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xxxdirk
02-05-2008, 02:35 PM
They said they will check into it and get back to me. A soon as I hear from them, I will let you know, OK?

Haunted Illinois
02-05-2008, 06:18 PM
Yeah, I called them too and got the same response. It'll be interesting to see what answer they come back with.

xxxdirk
02-05-2008, 08:24 PM
Well, if they take that away from us this year, I most likely will NOT be back. I am not one to dress up very much, but I very much enjoy seeing others dressed up. They try to make this a vanilla, politically correct thing, and I will invest my money at other conventions.

RJ Productions
02-05-2008, 08:31 PM
Remember where you are...Las Vegas...casinos....

The last thing security wants is people running around in disguises!!!
It's no different that any store that refuses to let people in masks in during Halloween.

Make-up alone might be acceptable but I'm sure only in limited public areas.
FAce it, they're not going to let Ben Armstrong in one of his AWESOME costume run around the Black Jack Tables!!! Sorry Ben!!! I'm still looking forward to this year's "visitor"!!!

Jim Warfield
02-05-2008, 08:51 PM
That dressing up can be scary!
One Haloween someone came through here with a mask on, no big deal you may think?
Guess again, it was an ex-girlfriend ! My wife wasn't too happy!
Then those strange e-mails began.......the really strange thing was that she chose the same name as a common poster on this site, which really confused me at first since I am pretty sure the poster here is a guy, a guy saying Those things concerning old , forgotten (once) precious moments?
I couldn't remember those at all!
Because they never happend!

Frankenhausers
02-06-2008, 03:10 AM
I think it is absolutely understandable for the casinos not to have people
in disguiswes running around but on the other hand: there goes the fun.
Did somebody suggest something like an open "changing room" to TW ?
When I visited Chicag in the last years, there was an awful lot of free
unused space on the second floor. I think the same will appear this year.
If they cut off a little from this empty space, put in a few tables, chairs and mirrors
and maybe a few lockers people could change or make up there. Maybe
Vendors could be asked for complemantry items for make up or removal
wich could bring their new products into peoples mothes (and faces as well)
So people who'd like to dress up will have the oportunity to go there,
dress up, make up and, after the show, remove the make up to go back
to the poker tables. That would also be the perfect place to chat and meet.
It's just a guess , what do you think ?

bodybagging
02-06-2008, 03:59 AM
frankenHauser great idea but that would mean an effort on TWs part to cater to the Haunt Industry, I dont see it happening. On that note me personally one of the best part of dressing up is not the oohs and ahhs I get from my fellow haunters, Its the gasps and shrieks that I recieve from the Norms.

Frankenhausers
02-06-2008, 09:13 AM
yeah, Rob, that's why we do it.
On the other hand, if we need an argument for that , it is that people, dressed up will get more attention in the press. And that is what TW wants and needs.
Good press. I would say it is worth a try, isn't it ?

Ken Spriggs
02-06-2008, 09:48 AM
May I be a business person for a few minutes?

There are some people that will agree with what I am about to say.....some of your jaws will drop when I say this also.

Look TW does cater to the haunted house people .... A little.....
I started going to this show...yikes...like 16 years ago or so.

I have been an exhibitor for a good chunck of those years.

There is nothing worse than giving your speech to every person that walks up to the table....just to find out they have no say so in the actual purchasing at the haunted house. TW tried to make the show go back to it's roots.....WHICH IS A SHOW FOR RETAILERS TO BUY THEIR GOODS TO RESELL

Now yes it is Halloween related....so of course Haunted Houses will need to be there......but seriously how many people from 1 company have to go to the show?
TW is not the actor friendly show where you can bring 10-15 people of your crew and turn them lose on the show.....that is why Hauntcon and MHC are out there.

If you don't sell products or you don't have a costume shop......you are the end user and you should not be able to access wholesale pricing.

Tattoo
02-06-2008, 10:11 AM
TW did not move to Vegas because the "Haunt" side of the show was growing it was because the "Halloween" side was growing. I have also been attending TW for well over 10 years, when the Haunt side of the show was moved upstairs it was HUGE! The vendors were abut 14 feet off of the bathroom walls, as the years went by the upstairs area kept getting smaller each year. Last year it was probably about 60 feet away from the bathroom wall and if you figure that at 2 aisles were talking about the loss of at least 30 - 40 vendors up there.

TransWorld is a TRADESHOW and Ken just made some very good points.

