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Deathwing
06-12-2013, 03:24 PM
I can't be the only one to think this, but seriously all silicone mask makers can we call it a day with the realistic old man masks? There must be a dozen or more old man masks by various artists. I just did a search looking for new masks to potentially buy and it's old man after old man. Does anyone really find them scary at all?

I'd like to see the mask makers of the world try some new designs!

Anybody with me or is it just me?

Off my soapbox now.

Jake

Front Yard Fright
06-12-2013, 05:02 PM
I brought this up to Ian from Real Flesh FX after he posted his new mask. He had said that a large part of their sales are from their human masks. While the haunted house market is a big part, he said that without the other, they wouldn't be able to continue operating.

Deathwing
06-12-2013, 06:19 PM
Zack,

I understand business is business in not faulting anyone but the ARE promoting these masks to haunters on these forums. You've seen one you've seen them all IMO.

Jake

thehorrorshack
06-13-2013, 09:22 PM
You should check out darkestfearsunlimited.com. the have some original sock masks. I know you may be looking for silicone but these look really awesome!!

sean
06-14-2013, 06:36 AM
You should check out darkestfearsunlimited.com. the have some original sock masks. I know you may be looking for silicone but these look really awesome!!

They were at MHC. Had a mask with a doo-flickie inside that you can blow air to a pocket, which makes the skull raise and lower like a heart beat, etc. pretty cool

Valley_of_Screams
06-14-2013, 08:11 AM
Sounds like a marketing issue. Seems like they should stop pushing life-like masks on the haunt industry and just focus on monsters/creatures/etc. and focus those masks efforts towards other industries.

-Tyler

Infoamtek
06-14-2013, 08:57 AM
My question has been, who are the customers for these expensive lifelike masks, and for what purposes are they buying them? This is not the kind of item you buy for a one time joke. We already know that some of these masks have been used in bank robberies and other crimes. How many other illegal activities have these kind of masks been used for? And in this litigious society, how long will it be before somebody sues the makers of these lifelike masks for their part in criminal activities?

sean
06-14-2013, 09:44 AM
I've got one, use it at the haunt for all sorts of things. Rare opportunity to have a character that talks and can answer questions, set people up, etc. https://www.facebook.com/PappyWTHH?ref=hl

jack
06-16-2013, 03:29 PM
I am so over old man masks. What is Halloween, Night of the living Grandpas?

Yes, you're a great sculptor, yes, it's excellent work. But how many old man masks does anybody need? Particularly realflesh--they use the same form for all their masks so every one looks related to every other one so it's old man who aged THIS way, and the same old man aged differently. Their Frankenstein looks like the old man--but with a squarish head and stitches and staples. Great, amazingly detailed, superbly crafted masks--of the same person. Please, buy a new form. Cast some employees. Something.

Darkangel
06-16-2013, 05:56 PM
I am so over old man masks. What is Halloween, Night of the living Grandpas?

Yes, you're a great sculptor, yes, it's excellent work. But how many old man masks does anybody need? Particularly realflesh--they use the same form for all their masks so every one looks related to every other one so it's old man who aged THIS way, and the same old man aged differently. Their Frankenstein looks like the old man--but with a squarish head and stitches and staples. Great, amazingly detailed, superbly crafted masks--of the same person. Please, buy a new form. Cast some employees. Something.

I couldn't agree more. It's like every year you see a new crop of old man masks on top of the already overpopulated old man mask market. And you're right about Realflesh, fantastic masks and finishing work but every one looks the same and nearly all painted skin colored, which is hella boring. Its great for robbing banks and crime, but seriously we've all seen too many old man characters used in haunts especially if you're trying to make them your main character or icon at this point that look is beat to hell, almost getting as old as zombies.


DA

ianfxmen
06-19-2013, 06:56 PM
deleted all

ianfxmen
06-19-2013, 07:04 PM
deleted all the posts


I am so over old man masks. What is Halloween, Night of the living Grandpas?

Yes, you're a great sculptor, yes, it's excellent work. But how many old man masks does anybody need? Particularly realflesh--they use the same form for all their masks so every one looks related to every other one so it's old man who aged THIS way, and the same old man aged differently. Their Frankenstein looks like the old man--but with a squarish head and stitches and staples. Great, amazingly detailed, superbly crafted masks--of the same person. Please, buy a new form. Cast some employees. Something.

