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Mr. Haunt
11-25-2007, 11:13 PM
I have been doing some brainstorming and I have come up with an interesting idea. I know that it might sound a little far fetched, but I think that it could work out.

I have been thinking of a way to get any haunter rather it is a home haunter or a professional haunter involved with one of the biggest Halloween attraction events ever created. This event would take place in Minnesota. Why Minnesota? There is a large area of opportunity available for something to this large-scale event that I have located.

It would be a joint effort from everyone who wants to get involved including other Halloween based businesses. The main purpose of this idea is to give money to a good cause. I know that most of you give a donation to a charity or foundation, but I was thinking of a foundation that is larger then most people probably donate to. Something that is in very importance to people that would affect their way of living in a positive way.

Being that the industry is getting bigger and better, I think that this might be a good time to do something of this scale. This could potentially be something that is expanded over the country or world.

I know that it would be competition for some haunts, but being that this mega type attraction that is big and unique, it would be highly regarded for what it is we do.

This event would be marketed at a high level to draw people from all over. We would have a well-detailed web page, events taking place all hours of the day; events that pertain to all ages of Halloween thrill seekers. Instead of the generic hearse and spooks for parades, there would be a hearse with actors, but there would also be a very detailed float(s) that would help bring in more people. I believe the more you “show off” the business and what it is we do, the more people will say “WE GOTTA GO TO THAT”!

I understand that many professional haunters may not have the time to work on such a large event, but if there would be a small group from each haunt that is willing to help organize and operate this event, I believe that the opportunity would be worth it as it would be special to those who are passionate about Halloween and their creations. Each haunt or haunter would be recognized in some form or fashion for his or her participation rather it is full time or part time.

Now I know that you are wondering about funding, right? Well when it comes down to start any business it always comes down to this point. Well for starters, would it be for-profit or non-profit? That would be something that we discuss at a later time. Would there be private investors? It’s a possibility.

I wanted to see if anyone would be interested in something like this and am interested in any comments or ideas. As you can tell, I am ambitious and full of creative ideas.

Think about this for a little or at least think “outside the box” like me. This would be something totally different then your typical attraction. Very special and unique in it’s own way.

Ask questions if needed.

Brian

Nightmaretony
11-26-2007, 11:57 AM
Sure. have you read up about small business and drawing up a business plan?

Cute creative ideas. We all have them. got notebooks of them. Useless until a solid business can be made for them. Cash flow and payback for investors and such things. Fancy hearse and website won't help if the basics aren't there.

TheNightMare
11-26-2007, 01:39 PM
Are you taking like Disney and Six Flags type of event?

Jim Warfield
11-26-2007, 06:12 PM
I really hate it when Mr. Tuxedo , Spookhouse cat here "Thinks Outside The Box."
Nothing usually happens without the idea first.
For some reason (I may be wrong?) I don't see people from far and wide spending the time and the money (and lost income) to attend any event far away from where they are located "in season".
Is the haunted business really "growing?'
Maybe some retired or semi-retired haunters might like to wheel their Winnebagos across the USA and do something potentually fun and interesting?
I might be retiring when the last shovel of dirt completely hides my final hiding place up on Cemetary Hill.

"Hey Kids! I have an idea! Let's have a talent show in the old gym! Everybody would come and we'd make enough money to buy old Mother Hubbard's dog a bone and save the day!"
"Spanky, you paint the backdrops with Spike's help and Captain Kangaroo will show us how to make a fortune selling Stone Soup!"
Close up of elderly frumpy old maid saying, "Well! I Never!"
Groucho adding, "We all know that you never and this world is a better place for it!"
Seriously though, maybe some people should begin to add up the man-hours needed just to plan and organise such an event.
A nice donation of office space and free phone service for a couple of months would be a good place to begin.
My personal "Dream" took several years of non-stop thinking and talking to a great many people, most of whom were not the least bit interested, but it only , in the end took two with the vision and the extra cash and my own sweat equity.
20 years later...I'm still sweaty.

Nightmaretony
11-26-2007, 06:42 PM
And every time Mr. Tuxedo thinks outside the box, you have to go clean it up to refresh the supply of Mr. Tuxedo Surprise Moustaches!

