View Full Version : Shady Buyers
05-07-2008, 06:43 AM
Ok We have all HEARD about the BAD VENDORS, heres a question for the VENDORS out there,
What do you do about BAD BUYERS, you know the guys, the buyers that Misrepresent themeselves, to portray themselves larger than life to get Huge price breaks, Then sell your product below any reputable source, Discounts on shipping, the guys that cancel out on a order when notified its ready to ship.
How do you handle Bad Buyers.
In my eyes you really dont know they are a bad buyer until after you have sold to them. do you chalk it up to lesson learned? goes without saying not to sell to them again.
what are some of YOUR BAD BUYER HORROR STORIES?
05-07-2008, 11:06 AM
At Transworld, I purchased the a case of the BodyBagging DVD by asking "what is the wholesale price?" and offering my Business Card and RESALE NUMBER AS A VALID BUSINSS! No other qualifing questions were asked! I'm selling a copy at below full price because it's OFF-SEASON and I was using an eBay relist credit before it expired...Well I received this email today -
"What a shady little dealer you are. First you secure our product at major price break thru misrepresentation. ( BTW before you go into your speel saying you didnt, Im going to have to believe my wife over you, common sense dictates that.) Now you are undercutting the price on our product. Good luck catching a deal with Haunt vendors in the future. BTW I suggest you secure your own pics of the dvd because you are using artwork not authorized to you. I will report it as such."
I asked before about using Tatoo's testimonial and received this...
Thanx for contacting me, Tattoo actually gave me a call earlier, and I was going to give you a call regarding this matter.
When Atalie approached me about selling you a case of DVDs she was under the impression that you were a Brick and mortar store, and I shot you a case at the same pricebreak we give to retailchains on the product, for large quanitys, because I personally want our Product in every single outlet I can get it in, and Im willing to cut a smaller store a break.
Although we appreciate your business, I need you to know that under no circumstances would I have cut you a wholsesale price break of that nature had I known our newly released DVD would have been on EBAY, a week after its debut.
I am now clearly Competing with my own DVD a week into its release.
Again we appreciate the business and good luck with your sales and the season. Rob Johnson"
AFTER THIS - THEY SOLD to ANOTHER eBay seller!
"Roger, Lessons learned each and every year, I guess Its part of doing business, I chalk up that Last year My biggest mistake was not listening to Customers, I think maybe this year will have to be Listen to the Buyers a lil closer.
As for lowering your prices to move your units faster, I suggest you do so. you Mentioned that I seemed upset because IM competing with my NEW RELEASE a week after its DEBUT.... WAS a SURPRISE, am I Pleased By it, NO... But we did sell you the product and I expect you to sell it.
But I can quarantee no one will recieve the DVDs from BBE for Retail cost again unless they are order the minimum amount of cases. Lesson learned."
So now, I'm being called a liar and I'm not allowed to use stock photos to sell the product I purchased! Not very business like, however, I'm repling here both to the obvious dig about my integrity and an industry vendor's SELLER'S Remorse.
Roger / Heartstoppers
Edit, I see now why they emailed! They had one up for $19.95 already and I went $17.95. I don't check other people listings before I list, I just threw it up! Well, at least I can price match to be fair... I DID NOT UNDERCUT ON PURPOSE TO COMPETE WITH HIS CURRENT LIST, BUT UDERCUTTING DOES HAPPEN ONLINE AND IN RETAIL!
05-07-2008, 11:42 AM
Heartstopper funny how you knew I was referring to you, and for the record no-one else would have known this.... to prevent drama.
I contacted you on ebay, Not here to prevent this from happening... and yet here we are.
and yes we are selling our DVDs on ebay to COMPETE with OUR OWN DVDs sold by YOU.
AS FOR CALLING YOU A LIAR, I ASSUME YOU FELT IT WAS OK TO CALL ATALIE A LIAR.
For the record anyone asking for wholesale was asked if they had a store.
Larry pull this thread .
05-07-2008, 11:42 AM
Rob, perhaps in the future have the "suggested retail price" marked on the items? But THANK YOU so much for being concerned for the brick and morter stores. I have a retail store, and the online/ebay dealers are killing the retail stores. How can a guy like me who has rent and utilities try to compete with John Doe who buys an item for $5 and sells it for $6.50?
05-07-2008, 11:52 AM
Dirk, Everything we sell, we sell at a capped price on our website, that way we are never underselling our customers with brick and mortars. The only time prices are lower is for Events, and we would never give major pricebreaks to Ebay sellers.
