PDA

View Full Version : Chicago 2009 looks solid....



mechanicalape
04-01-2008, 04:32 PM
http://www.hcpshow.com/ and http://hauntshow.com/ have both been updated. Back to Rosemont we go.

Frighteners Entertainment
04-01-2008, 05:13 PM
The only thing not confirmed is the vendor list.

Haunted Illinois
04-01-2008, 05:32 PM
http://www.hcpshow.com/ and http://hauntshow.com/ have both been updated. Back to Rosemont we go.

Unless this is Transworld's version of an April Fools prank. LOL.

Infoamtek
04-01-2008, 05:34 PM
Well, this is one vendor who will not be freezing his butt off in Chicago in January. TW has lost me as a vendor and I encourage other vendors to follow suit. Show TW that unless they treat vendors properly and with some respect, we won't go. I'd rather gamble IN Vegas than WITH Chicago's winter weather. How would you, as a vendor, like to have a booth with nothing in it because the shipping got slowed by snow. Or, vendors show up but no buyers because of a blizzard. The snowfall in February during TW sent a lot of buyers home early two years ago, Remember THAT? Or maybe, getting stuck in O'Hare for several days, waiting for the runways to clear. NO THANKS!!!

Jim Warfield
04-01-2008, 05:50 PM
Transworld is solid! ...as in"Frozen?"
A year ago we had the most warm and pleasant January EVER!
But it was a first and maybe never again?
You do have to play the odds..odds say cold-snow-ice.

SomeThingInTheIce
04-01-2008, 06:27 PM
Thats to bad, it would have been nice in Orlando.

TheNightMare
04-01-2008, 06:41 PM
I'm all for Orlando or Houston, don't think Chicago in Januaru would be worth it. Too F'N cold amongst other things.

graystone
04-01-2008, 06:53 PM
January is not that bad heck what else is there to do in January! I look foreward to the snow and cold and a warm building and being able to hang with friends. I myself dont see it to be that bad of a thing!

Infoamtek
04-01-2008, 08:37 PM
That's because you're NOT a vendor and looking at the possibility of LOSING thousands of dollars because nobody comes to a snowed out show except a bunch of local "haunters" who are not buyers. At least with your problem with Scare Parts YOU have somebody you CAN TRY to get your money back from. Who would the vendors go to for lost money. TransWorld, Chicago, You? Hah!
By TW trying to steal a march on the Houston show, they have once again screwed over the very people who keep them going, the vendors. If you want to go and socialize with other haunters, then go to HauntCon or MHC. Don't ask us, who have to make a living selling our products to retailers and other buyers, to take a big risk because you want to get together with "friends".

Brckee1
04-01-2008, 08:47 PM
I see TW as a business trip. I go there to plan and purchase things for my haunted attraction. I spent 3 days at the show in Vegas and spent most of that time at the show talking to vendors, placing orders and learning from other haunt owners. The seminars I attended were the best I have ever been to.

I suppose if you're just there to see the new animated props and basically see what's new, you can do everything you need to do in one day. I talked to the insurance companies and marketing companies. I spent a lot of time talking to vendors about custom props so my haunt looks different from the competition. I have to change a large percentage of my attraction every year to be competitive in my market. Even though I build everything myself, including animations, I still need to spend a good deal of money to do it. I am careful who I spend with and do a lot of shopping and research at the show. In short, I am there to work.

If you are using TW as just a fun trip or, if your attraction makes a ton of money and you don't need to do anymore tweeking because you have it mostly figured out, then I can see Vegas being so much more attractive. There is definitely way more to do. For me, I am looking at how my attraction can make more money. That's why I go. I didn't do very much anyway aside from work.

I am happy to see the show moved up to January. It gives me more time to plan and purchase and it allows vendors more time to fill orders. Chicago is located closer to many of the bigger companies. While I appreciated the new companies I talked with ,and placed orders with, from the west coast. I really didn't see any that had huge booths or large props. They could easily make the trip to Chicago if they wanted.

If people stay away in protest. I am thinking they are likely not the people placing a lot of orders. Foot traffic may be lower but I doubt it will affect orders taken. Although this brings up another point. Moving TW up to January makes room for other haunt shows to move up their dates and possibly be a bigger player. It might even make room for another new convention.

As for weather, it will be plenty warm and dry enough inside the convention center. It's true there is always a chance of a winter storm causing travel problems.
For me, having to fly across the country was no picnic. Bad weather anywhere will screw you. I spent 20 hours trying to get home to NY because of weather in Texas. I would rather drive the 9 hours to Chicago and be able to bring stuff home if I want.

I am going to try to make it to MHC this year because I have never attended. I have been to Hauntcon twice and had a really good time there. I think the other conventions might be more fun overall, not that I don't have a great time at TW, it's just that it's 90% business for me. TW is not like the other conventions, it is an industry trade show designed for businesses.

graystone
04-01-2008, 09:17 PM
I totally agree Brckee1 . Bottom line is if you want to go and buy you will. Hell if it was in the desert people would say its to hot. Life is made up of all kinds of inconviences rain,sleet.snow drought, gas,war everyhing has its ups and downs. I 100%disagree with you Infoamtec there are many things that could happen between now and then hell even another 9/11 I dont see a little snow and cold being a problem. Now when you look at all the other crap going on in the world. If your a good company and you are honest and up front. Build it trust me they will come. I too do alot of buying but I dont do all my buying at the show I go I look and some orders I place there others I come home and think about and try to find out more on the company. ( I have learned from my ScareParts days) So my opinion is if you stay home then thats you but I dont see everyone boycotting because of the month or the weather. Anything can happen and I mean anything the world may end by then but if it dont and Good Lord Will!! My butt and crew will be there.

hauntedhousenut
04-01-2008, 10:41 PM
Don't let a little snow discourage you!

xxxdirk
04-01-2008, 11:13 PM
Just a few thoughts. As far as weather, The weather is a gamble any time iof the year and no matter where you go. Have it in Orlando in Feb and there might be a hurricane. I have been to Chicago 6-7 times for transworld and NEVER had a problem with the weather til last year.

Lastly, maybe the fact that it sounds like TW is going to be competeing with the Houston show, they will try to out do them, put on abetter show and be more organized. LOL, this is the EARLIEST I can ever recall seeing any anouncements on any of the TW sites. Normally, it seemed Summer was when they got around to posting ANYTHING?

Oh well, no need to complain or plan or think about TW now. Next up on my schedule is HAUNTCON and then the MWHC, and planning for my October.

Jim Warfield
04-01-2008, 11:23 PM
"Everyone talks about the weather..but nobody does anything about it."....King Tut?

Infoamtek
04-01-2008, 11:27 PM
The last show in Chicago, everybody left Saturday before the snow. Sunday, and the rest of the show, the floors were pretty much empty. That is not good for the bottom line. And if vendors don't do well, they don't make product and they don't come back for more shows. As for bringing your crew, Graystone, that's still just ONE buyer, YOU! The rest (and I'm being honest here, not mean) just take up space, catalogs and vendor's time. Vendors invest too much time and money trying to make enough orders and sales at these shows to live on the rest of the year, to take a big gamble on chancy weather. I will probably go to the Houston show instead. Tell you what, Graystone, try keeping your haunt open ALL YEAR, good weather or bad, and pay all your people for every day that it's open. Also, sell your tickets for half price to anyone that asks for the wholesale price. A lot of us small vendors are just hanging on by the skin of our teeth and a bad show can be ruinous. I licensed my line of foam latex prosthetic faces to a company that's making them in China because not enough people bought them at the last Chicago show. EVERYBODY WENT HOME BECAUSE OF THE F*****G SNOW!!! So don't shoot your mouth off about things you know nothing about!

Jim Warfield
04-01-2008, 11:38 PM
I only live 120 miles from the show and I decided not to risk driving there and back, first Transworld I ever missed (before Vegas)
Other years our drive home was risky because of high, gusty winds.
I do keep my haunt open every night but with no employees except for Mr. Tuxedo, Spook house Cat .
Shoveling the backyard to clear the little maze is not worth having a burst blood vessel for me, so it gets streamlined. On the other hand, I get to delve deeper into the haunted history and make it a much more personalized tour experience.
I know so well the hardships of getting here sometimes so I really put a lot into the show to make it worth their efforts.

hauntedhousenut
04-02-2008, 12:25 AM
The last show in Chicago, everybody left Saturday before the snow. Sunday, and the rest of the show, the floors were pretty much empty. That is not good for the bottom line. And if vendors don't do well, they don't make product and they don't come back for more shows. As for bringing your crew, Graystone, that's still just ONE buyer, YOU! The rest (and I'm being honest here, not mean) just take up space, catalogs and vendor's time. Vendors invest too much time and money trying to make enough orders and sales at these shows to live on the rest of the year, to take a big gamble on chancy weather. I will probably go to the Houston show instead. Tell you what, Graystone, try keeping your haunt open ALL YEAR, good weather or bad, and pay all your people for every day that it's open. Also, sell your tickets for half price to anyone that asks for the wholesale price. A lot of us small vendors are just hanging on by the skin of our teeth and a bad show can be ruinous. I licensed my line of foam latex prosthetic faces to a company that's making them in China because not enough people bought them at the last Chicago show. EVERYBODY WENT HOME BECAUSE OF THE F*****G SNOW!!! So don't shoot your mouth off about things you know nothing about!