Greg Chrise
11-26-2007, 07:44 PM
Until I saw a news report tonight about how the dollar has dropped and now people all of a sudden come to America to buy all the luxuries as opposed to the rich going to Venice to buy fine crafted leather shoes, or to Paris for the latest fashions. They did it because it wasn't better but, because it was half the cost of hand crafted goods here.

In country it is cheaper to air condition 9 months out of the year in the south and build a building for that purpose than it is to heat one up north for 4 months or so. Less expenses in less stress and less you actually have to do to get by if you are an underachiever. If you are in the frozen tundra you have to be a big time go getter just to make a mediocre survival.

The first thing I did was look at the current temperature in Minnesota=18 degrees where here in Texas it has been 68 in the day and at lowest 40 at night.

Down here a big industrious parade float would probably get shot at for being too happy.

So it's a stand off, I'm not buying a coat and chances are you won't get past Arkansas with your parade float.

Jim Warfield
11-26-2007, 08:15 PM
Left to thoroughly dry in a sandy, dry environment, Mr. Tuxedo's "Products" get as hard as bullets (depleated uranium with a ceramic coating , not mere lead)
A parade float made of these would be very tough facing even an all-out attack of some magnitude. (Tieing up Mr. Tuxedo's Production quotas for many years butt it would be profitable being a government defense contractor I think)
We could double-profit by selling those waiting to ambush the float their special Tuxedo bullets, already the right shape, probably at least 50 caliber.
They would be a pure terror inflicting weapon as they were made to tumble after exiting the barrel making a screaming similar to a big cat in heat!
Possibly THE last sound some would ever hear.

Mr. Haunt
11-27-2007, 10:48 AM
For those who have asked, this is the price information on all amenities that this location offers. It would be something to the nature like Disney or Six flags. There would probably not be any rides or anything of that nature unless the budget would allow for such a thing.

On the business plan question, no there has not been one started. I would rather know about who was interested and to hear some of their ideas before work on a business plan was started. I also don’t want to take this event head on by myself either. This is one reason why I would like to know who is interested in making this a possibility.

As for the weather, I have been a Minnesotan all of my life and it does not bother me one bit. If it bothers you, then too bad! Minnesota is a wonderful state. Yes it gets cool and sometimes chilly, but you cant be to picky when a location like this is available! Hey it has only snowed once in October and that was in 1991.

Mr. Haunt
11-27-2007, 10:51 AM
We offer more than 320 acres of versatile space with 25 buildings available to rent.
Facility rental rates are based on basic rent for use of buildings
only. All additional services provided to an event, and costs
incurred by the fair as a result of an event, are charged to the
event. Listed below are the current rates for various expenses.
Arts Center: 18,000 sq. ft. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1,050
Baldwin Park: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$550
With stage . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$800
Bandshell: seats 2,500 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$850
(benches not included in Baldwin Park or at the Bandshell)
Cattle Barn: 117,450 sq. ft., 1,044 tie rings
Livestock/Equine rate* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$575
Commercial rate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1,800
Campgrounds:
North Camp Lot – $500 minimum per day, or $15 per site, whichever is greater
Warner Coliseum:
Seats 5,250, 32,400 sq. ft. arena, 10,500 sq. ft. of concourse area
Livestock/Equine rate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1,400
Commercial rate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$2,200
Education Building: 33,000 sq. ft. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1,450
With annex - 12,000 sq. ft. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1,850
With theater - 320 seats . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1,650
Entire complex . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$2,050
Empire Commons: 22,000 sq. ft. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$925
Grandstand:
First floor - 60,000 sq. ft. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$2,700
Second floor - 39,000 sq. ft. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$2,000
First & second floors - 99,000 sq. ft. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$4,700
Infield . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1,100
Home Improvement: 11,200 sq. ft. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$550
Horse Barn:
Livestock/Equine rate*
Entire barn (514 stalls, 105 tie stalls, 16 pony) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$425
South half (300 stalls) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$300
Commercial rate – entire barn . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1,000
Commercial rate – south half . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$875
Horse Barn Annex*: (84 tie stalls) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$185
Judging Arena*: 8,000 sq. ft., 168 tie stalls
Arena only . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .no charge
Arena with tie stalls . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$250
Merchandise Mart: 11,200 sq. ft. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$750
Miracle of Birth Center
& FFA Chapter House: 18,320 sq. ft.
Miracle of Birth Center (15,120 sq. ft.)
FFA Chapter House (3,200 sq. ft.)
Livestock/Equine rate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$725
Livestock/Equine with FFA Chapter House rate . . . . . . . . . . . . .$825
• Add to Coliseum . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$625
Commercial Rate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$950
Commercial Rate with FFA Chapter House . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1075
• Add to Coliseum . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$825
Modern Living: 9,840 sq. ft. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$550
Parking Lots:
Blocks 6 & 7 (North Lots) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$525
Blocks 8 & 9 (North Lots) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$525
Block 22 (North of Grandstand) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$525
Block 27 (West of Grandstand) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1,575
The fairgrounds are a great place to host:
◆ Corporate parties and meetings ◆ Sporting events
◆ Sales and trade shows ◆ Large group and community functions
◆ Automobile, motorcycle and motorcoach assemblies ◆ Equestrian and livestock events