We do small amounts of retail at our locations so we have resell certs and tax id's out the ass, but not normally for what we need to buy at the show . A lot of the guys give us breaks just for the quanity of product we need to buy and some will not sell directly to a haunt at wholesale because thay don't want to piss off the mom and pop party stores. We need gallons (I'm streatching a point) of medical adhehisve & remover and the kryolan rep refused to sell to us becase we had no store front but yet still told me the amount we needed excede (kinda rymes ) what they normally sell to all the stores in our area combined - so let with the choice of buying all the mom& pops out at twice the amount or changing products we lucked out and found an ok product to take the Kryolan products place. We use what we buy and don't try to cut the guys out that give us a break ,
but if any store owner wants to buy wholesale and sell for less than cost it should be on them and judgeing( spelling sucks) by the amoutn of crap on ebay it is rampant
Ran out of steam - but I would also expect that if some one is doing it as a routine that sooner or later it is going to catch up with them and the vendors are going to black ball them and cut off the supply
05-07-2008, 12:32 PM
Just to clairify, I was listing for a DVD for $17.95 (now price matched to $19.95) on a
$24.95 SRP item OFF-SEASON. Don't B&Ms have to run clearance sales for seasonal
merchandise? Or use low pricing as a loss leader? Competitive pricing is a standard in retail.
I was told "good luck with your sales and the season. Rob Johnson"
Then a month later - called a liar and told I'm being reported to eBay!
BodyBag actually STILL sells more DVDs through auctions and usually gets more
money because thay allow auctions and take other forms of payment, where I only
take immediate purchase and Paypal OnlyÖ
"Good luck catching a deal with Haunt vendors in the future"
I've been selling online, mainly on eBay, for over TEN YEARS and now
someone wants to threaten my business because THEY made a mistake!
It not like Iím selling burned or stolen copies, but now I deserve to be
blackballed from the industry for using standard retail practices?
What would you all here suggest I do?
Give me a free one - Just kidding I already bought one-I wasn't saying to black ball you I was saying shit happens but if someone is making a run of undercutting then that would make bad for the rest of us that buy under resale for our own use or to sell in stores - I don't think you did anything wrong what is the diffrence if you offer it at a buck less on e-bay or in your store I don't think you are hitting as many people as Rob does that go to him specifically for that purpose -
but I'm am always up for a good witch dunking so lets get a pole and some rope and throw you in the lake
05-07-2008, 12:51 PM
I had promised myself not to jump in but I need to.
I will vouch for Heartstoppers as an honest seller and distributor. I have known Roger for many years and have always thought highly of him as both a person and as a business.
I am offended by the mud being thrown because of him practicing honest business.
I have a product myself being sold through various online venues, both brick and mortar and internet only. They have varying prices as their markup. I have no problem with that, for that is the nature of business. The same applies to closeout pricing. Unless a manufacturer has given you a strict MSRP guideline, they do not have a lot to go on.
Roger, I highly suggest, simply ship back the Boddybagging product and close out all accountables with them. You do not need this kind of abuse whatsoever and it does not need to go into a long drawn out match. You have other manufacturers who have product you represent and know of your integrity over years.
05-07-2008, 12:54 PM
personally I suggest you drop it, because again you brought this to the public attention of one of the buyers I was referring to....
And once again the only mistake we made was taking a buyers word for it when asked if they had a store.
On that note, thank you for raising the price on your DVDs, and you said that you did not intentionally undercut our pricing, then I apologize for the negative email.
05-07-2008, 01:04 PM
Nightmare tony, I did not post this post about Heartstoppers in general, If he hadnt jumped in, no-one would have ever know I had a issue with him.
I Didnt throw Mud at him for practicing honest business, in fact i didnt throw mud at him at all....
If you say hes a honest vendor, hes got alot of EBAY positives and I can take that at what its worth.
I have stated from the beginning that I feel he misrepresented himself, That I did have a problem with that, and do.
did i contact him on ebay, and express my displeasure yes.
Did i want for the whole hauntworld to jump in on this NO.
again larry pull this thread.
05-07-2008, 10:25 PM
When we go to shows like Transworld to make purchases we do so with the assumption that we can resell the product through any distribution method we have. I have never had a vendor say that we can't have wholesale prices if we sell on an auction site. As a matter of fact if any vendor ever even considered telling me this I would never even visit there booth again. I am at a wholesale show buying products to resell. So yes the people you are selling to will in effect be your competition to a certain degree. The benefit you have is the pricing which you can undercut. If you are selling at a wholesale show don't ever tell me where I can or can't resell it. You will see your client list shrink real fast.
05-07-2008, 10:26 PM
And yes many retailers will take a loss on an item to get new customers in the door which he was probably trying to do.