FrightProps
06-19-2013, 07:50 PM
ianfxmen I'm pretty sure this discussion isn't about you specifically. It's about the overabundance of old men masks in the silicone mask market.

screamforadream
06-19-2013, 10:32 PM
I LOVE Ian's work, and disagree about the overabundance of old
Men masks.

To be honest, silicone masks are a nich market, you must push what sells, and clearly, these are flying out of the
Molds left and right with how popular they are. I know a lot of
People order elderly masks for music videos, movies, plays, pranks etc, for performing arts, it's much more convenient to throw a young guy in an old mask than try and find a grandpa who can spin on his head on a cardboard box. ;)

I can understand why Ian was upset, the guys a true artist and multiple people brought his masks up, but Ian, it's a compliment buddy! Be proud people know your work and can admit publicly how freakin well it is made! Haunters, myself included, are hard to impress and stuck in our ways sometimes! It's nothing personal. :)

Keep up the great mask making Ian, I enjoy seeing the different masks and paint schemes everyone puts out for silicone masks, I wish I had that skill!

jack
06-20-2013, 05:15 PM
Ian, you misjudge me. I LOVE your work. Great texture, fabulous paint jobs. They just all look alike. I know you're dealing with the limitations of the silicone, and I appreciate that. But I don't understand why you can't find several different cores with different facial structures but the same overall dimensions. I have 3 different 'average guy' heads, 3 'big guy' heads, and two 'little guy' heads(not as many female heads, but a variety there as well) all cast from customers or friends. It's not hard to get them

Your stuff is great--but, right now, to anyone with any familiarity with it, it has an 'I've seen this before' vibe--because each looks so much like the mask next to it. If you had some different facial structures to work with your stuff could blow everyone out of the water.

Nome of this is meant as a jibe. Maybe as a nudge, you know?

ianfxmen
06-20-2013, 07:25 PM
deleted all





Ian, you misjudge me. I LOVE your work. Great texture, fabulous paint jobs. They just all look alike. I know you're dealing with the limitations of the silicone, and I appreciate that. But I don't understand why you can't find several different cores with different facial structures but the same overall dimensions. I have 3 different 'average guy' heads, 3 'big guy' heads, and two 'little guy' heads(not as many female heads, but a variety there as well) all cast from customers or friends. It's not hard to get them

Your stuff is great--but, right now, to anyone with any familiarity with it, it has an 'I've seen this before' vibe--because each looks so much like the mask next to it. If you had some different facial structures to work with your stuff could blow everyone out of the water.

Nome of this is meant as a jibe. Maybe as a nudge, you know?

Darkangel
06-20-2013, 08:50 PM
Ian, I think you should consider what happened with spfx. They were first for silicone masks and were super hot for a year or two but then CFX came out with a much broader selection and styles and many more monster and character masks and they blow spfx away to the point where they are virtually irrelevant in the haunt industry and just sells key component equipment for bank robberies, aka realistic and old man masks.

CFX and immortal are growing because they try new techniques, and add more vibrant paint schemes and that's what people really want.

Hope this helps you out. If your core is realistic masks that's where you should focus of course but when approaching haunted they seem to want monsters and interesting looks.

DA

Infoamtek
06-20-2013, 11:25 PM
Ian, what Jack is trying to say is ALL of your masks have similar wide, flat noses, broad, flat foreheads, wide chins, deep nasolabial folds, and flat against the head ears that curl slightly out at the top. If they are not all brothers, then they are all cousins in a very inbred family. Moving wrinkle lines around does not really change a sculpt if the basic form is the same. Expand your photo morgue and look at different faces. Push out the cheekbones, narrow the nose, point the chin, change the temporal line, make the ears go straight out, just do something really different.

drfrightner
06-21-2013, 12:55 AM
I for one would never buy an old man mask, or for that matter a mask to make a person into another person like a black guy, or some thug looking guy... silly!

I want monsters, zombies, etc, etc... nothing more and the more creative the better.

On the other hand I would agree that there are people out there especially bank robbers who do want those masks... I've also noticed many movies now are using old man masks for example for bad guys to wear into a bank or whatever. I also remember one of those Knoxville movies where he wore an old man masks, and had balls hanging out of his shorts freaking out people... it was funny.