Why are you so angry?

Haunted Illinois
04-02-2008, 01:26 AM
The last show in Chicago, everybody left Saturday before the snow. Sunday, and the rest of the show, the floors were pretty much empty. That is not good for the bottom line. And if vendors don't do well, they don't make product and they don't come back for more shows. As for bringing your crew, Graystone, that's still just ONE buyer, YOU! The rest (and I'm being honest here, not mean) just take up space, catalogs and vendor's time. Vendors invest too much time and money trying to make enough orders and sales at these shows to live on the rest of the year, to take a big gamble on chancy weather. I will probably go to the Houston show instead. Tell you what, Graystone, try keeping your haunt open ALL YEAR, good weather or bad, and pay all your people for every day that it's open. Also, sell your tickets for half price to anyone that asks for the wholesale price. A lot of us small vendors are just hanging on by the skin of our teeth and a bad show can be ruinous. I licensed my line of foam latex prosthetic faces to a company that's making them in China because not enough people bought them at the last Chicago show. EVERYBODY WENT HOME BECAUSE OF THE F*****G SNOW!!! So don't shoot your mouth off about things you know nothing about!

Despite what you say, I think that Brckee1 made some GREAT points.

- Transworld IS a business trip, so people in need will be there, regardless of when it is and what the weather is like outdoors.

- January is a better time for the convention than March, since it will give Haunt Vendors a few extra months to fill those orders.

- Having Transworld in January will make room for other conventions, not overlapping dates with events like MHC.

- It will be plenty warm and dry enough inside the convention center. Itís always amusing to me to see people bitch and moan about having to deal with a few days of cold weather. Are you all really that thin-skinned? LOL. This is the biggest Halloween Show around and buyers WILL be there, regardless of temperature.

And, like hauntedhousenut implied... Chill out. You don't need to go attacking people on this board just because you're sore that Transworld won't be at your back door, like it was this year.

Boycott if you want, but Iím not sure you are going to have too many followers, especially those vendors on the Midwestern part and/or Eastern half of the United States, which just happens to be where the largest concentration of Haunted Attractions seems to be.

Doesn't it make more sense to have the show closer to most of the potential buyers AND sellers? That's just common sense.

If you boycott the show, you'll probably end up hurting your own business because you'll be missing out on all those orders, but I guess that is your decision.

Again, I see why you are upset, but you don't need to go attacking people on this board, just because they don't agree with your point of view. That's just not right. Chill out!

mindtumor
04-02-2008, 07:36 AM
The last show in Chicago, everybody left Saturday before the snow. Sunday, and the rest of the show, the floors were pretty much empty. That is not good for the bottom line. And if vendors don't do well, they don't make product and they don't come back for more shows. As for bringing your crew, Graystone, that's still just ONE buyer, YOU! The rest (and I'm being honest here, not mean) just take up space, catalogs and vendor's time. Vendors invest too much time and money trying to make enough orders and sales at these shows to live on the rest of the year, to take a big gamble on chancy weather. I will probably go to the Houston show instead. Tell you what, Graystone, try keeping your haunt open ALL YEAR, good weather or bad, and pay all your people for every day that it's open. Also, sell your tickets for half price to anyone that asks for the wholesale price. A lot of us small vendors are just hanging on by the skin of our teeth and a bad show can be ruinous. I licensed my line of foam latex prosthetic faces to a company that's making them in China because not enough people bought them at the last Chicago show. EVERYBODY WENT HOME BECAUSE OF THE F*****G SNOW!!! So don't shoot your mouth off about things you know nothing about!

Wow, that was a little harsh. I don't think he meant any offense I think he was trying to reassure you but whatever. In my opinion though almost all of us haunt owners are going to be at the show no matter where it is, we may get delayed but we will be there. I am sorry to hear your last experience in Rosemont was bad. How do all of the other vendors feel about this move?

Infoamtek
04-02-2008, 07:51 AM
If buyers will come to the show in any weather, then where were they that February? The real facts point out that buyers won't come. January is too chancy to risk the kind of monies spent.

The ONLY reason TransWorld moved the show to Chicago in January is to steal the thunder of the Halloween & Party Expo that had announced a January show in Houston. Not because of haunters. The haunters are just a small part of the show.

I was not attacking anyone, I was pointing out facts about being a vendor using an example. Talk about thin-skinned.

graystone
04-02-2008, 07:54 AM
or does this guy come off as crying because of lack of sales? And as far as my crew taking up space you could not be more WRONG that space helps me decide on what I am going you buy. True I write the check. but its their input that makes that decision for me. So call anyones crew extra space and they will tell you your dead wrong. Also my crew does not let their badges be scaned at booths because all the catalogs come to me and my address already. So we always make sure not to get more catalogs from a vendor because we do know they cost. Lets have it in your city that way when there is a earthquake,fogg,hurricane, or any other weather related event you can scream everyone left because of the f****g earthquake ect . You are really to me anyway coming off as crying because of lack of sales at a show. Do you sell online, at other shows ect? Do you do well on the net and at other shows? If your answer is yes then hell you really dont need TransWorld anyway you already have a solid outlet. If your answer is no then maybe you need to step back and look at your product. Maybe people are not buying because the product you offer is not that hot. Not judging but dont blame the weather, or someones crew or Transworld or any other excuse for poor sales. Your answer just might be YOU. Also we dont give wholesale prices we do retail prices with out patrons so if you dont like to wholesale then just retail. Look not being ugly but just go to Houston and be done with it just because Chicago is not convenient for you dont go but trust me good or bad TransWorld started a trend and people will go and not to be ugly but with your attatude I doubt they or we will miss your booth. Oh yes one other thing I might add and I sure is hell will not miss all the damn Mexicans and illegals putting cards in my face for hiv/std infected anal wart toating whore s for 30 bucks in my face. Give me Chicago and the Crown with good clean friends and fun and a cup of hot chocolate! can I get an Amen!

Gore Galore
04-02-2008, 08:30 AM
sorry John,
It did sound pretty harsh.

But Shane sometimes you certainly lack, shall we say, finesse.
Calling John "This Guy" is pretty rude. This guy is one of the forerunners of this entire market. I have been around for 10 years but John has been around longer. He created some of the first online projects that many people copied and still use today. And that is only the beginning. He is pretty upset the show is in January, and all the vendors are.
Without sales we go out of business and you have no one to do business with.

Transworld is killing our potential to make a living. I don't think many people realize how important Transworld is to some of our businesses.

I can honestly mathmatically determine Gore Galore's entire year by what we do at Transworld. I have been using the same calculation for 10 years and it works every time.

As far as Transworld in January. How is this for Harsh. That is just plain stupid.
They are completely SCREWING the haunt vendors. Did you like our booth this year. Did you like all the NEW product we had and what all the other vendors had. Having the tradeshow in Jan will guarantee we will only have 1/3 of the new product we all brought in 2008.
That is my main issue with it. Then we have the unpredictable weather. We drive in with a 24' box truck so if there is snow or most likely ice on the ground it could get complicated.

Honestly, I wasn't too worried about Vegas. I was pretty sure it would turn out well. I knew we would meet new people, and there were more qualified buyers versus crew. And there were fewer vendors so you had fewer vendors to choose from, so those vendors that were there did well.

So, transworld in January is hurting the buyers and vendors because you as buyers will have much less to choose from, and we as vendors will not do as well because we have less time to build and this leads to less to choose from, ie less sales.

And speaking with the transworld reps is a waste of time. I spent alot of time with our rep to try to organize a transworld meeting place in Vegas for after hours and they only worked on it as long as I was down their throat about it. When I stopped harassing them about it, they stopped doing anything about it.


Honestly, I think all the vendors should get together a petition saying our concerns with this date, and if they don't listen I think it is time to....
You fill in the blank.

MDKing
04-02-2008, 08:35 AM
Dirk, hurricane season in Florida ends in November, so I doubt there'd be any hurricanes in Orlando in mid-winter.....

Allan

Darkangel
04-02-2008, 08:53 AM
With the exception to Shane, it seems like almost everyone who fiercely defends Transworld being in Chicago in January, lives nearby. There are tons of haunts in the midwest, but there are also tons of them on the east coast, and Transworld never been over here. With the east coast you can take trips to many haunts in a shorter period....Have it in Philly. In the mid Atlantic alone there are many great haunts such as

Terror Behind the Walls
Frightland
Fright Factory
Jason's Woods
Field of Screams
Bennett's Curse
Darkwood Manor in VA
Scareworld
Shocktoberfest
Scarebrothers
Bates Motel

I can go to all of these pretty quickly, and many I believe stay up all year long...
It's not always about us the haunters, the vendors need the best possible situation to survive, the industry is too small for them to be risky.

Darkangel

MDKing
04-02-2008, 08:55 AM
Hey Darkangel,

I sent you an email....