We will have 8 members of the Bad Boys there, we split our group into their areas of expertise and hit the show floor that way. We have experienced and seen first hand how exhausting an exhibitors day can be, It's a lot easier for them to deal with 1 - 2 people at a time than dealing with 10 or more.

The show will be fun because we "The Haunters" WILL MAKE IT FUN!

Looking forward to seeing everyone soon and I wish you all safe travels,

Tattoo

xxxdirk
02-06-2008, 10:38 AM
Ken's idea of having a changing area in the tradeshow would accomplish the ability of people to change and hang around the show floor and that is good and fine. However, as someone else said, part of the fun is seeing how "normal" people react to the costumes. Both the screams as well as the ooos and the pictures that they want taken with the characters.

If the vendors only want paying customers at their booth, I can understand that from having a booth at 3-4 tradeshows a year myself. However, I hope the vendors realize that I might enjoy or need to have some non buyers with me at the trade shows. Furthermore, although the non-buyers might not be the ones writing the check, they can strongly influence what I buy or who I do business with. Case in point: Last year at Transworld, I totally missed the Clown closet that haunted enterprises was selling. Just did not see the effect. Lisa, one of those "non purchasers" as Ken said told me about it, I walked over and spent $3000 at his booth on that prop as well as another $2000 that I decided I DID need cause I was there. That is $5000 that I dropped at his booth all because I had an extra pair of eyes with me!!

Jim Warfield
02-06-2008, 11:43 AM
Seeing non-haunter's reactions to costuming is sure fun!
The Stormtroopers riding the elevator at Transworld several years ago was hysterical! A young boy's eyes really bugged out and he couldn't stop talking about it! (Sort of fits right in with the good hospital-visiting work that group does)

Of course the religious meeting right next door to the Haunted Attraction ball that year was fun too! The Netherworld Vampiric creature in the hallway sure looked very real and totally believable to those people! (Well, me too!)
(Insert laughter here~)
For some reason next year a similar group was kept well away from haunters?
No FUN!

Frankenhausers
02-06-2008, 11:46 AM
I kan understand Ken's argument as a seller and it is perfectly clear that a vendor
goes there to do some business. That's what we all do there. I do my seminars and my shopping and the trest of time I try to have fun there. I think a lot of people
do it the same way and that is what makes TW fun. So I don't see what this
has to do with the question of people looking foreward to appear there for a day or two in costumes - wich had always been a part of TW and was never a problem
not for buyers and not for sellers, I presume - and please Ken, correct me if I am wrong. The changing room was just an idea to make it possible for all of
us haunters (with nearly zero efforts and costs) to do what we love to do without getting into any trouble with some safety person of a hotel/casino - wich is an
understandable problem in Vegas. The question that appears to me is only, should we go on with the idea and suggest it to TW or is it to silly at all.??

Jim Warfield
02-06-2008, 12:55 PM
Blame the cell phone! No more phone booths for quick changing!

screamline studios
02-06-2008, 06:12 PM
Face it haunters, transworld wants the retail sales, and owners of the haunted attractions, actually let me say it a different way, transworld wants you to bite there big fat ass...Now as a vendor for both retail and haunted houses we want everyone there, this is a big reason i get so pissed over this topic, i love haunts and i care deeply about the season, here is my memory of transworlds past. In 1995 screamline attended our first transworld show as years went on, and our budget got bigger, we were living the high life at transworld, not just "the "beer" or buying for the haunt but truly enjoying the interaction between the haunted house actors in costume and the retailers laughing as they just got the shit scared out of them, So if i am crazy let me know, but as a retailer wouldnt it put you in the mood from a simple scare, to buying from vendors just because the atmosphere felt right for a halloween buying frenzy...
Just some random dude

Jason Blaszczak
SCREAMLINE STUDIOS

Greg Chrise
02-06-2008, 08:41 PM
The ONLY costume, make up related vendor seems to be Gore Galore. I'm thinking these restrictions might have stopped may of the make up vendors to be there applying things to people to wander around?

But, Transworld has had to pay attention to the culture a little bit? People get bolts glued in their heads, werewolves pee on fire plugs? But, the funny occurances Jim Warfield mentioned were outside of Haunted Attractions costume ball which I'm not sure if that is making the scene?

If you are just showing up to be interactive, with out purchasing a booth you better have some back up plans like bail money, freind(s) watching out for you, a pimp and a cell phone, some jewelry that is equivelant to bail money. There is always a curtain somewhere that has been left away from a wal a few feet that instantly becomes a mission impossible changing room. Be prepared to whip $100 in the face of anyone that gives you a hassle.

