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Mr Nightmarez
03-04-2008, 10:37 AM
Sorry if this has been covered. I have been out of pocket for the past several months and just now caught up and jumped on the forums to see that there is now a new Association?

I have never been a fan of IAHA - but I know they were making strides and leaps to make things better... I almost joined back into IAHA in 2007, but never heard the right answers.

Now I see that HHA is up and running? What is the difference, any opinions or reasons for all of this and reasons to join either or BOTH at this point?

Thanks for the input and my lack of keeping up w/ these things!

Jim Warfield
03-04-2008, 10:56 AM
Well they both seem to be "Happy" doing that "HA" thing....?

Nightmaretony
03-04-2008, 11:08 AM
When in doubt, simply check out:

http://charactercounts.org/

Tis still good to ask and learn and join what is most compatible with your ethics and interests. A word of advice, get the FULL story instead of distorted bits and pieces before making decisions and judgement. Good luck!

Mr Nightmarez
03-04-2008, 11:28 AM
Thanks...

I step away for a few months and get so far behind... :)

Researching!

And any more comments and links are very much appreciated!

drfrightner
03-05-2008, 03:36 AM
HHA is dedicated to promoting your business, helping you get over the hump, helping you succeed, getting you things you couldn't get yourself, doing things no one person can do by themselves, this is a group for professional people who want to expand, promote and protect our industry.

There will be a vendor discount program on a level you've never seen, PR that will keep flooding in, and benefits that no unprofessional organization can offer. Its time to work together not against each other, for your own personal gain, or your own popularity.

The time is now...

If you join you'll get an additional 5% of anything you buy from Scarefactory at the show. You will get the industries only professional haunted house magazine, you'll get your haunt listed on the site, you'll be exposed to tons of national media and more.

We're NOT playing around! I'm done with playing around!

Lets get it done!

Larry

drfrightner
03-05-2008, 02:08 PM
Another vendor on board...

POISON HALLOWEEN PROPS will offer a 5% discount year round for members of www.hauntedhouseassociation.org.

www.poisonprops.com

drfrightner
03-06-2008, 03:41 AM
Another vendor has signed on... Scareparts will offer all HHA members 5% discount year around no strings attached.

Now get ready to hear about a Ghost Ride Discount and Unit 70. I'm going to get most vendors on board because I have a plan to make this work for all involved.

When its all said HHA members will have the best discounts, best chance to reach major national media and much more.

Larry

drfrightner
03-06-2008, 09:48 AM
It was just brought to my attention that this statement was made by Leonard Pickel on this website...

The HHA is the brainchild of Larry Kirchner. After being the President of the IAHA, and not being able to get his way as a board member, he resigned abruptly and after taking the IAHA's website URL with him, formed his own "association."

Leonard

ANYWAY... Let me clear things up for you...

When I first became the President of IAHA, Leonard was the VP, and he was the one who QUIT because he couldn't get his way. He quit just before TW . While a board member he had also put the board on notice that IAHA would no longer enjoy free booths, or support from his magazine and tradeshow. He said those things because of what he stated was the former board trying to hurt his business by positioning IAHA to compete with him. That is the thing about IAHA no one really seems to be happy, and it always seems swirled in drama... Anyway

Let me CLEAR UP THE FACTS...

What did Larry Kirchner do while President of IAHA???

1) Raised MORE money for IAHA than they had ever raised in their history!

2) Lauched the industries first ever NATIONAL PR EFFORT, and raised over $16,000 in PRIVATE money to pull it off. The effort gained our industry spots on Good Mourning America, Today SHow, and USA Today.

3) I personally re-created their website with the help of Rogues Hollow.

4) I hosted their website for free.

5) I basically recreated their phone book, got new artwork for it, made it more usefull, blah, blah.

6) Got them free booths two years straight and meeting rooms from TW, something in the past they had paid for.

7) I got them free booths at IAAPA upon their request. Remember IAHA burned that bridge down to the ground after they had tried to get all vendors to move to IAAPA from TW and failed to deliver. They burned a bridge with TW as well as IAAPA... and I helped salvage those relationships.

8) I headed up a total redesign on their logo, made banners for them for tradeshows, etc.

9) I sold ads for their directory, and sponsorships for IAHA to raise money.

10) Hauntworld gave them free space for editorial, and free ads in our magazine as well as links on our websites, and banners. ALL FREE!

11) Gave them professional leadership, which was seriously lacking.

12) Changed EVERYTHING from who headed up their TAP magazine program (Brett) so it would be more professional to what the direction was to be, which was work for a professional industry.

13) Donating stuff for fund raising, and bought ads in from them all to help IAHA.

14) I was a spokeman and tried to get others to join.

After my second term as President I was asked by Dan Faupel to run again as President, but I was worn out... working with some of the people who didn't care about the industry like I did,. I stayed on as a board member, only to see Tim Givinski become President, who from minute one tried everything he could to get rid of me, work against me, and try to hurt my business.

Tim Givinski STOLE my artwork, my haunted house name and posed as The Darkness nationally for two years... after he told me he was sorry, would take everything down, and he told this to both myself and Brainstorm Studios on a three way call. Welll he didn't want to pay Brainstorms fee for new artwork, so I guess he decided he would put my name and my artwork back up on his site even after he had told me and BS that he would remove it and was sorry.

I thought he did what he said he would do and remove my name and artwork from his site... he did then put it all back up and even tried to use it again the following year.

So the following year he's listed as the THIRD BEST HAUNT IN THE NATION according to AOL.com on Ticketweb. There is this ranking and in the third slot it says... The Darkness, Wisconsin. The link goes straight to Tims site... I was like I dont' believe it. As you know AOL listed Darkness, St. Louis not some fraud in Wisconsin.

I called Tim, and he said 'oh there must be a mistunderstanding, I thought you said I could keep using it'. Then after he knows I'm not going for that lie, he says to me that Leonard Pickel told him he could use it, then he changed his story to 'we don't think you own the name The Darkness'. Then his wife jumps on the phone and says if you can prove you own we'll remove it... she tells me to fax over proof but refused to give me their fax number.

I then had no choice but to contact my lawfirm... once my lawfirm got a hold of Tim he relented and admitted that he didn't have the rights to MY ARTWORK and MY HAUNT NAME, and kept trying over and over again to dodge removing it until he could get through the rest of that season. When my lawfirm said last chance otherwise there is no turning back from a full blown suit, he pulled everything off the site.

He cost me thousands of dollars. So he's got this grudge against me...

He goes on this Bloody Mary boat cruise and tells everyone who would listen that I'm trying to DESTROY IAHA from the inside and tries to recruit people to run for the board...if they got enough people to who were on the same team they could get rid of me...which is exactly what he did.

He recruited friends of Tim to run for the board, and instantly started doing things to work against my business... for example one of the first things he does as President is to get IAHA to PAY Rotting Flesh Radio a sponsorship fee to interview board members on his show, and place a banner on his site, and then encourages people to go to RFR to chat with other industry leaders.

Here I am giving all this stuff away free, and I'm a board member, and a member and I'm like huh... I thought people supported IAHA because they believe in the mission not for money. So my first response was okay... pay me then if you don't want my free ads, free banners, and free support. They told me I should keep doing without being paid like RFR. I was like forget that.

In fact... Leonard was the FIRST ONE to tell IAHA he would no longer run ads for them. Leonard told the whole board no more free ads, no free booths at Hauntcon because he felt IAHA worked against its own members, more so meaning himself. I actually agree with Leonard believe it or not.

Once Tim and his friends took over this board, they did everything to work against me from not including Hauntworld as a sponsor of the Frozen Tundra Tour to even trying to make an allience with HauntedHouse.com, all while I was a board member and a suporter.