Mr. Haunt
11-27-2007, 10:52 AM
2007 Event Rate Sheet
Facilities · Equipment · Labor · Rates
Block 40 (Midway parking lot) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1,300
Block 55 (South of Como Ave.) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1,800
Block 56 (South of Como Ave.) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1,050
Livestock Parking Lots:
Lot “A” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$150
South Side of Block 40 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$100
North Side of Block 40 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$150
Progress Center: 26,600 sq. ft. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1,300
Sheep and Poultry Barn: 53,900 sq. ft., 230 stalls
Livestock/Equine rate entire building* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$350
Livestock/Equine rate half of building* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$275
Commercial rate entire building . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1,000
Commercial rate half of building . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$750
Swine Barn: 81,000 sq. ft. 230 stalls
Livestock/Equine rate* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$350
Commercial rate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1,000
Warm Up Arena: (south of Coliseum)
Livestock/Equine rate* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .no charge
Commercial rate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$550
4-H Building:
First floor (30,000 sq. ft.) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1,250
Second and third floors . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$775
Second or third floors . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$525
First, second & third floors . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1,750
Dorms (depreciation per person) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1
Ground Lease: with third party facility . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $125
Outside Restrooms: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$125
Rates include a 16% assessment for capital improvements.
*Rental rate based on renting facility in conjunction with Coliseum
and for stalling purposes only.
Equipment:
Tables (8' x 30" Banquet Tables)
• 1-3 event days . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$5/each
• 4 or more event days . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$7.50/each
Folding Chairs
• 1-3 event days . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$.50/each
• 4 or more event days . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$.75/each
Clear Coms (Coliseum only) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$15/unit
Benches . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$5/each
Bleachers . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$35/each
Picnic tables . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$10/each
Wooden barricades . . . . . . . . 10 complimentary/$1 each additional
Personnel barricades . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$2.50/each
Dumptruck . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$55/hour
Forklift . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$55/hour
Skid steer loader . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$55/hour
Snow plow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$80/hour
Tractor . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$80/hour
Trash truck . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$25/hour
Truck . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$15/hour
Water truck . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$40/hour
Ticket booths . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$75/day
Post pounder . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$125/day
Vehicles based on a one-hour minimum. Rates do not include
operators labor. Labor and forklift charges shall apply when
renting tables, chairs, riser sections, ticket booths, etc. All rental
equipment is subject to applicable sales tax.
Labor Rates:
Event Supervisor – On-Duty . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$27/labor hour
Setup & Tear down . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$19.50/labor hour
Event attendant . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$17/labor hour
Ticket Seller . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$13/labor hour
Ticket Taker . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$11/labor hour
Police Officers . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$29/labor hour
Parkers/Barricade Attendants . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$13/labor hour
Reserves . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$20/labor hour
Skilled Labor:
Electrician . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$80/labor hour
Carpenter . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$80/labor hour
Plumber . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$80/labor hour
Painter . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$80/labor hour
The hourly rates quoted above for skilled labor (electricians,
carpenters, plumbers, and painters) are based on a Monday
through Friday, 7:00 a.m. to 3:30 p.m., schedule. Other times
shall be charged at prevailing overtime rates.
Rubbish:
Regular rubbish removal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$10/yard
30-yard rolloff . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$250-$375
Pallets . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$5 each
Tires . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$7 each
Manure:
Composting . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$3.50 - $7/yard
Transportation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$85 - $300/30-yard transport
All Rubbish and manure charges are based on market rate and are
subject to change without advance notice.
Electric:
Electric consumption charge . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $.07/kwh
Basic charge (cost based on transformer being used)
Electric charges are based on market rate and are subject to change
without advance notice.
Parking: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Free
Phone lines:
Phone lines are available at a cost of $200 for the first line and $160
for each additional line. Long-distance charges shall apply and will be
billed accordingly. Activated, non-commercial phones lines in the
livestock complex are charged at $50 per phone line.
Sound, Lighting and Staging:
Allied Audio Services is the State Fair’s in-house provider of sound,
light and stage equipment.

