes.' And you'll say, 'Well, that's nice, but what's the catch?' And the genie says, 'Here's the catch. You don't know if you're going to be born rich or poor, white or black, male or female, able-bodied or infirm, intelligent or retarded.'

Oh lawd have mercy you sound like a left wing liberal democrat. Being an enabler makes a person a part of the problem and does not solve the issues. No one said poor people are bad. But there are a hell of a lot of poor people abusing the tax payers and although they may be friendly and neighborly people they are leeches and destroys a nation. And you said rich people are shady but then you quote one if the richest men in the world, go figure.

DA

hacksaw the clown
03-22-2013, 09:04 PM
thought you could relate better..lol. listen dude,lets agree to disagree and keep politics out of this forum.no hard feelings,were both haunters and that's what makes us more alike then politics making us different

SAWDUST JONES
03-26-2013, 12:50 PM
If wages go up, our industry will suffer. Come on...Really?

Since the beginning of time, wages have gone up. The more money people make the more money they spend. If people are making more...Im charging more. Its just that simple.......

Also, more people will come because they mske more money. Do you think alot of mininum wage earners can go to a 20.00 haunted house when they make 7 bucks an hour? They have to work over 3 hours to go to your house now.

Stew

Since the beginning of time... we know when minimum wages are artificially raised... so the cost of all goods and services are raised to adsorb that cost increase. Minimum wage increase don't happen in a vacuum. So the $8 minimum wage earner who now earn $16 an hour will have to pay $45 to attend a haunted house... and you same people will argue the same thing... how can a person only earning $16 an hour attend a $45 dollar haunted house?

Do you really think you can raise minimum wage and not have that increase be passed onto everything?

Funny, the poorest folks out there, who live off the public like parasites, always seem to have the latest games and games systems, expensive coiffures and custom acrylic nails, and fist fight each other every year to buy the newest $300 tennis shoes at the malls. People somehow afford what they want to afford.

The only reason government chooses to raise minimum wage is because union wages (whom certain political parties are beholden to) are raised relative to minimum wages rising... so to pay back all those good union members who fund certain political campaigns... minimum wages are raised.

Beyond that, minimum wage is designed for people getting entry level jobs, people who have no skills and hope to gain them on the job... that said the economy has been destroyed the last 5-6 years, moreso the last 4, and more and more jobs are becoming minimum wage jobs so the business can continue to operate.

Obamacare does have the potential to destroy haunts depending on how the IRS, etc. decides to determine seasonal employment. They have already ruled that 28 hours now is legally defined as full time.

Read for yourself how government intends to deal with small business "whiners" like haunt owners....

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/03/20/Obamacare-May-Cost-Small-Business-Whiners-65-of-Annual-Profits