I do agree that maybe lots of people want them for all kinds of reasons but from a haunted house perspective I would never buy a normal looking person mask or an old guy mask. Again I know they are probably popular but many of these mask guys are making them and yes there is probably too many now.

Bottom line you can't go wrong with MONSTERS!!!

Go MONSTERS!

Larry

Gore Galore
06-21-2013, 06:05 AM
Ian,

I really don't think anyone is taking a jab at you.
As a matter of fact I think you have just been given a crazy gift that most vendors would kill to know.
One of the hardest things in this industry is knowing what to do next.
And now YOU know.

drfrightner
06-21-2013, 08:45 AM
I agree with Kevin, I don't think anyone is talking about any company just in general. I think when silicone masks first came out old man masks and thug type masks where some of the firsts... so this goes way back. And now with all these new companies seems like everyone has old man masks, thug masks, or whatever. I think the comments are more in general and I tend to agree actually... but only if we are talking about the haunt industry. But any mask company doesn't just sell to the haunt industry so sure I'm betting you are right and you sell lots of them. Any good business man is going to make what sells, and if they sell make them... however I simply think overall haunters want monsters.

Larry

Infoamtek
06-21-2013, 09:19 AM
Ian, what Kevin says is right. We're not trying to cut you down, we are trying to get you to break out of your comfort zone and expand yourself as an artist. Don't think about what is safe to do in making a silicone mask, but how far can you push the boundaries. I'm putting on my Art Director hat (a job I did for about a decade for a magazine publishing group) and giving you an assignment. Do an old witch/hag face. Push the forms, exaggerate the features in the rough sculpt, then pull it back just a bit.

jack
06-21-2013, 05:56 PM
Hey, Ian, you think you could post a picture of the core you use?

oakhillshaunterTHEFEAR
06-22-2013, 08:45 AM
I have no artistic skill of the level of any of these mask makers. I think its phenomenal! That being said I do think that one particular company can try something a little new. One of the previous post about CFX and SPFX is true. The one started it all (pursay) than CFX came in with the different ideas and they look interesting.

HOWEVER,

The overabundance of human like old man masks is no existent. There are dozens of different mask makers with thousands of different ideas for mask other than the human like old man mask. Whatever the case I still can't wait to get a crap load of masks FROM EVERYBODY!

YIPEE! Lol.

ianfxmen
06-22-2013, 08:48 PM
deleted all

scarygoat
06-23-2013, 10:20 AM
Ian, I think your masks look fantastic! I would definitely love to see some more monsters!

Infoamtek
06-23-2013, 11:35 AM
Ian, perhaps this animated gif can demonstrate what we are talking about.
16621

Darkangel
06-23-2013, 02:11 PM
Ian, perhaps this animated gif can demonstrate what we are talking about.
16621


Perfect that about sums it up. Really only the zombie looked a little different the other monsters looked just like the old man. Thanks for making that gif.

Variety is the spice of life!

DA

Frightener
06-23-2013, 04:39 PM
I know JACK about masks or mask making. I've only done a few half masks and that's it, and a few full head for filling for props.

I also know JACK about any of these companies except for whats on their sites. I don't know anyone in particular, especially this Ian guy.

I DO know that no one was making jabs except for the point with the GIF and after seeing that, yes, I agree.

I have never owned a silicone mask and I still have yet to get to that point. But I'm trying.

What other things I DO know, is business. We have to capitalize on what's 'in'. Just like Brad Pitt and WWZ, which I'm about to go see. (missed my 4:55 showing for a miscalculated, unexpected NAP) So, what's this got to do with business? Well, a few years ago I told people "Zombies are the next thing. You watch, there'll soon be a zombie walk in almost every major city, a huge increase in zombie movies and before you know it, they'll be CUTE and all the kids will love them." Well, my daughter is 3yo, will be 4 this Halloween and guess what? She wants to be a zombie princess.