Then Tim goes and tried to start a sponsorship program, which I explained you can't do that, because you would be competing with your own members for sponsors, but he wanted to partner IAHA with my compeition. I'm like that isn't what an association should do work against members, it should work with all members.

After all people like Ben left the board and Rich and the other Rich they just did whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted however they wanted...


Then they did this census, which they paid fellow board member Randy Young $2,500.00 to create... I was like HUH???? I thought this board was all volunteer, but they still paid him. I did not agree with things like this.


I got TIRED OF THIS and YES quit! Certain people wanted to get rid of me 'Friends of Tim', and this all was inspired by myself going after him because he stole my artwork and haunt name. I tried to GIVE EVERYTHING only to have this guy try and do everything he can to combine IAHA with people he would percieve as my competition.

For the record I feel like an association should NEVER work against its own membership EVER. Associations have functions, and creating ticketing programs which they wanted to create would pit them against their own supporters and members, or a sponsorship program puts them in compeition against their own members for sponsors or helps out your compeition and that is not what an asscciation does in my opinion.

An association should find ways to HELP ALL without putting one haunt no matter how big or small ahead of another. This is NOT how IAHA functions.

So after YEARS of devoting my LIFE to helping these people, I will not ever join that drama again. I stopped and thought about... there is over 2100 members to our haunt directory and IAHA has maybe 60 unique haunt owners. Its not working so just forget it and move on... As it stands let them do their thing, good luck to them, and everyone else or anyone else can do their thing. It doesn't have to be a this vs that...

As I see it its NOT a competition! We're just trying to help EVERYONE!

Here is the bottom line...

I tried to do EVERYTHING I COULD FOR IAHA!!!

I had my own partner telling me I was doing more for IAHA than my own business. And for this we get the same old same old ... which is IAHA is a popularity contest. They're not ready to be for the industry, to be just professional and represent a 500 million dollar industry, atleast not in my opinion.

I started HHA for one reason ONLY... to PROMOTE the haunted house industry. You get a magazine, a buyers guide, a vendor discount program, everyone wins no one loses.

What Leonard said on his website is NOT true... I called him personally and told him the facts, and he listened, but I don't really care if he wants to believe anything I say because at the end of the day I don't really care.

Everyone can think what they want... I stand on my record that I go out of my way to support this industry. If you ever talk to someone who called me up for help I told them whatever I knew.

I run a real business building attractions and run a haunted houses... this website or magazine stuff is support for this industry.

That is my view...

I do encourage you to join the HHA and show support for real attraction owners, operators, and vendors. We need a voice for an industry that supports our business. If you don't believe that is my only intentions don't join.

Period!

Larry

MDKing
03-06-2008, 12:29 PM
I think there is room for both organizations, because there are so many opinions in this industry that everyone couldn't hope to agree on just one. If artwork was stolen that is inexcusable, and using another haunt's name for their benefit undermines they're own success. IAHA has done some good things, it's not all bad and many members are concerned about the well being of our industry's direction. But there has been endless drama spilled out on message boards now for years and leadership comes and goes but the issues apparently do not.

So where do we go from here?


Allan

drfrightner
03-06-2008, 12:35 PM
That is some pretty crooked stuff, stealing people's artwork they paid for is ridiculous and inexcusable.

Allan

Allan,

He didn't just under false pretense obtain my Darkness Artwork, but he posed as the Darkness in his local market and NATIONALLY on the web and on ticketweb.com and was listed on Ticketweb.com as the 3rd best haunted house in the nation by AOL.com.

He is very unethical. He told both myself and Brainstorm on a three way call in 2005 that he would remove and desist using the name The Darkness and my artwork, only to put it back up and start using it again the following year. When I called him to the carpet on it the following year, he said 'there must be a misunderstanding, I thought you said I could use it this year'.

Here is a part of an email TIM SENT ME on October 18th, 2006.

Larry, I told you I would change the icon character and I have. I do not think you own the name the Darkness, but if you do I will gladly change it in the future. However, I will contact my attorney and you and your attorney can deal with him.

So, I am sorry you are pissed and I am sure that not to many customers in MO or in Southern IL are confused about which is which.

I am always available to talk Larry.

Sincerely


Timothy and Ann Marie Gavinski
Owners
Nightmares4U,Inc



Now Allan you tell me how could he say to me that he doesn't think I own the name and this is after an entire YEAR more he tried to use it, and a year after he said he would STOP using it. Call Doug from Brainstorm he was on the three way call when he said he was sorry and would stop using it. But nooooo... he put it back up on his site, posed as me nationally. The other funny thing here is this... his last line states that no one in St. Louis or Southern Il, is confused my Darkness from his.

WHAT... YOU POSED AS THE 3rd BEST HAUNT IN AMERICA rated by AOL.com on Ticketweb.com. You don't call that trying to confuse people????

I should have just outright sued him, but he was trying to convince his haunt was nothing, he was in the middle of no where, he had nothing, blah, blah... now he tells people his haunt is all this and that and a slice of butter.

The IAHA board did NOTHING when this was brought to their attention that their PRESIDENT misled Brainstorm Studios to obtain my artwork, posed as The Darkness nationally, and told me one minute he would stop using my name and remove everything only for him to put it all back up a year later and then to tell me we don't own the name The Darkness.

After my lawfirm got down with him he removed EVERYTHING but NOT until after he already established his haunt as the 3rd best in the nation! He's a loser flat out!

But he's the President of IAHA... so what does that tell you!

Larry

MDKing
03-06-2008, 12:40 PM
That is some pretty crooked stuff, stealing people's artwork they paid for is ridiculous and inexcusable.

Allan

Mr Nightmarez
03-06-2008, 01:30 PM
Larry- Leonard responded!

After receiving an hour long phone call from Mr. Kirchner, I apparently was misguided in my previous post.

The URL in question was brought to the table by Larry when he was president, after being the IAHA website for over a year, the IAHA never owned the URL, and although the IAHA was allowed to use the Larry's URL while he was on the board, it was never owned by the IAHA.

The IAHA tried to buy the URL several times but Larry would not sell. Once the rest of the board decided Larry would not sell, there was a vote to remove him. Larry resigned before he was removed.

Larry says, "The HHA.org web site is a tool for the media. I am trying to promote the industry with national public relations program." The HHA will have no board of directors, no formal structure. Save $10 on a HauntWorld subscription and a buyer's guide by joining the HHA.

graystone
03-06-2008, 02:24 PM
Ladies ladies surly this can be corrected if you just contact them they will make it right. I mean I cant see either one of you getting screwed thats not done in this industry. Lets hope for one or the other ones sake someone can squeeze blood from a turnip.!!!! Lmao and I thought I had problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Who hoooooo got to love it.

bodybagging
03-06-2008, 03:45 PM
And what is the advantage for a vendor to join hha, other than offer 5% discounts to other members? What does a vendor get out of this arrangement, for their membership? For the record this is a serious question, not one of my typical smartbutt replies. Case in Point, why would I pay IAHA however much they ask for a business membership, just to offer 10% discounts to IAHA members, I know the sales speel of IAHA members are encouraged to only purchase from IAHA vendors, but point blank, If I have something that a IAHA member wants they are going to buy it regardless.... Its HUMAN NATURE to get what you want. I just seem to be missing the benefits for Vendors to pay for a membership. Its like giving money to give away more money. someone educate me please.

Tattoo
03-06-2008, 03:56 PM
Larry,

You and I have talked about this, If you choose to delete this that is your choice.

I NEVER! And I will repeat it again, I NEVER kept you from being a sponsor on the Frozen Tundra Tour!

EVERY Sponsor that was involved donated something, you told me that I should basically give you a free spot and I said no.

The point was for the Industry to work together on this tour, wow man, I really thought we were past this BS!

I'll go charge my phone now!