Thanks,
Allan

MDKing
04-02-2008, 09:00 AM
So, is it comfirmed that Rubies won't be in Chicago but instead in Houston? Do we know of any other vendors opting for the Houston show instead?

Thanks,
Allan

Grimley
04-02-2008, 09:30 AM
Most people don't seem to understand that us being cold in Chicago is not the issue. The problem lies with getting in and out of Chicago because of the shitty weather. Everybody keeps repeating that bad weather can happen anywhere. Thats true but if you are heading to a city know for blizzards at the worst time of the year then yes there is a problem. If we buyers can not make the trip then the vendors wasted a lot of time and money. Look back at the weather for the past couple of years for the Chicago area in January. Not Good. I think Transworld will loose the edge this year. We will certainly be attending the Texas show. Transworld would be up in the air. Without Rubies and their crew the show will be half the size of what it is now anyway.

Another thing that was nice about the show this year was the lower attendance in Vegas. Everyone says that sales were good this year and that is great considering the lite traffic. It was a relief not having to fight with huge crews of haunters to get a look at the new products. That may be why we purchased more this year than ever before.

P.S. There are no Hurricanes in Orlando in February.

Barry
04-02-2008, 09:33 AM
Honestly, I think all the vendors should get together a petition saying our concerns with this date, and if they don't listen I think it is time to....
You fill in the blank.

I think this is the proverbial "rock and a hard place" Kevin. You summed up how important Transworld is to you as a vendor as it is to many others. Others have written about the benefits of the HCP show when combined with the HauntShow. So I do not know what the "blank" would be. Here are some things to consider:

1. From what I have heard, the new show in Houston does not want haunters.

2. No other show, such as ours, would plan anything that early in the year unless Transworld went away or all of the vendors made the decision to change (and that does not seem likely).

So, I guess we continue with the status quo for now. Transworld will continue to do what is best for their business and their major clients in the HCP show.

graystone
04-02-2008, 09:54 AM
I know I am not on your favorite persons list and you and me both know why. But just as John "This Guy" is so important to you in this industry. So is my crew or anyones crew who has imput on the haunts they work in. (I value my workers imput). John called my crew " people who just take up space" Just like John is important to you. My crew is important to me. Looks like to me you would have all of Oct ( because by then all product should be out) Nov and Dec to get new products out if you so choose. Go to Houston if you like but its no secret they dont want Haunters there and I know I own the largest costume and party shop in Alabama and I get the party/costume side and the haunt side and I am telling you THEY want me because of my stores. They do not want me for the haunt side of it. Maybe this got off subject and maybe I am the worst person here love me or hate me its no biggie. But it is what is. We are not guaranteed tomorrow much less January so why not say well I will do what I can do and hope for the best. I do that everyday I wake up.

mindtumor
04-02-2008, 10:12 AM
I live close to Chicago and have no problem with the show being moved elsewhere, the question is where? Some have suggested Orlando, is that the answer? I don't know I have never been there but others have attended IAAPA so maybe someone who has attended could chime in with some details on that area. Another question is what does everyone want out of the city the show would be moved to? Do you want the best possible show for vendors and buyers? Do you want plenty of entertainment outside of the show?

graystone
04-02-2008, 12:13 PM
1 word on Orlando "Expensive" Now everyone else Were going to TransWorld for business not a Vacation so if its a Vacation you want go to Orlando, Vegas,New York,Hollywood, or any other tourist destination. If your going for business and the show itself then I see it as Chicago. Not that I am opposed to Flat Plains South Dakota or any other place as long as we dont have to deal with tourist and vacationers this is a business trip save the Vacation for the family.

SomeThingInTheIce
04-02-2008, 12:43 PM
Hurricane season ends Nov.1st, it is rare to have a hurricane in Nov. let a lone in Feb. I'm not bust'en on ya xxdrik, just setting things right. You could have rain, in Florida it will rain any time, some times lasting all day and some times its gone in just min.


Just a few thoughts. As far as weather, The weather is a gamble any time iof the year and no matter where you go. Have it in Orlando in Feb and there might be a hurricane. I have been to Chicago 6-7 times for transworld and NEVER had a problem with the weather til last year.

Lastly, maybe the fact that it sounds like TW is going to be competeing with the Houston show, they will try to out do them, put on abetter show and be more organized. LOL, this is the EARLIEST I can ever recall seeing any anouncements on any of the TW sites. Normally, it seemed Summer was when they got around to posting ANYTHING?

Oh well, no need to complain or plan or think about TW now. Next up on my schedule is HAUNTCON and then the MWHC, and planning for my October.

Infoamtek
04-02-2008, 01:07 PM
It's TransWorld that is pissing me off! Buyers may have to pay to get TO the show, but they don't pay anything to get INTO the show. We vendors have to pay for the privilege of showing our products to you. And each year TW seems to treat its smaller vendors (and some of the bigger vendors too) worse and worse. Heck, it's known among the vendors that TW first let haunters in to bring up the attendance numbers so they could justify jacking the prices up on the booths. When the BIG companies complained about all the non-qualified people running around the floor, TW kicked all the haunters out of the HCP show, only letting them go into certain areas. Of course, they didn't do a good job informing vendors and buyers beforehand, which pissed everybody else off. Many of the smaller vendors who had gotten used to also selling to the haunters who were buyers found themselves outside this "zone" and thereby cut off from potential sales. Once again, TransWorld treats the vendors like crap, because they think they're the only game in town. TransWorld rescinded this order and created the haunt show, creating an uneasy truce. Then two years ago, for some reason never properly explained, they move the show up a month, exposing all to Chicago's finest winter weather (ironic phrase). Sales suffer at many companies when buyers stay away in DROVES. Then TW moves the show to Vegas, forcing Midwesterners to do what us West Coasters have been having to do for years. Shipping stuff out by freight and flying in to the show. (An aside to all those who thought Vegas was expensive, if TW ever has another show there, I'll take you around to all the cheaper places off the Strip.) This move exposed the vendors to new buyers and buyers to new vendors. With NO prior notice, TW announces AT THE VEGAS SHOW they are moving the show back to Chicago, IN JANUARY, even though they had a several year contract with the Sands. (We all know the reason why now.) Once again Transworld jacks its vendors around. Let me state for the record NOW! I would willingly go back to Chicago in March! January is just too dicey weatherwise to gamble the kind of money that is needed for a booth at the show. And it is a big gamble with a lot of money involved. If you have that kind of money to piss away, send it to ME. I really could use it.

An aside to Shane: I wasn't trying to pick on you personally. A lot of haunts bring their crews to what is a TRADESHOW, not a convention. To us vendors, this is often a problem. When there is a large group of non-buyers in front of a booth, it blocks buyers from that booth, thereby driving away sales. It would be akin to having a bunch of people waiting for a bus in front of your ticket booth. A couple of them might be interested, but they are blocking the ticket booth from the customers. Can you see that point? I only singled you out because you brought the subject to mind.

SomeThingInTheIce
04-02-2008, 01:12 PM
O town is not "Expensive" Florida is a right to work state. We don't have Unions wanting big money to move something with a fork lift. Theres lots of hotels and their not expensive. Lots of places to eat and a world class convention center. With that said, don't have it in Orlando but having it Chi town in Jan. is insane. I will make a bet with anyone right now that next Christmas on the news we will hear storys about all the people that can not get to were they want to go or get home from were they have been. It happens every year just like you get storys about how much home heating oil is and bla, bla, bla. Chicago should just hang a sign up "ClOSED UNTIL SPRING"lol. (let the beating begin)

MDKing
04-02-2008, 02:06 PM
I agree, I've never found Orlando to be expensive, in fact it's pretty affordable by Vegas standards. It's fun, it's warm, world class attractions and parks, plenty of affordable hotels, etc, etc....

Allan

mindtumor
04-02-2008, 03:05 PM
I could have sworn in 07 when we where in Chicago and Transworld announced 08 would be in Vegas they also said their presence would be back in Chicago for 09. Does anyone else remember this? I agree it should probably be late Feb or March if it is in Chicago. Doesn't Rosemont have conventions all year round?

Brckee1
04-02-2008, 04:15 PM
I know I am stating the obvious but we are all on the same side here. Vendors need haunters, haunters need vendors. I talk to a lot of haunters who think vendors have it made and that is where the money is at. Maybe some vendors think the haunters have it easier and make the money. The truth is that this is a very tough industry to make money in no matter which end you are working in. No one has it easy.

I posted to this thread mainly to make the point that I go to TW to do the business that I have to do if I want to open my attraction. I have to think most other haunters feel the same. Wherever and whenever it is, I'll go. I really think the weather is not as big an issue as it seems. While winter storms happen in January they are more likely in Feb and March. The weather in October may have more impact on sales. If haunters have a bad season, they won't be spending as much.

Kevin, you make a great point. January really cuts down on the time needed to develop and produce a new product line. It's just that from our end, it seems last year many vendors couldn't deliver due to taking on too much work. I was thinking more time to fill orders would help everyone. Maybe it's a bad idea if vendors can't be ready that early.

A show in Houston at the same time is not good. It means both vendors and haunters have to choose one or the other, not both.