So, the 'new' is what we run with. The next 'in' thing. Old man masks were a HIT and once word started spreading or people's ideas of how to use them, sales increased. Businesses MUST capitalize on these 'hits' in order to keep up with the growing industry and stay in the green. So I expect that sales had a LOT to do with the making of so many old man masks. Plus, if you have a script for using more than one, it'd be nice to have more than one. Unfortunately, in case of the 'gif' company, you'd have to go to different producers to get different looking masks.

However, with all that said, understanding that it just had to happen, I sort of agree, there's a ton of them. But again, I do understand. If like, upwards of 50% of your sales are for one particular type of mask, bygolly ya better be designing more type of those masks.

I like realism and like Larry, I LOVE MONSTERS! You can't go wrong with monsters, especially ones so far fetched it's goofy to even believe it's real for even a second, and then scare the ever living crap out of someone with it.

I have no dog in this fight :P I just felt like chatting, Cherrio!

Jim Warfield
06-23-2013, 04:43 PM
Those who don't like the old man masks .. are just phobic about becoming an old man themselves?
"Take off your mask!"
"I am Not wearing a MASK!"
Screams to follow.....
Being 64 yrs. old saves me tons of money on make up! "Old Guy , Jim"

oakhillshaunterTHEFEAR
06-23-2013, 05:02 PM
Jim you're not old, you're just experienced... and weird. Its a good thing.

Alexander Gustafsson
06-24-2013, 02:26 AM
I wouldn't have minded old people masks myself if all of them didn't look so generic. If you're making one then go crazy with the features, add lumps, moles, warths, missing teeth, weird nose shapes, big ears or other things. Go for designs more like this: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=589432954411069&set=pb.204973239523711.-2207520000.1372061813.&type=3&theater or this: http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk304/raigraphixs/Album%202/Popeye.jpg

ianfxmen
06-24-2013, 09:45 AM
you are asking for a witch looking at those pics ? and why that gif pic ??? havent we already said they look familiar ? havent i already said that we are going to make more monster ? heres some pic showing all those pic same agle same icon pic will make them look even more the same......compare those instead !!!!




URL]

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/ianfxmen/054-2.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/ianfxmen/media/054-2.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/ianfxmen/021-1.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/ianfxmen/media/021-1.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/ianfxmen/0031.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/ianfxmen/media/0031.jpg.html)

I wouldn't have minded old people masks myself if all of them didn't look so generic. If you're making one then go crazy with the features, add lumps, moles, warths, missing teeth, weird nose shapes, big ears or other things. Go for designs more like this: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=589432954411069&set=pb.204973239523711.-2207520000.1372061813.&type=3&theater or this: http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk304/raigraphixs/Album%202/Popeye.jpg

ianfxmen
06-24-2013, 09:46 AM
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/ianfxmen/IMG_1830.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/ianfxmen/media/IMG_1830.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/ianfxmen/IMG_1472.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/ianfxmen/media/IMG_1472.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/ianfxmen/IMAG0592.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/ianfxmen/media/IMAG0592.jpg.html)

ianfxmen
06-24-2013, 09:47 AM
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/ianfxmen/163_zps9f2d331f.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/ianfxmen/media/163_zps9f2d331f.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/ianfxmen/1362099331885_zps5ffecbb8.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/ianfxmen/media/1362099331885_zps5ffecbb8.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/ianfxmen/IMG_2647_zpsa77a30b1.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/ianfxmen/media/IMG_2647_zpsa77a30b1.jpg.html)

ianfxmen
06-24-2013, 09:48 AM
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/ianfxmen/IMG_3543_zps93efcc11.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/ianfxmen/media/IMG_3543_zps93efcc11.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/ianfxmen/562160_612729788756256_1896880080_n_zpsd7530209.jp g (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/ianfxmen/media/562160_612729788756256_1896880080_n_zpsd7530209.jp g.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/ianfxmen/IMG_0766_zpsb3424e5a.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/ianfxmen/media/IMG_0766_zpsb3424e5a.jpg.html)

ianfxmen
06-24-2013, 09:48 AM
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/ianfxmen/IMG_3599_zpseadc58a4.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/ianfxmen/media/IMG_3599_zpseadc58a4.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/ianfxmen/IMG_3568_zpsfcaad369.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/ianfxmen/media/IMG_3568_zpsfcaad369.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/ianfxmen/IMG_3590_zpsed8a24f1.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/ianfxmen/media/IMG_3590_zpsed8a24f1.jpg.html)

ianfxmen
06-24-2013, 09:49 AM
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/ianfxmen/1016089_641023335926901_1530624674_n1_zps1ebbde6a. jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/ianfxmen/media/1016089_641023335926901_1530624674_n1_zps1ebbde6a. jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/ianfxmen/IMG_3749_zps9b4679d4.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/ianfxmen/media/IMG_3749_zps9b4679d4.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/ianfxmen/IMG_3721_zps6a576a63.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/ianfxmen/media/IMG_3721_zps6a576a63.jpg.html)