TATTOO
( The same Tattoo that loves this Industry and Holiday, not the BullShit that comes with it!)

bodybagging
03-06-2008, 04:11 PM
Speaking of charging phone, Call me TAT!

drfrightner
03-06-2008, 05:16 PM
Mike,

What are you talking about... I never wanted a FREE sponsorship or anything. You guys NEVER contacted me... you had told me because you thought I wanted to be an exclusive magazine sponsor. When I was helping you from day one get the thing off the ground, you asked me if I would sponsor this and help you promote it. I told you ya, but I would want to be the exclusive magazine sponsor.

Later on after I was never involved with the event, you said after the event you guys didn't contact me because you thought I wanted to be exclusive. I could care less at this point, that is water under the bridge.

Furthermore I posted on these very message boards I would donate DVD's and magazine and no one called me on that either. I was told by someone involved with your production that Tim who was in charge of your sponsorships wouldn't contact me because of our legal issues.

Again at this point I don't care at all... water under the bridge. I'm just happy that we are cool now and I have no beef with you. However when you say you don't like the crap that comes along with the industry, I hope you're refering to people who rip off your work, pose as your haunt nationally, cause you to spend thousands on legal fees to stop them.

Mike if someone did that to you guys, you'd be going CRAZY, you'd go straight to your lawfirm no two ways about it...then it wouldn't be crap to you, it would be serious. It was serious to me, and it should be serious to any haunter.

Either way... I think this whole thread of IAHA vs. HHA is silly...

To me its not a competition, I already know what we're doing, and its not to hurt IAHA or you or anyone else... its to HELP our industry grow with the media.

There is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!

Whatever IAHA does good for them... but your leader is a total flake!

Larry

SomeThingInTheIce
03-06-2008, 06:14 PM
Discounts drive sales, promotion drives sales, a buyer is more likely to place a order with a vendor that is part of something that the buyer belongs too and visa versa, you see this in corporate America all the time. Vendor and owner both working to make the industry stronger thus driving sales. For the vendor this would be what ever product they happen to sell and for the owner tickets. I do not own a haunt but have worked with vendors like Coke, Pepsi, and others. If you talk to these guys they want you to come join them to do this or that and if you want them on board for something they are there because they know in the end it all drives sales.


And what is the advantage for a vendor to join hha, other than offer 5% discounts to other members? What does a vendor get out of this arrangement, for their membership? For the record this is a serious question, not one of my typical smartbutt replies. Case in Point, why would I pay IAHA however much they ask for a business membership, just to offer 10% discounts to IAHA members, I know the sales speel of IAHA members are encouraged to only purchase from IAHA vendors, but point blank, If I have something that a IAHA member wants they are going to buy it regardless.... Its HUMAN NATURE to get what you want. I just seem to be missing the benefits for Vendors to pay for a membership. Its like giving money to give away more money. someone educate me please.

damon carson
03-06-2008, 06:57 PM
Wow Larry I had no Idea you went through all that stuff. I guess everyone has problems. I feel you did the right thing and stuck to your guns. You dont let people run you over or take what your hard work and money paid for. Its just B.S. all the crap people say or do. But you know you have the right attitude not to let it bother you. I really admire you! You are a good person I really believe that! Ive always thought that! And thats why I support your site, your business, your haunts, videos, magazine ect. If anyone is trying to help other haunters it is you for sure! I want to thankyou for all you do for all us haunters!
Damon

SomeThingInTheIce
03-06-2008, 07:39 PM
As for the guy that took larrys art and name, not cool! there is no way you could have believed that this was okay! He// I'll just open a haunt here in Florida and I'll call it... let see Oh I know how about Halloween Horror Nights.... you think Universal will be nice about it like larry and ask me to stop or do you think I would have to remove a boat load of lawyers out of my a$$ (those dollar signs would be coming out with them). I am sure that a lot of small haunts have used names that may have been used by other small haunts over time. I mean there are only so many scary names for a cemetery or house or what ever but dude The Darkness come on, we all know the big name haunts out there, we all know the haunts that are on top year after year, we all want to get there but you don't do it by trying to pass yourself off as them. Can a haunted attraction be the victim of idenitiy theft? Sure looks like it to me. Just my 2 cents, now don't come after me with your chainsaws.lol.

Speculo
03-06-2008, 08:11 PM
Here is my take on this topic, HHA or IAHA


For years I tried to get some of IAHAs critics to join the group. I have supported it since day one, both I and Billy Messina my business partner have been on the board, we have had fundraisers, donated the tradeshow booth etc. We always saw what could be and what should be possible with a group like this.

The day that Larry and Leonard were on the board I said this is what I have been waiting for! Unity! That lasted like 12 seconds.

There are many who never trusted Larry, who thought he was out to sabotage the group. They couldn’t have been more wrong. He really did care! He gave time, money, ideas and put his back into making this work. All that stuff he said was pretty much dead on. Do you remember the website before he reworked it? (of course that website is now gone, but it showed that so much more MUST be done) What about the logo? Can anyone remember the massive safety push…the magazine devoted to safety? Then there is the PR campaign, that was already designed but that he then offered to IAHA, perhaps the greatest thing besides just surviving this long that the association has ever done.

ALSO importantly he offered his database to the group. This is a data base he had been building for YEARS, every video every magazine, every haunt that ever registered on his sites. Repeatedly this was offered to the group, to do a massive outreach mailing, but it was never followed through. Tragic for IAHA!

Why would he work this hard if the plan all along was to hurt IAHA?

The day he finally walked away over disputes about the website, I said to the board that it was a disaster that they had never used the data base that had long been offered. I still cannot see the wisdom in taking a supporter with the assets to move mountains and making them back into your sharpest critic. It kind of blows my mind.

There were many reasons he walked away, frankly Larry runs his own business and I think he found it frustrating to be saddled by the board, and I think they were frustrated by him. Ultimately it came down to trust really, they just didn’t trust him and they never would, and he knew it. I wasn’t on the board during those final weeks but the level of alienation was very clear.

So here we are with the question, IAHA or HHA…..

Well let’s do the easy one first. Love him or not, you know Larry. Join HHA and you will get stuff you totally would have bought anyway, and you help him to speak out for the industry to the media. Even his critics must admit he does a great job with this, always putting a POSITIVE spin, always being the cheerleader, an approach that helps us ALL.

So IAHA… Well my thinking on this group I have supported through thick and thin over long years has changed. First off let me say that I truly believe that most of the folks in this group really want what’s best for the industry. Many of the members of this current board have been the top board members ever, with an unprecedented level of success at organizing, working hard and getting it done; let me single out Dan, Brett and the amazing Jim Smith among those who have been absolute workhorses.

But here is the thing….This group keeps doing strange things. How can anyone who knows this industries history and the way we guard our business secrets produce a CENSUS like the one they did?

This CHAOS program…Well safety training is great! But Certification? Do you think that an organized CERTIFIED program will be waved in the face of inspectors in a moment of panic this next season by a haunter who will do anything to open? You bet! Do you think the inspector might say…HEY let me see that! THESE are some great ideas! Just so you know… the way this is angled there are real chances for codes to get harder for some if this program gets noticed. There IS an argument to be made that maybe codes SHOULD be tougher, but when it becomes clear that IAHA caused that will any of YOU be cheering?

Now this awards thing. In an Association like IAHA we are all equals. Now you have a voting situation that will have IAHA elevate certain members as the best. How will haunters in a market feel when their association makes one of them #1 and puts the other at the bottom? The potential for anger and actual negative results on your business rivals the bloodiest haunt rating systems in the most crowded markets.

Are there other Haunt rating systems out there? All over the place, Larry being the biggest perhaps. But they are all essentially “Movie Critics” individuals who tell it like they see it, love it or hate it. But it’s just not the place of an Association where everyone is an equal, where the common good is the rule in MHO

So where am I going with this?