Mr. Haunt
11-27-2007, 10:56 AM
Some of these buildings have a fire suppressions system (sprinklers, alarm, & emergency lighting).

The largest of the buildings (The Grandstand) has all fire systems. This building has two floors. There is a large ramp and elevator to the second floor.

Any other questions?

Brian

Nightmaretony
11-27-2007, 11:03 AM
Sure. That covers ONE aspect, the space rental.

next question: the haunt assets. Budget towards those?

Then the business aspects of permits, insurance, payrolls, staffing. How is the budget for those?

TARGET MARKET: What is the proximity to major cities, what kind of attendance can be had, what kind of advertising opportunities?





No, am nmot being mean. Am simply asking the hard questions that have to be answered for you to make it work.


I'm doing the homework for mine as well. We all do.

Mr. Haunt
11-27-2007, 11:08 AM
I know that the rent costs are a bit high, and would make things interesting when it comes down to a budget.

Maybe this event will get larger over a period of time, who knows? I would not dream of charging a high price either.

Brian

Mr. Haunt
11-27-2007, 11:15 AM
Maybe this is not something for those who live a few states to far to get involved in?

I know that trucking a currently operated haunt to this location would not be an easy task, but I have some family in this kind of business that might be able to help out. They do some things for worthy causes were they live. The basically higher truckers to hall something when someone has something to hall. What a mouth full! LOL!

Instead of someone selling a whole haunt, maybe it can be donated to our event or purchased. I would believe that this might be cheaper then starting from scratch.

Just tossing some ideas out there!

Brian

Mr. Haunt
11-27-2007, 11:22 AM
As for the market, this location is located right smack dab in the middle of Minnesota’s two largest cities “The Twin Cities”. It in fact it sits on the boarders of three cities.

Another large haunt hear called Valley Scare, I believe uses a lot of volunteers for their event. They have a system that attracts “groups to volunteer”. These groups get paid “donation” depending on the size of their group. This event takes place about an hours or so more drive from the Twin Cities and is a pain in the neck to get to because of traffic issues.


Brian

Mr. Haunt
11-27-2007, 11:28 AM
There is plenty of advertisement available. Movie theaters, newspapers, radio stations, school newspapers, & the “Mall of America”, just to name a few.

Insurance? There is some place out there that I know we can find to work with. We might be able to work with the insurance company that over sees this location during the fair that is operated here in the summer.


Brian

Mr. Haunt
11-27-2007, 11:48 AM
Maybe this could be something that can give a haunter a location to haunt for the current year that does not have a loaction located for their event?

Brian

Mr. Haunt
11-27-2007, 11:59 AM
http://www.ci.stpaul.mn.us/depts/ped/planning/compplan/housing_docs/111506/Metro%20Demographics%20by%20Mark%20Vander%20Schaaf .pdf

Demographics:

Ages:

10-14 150,000’s
15-19 180,000’s
20-24 205,000’s
25-29 200,000’s
30-34 175,000’s

This I believe was taken in the 1980’s

Follow the link if you want above.

Mr. Haunt
11-27-2007, 12:41 PM
As you can see my fingers type faster then my brain can think. Sorry for the spelling, I have used Microsoft Word for some posts. But I guess not all.


Brian

Nightmaretony
11-27-2007, 02:51 PM
Raw facts there, time to collate.

1. Insurance: they want to know the scope and details of your event.
2. Advertising costs money. Period. Have you researched the stations with their rates and target audience to determine the best bang for your buck? for example, a golden oldies station may NOT cater to the desired target audience.
3. also, in regards to trucking, gas is expensive as well. Realize to truck in even a small event will run you into the tens of thousands of dollars. Is that already figured within the budget or would it be cheaper to do mucho Home Depot runs locally?