But, if you are having a booth...this is what your product is all about. Change right there in the booth like a one time demo of what it takes to get into this costume and then do your thing. Build a movable temporary curtain in a corner and get into character. Then go nuts.

Yes, transworld will get back to you.....Opps they forgot about this, don't know the territory either or don't want to say no just yet. I wouldn't think there is a casino in the convention hall, this is just going elsewhere. Plus so much of being accepted is walking arund like you own the place or are supposed to e there whether it is in the rules or not.

Frankly if you go for it and you get into a big hassle it should be grounds to completely dump the transworld people. They have manifested big hassles before and if they think it should all be displays and suits, it isn't a match to the haunted house industry. If they didn't give a crap to preserve the "culture" then it wasn't about getting haunt people better facilities, it was tellng us what we are going to do. While giving them a percentage.

Unfortunately this is why there are 5 other conventions. Haunters are generally not high rollers wandering around with prepaired pre bail and prepaid legal services or a roll of benjamins to get the point across. And we should not be forced to up the anty.

Every year is the same termoil of something different or unknown reacting to some bizarre need voiced secretly by the real vendors or the real buyers and every year it is months of bitching on here. There is always those 12 people are going to go there no matter what and place their $150,000 orders. So why are all the poor people wanting to go? The real buyers aren't coming to the smaller shows and it might be cute but, not really mandatory that the NON high rollers attend.

It certainly hasn't inspired me to wish I was a high roller. It isn't what Transworld wants, it is how prosperous our individual markets across the country are. Just because I don't buy $12,000 prop doesn't mean I'm a failure. It means my market doesn't deserve this kind of investment. Similarly perhaps Transworld in the pros and cons of things either had no control over where they could have space or intend the silliness and unprofessional side shows (in their opinion) would by default go away if that group had to spend more to get there, and couldn't afford it.

Every year I come up with the same vision. The 12 high rollers just need to form a secret society and buy crap from laptops at a Howard Johnsons like the foot ball draft program.

Ken Spriggs
02-07-2008, 10:50 AM
Sorry my post may have been posted in the wrong spot.
I could careless about people running around in costumes.....but if i am rubies trying to cut a deal for $20,000 worth of harry potter costumes....I am not going to want some guy covered in blood screwing around next to my customer that has a million dollar budget.

This is a business....we should treat it as one......if you go, the fun should be after the business...since we will be in vegas i don't think there is going to be much business either.

Look I know we all bring people who aren't the money people or the people that buy. No issue there........but some of you turn 10-20 people lose on the tradeshow floor. Do you really need that many people there?
It is a show for people to buy their wholesale products that they sell in their stores.

Just because you run a haunted house........doesn't mean you should have wholesale pricing.

The Haunted house section of this show keeps shrinking
Yes Larry is right to say if you run a business and purchase products you need to be at this show. How many of you own a store?

There are a ton of people every year that should not be allowed into the show.

Our product has 2 levels of pricing...doesn't matter to me or my company
who we sell to. i talk to everyone...i have also learned to weed out the real buyers

like i said ......you may not like what I say....but think about it

Frankenhausers
02-07-2008, 11:01 AM
yes Ken,
By the example of the "Rubies Deal" I clearly see what you mean and I absolutely
agree with you. But on the other hand I do trust in the descretion of everybody
(maybe foolish ?!) not to interfere when pople do serious business talk. Of
cause that is only my point of view but to do so would never come into my mind.
As we all know - and you made perfectly clear- in the first case TW is about business
Cheers, Frank

Jim Warfield
02-07-2008, 04:42 PM
It is all about business but I think in years past there was a definate temptation on Transworld's part to flood the floor with mere "bodies" to make the vendors feel better about what they pay for floor space.
70 years ago teenagers would be chased from a new car dealer's showroom because everyone knew they didn't have the money to buy a car...but things do change and as I remember someone's statement before on this subject, just how can one determine who is a real potential purchaser, maybe they just won the lotto last week? Grandpa died, left them everything?
Life is tricky and requires "work", of course it's always nice if somehow we can make our life and work easier....but...?

Greg Chrise
02-07-2008, 05:50 PM
Then you need to kick out all the vendors who are wanting to sell to everyone and telling everyone Transworld is a MUST SEE! Quit having seminars trying to attract people who don't know what they want to do or how elite this show is supposed to be!?!

WTF?

I mean I get it but, there seems to be a lot of mixed messages here. Those same vendors that want EVERYONE to be their customers on the spot are not wanting to go elsewhere. SO then what you have said does indeed sound like the proper sales floor proceedure then Transworld tries to enforce it, then everyone is dissapointed, then the vendors that sell to everyone say it's okay again but, there is a security guard line?