For years, really since its inception IAHA was always trying to please its critics, trying to do something, ANYTHING to provide a benefit, to justify its very existence. Now you have a group finally capable of doing something, but some of the things they are doing...Yikes!

Let’s make this simple. You know Larry, you know Leonard, but do you KNOW the President of IAHA one year from now? What’s the next direction this organization will go, North South East or West? I don’t know, and aside from a logo and Randy Young this entire association flips every 2 years.

Add to it the fact that it is made up of EVERYONE (Haunt owners, want to be Haunt Owners, Vendors, Actors, Enthusiasts, Home Haunters) creating a schizophrenic “please all” mentality, the fact it has alienated both Larry and Leonard, the biggest media outlets in the industry, and the fact that often the leaders of the group are quite literally “The last one standing in the room” doesn’t do a lot to inspire confidence.

I see a group finally starting to stand on its own two feet after what …maybe 10 years, with the power to get things done at last and wonder WHAT will they do next?. Or what whoever is in charge will say to the media next year.

So to IAHA, HHA to HAUNTWORLD, to HAUNTED ATTRACTION and to any other leaders that should emerge I say…

DO NO HARM!

1) Promote the industry in a positive light! Don’t get too complicated…its simple.. Haunted Houses Rock!

2) Promote Safety EPECIALLY to those on the OUTSIDE of our industry who don’t know any better! And if you have one thing to say? Please use common sense and follow your LOCAL codes!

3) Compete like crazy in your local markets but be NICE! Dirty tricks and evil behavior make us all look bad!

4) Share information with the Haunt community - BUT DON’T FEEL PRESSURED GIVE AWAY THE KITCHEN SINK! Information takes years to learn and lots of mistakes to acquire. Why should you be expected to give away for FREE what you have spent a lifetime learning?

5) Support our Vendors! If they bring a fair priced product to market that you like, BUY IT! And for goodness sake, don’t go out and SELL a knock off! This crushes innovation and rewards imitation.

6) Respect Intellectual property! Don’t rip off other haunters or even the mass media! Once again lets reward innovation and not rip offs.

7) If you are an Association support your members DON’T compete with them!


So this is what I think right now about IAHA, and HHA, in my opinion only,
and with a few general suggestions thrown in so I’m not to be accused of offering no ideas.


But I never really answered the question!

HHA yes - you will get what you paid for. I'm in!

IAHA - Lots of good folks on the board, lots of years of support makes you want to support he group no matter what it does, lots of good ideas, lots of BAD ONES. Will you get what you paid for? Depends what you want I guess. Your Call.

Thanks

Ben Armstrong
NETHERWORLD

MDKing
03-06-2008, 08:39 PM
Thanks Ben, an exellent post I'm sure we all can agree with!

Good job!

Allan

MindWerxKMG
03-06-2008, 10:11 PM
I second that!

drfrightner
03-07-2008, 12:53 AM
Back to the positive...

HHA will eventually become a full fledged association when we've got 500 members strong... the first building block of any association is its members, and the quality of those members. I feel like by this time next year we could have 500 plus members.

Now one of the main benefits will be the VENDOR discount program...

We just added yet another vendor Gore Galore ... will offer 10% discount to all HHA members.

Poison Props offered 5% to all HHA members

Scarefactory offered plus 5% over any discount he already offers.

Scareparts offered 5% on all orders anytime of the year.

More discounts are coming pre-Transworld from Ghost Ride, Distoritions, and Unit 70 and many more.

We're NOT going to do this half ass... we're going to do this right. WE ARE A FREAKIN 500 MILLION DOLLAR industry we deserve an association that helps our industry accomplish things we couldn't have otherwise. We will make this happen together!

My only role is to use my resources to put the membership together, once that happens, we can have a meeting of the minds and go from there. Deal? Lets go!

Sign up today www.hauntedhouseassociation.org

Larry

Barry
03-07-2008, 06:21 AM
Larry,
Just curious as to what changed your mind about vendor discount programs? It wasn't too long ago that you wrote this:


All vendors will give you a discount this time of year, all you have to do is ask.
There is no VENDOR that won't give you some sort of discount when buying in the winter, buying at the show, buying lots of stuff, blah, blah. If you fail to ask you get nothing, it's all part of the negotiations. That is why most of these discount programs don't really float because most vendors will give you 3 or 4 times better deal if you just ask!

Remember when dealing with these people, typically you're dealing with the owner of the company, so its not like walking into Walmart and trying to get something cheaper. You're talking to the owner, just ask!!!

Larry

Personally I am glad to that you now see the benefits of getting vendors involved.

bodybagging
03-07-2008, 06:33 AM
And yet with ALL THAT I still dont see the benefit of a Vendor paying either Organization a Membership fee.
IAHA a proposed 300 members
HHA with most likely less but potential to grow members

Thats not alot of ADDED customers, which leaves very little incentive for me to buy membership for either.
Larry, Barry, your takes on this?

bodybagging
03-07-2008, 06:36 AM
Come on guys, Enlighten me, BUT show me the error of my thinking in terms that a po' lil uneducated prop builder can understand./

Speculo
03-07-2008, 07:02 AM
Most vendors I suspect join these things to gain access to potential clients, networking, access to selective email lists, etc. Also if you like the direction they are going to strenghten the entire industry, you might want to support them.

Basically "whats in it for me" or "whats in it for us"

Both are heavily focused on "whats in it for me" because unfortunately that what most people care about - thus the direct stuff you get, discounts, etc.

More important to me is the "whats in it for us" i.e. What big picture items will they focus on, who are the leaders, how much experience do they have, do they know what needs fixing and what to leave alone, etc.

Basically, freaking politics!

As far as whats in it for vendors I have no idea. Really I am surprised vendors haven't orgainized an association, I suspect its because they are even more competitive than haunted houses!

Thanks!

Ben
NETHERWORLD

Barry
03-07-2008, 09:00 AM
Most vendors I suspect join these things to gain access to potential clients, networking, access to selective email lists, etc. Also if you like the direction they are going to strenghten the entire industry, you might want to support them.

I think Ben hit most of the high points here. I would also add some other benefits:

1. Access to other discounts. Maybe there is a member vendor that offers a discount on supplies or services that you use.

2. Discounts on tradeshow booths. Look for this in the future ;)

3. Advertising and promotion within the organization.

Nightmaretony
03-07-2008, 11:44 AM
As far as whats in it for vendors I have no idea. Really I am surprised vendors haven't orgainized an association, I suspect its because they are even more competitive than haunted houses!

Thanks!

Ben
NETHERWORLD


HVC.

Skinny Dead Dude
03-07-2008, 11:52 AM
So if your a member of both you could get double the discounts plus the show discount!
What a deal!

Larry C.
www.abracadaver.com
abracadaverprops@mac.com

Nightmaretony
03-07-2008, 11:58 AM
Stereo!!!!

RJ Productions
03-07-2008, 01:46 PM
HHA vs. the IAHA, it’s really a shame that we even have the ask such a question.Ben and Larry both covered most of the really important points. (Boy you’re a little busy working on the Haunt Tour for you guys and I miss everything!!!)

I have been an IAHA member since day ONE! I was not at the discussion that formed the idea of an association; I was at the first official meeting. Not owning a Haunt yet (research mission), I was invited to the meeting to hear the spiel. Afterwards they asked me to join..??? I said, “but I don’t OWN a Haunted House.” And I was told it’s OK as long as you are interested, besides you said you probably will anyway! I had a problem right there, I really would have preferred if I was NOT allowed to join! Its very title states it is an association of HANUTED ATTRACTIONS, NOT Haunted Attraction Enthusiasts. I was hoping it was a little more exclusive! To me this has always been the biggest underlying problem… identity!