So what's the answer that is best for all of this in the industry? Maybe moving MHC to March? A new show in Feb. or March? I guess it's more up to the vendors to organize and decide how to fix this mess. We will show up where ever you decide to go. The worst thing in my opinion would be several shows with a smaller amount of vendors. Like a lot of haunters, I have a day job and family to consider. Taking 3 or 4 trips a year is not an option.

bodybagging
04-03-2008, 03:11 PM
Transworld is SUCH A CLUSTERCLUCK, We nearly didnt vend at TWVEGAS because they couldnt get their shit together, and lo and behold 3 weeks later they still dont have their shit together, as I recieve a email from TWBRASS, Sorry to hear that you did not attend the show...... we hope you will attend TWCHICAGO. WTF?
I really really hope that the PCA show is better organized.....

Gore Galore
04-03-2008, 03:31 PM
Jim,
You are right. More time to produce would help vendors fill orders. That is always a good thing.
It would just cut down on development time. That is really my main beef.

I really didn't think or know I would like Vegas, but I was wrong. We did well and got orders from alot of entertainers out of Vegas that we have never dealt with before.
David Copperfield for one and lots of new haunt owners we had yet to work with from the west coast. Finally got to meet the buyers from Kennywood and Knotts Berry farm.
So, it has hard to know how things will go down regardless of where it happens but the date is still an issue.

Jim Warfield
04-03-2008, 03:37 PM
Obviously secret agent Bodybagging has covered his tracks very well.
Maybe they just need some gooder helperz? Like a haunt needing 20 to run right but doing it with 5. Customers get the short end.
My deceased Father and my wife have derivations of the same name for their first names, my Father had hip replacement surgery which later became cancerous, it got cut out and cured then had a stroke a year later and died.
A few months ago my wife got a notice from the hospital that she should come in to have her replaced hip looked at.
Different genders, different birthdays, different social security numbers, different addresses but as far as the hospital was concerned Jesse and Jessica are the same person, even though most dead people don't usually get many check up reminders in the mail.
"How are you?"
"Still dead."
"Just checking."
"OK."

Matt Marich
04-03-2008, 04:33 PM
I for one would like to offer TW the chance to do the show here in Phoenix sometime in June, July or August. That will seperate the men from the boys. That's why we call this patch of paradise scorched earth, but hell, it will be really inexpensive and you can get luxury suite for $ 49.00!

Infoamtek
04-03-2008, 09:56 PM
Maybe we can get Sherriff Arpaio to supply the lunches. :)

Jim Warfield
04-03-2008, 10:07 PM
..or Judge Roy Beans?

hauntedhousenut
04-03-2008, 10:56 PM
Make sure you invite Gabby Hayes!
http://www.b-westerns.com/pals-gh.htm

Jim Warfield
04-03-2008, 11:07 PM
NO GABY! When I was a kid in the early 1950's every time I was forced to eat a cake with coconut in the frosting I would visualize it as being some of Gaby Hayse's beard!
I did not like coconut at all.
The remnants and creatures possibly found in that beard were nightmarish to consider let alone putting them into your mouth!

RJ Productions
04-04-2008, 03:02 AM
Infomatek... good points!

The problem I have seen here lately is we have people quite new to this forum (and quite possibly new to haunting) that only see things from their own limited point of view. Now don't get me wrong, we all came from such a view point and hopefully as they gain insight and knowledge so will the attitude of their posts change. Did anyone notice how every VENDOR member that posted backed up your point of view???

Too many people forget about or do nothing but complain about the vendors. Vendors PAY for all of us to be able to attend TW or most any trade show for that matter. Granted they need the buyer so it is a kind of synergy. But how many vendors do we loose each year because buyers use them for nothing more than personal "R&D " departments? The haunters go to the show, look at the vendor's props then go home and try and duplicate them!! Or I love the ones who say "WOW that costs too much! I can build it for $100!!" But no one takes into consideration all the OTHER expenses a vendor incurrs, rent, utilities, staff, insurance, R&D costs, transportaion, trade show expenses and list goes on. ALL of those expenses must go into the cost of the product.

Some of us have unique views because we have seen both sides of the fence. I have been a home haunter and a pro haunter so I see BOTH sides. I used to be a vendor in another field and have worked with vendors in this field and I'm a buyer, again I can see BOTH sides.

What always bothers me is people who have NO idea what it takes to run an attraction or develop and construct a new prop are always the first , the loudest, and the longest to complain, yet are the most unqualified to complain in the first place!

I agree that as a trade show goes, the people that NEED to be there will try and get there no matter where the show is. Heck I'm in Vegas but I prefer the show in Chicago, I grew up in the Chicago area, lived 2 miles from the Rosemont location and have family there I get to visit...but January??? Heck we had people this year that had trouble getting to Vegas because of storms in their area. But if the storm is where the show's at???? It's like Haunters working all year and we get a wet October that kill our numbers!!! As a home haunter a wet Halloween made me lose some time and effort, as a pro haunter I lose a year's income!!!

Orlando? I wouldn't mind, Vegas? No vacation for me! Chicago? No problem except the time slot!

Again I'd follow the show no matter where it goes, but since this is a VENDOR show as opossed to a fan convention we really need to focus on the needs of the bill paying Vendor. How willing are Vendors going to be to buy a bunch of booths, develop a new line of props, when something completely out of EVERYONE's control like the weather stops your customers? Can the Vendor get weather insurance fro the show???

Buyers by all means express your opinion, non-haunt owners express your opinion, but when the people that actually KNOW what they're talking about give you some insight...LEARN from it don't argue against it!

It's like to old joke of the Pope preaching against birth control.
A guy yells from the back "Hey Pope, you no play the game, you no make the rules"

It is definately a synergy, no vendors-no buyers, no buyers-no vendors, but as several people have stated that as a business they will go where ever the show goes So it would seem, as they say in Vegas, the hand goes to the Vendors.

Speculo
04-05-2008, 10:29 AM
I agree Rich!

We should do more to support our vendors! Think about it, when you buy something cool, its like having artists and craftsmen working on your haunted house to make it better! They may be in an other state, but it is as if they were working right next to you.

Heres what I think about the knock off issue...

If a vendor is RESELLING something at a HIGH price, they deserve to have you go to the source. Hey if you want to thank them for the idea, buy something from them, but they must expect this.

If a vendor makes something to sell, and it is expensive to the point of being OUT OF LINE with what items like it cost, then they should expect it to be knocked of by haunters.


So basically, I think if you like a cool thing and it is a fair price you should buy it and support the innovation the vendor is bringing to the table.


If a vendor prices an item too high, they should expect it to be knocked off by haunters.

The worst is when VENDORS knock off product. When a haunter knocks off stuff the creating vendor loses ONE sale. When a VENDOR does this, he might actually effect the creating vendor so badly they might not show again.

When we support rip-off vendors who copy product, we are crushing creative innovation from vendors who actully come up with NEW stuff.

As to paying a fee to enter Transworld, why not? If it makes it easier for new creative companies to show that is great! As long as that $50 goes to lowering booth rates I would be cool with that - If it didn't I don't think any of us would want to pay.

Ultimately I think we as haunters should let the vendors and Transworld figure out what they are doing, and then support the decision. All we need to do is jump in a car or hop on a plane and pay for a hotel.....many vendors are paying well over $10000 before the first set of eyes walks by.

Just some thoughts...

Thanks!

Ben
NETHERWORLD

lurker
04-05-2008, 10:55 AM
I agree with Ben. This is really up to the vendors to decide.
I donít buy a lot of product from haunt vendors because we are a low budget haunt, and half the fun for me as an artist is making stuff myself. However we do buy some stuff.
Iíd like to see, in the future, a vendor controlled show. That may be an impossibility due to the separate markets (haunt and Halloween) that a lot of vendors have to sell to in order to make a living, but it would be nice. Transworld is always going to do whatís best for Transworld, because that is the nature of business. I hope haunt vendors will start doing the same as a collective.

hauntedhousenut
04-05-2008, 12:52 PM
I haven't been to IAAPA, but I believe they charge a fee to get in?

GoryCorey
04-07-2008, 03:53 PM
Might as well tell haunt vendors to look for Texas Show follow up now.....

IAAPA -
Costs to display, costs to get in, and you MUST be a member of IAAPA.
I am hoping to attend it this November, just to get the lay of the land.



Jan in Chicago -
PITA, weather, feh, who gives a crud.
It has potential to suck no matter where you go.
BUT
Losing 3 months of development time and prime assembly time - imagine how hard it is to hand fabricate a few thousand webbers and a few hundred cannons (which I did not try to make the loudest, that is a happy accident) each year.
That time gone massively sucks.



Texas Show -
I have a call in NOW, waiting for a return call, to find out how Haunt Show vendor friendly they plan to be, and how they plan to sell the floor.
Will we be in the mix??
Will we be segregated?
Will we be invited to attend at all?
Of course I will ask the important regular vendor questions, costs, attendance estimates (real not the press release pumped up numbers) committed vendor numbers at this point.



Las Vegas in March -
Hell yes expensive.
3x the freight cost.
That many vendors spent 10K before the first pair of eyes came buy, hell, many paid a lot more than that I promise you!