I'm not going but, everyone is enduring months of how you must go and you really shouldn't. Something isn't a match here.

Greg Chrise
02-07-2008, 06:43 PM
I'm pretty sure if there is a guy that has a million dollar budget, they aren't standing for hours on that crappy ass show floor, they have the dude's name in Tiawan and Hong Kong and are getting them to bid against each other and find that extra little slave village no one has tapped just yet. He's more worried about what cargo ship his container will get on and how long it will be held in customs.

They gave a guy in India calling them every hour on the hour.

If there were million dollar contracts just waiting, Rubies would have a blimp. Or a yacht. A show room In New York City. Not 3 card tables in Las Vegas or chicago. We're talking they are catering to the $350-$1000 buyer or they would be in Walmarts conference room, Targets, Not doing the trade show circuit.

Even Rubies wants everyone there because even that fool splattering blood all over might one day decide to buy $10,000 in inventory and be somebody.

Jim Warfield
02-07-2008, 10:01 PM
The mixed message certainly! Some mixed messages end in court with a hefty jail term, some end with a marriage!
(And they wonder where mixed up kids come from?)

Ken Spriggs
02-08-2008, 08:46 AM
I'm not going but, everyone is enduring months of how you must go and you really shouldn't. Something isn't a match here.

Hmm......You need to go and think this is a business.
Not a place to turn 20 actors lose on.
That is the same reason they don't let people under 18 in the show.
They think that once you turn 18 you act like an adult........obviously we know better.

Just quit complaining...it is a great show

Greg Chrise
02-08-2008, 09:27 AM
I don't care what you say, I'm not marrying you.

bodybagging
02-08-2008, 03:21 PM
Ken, Funny story related in a bit to your post about Rubies and a blood covered gent.

Last year at TW we were a new Vendor, we also were in the Makeup wars and also did a FX demo , I did a Multisectional Foam appliance on My minion, for one of those events. Later on his Break he and another minion decided to run down to Rubies to pick up a catalog package, Of course they wouldnt give him the time of day, OH hes just a Haunter, well long story short I ended up down there, because yes we do business with RUBIES, In fact the Multisectional Foam appliance that they were so very quick to judge my guy by was THEIR PRODUCT, Once I pointed out that little bit of information , My how they changed their song and dance, next thing you know Each and every Rubies executive was posing with My Minion, and asking for rights to use the FX pics for promotional purposes.

Killer Katie
02-10-2008, 05:32 PM
Playing Devil's Advocate here.... In the world of insurance (the super exciting job that makes me $$$ so i can Hanut...ugh...) when a company doesn't want a buisness, they tend to make the prices so high nobody wants it. Could Transworld be doing something similiar? If they were trying to phase out the haunt industry portion to weed out "undesirables" ,or rather people without huge, deep pockets that just throw out money but lack the excentric nature most real haunters exhibit, wouldn't rules about no costumes and moving it away from the midwest haunt central seem to be a natural step? If that portion flops this year, it would make "smart buisness" to scale back. What do you think?

Jim Warfield
02-10-2008, 07:48 PM
Ever since the 1950's The Creature From The Black Lagoon has been trying to "Scale Back".

JamBam
02-11-2008, 03:46 PM
Hi,

I agree that TW does not understand the market they expanded to accidentally. Yes, the show was originally for wholesale buyers for all those stores. First it was the Red Cross Drug, Walgreens, CVS, Kmart, Target, etc... Then, the haunters started showing up and the market kept growing so that now, even halloween has franchise stores like Halloween Express, etc. and mom and pop stores are a big part of the market. The vendors when I started going about ten years ago, were always looking down their noses at the haunters. And the haunters were many times being the overbearing guest.

Many haunt specific vendors sprang up as a result of the haunted house industry growing. They were put in to the TW show. So, now the haunters had to tread lightly and find them. It is understandable that Rubies and the other big sellers want to concentrate on the big buyers. The materials, catalogs, and show are expensive.

our haunt learned early to be polite, let the vendors know up front we were a haunt, and be considerate when asking for catalogs and info. We have had a pre-TW meeting of those in our gourp attending to let them know how to attend the show. Things like splitting into groups of three, four, or five. Only one catalog per group. And to be very selective in that as well. The first couple of years, I remember hauling home some pretty heavy bags of materials.
Our group last year totalled 18. They would call me to a certain booth when they had found something and we placed orders based on that many times. I had been there a day ahead of them, and usually was planning on the same stuff, but it got them involved and interested. We have used the TW show as a big springboard to get excitement going and ideas as well. Each year, our group has grown and so has our budget that we spent at the show. And we don't expect wholesale prices, but somewhere between wholesale and retail.