Over the years, believing what the Association could become, I have fought to rectify that misguidance, to no avail. IAHA has the notion that it needs NUMBERS to be effective. Quantity over quality. If you can’t get enough Haunt Owners, get the actors, get the vendors, get the enthusiasts. That is NOT to say that those people don’t have a function within a association, or that they are unimportant. It’s just that they just that they shouldn’t be the FOCUS of the association. My example had always been… who is a member of the American Dental Association?…dentists or people who are INTERESTED in dentistry?? Every other trade type association has a requirement that you are actually IN the trade. Some have arrangements for Associate Members, which is something WE should have done. Face it, 90 percent of the Haunt Owners were at one time Home Haunters. It is sort of the “minor leagues” of our industry. So Owners understand where Home Haunters come from, but no way can a Home Haunter understand what it takes to be an actual Haunt OWNER.

The IAHA still will not come to grips with this dilemma. It STILL does not have focus. First we focus on communication, but the biggest problem is not LACK of communication. You have a Ghost President who NEVER speaks to the membership, never responds to issues, when we do get something in TAP it’s totally useless! When members such as myself bring up issues to try and address problems and move forward do we communicate? NO! The Association does nothing to respond except maybe “we’re discussing that at the next Board meeting”. Or “we responded to the individual directly”. The point of communication is that PEOPLE want to know. If one person has a question chances are several others do also. People like myself bring these issues up and instead of addressing them, they just label that person a trouble maker! Attitude is bury our heads in the sand and hope the issue just goes away.

The IAHA is working AGAINST its members not FOR their members! As soon as TW announced the move to Vegas, myself and Randy Grigg, both IAHA members, figured it would be up to us to do a Haunt tour. Instead of support, we find out a competing tour is planned lead by our own IAHA President. I inform everyone immediately, not to worry a tour will be run by to IAHA members and we will of course involve the IAHA. We are ignored and plans continue around us. Not knowing ANYTHING about our market they continued with the attitude of ‘we don’t need them we’ll just get another nearby haunt in the area!!! There are NO other haunts available!! So because of this we did not involve the IAHA at all.

Did it hurt us not having the IAHA backing??? Well we have well over 500 people attending the Tour!! That’s 500 attendees that the IAHA will not have access to. Many new west coast attendees that are not members!!! Twice the attendees, twice the exposure that was generated from last year’s tour and the IAHA is no where to be seen. Was it a smart move?

The association decides it “needs” a census. They ask all the WRONG questions. Questions that no owners wants to provide. Major owners complain and explain the situation, offer to help correct it.. Modify the census and it could be useful. Do they change it? NO! Communication? I think not! The association is doing what IT thinks is important, NOT was the owners think is important.

Again, as everyone has stated, there are some people involved who are doing a great job. But what happens is they will keep banging their heads against the wall and eventually they ask “why?” And then you loose another qualified and productive member. Does anyone notice that the strongest advocates are only against the actions of the association NOT an actual association?? Our goal is what the Association’s goal should be… What’s best for the industry? Does anyone notice that the strongest opinions are those of people who have already BEEN Board Members??? We have already “walked a mile in heir shoes”, we’ve already “been there, done that.” One would think you would heed the opinion of such members. Instead they label them troublemakers!

The HHA may be the right answer. Everyone has tried repeatedly to fix the problem. Powers that be want to keep things status quo. The only solution may be to start over and do it right this time. Larry, love him or hate him, you can NEVER doubt his motive…what’s BEST for the industry. I have seen him take a stance that wasn’t good for him personally, but made best sense for the industry. He has not been afraid to change his position if you show him he’s wrong. He was against a Vendor’s program saying people can cut their own deal. In discussions, some of us made the points that while true, an association might be able to pull more weight and get a better deal. There are some people who just aren’t good at negotiation so a program can accomplish it for them. Larry sees the merit and gets behind a program full force!!! Show him he’s wrong he changes. Something the IAHA has yet to realize.

I have been a card carrying IAHA advocate since 1999. I need to focus on my business and what makes sense for the industry that is responsible for my income. Parties, banquets, raffles, and other fluff may be fun, but I need issues resolved. I want an association that REPRESENTS the industry, not compares us to a Tunnel of Love! If the HHA can fill the void so be it. At least Larry understands that if Haunt owners have a problem with something, you look into it. As long as the HHA continues the address problems and represent the industry it will gain support. IF it doesn’t, people like Ben, Rich Hanf and myself will be there to post constructive criticism. As Ben said HHA…yes. If it helps my business it’s a no-brainer.

stafford
03-07-2008, 06:57 PM
I've always been of the mind set, that if you can take one good thing or idea away from anything it's worth it. Be it a magazine, seminar, tradeshow etc. etc. We've all thumbed through pointless magazines, or sat in a "yawner" of a seminar, but sometime you have that moment when you're about half asleep, and the light bulb turns on, and you say "I didn't think of that, that's a great idea"

This being said, just being a part of either association can have benefits to your business, you Join IAHA, you get TAP magazine, access to the email discussion list (ok sometimes that's not a good thing), and discounts with vendors and some tradeshows (IAAPA for example).

With the new HHA, you get (so far) Hauntworld magazine, some vendor discounts, etc. (side note: for $49, most already get the magazine, so why not)

I guess what I'm trying to say, is why not join both. I don't see either organization has gotten to where they are a real force for the industry, so let's see what happens, and if you get that one useful piece of information for your business from either organization along the way, great.

I don't know Larry personally, only from communication on the boards here or via email. I can say I don't always agree with him, but I do respect people who "do" things, instead of sitting back. So if he thinks he can create an association that will benefit the industry, great, give it a chance.

At some point in the future I guess you'll be able to determine where you get more benefit to your business. If eventually one association covers everything for you, make your decision at that point.

I have heard plenty of talk about associations having only professional haunt owners as members, we know that's not the case with IAHA. Larry, maybe I missed it somewhere, but are all the members of HHA so far, professionals, and will it be limited to only professionals?

Chris Stafford
IAHA Member
HHA Member

drfrightner
03-07-2008, 07:50 PM
Chris,

Good points!

I will only tell you this... Greg made a point that I was critical of the IAHA discount program. Actually I wasn't, I had said to Dan many times that he did a lot of great hard work. I think there is a lot of value to it, my real beef with it was they would accept ANY offer, even silly ones like 'if you spend this much we'll give you a discount' or offers like 'for only new clients' or offers that where lower than ones you could already get.

I just think you have to hold yourself, your association, and your goals to a higher standard! If you're going to do a discount program then make it worth the paper its printed on. Same goes for board members... IAHA board c'mon now... over half do not own attraction, or even are suppliers.

Ben makes mention of Randy Young...he neither owns a haunted house, works at a haunted house, or supplies any product or service to our industry, yet that makes him qualified to write a census for a 500 million dollar industry and be paid $2500 to do so.

If you want to be a board member of IAAPA, you have to meet certain qualifications, you must go through a process, fill out paperwork, have references, and more. With IAHA they'll take anyone who says they'll join on... and then not hold those people to their status and make them do something. Most board members DO NOTHING! I know I was there!

The other half of the board members are there for their own popularity, because they want to feel important, and want to help friends, hand out money...YOUR MONEY!

There are some board members who I have a lot of respect for and that starts with Jim Smith, Brett Bertolino, and I will say Dan was one of the CLEAR workhorses.

I second Ben's post ... for every good thing they try to do they do two or three things that make no sense. I know why... they WILL NOT accept REAL leadership, or they would NEVER accept a board that could run this thing for a professional industry. If you went out and got mostly attraction owners they see a bigger picture and know how to get it done, most of the current board members would lose their perceived power. I can't function in a group that does not ONLY WORK FOR THE BENEFIT OF YOUR BUSINESS!