Your answers make you sound about 14 years old. When you deal with potential investors, contractors, insurance and state officials, they will be asking these kind of questions. Looking up the answers online will NOT wash .

Age isnt a factor, just knowing and being prepared for such a massive event. Realize the youngest pro haunter on here began at 14 and has been doing well for several years at it.

Have you gotten Kel's book on haunting yet? It makes a fantastic start to the factors you need to consider for a project of such scope.

Jim Warfield
11-27-2007, 07:51 PM
Biteing off more than one can chew only makes for indegestion and vomiting, usually.
Begin small, see how it goes. See how you handle it, others will see too.
This possibly creates your resume, a good thing to have (if it's good, that is) to approach the powers that be whether in local government or money people.
Everything in this life is about problem solving, but we need the "tools" to work with, experience is the best tool.
Good Luck, and I mean it.

Greg Chrise
11-27-2007, 08:04 PM
Labor Rates:
Event Supervisor – On-Duty . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$27/labor hour
Setup & Tear down . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$19.50/labor hour
Event attendant . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$17/labor hour
Ticket Seller . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$13/labor hour
Ticket Taker . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$11/labor hour
Police Officers . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$29/labor hour
Parkers/Barricade Attendants . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$13/labor hour
Reserves . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$20/labor hour
Skilled Labor:
Electrician . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$80/labor hour
Carpenter . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$80/labor hour
Plumber . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$80/labor hour
Painter . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$80/labor hour

And I gather you have a demonstrated history of making a payroll? Communicating exactly what needs to be done? Dealing with labor and city unions or organizations to this extent?

It looks to me like all the jobs are already taken and pay pretty good.

Here's one not listed. Contract attorneys.....$375/hour
Have you ever paid anyone $375?

So, yes, the buildings are large and the rates are super reasonable but, almost by definition, a haunted attraction is 99% of the time a seasonal event with the investment built in a given area over time to know what the actual market is as opposed to blindly bringing in the Billion Dollar carnival and having those people with their attorneys not answering your calls. Or having the debt collectors screw up your chance of ever being somebody.

First there would be a haunt, then a larger one, then two then proven number of cutomers as the market is developed (customers come and numbers keep increasing at a predictable rate)

You might as well say there is 4.5 gazzilion acres free to use in Australia only the head of the tribes want virgins but, other wise it will work because everyone thinks kangaroos are cute. Oh, and all those nasty looking guys from the road warriors movie want to be paid in gasoline and won't let you actually do anything by your own hand.

Also your haunt can only operate between the hours of 7AM and 3:30 PM because that is the only normal shift available.

This may sound like a bummer or me being a jerk but, historically I have watched many a haunt end up at the auction just to pay the trucking and storage yard bills, I have seen 20,000 SF haunts set up where others see 23,000 people (back in the day 35,000) and set up in the same potentially great situations and see 800 people.

I hate the entire concept of a business plan but, if you were to do a manhours listing estimate of what it takes to set up, move, operate, tear down relative to the size of some event, it gives you a known figure that you will be responcible for money wise.

Haunts that are having trouble finding a location are ones who have not yet (or have no intention of) developed a clientel, Those who have good chances of reaching a target clientel are certainly not going to move and miss out of their investment in a certain market.

I have seen over night scream parks again see 800 people, there seems to be some magic numbers here. Just having everyone arrive to a location with the best of the best still guarentees nothing. Each has a following and chances are no one will follow to a distant location.

Conversly I have seen corporations spend $150,000 in advertising with 5 lame attractions and see more than 60,000 people routinely. The difference though is that this corporation was all about utilizing their own property, not having an event at the Fair Grounds. Those events I know at the Fair Grounds strive hard to see 0.05% of all fair goers. It takes years to develop the returning clientel to do this.

The whole appeal of the haunted attraction business is that for the most part, once being complient to generally accepted rules and safety measures, you are free to run it any way you see fit. Getting on property that is publically owned means everyone is your boss.

Just the fact that the building rates are so affordable means it is either a depressed economic area or it is intended to inspire commerce that is not there in the area. Both are real bad for a start up business.

I have seen county and state fair grounds lose funding and become public land too!

And of course if anything is damaged or worn out by you or one of your customers you will be getting a bill in the mail for them to hire a subcontractor not in your control to correct or maintain what ever.