TW decided to split the Haunters to a seperate section. Great news. However, along with that came the seperate areas and very little communication to the vendors that were looking for haunters that they would need a booth in each area if they were to see the haunters and the wholesale buyers. This was because the TW people decided to limit the haunters to only the haunt section. There were many vendors that I could not get to that I am sure were very upset by this policy. TW told me that "they knew where and who I needed to see". They also had cops at the entrances to the party and halloween shows to keep the haunters out. TW also has changed management about every other year and sometimes every year. It was suggested to have the whole show open, but give each type of attendee a differant color or shaped badge. Then, teh vendors would know very quickly, who they were talking to or even as they passed the booths.

Rubies and the some of the rest have set up agreements with some of the vendors that do sell to the haunters to sell their wares. Many of therse vendors are only ordering the china containers after the show and many times dropping orders without notice. We experienced that with many of the vendors this year. And none of them notified us, we found out after contacting them to confirm shipping dates. If we hadn't called, we would have been even more upset if had it been any later. It would not have been possible to buy alternate items for our planned rooms.

It IS a convention to do business at. The seminars are almost an after-thought. The big vendors and big wholesale buyers will still find each other. In fact, I know of one halloween store franchise that has it's annual franchisee meeting just prior to the TW show and gets the store owners special vendor access prior to the show to place their orders.

The haunters have gravitated to each other as the wholesalers have. The fact that TW does not dismiss the idea of a midwest "regional" show tells me that they are unsure how this move to Vegas will be. Yes, the buyers will still be there. But, the rest of the crew like ours will now go to Columbus to MWH. It is in fact growing, and the haunt vendors will increase as well. Being in June will actually make it easier to build and maintain the crew's interest in setting up. It will make it harder to get some items if we cut out the TW show as the order process/China/delivery issue will come into play possibly.

At this point, a couple of us will still attend TW, and also Hauntcon.

WE will miss awesome "Vinnie's Beef" for lunch down River Rd though. Now we will find the brewery district instead. DARN!!!

Brett Molitor - JamBam/Huntington Jaycees Haunted Hotel

Nicole
02-11-2008, 04:38 PM
As p.o.'ed as I am, I can understand why they moved the show - and like everything it has to do with $. This is a business and it all has to do with $, no matter how much we all b*tch about it.

What I want to know is - in the press release first announcing the move TW announced that it will have a "presence" back in Chicago in 2009. I am dying to know what that is... because if the show isn't all that it is cracked up to be for the haunted attraction vendors and buyers this year, I think the industry should encourage them somehow make good on that for 2009.

Frighteners Entertainment
02-11-2008, 04:55 PM
If you want a Haunt Show, help support MHC.
This is the show that supports the Haunted Attraction business.
More attendees bring more vendors.
I don't think you'll find more professional and pleasant hosts than Barry, Kathy, Kelly and Neena.
Very wonderful and very accommodating to make it work.
This will be the Haunted Attraction Convention!

If you want novelties and trinkets, then you have transworld.

Killer Katie
02-11-2008, 08:32 PM
I agree, let's pour our energies into making MHC the best haunt oriented event on the planet!

bodybagging
02-12-2008, 03:53 AM
OK looks like Ill have to start promoting MHC, OH WAIT! I Already DO!!!!!!!!!!

Nicole
02-12-2008, 02:30 PM
We've never been (to MHC) but it's something I'm lobbying for boss to do and the rest of our gang to do ( I don't want to be the only one to go!) :) - at this point I'm frustrated about TW moving - with MHC, more of our gang afford to go. Hopefully we'll see you all too at MHC

Tater
02-12-2008, 09:37 PM
I know this theory has prob been thrown out before but....I dont think Transworld is moving to Chicago to spite the haunt industry at all. I think they could be doing it to show the Union that was (maybe) overcharging them that they dont need them. And when the City of Rosemont comes to the logical conclusion that they need Transworld as much as Transworld needs them. Then they will stop nickeling and diming them to death for everything. But I have no insight into the situation but it seems logical to me

Killer Katie
02-12-2008, 09:46 PM
Rob, I was going to say you better step up and start promoting MHC - I'm just glad you came to that conclusion on your own.... LOL *wink

RJ Productions
02-12-2008, 10:11 PM
Everyone seems to forget a very important factor.....SOMEONE has to foot the bill!
It's great to take all your actors to see the cool stuff, get reactions, get them pumped up for the season, but again WHO foots the bill??