There is NO other reason to have an association... buying you a video, a book bag, dinner, or whatever are things you can do for yourself! They BEG for support, and every time they buy you something it goes to show they can't really do anything that will impact your business.

Its not a shot its a fact!

I hope to find people who will change all of that and make your business GROW...

That is the only goal.

I've always said and will continue to say, buy every magazine, buy every book, go to many seminars, however I wouldn't say join both associations. Because when you do you give your money to those who run the thing, and you essentially give them the right to say they represent your industry.

Do you agree with the way they spend their money to help this industry?

Did they impact your business? Did they help you put more bodies in your door? I think we all know the answers to that... did you agree with them giving a fellow board member $2500 to write a census that you didn't fill out?

YOUR MONEY PAID FOR THAT...YOUR SUPPORT gave them in what they feel is their right to do whatever they want. I'm done with that.

I do think you make good points though... keep an open mind that is the best advice I think for anyone.

Larry

drfrightner
03-07-2008, 07:52 PM
Ghost Ride Production is the latest to join the HHA discount vendor program.

They will offer EXCLUSIVE 10% to all HHA member, with no strings attached.

It was like pulling teeth to get Mike to cough up 10%, but he understands our mission, he knows what we can do, what we will do, and how it will impact his business and this industry.

THIS IS THE ONLY reason he joined our program!

WOW... if you're already a magazine subscriber you can join for $20.00 RIGHT NOW and get THOUSANDS of discounts at Transworld in one week!!!!

Plus you'll get a MAJOR buyers guide mailed to your home this summer!

Larry

Bill Schnell
03-07-2008, 08:19 PM
We joined IAHA 2 years ago, but when the dues were up again, we didn't feel like it was worth anywhere near what it costs. I just don't see a great deal of benefit from IAHA (at least right now). I joined HHA recently. I appreciate the lack of politics and a single mission to help the industry.

drfrightner
03-07-2008, 09:09 PM
More discounts...

I will offer a 5 % discount
Joe Persampiere
HAUNTEDPROPS.COM
Complete line of Animatronics / Electric Props/Haunted House Props/ Halloween Costumes/ Halloween Masks/
Bloody Static Props / Custom Facades
5% show discount to all members
Website: Hauntedprops.com
E Mail: sales@hauntedprops.com (mhtml:{EF635B1C-3C5D-4B64-82DF-B83C7E82CF5F}mid://00000961/!x-usc:mailto:sales@hauntedprops.com)
PH: 631 220 3424


MORE COMING SOON!!!!!!!!!! Let me tell you people as a FACT... you can love me, you can hate me, you can feel indifferent about me... doesn't matter.

WE ARE DOING THIS AND I CAN ASSURE YOU THIS WILL HELP YOUR BUSINESS NO TWO WAYS ABOUT!!!!

This discount vendor program will be THE BEST anyone offers.

Join today...www.hauntedhouseassociation.org

MORE discounts coming soon!

Larry

stafford
03-07-2008, 11:47 PM
Let me explain a bit further. As a haunt owner, you may join several associations or groups that could benefit your business, in addition to IAHA or HHA, you could join IAAPA, TEA, maybe even DAFE. Although you don't necessarily fit exactly into all of these associations, they may have some information that could benefit your business (the one piece possibly I referred to in my last post). If the cost to join these organizations seems reasonable in relation to the information that you are exposed to, maybe it's a good idea for you to join.

Thats how I see the IAHA vs HHA thing, perhaps they will go in different directions. I know nothing of the inner workings of either, but lets just say for arguments sake, that IAHA focuses on all inclusive approach (owners, actors, enthusiasts), and HHA focuses solely on professional attraction owners. As a haunt owner I can gather useful information from both sources, I like to hear what our actors and enthusiasts think, and sometimes if I have a pressing question or concern, I only want to hear what other owners think.

You do bring up some very good points about how money is spent, and what impact it has had on my business. I will admit that I really hadn't thought about it that much, as far as my membership fee, it wasn't much money, so I didn't pay that close of attention. Collectively, the membership dues are a lot of money, and after your questions, I may pay closer attention.

I guess it's just that at this point, my expectations for either association, haven't been very high. This isn't a slam on either, it's just that neither has yet become, as you put it, the association that "represents our industry", and until one does my expectations will remain low. In the mean time, I suggest people take from either association what they want. In the past, I have utilized the IAHA vendor discount program, I even received the discount gracefully from some vendors that I was already doing business with. I also utilized IAHA's relationship with IAAPA to receive discounts on some registrations for their tradeshow. So in my opinion, my IAHA membership has paid for itself, and if I garner any information I think is useful, it's a bonus, why not be a member. I just joined HHA, but I can already see, that by the vendor discounts that have been announced, it's well worth the investment of $49. When you were President of IAHA, I believe you spearheaded the PR campaign, and I will say that it was definitely good for everyones business. You've eluded to it in your posts, but if this new association continues those efforts, it's good for the industry, members or not, I would definitely support the association.

Let me say, I do hope that one or both of the associations, picks up steam, heads in the right direction and is a positive force for our industry.

Also, I did ask the question in my last post, will the HHA membership be comprised only of professional attraction owners? Or is everyone welcome to join? I'm a bit confused by your posts, I couldn't tell if you mean that the entire association should be made up of professional owners, or just the leadership.

Chris

drfrightner
03-08-2008, 12:06 AM
Ed Edmunds
Distortions Unlimited Corp.
152 30th St.
Greeley, CO 80631
970-351-0100
distortionsunltd@aol.com
www.distortionsunlimited.com
Discount Offer: 5% in addition to any general disocunt we're offering (such as a Transworld discount)
Company Info. Animatronics, Props, masks, hands, costumes ... in business 30yrs.


ANOTHER DISCOUNT

drfrightner
03-08-2008, 12:20 AM
Chris,

Here is the ONLY WAY TO VIEW IT...

I'm NOT asking you for ONE PENNY!!! You might say huh, $50.00 isn't one penny. NOPE...not one PENNY!

I'm selling magazine subscriptions for $29.95 and I will be selling the buyers guide, which will be THE BEST buyers guide offered, for $29.95.

That is $60.00. If you own a haunted house you're buying both anyway but for $60.00.

What I'm doing with HHA right now, is collecting all the members for a future, formation for a real association for real professional owners, operators and vendors. You can NOT have an association for 50 or 60 haunt owners like IAHA has...I mean c'mon people. They've been at this for over 10 years now, and they can't manage but a handful of haunt owners as members.

We have SHOWN THE WAY... America Haunts has organized a national public relations campaign two years straight and have given the industry MILLIONS!

We've done more in two years than IAHA has done in 12, or another 12 for that matter. What does that show you? It shows you that if you own an attraction, and you have common goals you can accomplish MAJOR THINGS!!!!

What do you care about the book bags IAHA buys you, or millions of dollars in public relations for the industry, or a group that provides you incredible information?

Here is the REAL bottom line...

Everyone even their IAHA's OWN board members say the whole thing was SET UP WRONG FROM THE START... their bylaws need to be changed, they have talked over and over and over and over again about how to change them to help the association become something more for professional owners.

Here is your chance... we get this thing up to 500 to 1000 owners and next thing you know a REAL association is formed with a full time office staff, just like IAAPA, just like IELA, just like EVERY other professional association.

Correct?

As for who can join... ANYONE, just like IAAPA. However when the boards are formed, this association should follow in the footsteps of IAAPA not IAHA.

You want people you can trust to push your industry forward!