It's kind of like you are entering the Frito Lay enter as often as you like Sweepstakes and they made up the rules, so you are! They made up the rules and all the variables are readily transparent and listed publically. The liability page and bonding page don't seem to be listed.

You are so much better begining with a modest event on privately owned land without $80 per hour labor rates. Even if you showed up with 10 attractions or showed up with half an event, the first year it might be tough paying everyone $10 per hour including taxes.

Many events get everything for free and pay the help and still lose a little money the first several years. Hence a new group of inspired investors each year expecting to make a kill. Then Oh, Lordy, we have $2,000 worth of spiders and $2,000 worth of snakes we must sell now! We don't have any pictures but I guarentee these are high quality spiders and snakes. In this lot for sale are even some collectable spider limited editions! People have called from France are inquiring about our spiders and snakes so you better hurry!

Then you get 300 emails......Geez I was looking to only get a few snakes donated to my charity haunt, is that possible? It would be going to a good cause! As long as they are real scary snakes and spiders.

A phone call every morning...Okay honey, we want you to cut that credit card in half and mail it to us, okay? Do you have some scissors? Can you do this with out hurting yourself?

Big fat guys you never liked aren't leaving your couch with out a check for $5,000

The $80 an hour guy isn't letting you get your lumber back with out his check.

The other one's that didn't actually get paid aren't coming to help you move anything.

I would have trouble going down the street a few miles for this kind of action.

Mr. Haunt
11-27-2007, 09:07 PM
Well it sounds like everyone mist what I was trying to come up with.

For starters, I have been on this forum now for 1 year, so I figured that most of you would at least know who I am and why I am here. I have "Kels book", I have a subscription with Haunted House Magazine but have gotten only one magazine so they must not like me for what ever reason. I have 2 DVD's from HauntCon about starting a haunt and marketing.

I have posted many questions as well as posted replys to others.

As for the numbers I posted here these are things that the fair offers to those who wish to use the services, they are not required.

The Minnesota State Fair has been open since the 1800's, I believe, not sure on the date, but it is one of the top 5 and largest fairs in the country. I have seen the annual report from them and it is well over 1 Million smackers. This fair will never close. The land is owned by private owners as well.
I learned all this in High School 6 years ago, so I am not "14"!

The main idea for this post was to possibly create a large event that includes ANYONE that haunts Pro or Home from all over the country. The big part of this deal was to do this together as a large event for a good cause to a large foundation of some kind.

I know what markiting tools I have to work with and a general idea of costs. I just did not list them because most of you should know what they are. Yes the prices would not be the same from state to state. The person that does the marketing seminar from HauntCon is from Minnesta and runs a local haunt here outside the Twin Cities.

I guess that it's hard to keep track on this forum who is who, but I know when I get replys from most of you I know who you are. I also look forward to learning from all of you an maybe meeting some of you at HauntCon or Transworld. One thing that bugs me are some of the comments some people get on this forum and don't care for some of them, but that does not keep me from asking questions. I would not leave such comments myself because I am not that type of person.

I also know that it's important to be as "professional as possible" and to spell correctly. Trust me, If it was a requirement on this forum, I would have the dictionary in my hand as I type but it should not be a big deal here.

Halloween and haunting is a passion for me and it will never leave. I have a big heart and care for many people that go through good and bad times, that is why I became a firefighter for the short time that I was one. This is another reason why I had an idea to get you all involved in something great and for a good cause cause I like all of you and what talents you all have.

If it does not work out, then thats OK! I will find my place in the haunting world one way or another.

So once again my question is does anyone like the idea of "coming together as ONE and do something for a cause. So this would probably be Non-profit! We all posses great talents big or small and thats why I believe this event would be special. Would it be a success? Who knows?

Thanks again for comments and help!

Brian

Mr. Haunt
11-27-2007, 09:14 PM
I know that the last reply was a bit blunt, but I believe that I got to the point.

So far I have gotten ONE message from a member on this forum that understood what my idea was. I want to inlcude everyone! Just so long as they are serious haunters or are willing to learn something.

Brian

Greg Chrise
11-27-2007, 09:58 PM
Certainly 80% of the people that are into haunted events at any capacity are like yourself, super low on funds and have a great heart for wanting to help. They do it anyhow perhaps at even great personal sacrifice. The other 20% might be tremendously organized and successful, even making a living from their events and the businesses they have in and about the Halloween season. Hence the later crowd is very busy organizing and doing already and that puts them into the other catagory of being broke in either money or time or the ability to change what they are doing.