SPRING BREAK AIR FARES????? Kiss my lilly white arse!
Being screwed on the hotel that doesnt exist with a 10 day stay???
Daily rate changes of hotel rates due to spring break???? (refer back to kiss my.....)



TW -
Being dumb as a bag of hammers and lie like a cheap rug... -
Drayage at 2x the cost of the previous shows (TW sets that rate, not Sands)???
Air that did not work 25% of the time???
A show on a floor that bounced more than a trampoline in a condemned facility? Outright lying to us about registered attendance the LV convention bureau had attendance at 4k, not 10k as we were told by TW.

I had newbies and vets alike remark about attendance, all noting it was very thin, to me, I thought Sunday in Vegas looked like the typical Monday in Chicago.

However someone remarked about poor attendance in TWC07, not that I noticed, we spent the entire show slammed, now TWLV08...holy plenty of time for naps, batman.

Being charged MORE for booth space(s) with lower attendance, after being told it would be reduced with the Vegas move (in writing in the announcements to vendors left in our booths in 07 - remember that gang?? ).
Anyone notice we didnt get a pre-registration form for next year...I do not believe Jan in Stephenson is truly set in stone, and TW did have a 2nd year option in Sands for '09. Sorry to add to the rumor mill.



Texas Show Follow up -
I have now spoken to one of the show reps.
"because of the limited size of the convention floor space....It is not planned to have haunt Vendors at the show".
Theoretically I could forgo cannons, and just show webbers, foam products, and LEDs, but this screws out a lot of the Haunt show vendors.
Inquired about having air on the floor to be able to show webbers....unknown at this point.
Pricing is in an email I expect to receive shortly.



Orlando as an option -
Sure, fine just not at spring break time, no need to get screwed on fares and lodging, raised rental car rates, or hailing a taxi that isnt filled with hurl.



Sales -
...fine, if I was in Chicago, I had Chicago numbers and would be satisfied at those expenses, but this was more than 2x the cost
Granted the crew was larger, but that didnt increase my expected cost that much.

What really tied a knot in my nuts.....air being supplied to the Party show floor. That was not ever permitted in Chicago...

That leads to the other point offered earlier, cheap knock off vendors, can use air to sell on the party show floor?
2 booths next year, I will demand air on the Party show floor. Grrrrrrr....

Plus it really bothers me to no end to have no less than a dozen people come to us during the show and tell us our webbers didn't work.
When we asked them "Which model?" and have 'em tell us "it isnt here, but it has a spiderweb on the gun".......
Then have to explain it is NOT ours, it's a infringing knock off and import to boot....
Granted we got orders...but that sort of mistaken identity and crap product can and probably has, cost me a bundle.

I have had home haunters make webbers, have helped out with guidance to M&Ts on how to get an effective webber as a result.
One here and there is goodwill.
When a customer in NB starts making 5k of them in China...'nother story.



Trade shows, Conventions, gatherings, etc, are a biz trip as a vendor.
Whether displaying, marketing, selling or researching.
I believe this is the case for all of us who are manufacturers.
Many of the buyers are in the same position, biz trip, just researching, networking and buying.

callsonmanor
04-14-2008, 02:21 AM
Wow, this discussion got a little heated. I currently am making a living doing work for some of the vendors. I would like to say that it is a concern to the vendors on many levels as mentioned before. Some of you may not be aware of what all is involved to get product to the the show. Filling and shipping orders before October then building prototypes for the show by the end of December is a bit of a challenge for some of the smaller vendors. When your shippment is too big for UPS and too small to fill a 28' trailer (1-2 booths worth) you need to allow two weeks time (from the west coast) for shipping in good weather.

A small vendor can expect to be invested $8,000+ just to be there. For a company that grosses less than $125,000 that is a good chunk of money to lose if your shipment does not make it in time. Not to mention the loss of sales for the year. Many vendors count on this show to make a living. They just want it to be successful.

I am a haunter as well, although we are not a large buyer (we spent less than $10,000 this year at Transworld) that would be money missed if I chose not to go. For some of that is spent on an impulse buy. As buyer I can say I do not HAVE to be there. I CAN do my buying from my office, over the phone or via the internet. As someone who makes part of my living from the vendors, I need to see them succeed.

It would be foolish to think that there would be no loss of attendance due to bad weather. How much of an affect I can not say but it will affect it. For instance, people who are already nervous about flying tend to avoid traveling in bad weather. Us spoiled Californians may choose to stay here in the sunshine. I can't say my haunt had its best attendance on rainy nights either. Keep in mind we are not talking about mildly bad weather here. Chicago can get real nasty in January. If it is at all possible to move it a month or two it would make all the difference in my opinion.

The way I see it the people who would be affected the most from bad weather are the small vendors. They are the ones that have the most at risk. If even a small percentage of the buyers don't come they are less likely to be calling the small guy to see what's new. Lets face it, if the only vendors that showed up were ScareFactory, Distortions, Unit 70, and Oak Island, I would stay home brwse there website and call them from here. It is the addition of the small vendors that make it so much better. I look forward to seeing the "who's new" as well as the "what's new". There are many small vendors that I forget even exist untill I see them at the show again. Do I buy from them...Sure. But, I probably would not have if I did not go to the show and that is why I go. So let's think about what is best for the vendors.

Grimley
04-14-2008, 11:14 PM
The one or two people that are excited about the show moving to Chicago in Jan don't realize that they may be the only ones there. If the buyers are telling the vendors they won't go or risk the trip (Which we are) then the vendors won't attend. It's kinda sad. I do hope the people at Transworld get their act together and change the date or the location. I really do like the show and would hate to see it come to an end.

drfrightner
04-15-2008, 01:50 AM
Let me tell you there is an answer and it's COMING SOON! TRUST ME! It's really interesting to hear all these people freaking out, and or Leonard and clan trying to throw everyone into a frenzy to join is Vendor group, so he can scoop Transworld.

The one thing you HAVE TO REMEMBER... everything everyone says has motivation behind. What is the personal motivation for raising all the red flags...for example Leonard and Hauntcon. Hauntcon is failing bad and I mean bad... he's lost over half of all his vendors, and most of his current vendors are new people who don't know they won't make any serious money. Hauntcon is NOT a buyers show...period!

Hearse rallies, garage sales, grab bag seminars, horror movies, and all that is NOT what people who own business' care about. Yes its fun, and yes it is a great social experience, but someone who is making a living or trying to make a living, or wants to make a living from operating haunted houses want.

I told TW for TWO YEARS NO ONE CARES about that silly haunters pavilion. Let me take that back yes some people cared, but its the same group that loves the social side of the business, and that is the MINORITY group.

The MAJORITY group wants to walk the floor and find NEW products, NEW concepts, and cool stuff to improve their business.

Transworld has ALWAYS been about buyers and sellers coming together, people come with check books! Hauntcon is a social experience, and a hybrid of different people who come. MHC tries to specialize in seminars for actors and stuff like that, and yes there is a place for all of that, and its important, but a buyers seller show is by far the most important need, and everything else is secondary.

Transworld has filled this need for buyers and sellers coming together. However I will say they have NOT done a GREAT job at promoting our vendors to new buyers, new industries, and other buyers, mainly because they are a retail show for the most part. Their focus has always been on the retail aspects of Halloween and haunts kind of came along for the ride. One minute they wanted us gone then the next minute they wanted us to stay... I personally think they want us to stay. The haunted house side of their show is the most exciting element, period!

The haunted house has grown, and maybe we've grown to big or to important to our own industry to play second fiddle to Transworld's retailers anymore. I don't know but I do know something has to happen for the future of this industry. I'm sorry but Leonard or Hauntcon is not the answer... he has tried for what 5 years to get buyers to his show and has failed. How many vendors have walked for lack of sales? I know people hate to hear that this is still a business, but it is...yes its fun but its also a business. People have to pay their bills just like everyone else, companies have to make profits.

It cost a lot of money to go to tradeshows, no matter Hauntcon or Transworld or IAAPA or anything between. So when you invest that kind of time and money, you want a major return on investment. No different than if you make an investment in your haunted house you want a return on your investment. Again yes fun to do but still you have to make a profit.

This is a business first and foremost. Hauntcon is fun, yes I encourage you to go and have a great time...MHC, bring your actors, learn and communicate with others in your field, all great. But when it comes to bringing buyers and sellers together a place where Scarefactory can unload their 5 trucks worth of stuff they are investing 100 plus K they need people who don't care about going to a hearse rally, they need people who write checks.

Its two different types of people, two different breeds, and yes some are one in the same, but most are NOT!

These shows can always survive as a mild buyer seller event, and lean heavy on the social aspects, but a REAL buyers seller show is what Transworld has always been. If and when you are going to replace this you must have something that a Scarefactory or a Unit 70, or a Fright Props, or whomever can rely on for a HUGE chunk of sales.

Its a different kind of show, its a different kind of buyer, its a whole different animal.