Even those who are just starting out want the same thing, its the only way to do it. Larry

graystone
03-08-2008, 12:16 PM
Larry I made this post this morning and now its gone what kind of discount are you offering off of Hauntworld? Correct me if I am wrong but was my first post deleted? I know when we as haunt owners buy banners ect from you we pay. So I was hoping should I say we were hoping to see what you will be offering? Inquiring minds want to know? Also on a personal note looking foreward to meeting you again at Transworld.

drfrightner
03-08-2008, 01:18 PM
Pale Night Productions

Pale Night Productions is a company that specializes in high quality, low
cost animations and special effects. PNP also does a considerable amount
of custom prop fabrication. With actual degree holding engineers doing
all design and fabrication work, you can be sure that a product from Pale
Night Productions is a product that will last you for many seasons.

Additional 5% off any product prices (including TransWorld prices). Also,
for every $1000 spent with us at TransWorld HHA members will receive a
FREE bottle of our Perma-Blood. That's an additional $40 value on top of
the already great savings!

www.palenightproductions.com (mhtml:{EF635B1C-3C5D-4B64-82DF-B83C7E82CF5F}mid://00000224/!x-usc:http://www.palenightproductions.com/)

kpolley@palenightproductions.com (mhtml:{EF635B1C-3C5D-4B64-82DF-B83C7E82CF5F}mid://00000224/!x-usc:mailto:kpolley@palenightproductions.com)

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--
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Owner / Operator
Pale Night Productions, L.L.C.
(618) 616-2533
www.palenightproductions.com (mhtml:{EF635B1C-3C5D-4B64-82DF-B83C7E82CF5F}mid://00000224/!x-usc:http://www.palenightproductions.com/)

drfrightner
03-08-2008, 01:25 PM
Shane,

LOL...

Boy you're relentless!!! LOL I love you trust me!

Yes I will offer a discount. My problem is right now that I sell everything through my store www.hauntedhousesupplies.com (http://www.hauntedhousesupplies.com). I am rebuilding this site right now with a NEW shopping cart program that will allow me to give discounts, and promotional codes.

I can't say... oh you can have 10% off because my shopping cart program won't do that right now, and I don't actually get your CC info so I can't then turn around and credit it to you.

However my NEW shopping cart program will used for everything from online tickets to my store... this new program is AWESOME!

Just so you believe me here is a screen shot of the new store so you know its in the works.

But when my store goes live Hauntworld.com will indeed by offering discounts, and discounts on banners, advertisement, dvd's, and everything between!

One thing you can bank on... it will be EXCLUSIVE to HHA. LOL

Larry

drfrightner
03-08-2008, 01:28 PM
Whoops...the second image I added was of the new yellow pages, but the first one is an inside page of the new store.

FYI... for those interested check out this shopping cart program. Its worth its weight in gold!!!

http://www.fortune3.com/

Larry

drfrightner
03-08-2008, 01:44 PM
Another discount...

www.Spookywoodsfx.com (http://www.Spookywoodsfx.com)
Will now offer all HHA members 10% discount on all orders year around.

Tony is making awesome zombie suits and mummy suits!

Thanks tony for the support!

Larry

Scareview
03-09-2008, 07:24 AM
Man, all of this is alot of work and too much thought process! I can't even imagine the fun that it must take away from Halloween for all those involved.

Remember twenty or so years ago when there was no organizations, no internet, no trade shows, no magazines or videos? Some of my greatest childhood memories are of the "Old School" haunted attractions with no barbed wire and no closed fences. Everything was "do it yourself" and have one helluva time! I miss those days.

Has anyone marketed an organization for St. Patty's Day yet? Who wants to join?Hell...I'm in!!! haha

drfrightner
03-09-2008, 12:49 PM
Scareview...

Yes you're right 110%...

So how about this and remember I didn't start this thread, although it has produced some great information and debate.

Hauntworld IS NOT a supporter of IAHA, period! This forum will not chat about IAHA, and or discuss them, and they shouldn't post things on this forum about what they're doing. They can stay on their website and vice versa.

We will not mention them, nor will we discuss them as long as they don't make posts to promote what they do...

If we have something positive to announce we will do so without making a comparison, or without mentioning their organization.

Lets consider this topic dead and move on.

I do not support them, so do not want their links and what not here, then there is no reason to discuss them. Let them do what they want, and promote their events on their site. We'll promote HHA things our our sites.

And yes you're right... lets get back to what's important scaring people and making our industry stronger!

Larry

drfrightner
03-09-2008, 01:05 PM
NOTICE: I AM BANNING MYSELF FROM SPEAKING ABOUT IAHA. As they say if you have nothing good to say...

I have NOTHING good to say. I would request that no links are posted to their site, or anyone bait me to discuss them.

They have a website and if you want to read about them go over there.

From today on I'm BANNING MYSELF from speaking about them...LOL

Larry is officially BANNED!

Who will moderate me? LOL

When we have positive things to add about HHA I will post them without mention the other thing. See I did it...

Larry

Scareview
03-09-2008, 06:16 PM
Larry,

AMEN brother!

JamBam
03-11-2008, 10:08 AM
Good discussion, I agree that the association that represents haunt owners needs to be that. The IAHA has struggled in the past and has moved forward as best it can with all the volunteers that have stepped up in the last several years, including Larry.

This is not to bait you Larry, since all know you position on this matter.

The HHA is a start of possibly another organization, but one comment that is in this thread answers a question I have had, which is the present status of HHA. I have joined and also still a member if IAHA. The HHA question that I saw answered was the future. At present, it is pretty much on Larry's control.

Ben's comments are great. Have read many posts with partial info and some misconceptions. One that I know I can confirm is the comment that Randy Young doesn't run a hunted event. The last 2 years, that is true. But a clarification: for 25 years before that he was the chairman of the St Vincent's Scouts Haunted Castle. I know this because the Haunted Castle is 20 miles from our event and it is the biggest event in northeast Indiana by far. I have been involved for the last twenty years with our event. The new chairman of the Haunted Castle has not gotten involved in any regional or national associations.

Larry, I was disappointed in you the month of January as you posted many negative comments and rantings in the IAHA lists until the list was purged. You now are taking a fairly positive spin on things on your own boards.

I know you are wanting to respond, but DON'T. I know you feel you were only being honest, but there is a difference in how people comment on these boards. Wil Shock comes to mind, and the transformation he made in his comments, once he became a vendor and didn't want to alienate customers.

Larry, I do believe that you do have the industry and growth in mind after your own business. You are truly one of the most passionate and outspoken people in this industry.
Continue the movement forward and stay one of my heros!
Just keep in mind that people have many heros. Mine include names like Randy (B & Y), Ben, Leonard, Kelly (C & A), Rich, Brett (the other ones), Larry, and many more!


Brett Molitor
JamBam/Huntington Jaycees Haunted Hotel-13th Floor
www.HauntedHuntington.com
www.MySpace.com/the_haunted_hotel

drfrightner
03-11-2008, 11:43 PM
ANOTHER DISCOUNT ... and YET ANOTHER EXCLUSIVE DISCOUNT.

UNIT 70 will offer HHA members 5% off any purchase year around.

Now that you're looking at all of those awesome pics we just uploaded, you know you want to buy buy buy...

Use your HHA membership to gain a 5% discount on their whole product line.

Join today at www.hauntedhouseassociation.org

YOU MUST SIGN UP BEFORE THE SHOW if you want to pick up your card to show vendors ...

Sign up right now and save THOUSANDS of dollars!!!!!!

Larry

drfrightner
03-12-2008, 04:25 AM
Brett,

Let me clear things up for you...

First and foremost I appreciate your comments. I really do.

I've been getting emails from people saying, 'oh Chad Savage said this or that about you on HAM'. blah blah... I don't care.

Let's make something clear... Chad Savage, or Rotting Flesh Radio, or Leonard or the people who run IAHA, or whomever all have their own plans, to make money mostly,or expose themselves to people, promote their services, or whatever.