The vendors do right now. And the cost is going up. They pay a great deal of money to put their waqres in front of qualified BUYERS. It's simple business 101.

No Buyers...
No sales...
No sales...
No Vendors..
No Vendors..
No show!!!!

Along those lines has been the complaint of haunts bringing 15-20 people, everyone grabs literature and only ONE maybe TWO people are authorized to actually buy. Meanwhile the poor vendor may spend $10 in printing on that ONE haunt.

And I understand the mentality of taking your actors to see "The Show" heck I finally get to do it after attending TW alone for the last 10 years. However I have given my attendees a strict requirement. I get the literature. If you get a piece of literature you'd better be BUYING something!!!

The Buyer vs Attendee(Fan) arguement has been on going. Shows like MC & HC feel the "pain". They focus on the Anttendee and in so doing face the same delima as TW, Vendors not selling anything relative to the amount of people. HC is losing Vendors like rats out of a sinking ship. Someone has to foot the bill so you have to charge the Attendees.

At TW it's the Vendors footing that bill and unless they recoup that investment you will see the day of paying big bucks to attend. Look at IAAPA, you pay HUNDREDS of dollars to attend. No one runs around there in costume visiting!

I'm not condoning or supporting one over the other just stating the facts, SOMEONE has to foot the bill. You either support the vendors, or pay for the priviledge.

Jim Warfield
02-13-2008, 01:07 AM
"Everyone" will never all be on the same "Page" but I have always been so amazed at Transworld when some customer there would begin carping about the prices of the items for sale there!???
Do the simple addition. Floor space+ travel expenses+Motel rooms+additional sales expenses+any hired help needed to man a booth, then add the cost of the materials to actually make the items, add a profit(so they can eat and return next time)...now , how much should that exotic little item sell for?
Sure you might be able to produce it "cheaper", see YOU at Transworld next year in Your booth?
Probably not if the shoes and socks had to come off to do the adding.
Amazing!
In 1963 Chevy only had $298.oo in each full-sized car they sold us for $2,200.oo,
Ford only had $325.oo in each Galaxy. Profit IS a necessity to remain viable and stay in business. Period.
(What do the car makers have in the $30,000.oo car today? $1,000.oo?)

Barry
02-13-2008, 06:11 AM
Shows like MC & HC feel the "pain". They focus on the Anttendee and in so doing face the same delima as TW, Vendors not selling anything relative to the amount of people.

Rich,

I have done many shows as an attendee and as a vendor. I have been in retail for 25+ years. I do not agree with the vendors who want a show to pre-qualify the buyers for me. Put the freakin people in front of me and I will determine how much time I should spend with them or what literature I give them. Any smart business person knows that printing is a cost of doing business and if handing out a few extra catalogs is going to kill you then maybe you are in the wrong business.

It is the show's responsibility to attract as many buyer's as possible. If that means it also attracts non-buyers then so be it.

As for your comment above I would challenge you to talk to any of our vendors about how they feel about our show.

drfrightner
02-13-2008, 06:26 AM
Barry,

The reason we had all the problems a few years ago was because of the haunted house owners bringing like 50 gazillion people, trying to snatch up catelogs, and tie up costume vendors time when they buy nothing. In addition to that just nomal people or just Halloween fans coming to the show and doing the same to people like Rubies and stuff. Well those people are paying tens of thousand, no make that hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce that party, to their 1000 page color catelog to buying all the booth space, flying all of those people there blah, blah, blah.

Additionally the retailers who buy all of that product got upset because here they see all these horror fans showing up who typically was their customer... so Transworld was in a real bind, or should I say between a rock and hard place.

Both buyer and vendor got upset and put pressure on TW.

I tend to agree with the fact that this is an industry, and you can't allow people into the show who should be buying retail, not wholesale. People should be qualified to enter a wholesale show. If this isn't a wholesale show then it doesn't matter. MHC is not a wholesale show, and you offer a lot of seminars for actors to everyone in between. You want everyone and anyone to come and take your classes and I agree.

But with TW its a WHOLESALE show and buyers should be qualified as retail stores... the problem really happened when they really pushed the haunt side of th show. The two shows maybe should have never been grouped together then you don't have this problem.

The results came that Rubies party become nearly impossible to get tickets, when it use to be easy. Everyone started clamping down. And I understand their position.