Whoooo... now let me say again I do NOT think going to Houston is the answer. At this point I'm not sure Transworld is the answer anymore. That industry (Halloween retail) in my opinion is ruining a good thing over greed... so Transworld show might suffer or worse. Is going to Transworld for half the buyers and half the exhibitors the answer? Is half going to Houston one week and the other half going to Chicago the week before the answer for haunt owners???? NO F*CKING WAY!

I have NO doubts that Transworld is trying to fix this problem, and is trying to get this flopped around, and maybe they pull it off and maybe they don't. We shall see...however I think there are other options that will emerge very soon!

My first goal would be to see if somehow we can help Transworld, that should be the first option.

Larry


Larry

Jim Warfield
04-15-2008, 02:18 AM
Keep rolling that old magic 8-Ball till the right answer comes up.
Weather-wise for Transworld in Chicago I vote for the end of March.
January of 07 was a fluke, maybe the warmest, nicest spring like January ever, it can happen but the odds are not with it.
Does Transworld get the place cheaper in the off-season of January? Is this the whole determining factor? Would this factor out weigh everything else? I doubt it.
Playing the odds it should not be in January because the other odds say attendance by vendors and customers might be real thin.
I was always told the previous Transworlds held in Vegas were very much non-events, so where should the surprise be when once again the place is not filled or as busy as it could be?

With every short-sighted decision that old floor space just gets more and more difficult to sell the next time.

As far as my agenda for saying the things I just did =1) I have lived in Illinois (northern portion) all my life and I know what the weather here is capable of .
2)I don't like seeing people I know and care about subjected to unnecesarry risks and hazards on the road just because someone made a bad decision possibly not familiar with northern Illinois weather.
As far as possible haunter visitors coming or not coming to tour my house during Transworld, that is no big deal one way or the other but if the weather is hideous some will always try to make it here then and this concern outweighs any other feelings I might have .

RJ Productions
04-15-2008, 02:36 AM
It seems the Haunt Vendors are the only ones who don't have an association or show that is vendor based. IAAPA services their vendors and industry at a time and location convenient to both. The costume companies formed the NCA and are moving away from TW to do their own show. The party store owners have their own association are combining, again to service their vendors and buyers.

The Haunt industry remains the “bastard step-child” always stuck attending someone else’s party!

Sure we have Hauntcon…. Or do we? Hauntcon had a great opportunity but fell to the same pressures that have befallen the IAHA, not focusing on its market and trying to be the “end all be all”. So just like the IAHA, Hauntcon has become a fan based gathering not an industry based gathering. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that. Face it, there are more home haunters than pro haunters, so Hauntcon services the people paying their bills, the show goers. Home and pro haunters alike can go to Hauntcon, see haunts, party, go to a masquerade ball, see hearses, what ever. It can be a great time, but you don’t go there to see vendors and make major purchases for your haunt.

The vendors need TW to listen to them. They know the haunt buyers better than anyone and they know what they need to do to stay in business. If January in Chicago does not make sense, then the vendors have to step up to the plate and let TW know what THEY need! It has been stated that the move to January is to benefit the suppliers that are bringing product in from overseas. They need the additional time to get product to the Walmarts and K-Marts so it’s on the shelves in August. How does that affect the Haunt Vendor that is based in the US? They just get done shipping the last of their product in October then have a month maybe two to prototype and create new props for the next show???

In a perfect world vendors would be creating product a year or two in advance. But our business is somewhat more impulsive, or should I say more “currently reactive”. What direction the horror industry takes somewhat dictates the direction the haunt business goes. The Mummy movies come out, Egyptian themed props become prevalent. The vendor that can react quicker may make more sales. Can they accomplish that from October to end of November???

We go to TW because that is where the major Haunt Vendors go. There are party store buyers that buy from the Haunt Vendors, but how many haunt buyers frequent the party vendors?? A VERY small percentage. Haunt buyers don’t need to go where the TW Party Show is, they need to go where the HAUNT SHOW is. I will go where I can see the greatest amount of haunt vendors, I just hope my plane can land once I get there. SO Haunt Vendors need to decide what’s best for them and their buyers and have TW satisfy those needs, or find someone that will.

Monster-Tronics
04-15-2008, 07:02 AM
To be to be honest, I have not been following this thread since when I first looked at it, it was people crying about the weather in Jan. Kevin Alvey and I initiated talks about a vendors group (in my Helmet Cam thread) which had NOTHING to do with Leonard and Hauntcon. I had no idea that Leonard even had HVC (Halloween VC) and don’t think Kevin knew either. Someone posted that it existed and had a yahoo group so we thought it might be a good vehicle to use. With that said, it may not be worth using if it has baggage and is associated with or as a “Leonard’s clan” group. We need to stand alone as a haunt vendors group.

A vendors group is needed not just because of ALL of the TW issues, there are many other reasons too. We need a voice in our own fate! If the vendors let haunt owners decide what show is best for us to show at, we all should be shot. If you pick the hardest place to ship product to and the worst show company to work with, and the most expensive show to have a booth at, just because they have hot chicks in lingerie or want a Chi hot dog…. most of the small haunt vendors will die off because of the cost and problems.

I don’t know how many time I have heard Larry say “TW is a buyers show” yes a wholesale costume buyers show and the Haunt portion is 99% retail. TW does not want retail buyers there nor does the costume show and they have made that very clear.

Using an existing HAUNT show that already has a large following of only haunters and that does not cost vendors a fortune is just common sense. Since MHC is in Ohio and a large number of haunt vendors are in and around Ohio that may make more sense to focus on if the date was better then a moving target like HC. I don’t think haunt buyers have any idea what it is costing them in increased product costs when vendors have to put out a huge amounts of money to do these shows. For me as a small vendor, it is the MOST expensive part of my business therefore shows up as a huge percentage of your cost when you buy my product.

If a haunt show has other things going on for haunters and can help draw more haunters because of it, that can only help the show floor and the vendors the way I see it. If a haunter that is a total hermit wants to come as a buyer only to do business they can, they to not have to participate in anything that is social, they can come for the vendor show floor and do business only.

Haunt buyers don’t understand that this is a small industry and even Scarefactory is not selling a million of one item so we all have to be conservative on how we spend our marketing dollars.

Bottom line is… if vendors get together to help reduce cost of sale, keep each other honest and work closer with show owners it will only help the haunt industry!!!

graystone
04-15-2008, 07:09 AM
Do you know something everyone else dont know? If so spill it man I have caught hell for sticking with TransWorld. Everything you said I totally agree with. Now I want you to fill in the blanks.

Gore Galore
04-15-2008, 07:39 AM
Larry,
Really!
Leonard nor any other convention organizer has anything to do with the Haunt Vendor discussion.
We simply need a vendor association.
After that is somewhat organized we will discuss how to best serve our membership.
Regardless of what that means.

xxxdirk
04-15-2008, 06:46 PM
I am sure there are a few vendors that all they want is to write he orders and then go back to their rooms and count their money. However Haunters want the best of both worlds. We want to order the cool props and be able to party too. If TW will not be willing to provide this, haunters will start looking at a different place to go to. Perhaps we are beginning to see this thought process happening with the haunters. If I have a choice to orderstuff from a "friend" like Kevin or a company that I feel has the same type of product, but makes me or my staff feel like they are only after our $, guess who I am going to order from? A little bit of friendliness goes a long way, especially if the friendliness is backed by great product and great service.

Of couse hauntcon and MWHC are not as big as TW for the sheer number of vendors, but they make up for that with the education, tours and "partying". I am not a vendor, but I would be really interested to know if the amount of percentage of sales compared to the booth fees at HC & MWHC is actually better.

I will take a wait n see attitude and go to the conventions that give me the best chance to see the new stuff as well as the best chance for education and partying. So far it seems TW is only leading in the 1st catagory.

Grimley
04-15-2008, 07:13 PM
I never mentioned switching to Hauntcon or Leonards show. I am interested in the show Rubies is putting together next year in Houston.

Matt Marich
04-15-2008, 08:24 PM
I seriously doubt that Rubie's is going to allow Haunters in Houston, they are trying to narrow down the competition from TW. Again, this show started as a wholesale buying show for retailers to make their selections for the season. Since the decorating of houses was and is a growing area, they let the Haunt Industry in to expand the show. If you were at Vegas, you might have seen the lack of people on the retail side, and most hug the Haunt area to theive ideas from us! By the way, and alot of people don't know this, but the really big guys, Wallymart, Target, Spirit, Party City etc. all have private presentations sperate from the TW show usually months before. Som of the big guys are in China in JANUARY seeing the new product first hand.

drfrightner
04-15-2008, 08:52 PM
Houston is NOT the answer for the haunt industry PERIOD! DO NOT GO! That is my view! Transworld will attempt their show, and these people Houston will attempt their show and the Halloween retail buyers will be sliced in half. That is the 110% FACT OF THE MATTER!

So why would you want to go to Houston to see some Halloween retailers? Why is this industry so FREAKING dependent on EVERYONE ELSE...why are we so damn LAZY???

Do we always rely on others to do what we should do for ourselves? C'mon people! Wake up!

Our so called association is run by enthusiasts, and it totally un-professional club, we have a couple people who rip apart other shows because they want their show to be whatever, we rip on people who organize national public relations, we tear into people who do haunted tours because of bad food and long lines... I mean enough already.