Most of the time you have take what most people say with a grain of salt because there is always a motivation to behind most of what everyones does. Eveyone has an agenda, everyone.

Do I bash Chad Savage as he says in his post... NO I DO NOT! I could care less about Chad Savage, his name hardy if ever comes up. I have told people and very few I might ad that I do not like his work. I would never hire him because I don't think what he offers is something I would suggest to anyone.

If someone asks me I will tell them USE ROGUES HOLLOW! In my opinion Rogues Hollow blows Chad Savage out of the water... just look at www.thrillvania.com (http://www.thrillvania.com) and that end that discussion right there.

I would never suggest someone use Chad, not because I think he can be a jerk, but because I don't like his work. Its just my opinion and he might share the same one about me. It's nothing personal I just prefer something different...so if Chad thinks I sit around all day and bad mouth him he's nuts. I have better things to do. He gives himself too much credit I can tell if he really thinks this.

Facts are I have opinions but the same opinion I think about Chads web work I would tell him right to his face... I wouldn't hide it. I'm not two-faced. Will Chad ever say 'oh yeah Larry told me he loves what I do, then bashes me to other people'. NO HE WILL NOT! I'm not two faced. But do I make it a crusade to go around and see to it that every single person knows how I feel about him?

NO... show me one thread where this has ever been brought up by me. NEVER! On the RARE occasion someone might ask me my opinion I give it to them...end of story. Do you think Leonard would ever suggest someone go to Transworld show over his own Hauntcon or read Hauntworld before Haunted Attraction?

So how is this bashing, something that people do everyday in their lives. If you work for ATT and you're in sales, you tell your clients all day long why you're the better choice, and you'll point out the flaws in say Sprint or why you're better.

THAT ISN'T BASHING...

Have I bashed on IAHA, or pointed ou facts? Good question isn't it.

I'm organizing this vendor program for HHA, and in less than 10 days I accomplished what it took the other group over 10 years to do. Is that bashing or pointing out facts?

I tried my very very vey very best to promote IAHA, to help turn it around when its membership dropped below 100 after all the scandels. I rebuilt their website, recreated their logos, called vendors to help rescue the sinking ship, raised money or them, got them FREE booths at IAAPA and TRANSWORLD. Did you know in IAHA's annual budget was something like $8000 a year to buy meeting rooms and booths from TW. I got TW to give that to them for free and saved the group all that money!

I made ads for them, I wrote mounds of information for the group, organized and created a safety program for them, I did all of this basically BY MYSELF! Ben will tell you...

I tried to get these people to see past personal differences, to see the bigger picture that BUYING peoples memberships with book bags, dinner, dvd's, or things of this nature just made people turn their nose up at the group.

I wanted to go bigger, better, farther than anyone had EVER DREAMED.

When half the board wanted to GIVE BOB TURNER $8000.00 of MEMBERS money for a sponsorship to the haunters pavillian I was opposed, so was Brett, so was Ben, and Rich and even when I had Gregg from TW telling them WE DON'T WANT YOUR MONEY they still resisted... it came to a 7-7 vote to give members money for a sponsorship that wouldn't HELP YOUR BUSINESS!

If that money had bee spent on a worthless sponsorship to hang some banners in a room no one cared about, we might never have seen the NATIONAL PUBLICITY program I stated.

I must say though... I was impressed with how the board gave me the money, and trusted me enough to see if I could make this happen. They invested $14,000.00 of the members money into this dream I had.

I had to go out and raise the rest myself, find the right PR firm, organize the plan, and see it through to the end...

I did all of that pretty much all by myself.

Where was Larry's thanks for all that? No one in this industry has ever really walked up to me and said WOW THAT WAS THE SINGLE GREATEST THING the indsutry has ever done working as a group and thanks!

No instead you get really really sad comments from Dan Faupal saying 'yeah sign up for HHA so he can fund another run at getting his face on the front of USA TODAY'.

That was sad Dan... really sad comments!

That article wasn't about me...it was about an entire industry, and I helped tell that story. I can tell you and its really like a made for a movie story... the pr company kept going in other directions, and BEN WILL TELL YOU... Larry would say everytime WHAT ABOUT USA TODAY!!!!

I felt if we could get a story in USA TODAY all the rest would come all by itself...and that happened. Next was Good Mourning America, and Today Show...was Larry on those shows? NO I WAS NOT... but WHO CALLED LARRY to set up those shows...GOOD MOURNING AMERICA CALLED ME DIRECTLY.

We gave them Netherworlds contact info because they had a crew in Atlanta and wanted to do this piece. I did however provide them with the FAMOUS quote on that which was something ike 'The Haunted House industry isn't what you remember, its now a 300 to 500 Million Dollar industry'.

Maybe Dan doesn't appreciate what I did, or what I was trying to do, maybe because he neither owns a haunted house or a supply company and doesn't see the real value I don't know.

Fact is though...I think DAN was one of the ONLY people who EVER did anything!

The board had three MVP's: Jim Smith, Dan and Brett Bertolino, and for the most part NO ONE else did a thing but talk about doing stuff. Deanna did a great job at taking notes but everyone else did basically nothing While I was on that board all the action was done by myself and Brett.

Deanaa kept notes and Jim Smith kept everything organized, Dan worked on anything you asked him to do, and outside of that everyone else could have gone home. Tony was always offering to do web work but the board could never make up its mind about anything.

I don't operate this way... I'm all about doing things right the first time, I'm all about ONLY doing things that benefit the members or the industry, I wasn't about buying members freebies to keep their happieness. I wanted a bigger picture, and if you ask me I will tell you what I think.

I DO NOT LIE, I DO NOT CHEAT, I DO NOT MISLEAD, I DO NOT HOLD BACK...

If I tell you something you can take it to the bank that its the truth, what I really belief, or how I feel. With some of these other guys they're like Eddie Haskel they say one thing to your face and a total other when you leave.

I don't work that way.

EVERYONE WHO SAYS I'm all about myself is full of crap... you don't see pictures of me anywhere, I refuse all interviews, I refuse all seminar requests, I don't call myself 'the godfather' or say others wan to follow in my footsteps.

I'm just ME! Nothing more, nothing less.

I have some assets here some big ones, and other smaller groups have tried to COMBINE everything they have to try and crush me...why. I don't know.

You guys don't know what its like to be me... there are always people out to get you, and as you know I don't lay down for that non-sense. There are people who would love for this message board to crash on its face, for me to stop printing my magazine, or as IAHA tried many many times to buy me out of some of my most valuable media assets. NO WAY JOSE!

I own these things yes, why because I trust myself...sorry

I trust myself to do what I think is right for all, and I will continue to do that.

Others don't like the fact that they as a group can't do 1/10th of the things you d by yourself. I don't do everything by myself, I have a group of friends who help me, advice me, and keep my grounded. Ben Armstrong being the best example of someone who I trust wholeheartly.

I want ALL OF YOUR HAUNT OWNERS AND VENDORS TO REACH YOUR DREAMS... I had a hard hard road myself, and I got lucky, so I want to share.

I've done that and will continue to do that...

Now we're at this crossroads with IAHA vs. HHA... hmmm..

Well I don't see it that way, I never have. I know what I can do, I know what I will do, and if you think that will help you come on board. For 10plus years we've wasted our time counting the days until IAHA would emerge as they voice for this industry, create benefits that we couldn't get without them, and it just never happened... and I can tell you exactly why!

EGOS!

That keeps IAHA going backwards! I don't care what anyone says becuse that is a fact plain and simple.

Bottom line at some point you say... cut your loses and move on.

I know I haven't always been positive, and I have had some negative things to say, and some I regret... but from today on, I could care less about anything but being positive in a new direction for a new day for a new era for a new group.

End of story!

Come along for the ride and see where we end up! Who knows!

Larry