TW's show is not about volume of people, but qualified people. If you're Hauntcon and you charge an addmission to enter, or if you make the majority of your funds from seminars like MHC, then you want everyone you can find.

TW does not charge people to enter so they're really simply looking for qualified buyers for their vendors...that is their obligation to the vendors paying $1700.00 per booth. That is a lot of money.

Vendors want buyers, period! Actually the vendors really HATE the seminars going one while the show is going on because it takes buyers off the show floor... those vendors want to write orders, they want to talk to buyers with money.

I always said TW should just charge $50.00 to enter the show, and call it a day. Take some of the pressure off the vendors to pay for the show, and put some burdon on the buyers, while at the same time getting rid of the people who want nothing more than to collect catelogs. I think that way you kill two birds with one stone but to date they still haven't charged to get in.

Me personally... I'm not Rubies so I could care less what they do with all of that... it doesn't bother me if they let in anyone or whatever. I'm really only coming from the standpoint of some of the bigger vendors.

As time goes on shows like yours (MHC) will probably grow and grow because you guys are great to the vendors, your booths are cheap, you're in the midwest, and those who may not feel welcome at the bigger shows feel like your doors are wide open. I think shows like MHC and TW are just two totally different shows with two tottally different objectives.

Larry

Grimley
02-13-2008, 07:38 AM
I have to agree with Larry on this point. As buyers nothing chaps my ass more then going to Transworld and having a haunted house bring 18-20 people along for the ride. They are usually easy to spot with the entire group wearing a mass of matching shirts. This is a wholesale venue. While I have met many very cool people in the last couple of years I would rather TW either limit the number of people per group or charge admission. Many of those companies spend $30-$40 per catalog so I can understand the vendors looking down on the many groups of haunters walking by. And it really pisses me off when I can't get a catalog because they are all gone before we get to a booth.

Last year we saw monster tronics at the show and really wanted to look at their props. We stopped by their booth at least 3 times and every time it was full of haunters and we never get in to take a look. You could actually hear them debating on how they could make the same prop on their own. So we never got to place any orders. We have a very limited amount of time to purchase for the entire year and if we can't look at the product the vendor loses out.

MDKing
02-13-2008, 08:01 AM
I've seen some haunts go 10 even 20 deep walking around the show! There was one haunt in particular that must have made up half the guests at the show there were so many of them, all in their haunt attire! LOL
But seriously I'm not a vendor myself but if I were one I think I'd be pretty frustrated with having to deal with so many non-buyers wanting to gawk and grab catalogs. It's just too expensive to not have quality time with real buyers...


Allan

Ken Spriggs
02-13-2008, 11:05 AM
Ummm Larry?
This is a bad thing!
You and I are actually agreeing on something?
Say it ain't so......

Barry
02-13-2008, 11:14 AM
I guess I should have clarified my comments. I was talking about the Haunt Show at Transworld. You will get no disagreement from me when referring to the HCP show as that is a wholesale show. Transworld got themselves into this situation by trying to have two entirely different kinds of shows in one venue.

drfrightner
02-13-2008, 01:52 PM
Actually Barry TW got themselves in this situation one year when they went as far to advertise the show in Fangoria magazine. When they did that they got into all kinds of trouble. People like Morris Costumes saw that and got really upset.

But that wasn't this new regime that was the old Mark and Dennis Passis regime.

Personally I don't care if its the costume side or the party side or the costume side, haunters should not be bringing 40 people, and horror fans have no business coming to the show, its a WHOLESALE, industry show...people are paying big bucks to be there and the last thing they want is to explain how they made something because some guy wants to make it themselves.

Let me tell you a funny story you may or may not know about...

A couple years ago Scarefactory had a spinning tunnel in their booth... they had to turn it off because some guy got stuck under neath it with his camera. That guy wanted to know how it was made and snap photos. He had no plans of buying anything just wanted to know how he could make one himself.

A few years ago I took some water blasters, and I walk around to one and here is two guys with a screwdriver, taking apart the control box, with a camera in their hand... If kicking someone in the head was legal they would have been kicked in the head! LOL

The show is a wholesale show and buyers should be qualified... but when TW tried it, it just got them into all kinds of trouble from everybody. Its a tough issue!

Larry

mindtumor
02-13-2008, 03:07 PM
Someone has to have a lot of nerve to take apart a prop at someone's booth. Good thing you caught them.

drfrightner
02-13-2008, 03:57 PM
Its very sad but very true... TW should ban camera's or create a policy that you can not take photos without permission. That is the rule at IAAPA. These vendors make their living creating this stuff, they put in a lot of passion, hard work, and money then to save someone jump behind it, under it, or whatever just to take photos is outragous!!! But it does happen!