Darkangel
06-24-2013, 09:51 AM
I think frankenstein should be much darker green, but that's my opinion. Plus, I don't know too may haunters who would want a terminator mask for their haunt? I could be wrong though.

Honestly, I think you should try to have 3-4 different sculptors with their own style sculpting for you. That would pay huge divedends for you I think. Good luck!


DA

ianfxmen
06-24-2013, 09:54 AM
deleted all the posts

Alexander Gustafsson
06-24-2013, 11:02 AM
you are asking for a witch looking at those pics ? and why that gif pic ??? havent we already said they look familiar ? havent i already said that we are going to make more monster ? heres some pic showing all those pic same agle same icon pic will make them look even more the same......compare those instead !!!!

Nope, I was just using that mask as an example of how to make an old person mask with a more elaborate design. Not sure why you got so riled up by my comment, it wasn't targeted at you specifically. Just to silicone mask makers in general. And I never posted any gif pics.

Infoamtek
06-24-2013, 12:02 PM
Ian, you sound just like a Volkswagen Beetle aficionado arguing about the differences between the '62 and the '66 models.

ianfxmen
06-24-2013, 12:45 PM
deleted all the posts

ianfxmen
06-24-2013, 12:47 PM
deleted all the posts



Ian, you sound just like a Volkswagen Beetle aficionado arguing about the differences between the '62 and the '66 models.

Infoamtek
06-24-2013, 01:23 PM
Perhaps because underneath the hair and color, they're still the same shape mask. Any halfway decent makeup artist could do the same effects on a regular face and save the haunt the cost of buying an expensive silicone mask. Changing the shape of the face adds verisimilitude to the portrayal. That is what masks are really for. To create a look you can't do with just makeup. That is what we are trying to tell you.

Deathwing
06-24-2013, 04:04 PM
I think that Infoamtek deserves a free Real Flesh mask for his inclusion of the word verisimilitude! Well done, and of course I agree 100%.


Jake

jack
06-24-2013, 04:40 PM
So, no pictures of the core on it's own then?

ianfxmen
06-24-2013, 06:35 PM
deleted all the posts

ianfxmen
06-24-2013, 06:43 PM
INFOAMTEK we listened to you opinion and respected it giving back our own opinions but you keep replying that annyone can do mask like that,that anny cheesy makeup artist can paint what we do on anny face so no need for masks like ours in the haunt inbdustrie. that all our mask are the same,that we paint then all flesh,that they all look ordinary etc etc .We got your point sir but you keep on going.... you sound like a competitor in need of putting down is adversary ?? i respect the fact that you dont you dont really like our work and we thank you for your opinion.


Perhaps because underneath the hair and color, they're still the same shape mask. Any halfway decent makeup artist could do the same effects on a regular face and save the haunt the cost of buying an expensive silicone mask. Changing the shape of the face adds verisimilitude to the portrayal. That is what masks are really for. To create a look you can't do with just makeup. That is what we are trying to tell you.

Infoamtek
06-24-2013, 10:50 PM
I never said I didn't like your work. It's good work. I just feel that you can do better and seem to be too timid to go beyond your comfort zone and push your craft to the next level. I am trying to give you constructive criticism so you can give the customers something really special. If you can't accept that and use it, I'm sorry.

Allen H
06-24-2013, 11:03 PM
All the horses are dead. quit beating them. He may very well have accepted your input completely, he just cant produce a different looking mask in the time it takes another person to post they all look the same. Give him a few months to knock out a new design, then if you want you can tell him how similar it looks. For now lets all move on, please.
For the record I think the message of similarity has merit and it was recognized, but the more it is said the more it is sullied and the angrier everyone is getting.