We are an INDUSTRY OF 2,500 haunted house owners and operators, 25 million people bought tickets to haunted houses last year, and last but not least we are without a doubt 400 million plus industry.

WHY ARE WE SO F**KING LAZY, unprofessional and want everything handed to us on a SILVER PLATTER?

If you want something you have to earn it, if you want to succeed you have to try hard, and if you take what you do serious you'll make it happen!

This industry has gotten way to damn easy... these aren't the old days when you made everything yourself. Today you can just head on over and buy videos, books, watch you tube videos or visit others website to pick off idea's, we have more seminars than ever before, magazines, and websites.

Its EASY these days compared to way back when...

Its time to ROLL UP YOUR DAMN SLEEVES and TAKE YOUR INDUSTRY serious, and put your business and your industry first, and all the games, sideshow idiots, and people who claim to be something they're not aside!

Who cares if you like this guy or that guy... screw that, this is your future, your industry, and for once in our damn lives WHO GIVES A SHIT what Houston does, or CHicago does or anyone else... are we all handicapped?

C'MON... let me come over to your house and spoon feed you for god sakes. Who cares what happens to ANY of these shows, we are the haunted house industry, its time we treat ourselves professional, and take ourselves serious and make our own way and stop riding on the backs of others. Its HIGH TIME TO CONTROL OUR OWN DESTINY!

PERIOD!

Larry

shawnc
04-15-2008, 09:00 PM
If you didn't look at it from a social/entertainment aspect (Vegas-gambling) (Orlando-tourist attractions) you could have it almost anywhere and save the vendors a ton of money on show costs. Making the show smaller would open up a lot more venue possibilities than you have right now. Yes, everyone wants things to do while they are at the show. But I hear people saying that they only care about the show and selling or buying things, while in the next sentence complain that they don't like a particular town. If you cut out all of the activities that some of the shows have, you could cut some of the expenses (cost of the convention center, extra rooms for seminars, motel rooms). And you might actually draw more buyers. Many people might be able to go for a day to see all the new products and place orders, but stetching it out and then trying to fill in the time might make many who can't spare the time think they have to be there for the whole thing. Just my two cents.

graystone
04-15-2008, 09:40 PM
Well I guess Larry told yawls ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whoooooo hooooooo Lmao to funny!

drfrightner
04-15-2008, 09:46 PM
Shane,

I just mean everyone needs to stop riding off everyone elses backs and we need to stop crying about what someone else does and just do for ourselves.

Who cares what Houston does WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Larry

Monster-Tronics
04-15-2008, 10:00 PM
Ok Larry, I heard the drum rollÖ. I thought for sure your next post was going to be the answer to all of our problems. Darn... lol

Shawnc, very good point about a show length. Does someone really need 4 or 5, 8 hour show days to decide what they want? The longer the show the more it cost everyone.

Jim Warfield
04-15-2008, 10:17 PM
There just might be different styles of shows that might suit better?
I was told about a hobby show where the first day is only open to the wholesalers, the next day it's open to the enthusiasts to show them the new things and get them all excited to seek out those new items in the stores and buy!
??

shawnc
04-15-2008, 11:55 PM
in the event business. Do not underestimate the cost of all that time and space. Need a little more room for some last-minute vendors? No problem! Need to get in the day before to begin setting up? They will let you. Want a few conference rooms to hold seminars? We can do that, they will tell you. But you will pay for that time and space. Many convention centers can be divided up for a number of smaller events at one time. Some of them might have a corporate breakfast in the morning, a wedding reception in the afternoon, and a banquet that night, all in the same room. In between, they are taking stuff down and setting stuff up. Getting in there a day early to set up booths is something they will gladly allow - and they will charge you for it, just like if you had a full-blown sales day. They rent out those conference rooms to smaller clients for a variety of purposes all day, every day. Don't assume that you have to or need to rent space by the week or even the whole day. What all this means is that by asking the right questions and carefully scheduling an event you might be able to cut the rent, which all vendors share in paying, by half.

bodybagging
04-16-2008, 07:13 AM
Jeff, I understand what you are saying about the 4-5 8 hour days needed for buyers to get around to you, Is it really needed? I dont think a Haunted attraction needs 4- 5 days to decide what they want to buy, But in the case of the retailers, Those guys do, Our Rubies Rep didnt make it over to us until the last day, and then was apologetic for taking so long but made sure to let us know that their were other vendors that she would not be able to see this show. We have a stack of retail store business cards that are doing business with us, but didnt at the show, because they are to busy with the bigger Vendors, They came by weeded their way thru the Haunters and said call me. upon speaking with the retailers, afterwards the general opinion was that they didnt have enough time to wait around for a opening.

I think it is going to suck doing two shows, BUT I think its the right choice for my company.

graystone
04-16-2008, 07:26 AM
TRANSWORLD Love them or Hate them its proven, they are established, they have a long history, they want the Haunt Industry and they are giving the vendors 8 months ( September being last month) to get us buyers our products out. instead of 6 months so maybe 2009 we can get our products on time. They have given advanced notices to the vendors more than ever before so theres no excuse! If you want to put out new products get off this forum and get your ass busy!!!!!! Stay off the internet and get to work!!! Theres the slogan......Buyers 2009 we will get our products on time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Go TransWorld!

Grimley
04-16-2008, 10:44 AM
For us the Transworld show is OUT period. We can't risk going. Granted we only spend $80-$100 thousand a year so we won't be missed but we can't make plans that are that risky. Houston has a better shot at bringing the vendors who are also not willing to risk the cold. If it spells the end of Transworld in light of a new show then so be it. We can't afford to just not go because the people at Transworld can't get their act together. We will be supporting the new Houston show unless something drastic happens.

drfrightner
04-16-2008, 12:32 PM
Grimley,

Here are the facts ... you can support Houston all you want but...

Are you a haunt owner or a retailer? If you own a haunted house, or if you're in the haunt industry, you really don't have a choice in the matter. All haunt buyers will go where ever the venors go, unless you're a retailer as I stated.

What are you going down there to do, buy party balloons? Becauase that is who owns that show it was started by the party people, and now a handful of Halloween retailers like Rubies will be stepping in. So are you telling me you just blindly support something that you have NO clue will be exhibiting?

If all the haunt vendors go back to Transworld you will be going to Transworld no matter if you like them or not...again IF YOU are in the haunt business.

We all need to NOT jump the gun here because NO ONE haunt vendor has stepped up and made a committment either way!

There is stuff brewing, big stuff!

Maybe Transworld is the home for haunters, but I wonder if that is possible, we'll have to wait and see what happens there.

I would give all of this another 2 or 3 weeks before jumping the gun!

Larry

graystone
04-16-2008, 04:18 PM
They wont listen!!!!! I have a couple of Costume and Party shops one is the largest in Alabama. I dont go to TransWorld really that much for the costume and party end of it. Why you might ask? Hell they have sales reps who visits my shops so there is really no need to go for that when they come to me. So what Rubies wont be there they will stop by my stores later. I go for the Haunt end of it the companies in the Haunt industry dont visit me so I need to go there to keep up with the new items and trends. Now again if these people are trying to get their products in stores and in the line of a retail markets go to Houston. If its the Haunt Industry you are catering too you better have your butt in Chicago or its gonna be a baddddddddd year unless you plan on packing your stuff and going from haunt to haunt to show case it!!!! Can I get an Amen? Thats just how it is so instead of bitch just bite your toung and deal with it or loose alot of money come 2009! I dont see anything else you can do. Now dont everyone cry and bitch at me because this is my opinion! Larry do you see where I am coming from or anyone else?

Grimley
04-16-2008, 05:34 PM
We are more on the retail end but do buy from the haunt side too. Hopefully they change the dates as we won't commit $3,000-$4,000 to go to a frozen Chicago. The only issue I have with the show is the dates and thats all. If Rubies doesn't go I will see the rep anyway. The only problems are the date and weather issues.

Ken Spriggs
04-16-2008, 06:45 PM
You know what?
For 39 years I have been in Chicago during January.
Sure it's cold, it might snow.......so what?

You get off the plane or out of your car and use the habitrails to get around the hotels and convention center.

Yes I will hear an earful but I promise to turn the heat up at Dream Reapers if we are open.....ok? Maybe if we pay a little extra they will heat the buses!!!

toothtwister
04-16-2008, 07:23 PM
There is more than one issue regarding the TW show being in Chicago next year.

Yes the weather in Jan. is one of them, but that's just the 'tip of the iceberg'. {bad pun}

Many in the Halloween, Costume and Party end of the industry (and some haunters) have perceived TW's actions of setting the show date in January (moving the date up to be more accurate) as to discourage vendors in particular (and buyers in general) from participating in the Houston show.

It seems that this has had the opposite effect that TW wanted. Nobody, after all, wants to be told what show to go to.

I have only been vending at the TW show for the last 4 years and so I don't know all the history. However, I do know that many vendors and buyers are not happy with how TW is running their show.

It seems that many (if not most) of the Halloween, Costume and Party people are done with TW for the time being. Next year, they will be vending at this new Houston show while the Haunters will be at the TW show in Chicago.