I have fun coming up with Mister Negative scenarios but, I have been to enough conventions and met everyone to determine even if they are capable of spending $300,000 on something, it is that new home they just bought in a gated community and the haunt will come second.

When I was 23ish and in a corporate environment, I got sent to a seminar that cost $2500 to supposedly learn how to be a supervisor. It was all a smoke screen to relay to the younger people that there is a corporate sociology that is just plain every where not just in corporations, it is human nature.

Summary......This is worth $2500 now.

Young people want it now.
Old people know it takes lots of time and effort and hate young people that keep asking for it now for free.

Or at least this is all I took from the 40 hour course besides lunch and a certificate of completion.

Mr. Haunt
11-27-2007, 10:15 PM
Maybe since everyone has differant ideas this could happen down the road a few years from now and I can put my 2 cents of work into every thing.


Maybe this is a better idea, most of you give to a foundation right? Well maybe a few years down the road and I meet some of you face to face, maybe we could all donate to the same foundation. It would not have to be much just a little from each haunt, just a little something to make a differance. This might also be a one time deal.


Brian

Barry
11-28-2007, 06:27 AM
While a wonderful idea, I do not see this working for a few reasons:

1. Getting people to come in from any distance is unlikely.

2. WIIFM - "What's in it for me". The people you are talking about "coming together" and contributing, what are they getting?

3. The last, and most important, control. Who is going to be in charge of it? You bring all of these people in and everyone is going to want to do things their way and when they don't get their way, see #2.

squatdaddy
11-28-2007, 09:25 AM
The days of heart, passion, and talent making up 99% of success is behind us. This isn't a new business idea and the mavericks of the industry already did that. What is needed now is what all the people here have mentioned. Let me edit myself by saying that those qualities I first mentioned are the basis but without proven real world ability the scale you want is a recipe for not only Olympic-sized disaster but frustration and disillusionment. Momentum starts with a push before it can gain any speed. Learn the ropes, the red tape, the ins-and-outs. People go to school for years for any one of the business disciplines, be it marketing, finance, sales, labor management (HR), etc... and even then academia is categorically different then real world experience... you get the picture... get your feet wet, prove yourself… strive towards that rainbow but pay your dues first.

Jim Warfield
11-29-2007, 08:04 AM
Address for sending those dues:

Mr. Tuxedo Enterprises

Ravens Grin Suite # 666

411 N. Carroll Skreet

Mutt Care all, Ill Noise


Cash, cans of wet cat food, catnip are acceptable payment.

squatdaddy
11-29-2007, 08:32 AM
Sorry Mr. Tuxedo... Gypsy is already waiting
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/squatdaddy/gypie.jpg

Jim Warfield
11-29-2007, 08:44 PM
WHAT A CUTE KITTY!

Mr. Tuxedo is now in LOVE!!! (Or is that lust?)

SomeThingInTheIce
11-30-2007, 07:10 PM
Well, I was happy to see that the parking was free.

and Jims right that is a cuite cat.

Greg Chrise
11-30-2007, 10:53 PM
It seems that you have installed the wrong sized kitty door?

Jim Warfield
12-01-2007, 02:12 AM
No, that is just kitty waiting at the "Snake Door" for his friend "Rattler" to return from egg shopping at the chicken coop.

TheCareTaker
12-01-2007, 12:26 PM
wow scarry! not even going to go there.

i only donat to one type of charity myself and it is one which has akways been a part of my life not something i just decided to give to as i am sure most do. to change that now would make me un happy sorry.

TheCareTaker
12-01-2007, 12:27 PM
here kitty kitty i have a little surprise for you!

squatdaddy
12-01-2007, 12:32 PM
WHAT A CUTE KITTY!

Mr. Tuxedo is now in LOVE!!! (Or is that lust?)

sorry Mr Tuxedo... Gypsy is a huge diva... very high maintenance... you would get tired of that quick

Jim Warfield
12-01-2007, 02:28 PM
"High Maintenance"?
How many times a week can someone tolerate getting their oil changed and their joints lubed?
Makes for sore Zertz fittings.

Nightmaretony
12-04-2007, 12:27 PM
Zertz fittings? That is the catz version? Always knew them as zerk fittings....

I can has cheeseburger?