ALL THE TIME!

So for me I think TW should be a show for qualified buyers, because these people make thier livings based on this show, and you dont' want to waste your time talking to people who just want to steal your idea's or whatever.

I will bet you that EVERY vendor can tell you a story of someone who tried to take secret pictures, or tell the vendor how they made one just like cheaper based on their idea, or asking vendors 'where did you buy that part or how did you make this'. LOL

Its really kinda funny but yes there are tons of those people.

Hey I'm all for the do it yourself people... but don't take photos of something just because you plan to copy it!!! C'mon now!

Larry

Skinny Dead Dude
02-13-2008, 05:38 PM
Is the Haunt section still a cash and carry. I've noticed most Haunt vendors have only one price at the show and the same on their site. They sell to anyone. So are they still
consider Wholesalers .

Larry C.
www.abracadaver.com (new site)
abracadaverprops.mac.com (new Email again)

Matt Marich
02-13-2008, 06:11 PM
Amen Larry! I hear that guy is still stuck under the tunnel, David Fachman has been overheard complaining about the smell. We had some guys actually set-up two bat lights and a tripod the first year we showed, thats alot of hutzbah!

Killer Katie
02-13-2008, 06:14 PM
It was a little of an eyeopener to see a vendor's point of view. From that standpoint, there are those haunters who are disrespectful and ridiculous - making the event aggravating for all involved. i can't believe someone would have the balls to take something apart! I know when i went, I only gathered info for my boss that was relevant, and was the only person getting the stuff - so i guess i assumed that others had the same common sense, apparently not. I think an admission fee would solve the issue of bringing large groups, that sounds like smart buisness.

Killer Katie
02-13-2008, 06:17 PM
Could part of the problem be that alot of people don't recognize this as an actual buisness industry? Some people may think that everybody just does this for fun, not for a living. (I don't, but I'm sure there are people like this out there)

drfrightner
02-14-2008, 01:36 AM
Matt,

I know for a FACT that the one year you brought the animated house or whatever, people where talking about how they video taped it and 'would make one better' or 'we can make that' or whatever. You had a lot of people talking about your house you built, a bunch of people video taped it so they could later on build one themselves. SAD but true.

I heard a lot of people talking about your animated house... that was a great job.

I hope people buy one not video tape it then try in vain to make one better... i know they can't do it!!!! But it doesn't stop them from trying.

What can you do???

To me the sadest demonstration of this was when the OTHER magazine had someone write an article and showed people how to make a GHOST RIDE kicker prop out of PVC pipe, chicken wire, and an air cylinder. I thought that was a low blow to an advertisers but what can you do...

Vendors make their living creating these products, we need to support them 110%. We're already down several vendors from years past, lets support the ones we have. Larry

Monster-Tronics
02-14-2008, 05:53 AM
Iíve only been vending at the shows for a couple of years and have a dozen stories so Iím sure all of the vendors that have been around have some great ones to tell. I like the tunnel story that is really funny!

When people do that stuff I kind of laugh because I know what it takes to make the stuff and Iím sure it is easier to copy something then to do all of the R&D etc the first time, but still most of the people will spend 10 times the money in time and shipping costs trying to make a one off copy then if they would just buy one from you in the first place. Iím guessing many fail and waste time and money or like you say make some thing that is inferior to the original.

What really sucks is when other vendors rip you off, that is the real low blow. I had another vendor rip open my stuff after hours to steal my electronics and also see vendors doing ripoff cheaper products of other vendors stuff all of the time. Iíve said this before, if someone makes and sells a cheaper ripoff product and thinks it helps haunters they are very wrong. If you put the guy out of business that is coming up with the original ideas haunts are going to have the same old crap and never get anything new.

Please support the vendors that bring you the new ideas that will make your haunt great!!!

PS Sorry if anyone has been trying to get to my website. It has been down while we move it to a new host and domain name server. Hope to have it up soon, (the website that is)!

Regards,
Jeff Londos
Monster-Tronics
Innovators in Haunt Technologies
www.Monster-Tronics.com

mindtumor
02-14-2008, 07:11 AM
I have never taken pictures at the show to copy any product someone has made. I have only taken them at the show for the memories and novelty of being there. It is pretty sad people would do this to the vendors.

Grimley
02-14-2008, 07:43 AM
We bring a professional photographer with us to the show but only take pictures of items we are BUYING with the owners permission. We only do this because company stock photos usually suck.