Keep in mind that this is 1 year way and a lot can change in 1 year.

Perhaps this will be a good wake-up call for Transworld so that they can organize a show properly suited for everyone- Halloween, Costume, Party and Haunt.

Thad
Dental Distortions

Neena
04-16-2008, 07:29 PM
Hi Everyone,

Kelly Collins and I have been attending Transworld for several years; and always have a great time! We have had a modest budget at our haunt: Terror Park at Cooper Stadium in Columbus, Ohio. Next year we are moving into a brand new facility in a great new location in beautiful downtown and we expect record crowds to attend; providing us with increasing purchasing power in the future. We are Consultants: Designers, Constructors, Operators and Makeup Artists.

The following is a shameless plug for the MHC. Either donít read the following or forgive me for being brazen. Thank you. You can contact me at anytime offline at Neena@MidwestFantasyShow.com or Barry at Barry@MidwestHaunters.com.

We make most of our haunt purchases now at the MHC (Midwest Haunters Convention). A great part of our teamís conspiracy (me, Kelly, Barry and Kathy) has been to bring a fantastic show to us (for selfish reasons) ~ that is complete with wonderful vendors, great education and exciting (kick ass) social events. We started it primarily because we wanted to serve an audience of ALL Haunters; which Transworld didnít want at its primarily wholesale show.

The MHC is the best alternative tradeshow in the country which features a 25,000 square foot trade show and over a 100 vendor booths, and most of our vendors feature cash and carry. Columbus, Ohio, is located within 500 miles of 80% of the US population and 50% of Canada. Itís also the home for Scarefactory - and in breaking news - they will be one of our featured destinations on our Friday night Midsummer Nightís Scream Bus Tour, along with the House of Nightmares and Outland. This event is truly shaping up to be outrageous along with our incredible showcase events on Saturday night and is not to be missed.

We hope to see you in June!

Neena

mindtumor
04-16-2008, 08:47 PM
You know what?
For 39 years I have been in Chicago during January.
Sure it's cold, it might snow.......so what?

You get off the plane or out of your car and use the habitrails to get around the hotels and convention center.

Yes I will hear an earful but I promise to turn the heat up at Dream Reapers if we are open.....ok? Maybe if we pay a little extra they will heat the buses!!!

Not to get off topic but I actually love Chicago, I have wanted to move there for a number of years. I live in Michigan so the weather doesn't bother me. You are lucky to have lived around there for so long!

drfrightner
04-17-2008, 02:17 AM
Let me address everything I've read here...

1) Weather in Chicago SUCKS period, be it January or March or whenever. Chicago is located on the Great Lake and just like Buffalo the winds blow off that water and cause a lot of snow and a lot of bad weather. I do NOT want to go to Chicago PERIOD in January!

Do I like Chicago as a City...yes its a super cool city, however I'm not a Rosemont fan because there isn't anywhere to eat, the hotels RAPE YOU, and overall there just isn't much to do in Chicago during the winter. So overall I love Chicago just not in January.

2) MHC, I think Neena yourself and Kelly are very very awesome people! I think you are both doing a great job, and its a pretty much thankless job so good for you guys. However I do not think having ten million regional shows as the way to go for our industry. This industry needs ONE MAJOR buyers seller show.

I don't think hardly anyone understands just how much time and money it takes to exhibit at all these shows. If vendors are flying all over the country to go to tradeshows they're never building anything, hence we have all that rants about 'I DIDN'T GET MY STUFF' for weeks on end...no make that months on end. LOL

MHC is GREAT for exactly what it is trying to accomplish, and there is a great many people who love these shows, or more specifically the MHC. Vendors who exhibit make money and you guys keep the costs LOW, which is unreal!!! Good for you guys!

But at the end of the day THIS INDUSTRY MUST HAVE A REAL BUYER SELLER ONLY SHOW... no frills, no hearse rallies, no make up wars, no t-shirt contests, none of that stuff, just bring your check book and vendor bring the new stuff. I told TW for years to STOP doing all the make up wars stuff, all the home haunter stuff. I told them let MHC do that stuff, they are good at it...TW is or was or still is a BUYERS SELLER SHOW, and that is the ONLY thing they should focus on. PERIOD!

All of these regional shows should focus on the social stuff, training actors, haunt tours, and all that stuff. There is a desire for those things, and people attend them, but for those who just want to buy and sell, keep all the other stuff OUT OF THE SHOW!!!

3) Transworld Future: There is NO DOUBT at this point all of the party exhibitors are gone from Transworld 2009. There is NO DOUBT that Rubies is GONE, along with the couple other companies they own...GONE! Right now they've lost about ummmm... 30% of all the booths I'd say. Now will Rubies take anyone else away I dont' know, that is something Transworld is working on RIGHT NOW.

Personally, I feel as a haunt buyer or vendor, who cares if they ONLY lose the balloon people or Rubies, those are NOT your buyer anyway.

So Transworld won't really be effected from a haunt buyer seller aspect atleast not in 2009, but only if they can keep the rest of their show intact.

These are FACTS...

So IF the haunt vendor decides to return to TW in '09 you really won't see any drop off in sales or buyers atleast not in 2009.

So as it stands it really doesn't matter what Houston does, as long as TW can keep the rest of those vendors going to Chicago. That is in fact the BIG IF...

If TW loses the 2, 3, 4 whatever vendors, their show is done, over, finished.

Why? Because the're playing chicken with Rubies... if they wouldn't had moved their dates one week prior to Houston, and kept the show in March, Rubies would have exhibited again, and the problem wouldn't be as big as it is now.

But I understand TW had to take a stand against the big bad bully... they have to protect their show from someone trying to water it down slowly year after year.

So here you are...

Seriously, you'll have to wait another 2 or 3 weeks and find out what TW can report, or find out what the other retail vendors decide...go with Rubies and Houston or stay with TW.

It will be interesting for sure...

NO MATTER WHAT... we wouldn't even be talking about this if our industry didn't piggy back on another show. The haunt industry needs their OWN SHOW...be it Transworld manages or another group.

I think this will probably happen either in 2009 or 10.

But at this point it will probably happen!

Larry

mindtumor
04-17-2008, 07:17 AM
What I was saying about the city has nothing to do with the show being there. Personally, as far as the show I don't think it should be in Chicago that early. I see no reason not to move it a little further south to help everyone. The question is can it be done for 2009 in such a short amount of time?

AnandaHexen
04-17-2008, 10:20 AM
Neena,

Good Plug!! :)


Having been to Transworld only once helping a vendor and then numerous years as an actor/make-up artist/general love of haunted houses, I am not going to make much of a statement about the TW vs Houston show. That is something I don't have sufficient knowledge of to comment on. Being a vendor is tough and it's getting tougher, with TW, every year. I am always impressed with how all of you do it. This post is about comments about the regional shows.

MHC is my show of preference for a variety of reasons: social, proximity (I'm near Cleveland), seminars, more friendly atmosphere, QUALITY, etc.
Those of you who are all hard-core about BUYER/SELLER shows have to remember that all the social stuff and the seminars that are geared toward acting and make-up came out so big for quite a few reasons, one of which was:.
HAUNTED HOUSE ACTORS and MAKE-UP ARTISTS

Chances are that your haunt started with actors, has actors and will have actors. (if it doesn't, that is a whole different topic..... eek!)
The social events and seminars are there to IMPROVE YOUR HAUNT!!! The more you know= the more your actors will know= the better your haunt is=the more money you make.

While I don't think that an infinite number of regional conventions is at all good for the Haunt Industry, I don't think we should downplay the good that they are doing for said industry. I realize there is a limit to how many and when vendors can make it to sell at conventions in order to reach the customers they need and get the orders to them in a timely manner and I am not arguing that at all, but the customers need the stuff that helps the rest of the haunt too and while all the DVDs out there are definitely improving, they are no replacement for quality education by industry people from different regions across the country.

That said, good luck to buyers and sellers, I hope the industry can find a logical and easier resolution to the problems and move on to the fun that we all joined this industry for in the first place.

drfrightner
04-17-2008, 11:43 AM
You are 110% correct about MHC...great people, who really care! They have passed Hauntcon like a speeding bullet, because they treat their guests with inredible care!!! Congrats to Neena and Kelly! And Neena is right they have become the #1 regional show without a doubt and their vendor list grows while Hauntcon on the other hand dwindles.

WHY... well again Vendors can not do 10 zillions shows, they just can't so you pick and choose.

I do feel that this new Eastern Haunters Convenion has so many pluses its not even funny and I can easily see that one climbing the latter quick!

Again as for TW, we need a buyers sellers show first and foremost and that is the debate here, not whether MHC is great or whatever.

That is the current dilema.

Larry

graystone
04-17-2008, 11:48 AM
I am confused are you for or aginst TransWorld? I know I am hearing alot about MidWest but really as of right now they are all still smaller compared to TransWorld.

Cookie Crumbler
04-19-2008, 03:53 PM
January Transworld = Bad, bad, bad.

I am rooting for Kevin and company, with their new vendor coalition, to save us from this sorry turn of events.