05-07-2008, 11:48 PM
My friend all I can say is looks like we just need to remain quiet and turn the other cheek as long as its not Ben,Larry,Keith and the other couple of love boat riders its ok. Dont beat a dead horse whatever you do. Give him time, hell give him 10 years and he will make it right with you. Karma is a b*^#h and what goes around comes around. Your products are great and your company is honest and hard working, Your in good company with many great vendors out there. Dont do as I did let one bad experiance get you down. You cant win here. But in time the Titanic will sink and and a new bigger ship will sail. And thats more than my 2 cents worth. Thats a fact. Hang in there man if it gets bad pull a self pitty card and tell the world your going away. You will sell one million DVD's. And if your really lucky you will get a call begging you to change your mind. Honestly man your awsome in my book. Shane
05-07-2008, 11:50 PM
Good one Shane.
05-08-2008, 04:35 AM
Grimley, I understand your post, but I will not give internet auction wholesalers the same pricebreak of a Brick and mortar, we turned away quite a few Internet resellers wanting maximum pricebreaks, with promises of purchases in the thousands....one at a time.
Why would I give a guy that is sitting in his basement, wanting me to dropship everything, one at a time, never having to touch my product, the same pricebreak of a Large brick and mortar that bought 3000 units, so he can collect maximum profit for being intellegent enough to copy and paste a picture., with no overhead.
As for your second post, about getting customers in the door, This was more of a case of being able to offer the DVDs at a GREAT price for brick and mortars, to get OUR foot in THEIR doors, we offer a great line of FX appliances and it all goes hand in hand. There is NOWAY I would give a internet reseller 750 worth of merchandise for 150, not happening.
Shane this is a classic example of things getting out of hand, This post did not recieve ONE legitmate reply from a vendor responding to the original question... It took a turn into Internet DRAMA, Ive asked Larry 4 times to remove this thread, before all the drama spills over. I can only assume that Its not been removed due to DRAMA creates HITS.
Larry Please remove this THREAD.
05-08-2008, 07:24 AM
Let the thread remain and hopefully more vendors will weigh in. Again its a loosing cause because your on the wrong end of the rope. Keep it lets see where it goes and if you dont have any other vendors address this then take the rope and tell the world you and your family have had enough and your company will reap the rewards of self pitty!!!!! Just my thoughts. Again you know your honest and hard working and at the end of the day thats going to work in your favor. I think you and others see where I am taking this. The love boat crew on the other hand may not as they are behind the haunt walls plotting their next move on ways to keep padding their own pockets. They have sold their souls to the devil! Remember there is a new ship being built it will be better,faster,non protective of the bad,honest, and wont turn on you only for personal gain. The Titanic is sinking and a new boat is heading your way. Shane
05-08-2008, 08:07 AM
with NightmareTony....send the DVD's back...wash your hands - be done...chock it up to experience, and move on...
Never understood this.
Vendor sells a product at price A for a standard order, at price B for a big order and at price C for a huge order. Each of these prices nets the vendor the profit he wants to make per the volume sold, yes?
After that, the vendor is no longer involved. He's made his money.
But there are quite a few vendors who act as if B&M stores are the be-all and end-all of the business. Quite a few who think they have some kind of 'right' to tell the buyer what they can do with what is now the property of the buyer--beyond basic safety and usage instructions.
If a buyer makes a huge order and qualifies for price C, does it matter whether he has a B&M store if he pays for his order?
And if so, why?
And finally, the strangest thing I've seen here is that, somehow, a buyer/retailer can undercut the manufacturer/vendor without the retailer having to take a loss. Surely the manufacturer/vendor has priced his goods initially so that can not happen. He's making a profit off the retailer at even the price C cost, so even selling the product retail, at the price C cost, should net the manufacturer/vendor some profit--AND be at a price where the buyer/retailer cannot sell it without taking a loss.
Now, if you're saying that the buyer/retailer is undercutting the retail price the manufacturer/vendor is charging, well that's really just too bad for the manufacturer/vendor. And it's not. THOSE products are paid for, you've already profited from that sale.
Besides, the manufacturer/vendor can easily undercut any retailer price from a retailer AND make a tidy profit.
A 'bad buyer' is one that doesn't pay when sold things on credit.
A 'bad buyer' is one that sends product back when they have no valid reason to do so.
A 'bad buyer' is one that buys your product so they can copy it and sell it for their own.
05-12-2008, 12:12 PM
Save me seat on that boat. I think their boat is the USS Minnow.. It's not sinking it's stranded and they don't have the brains to fix it. But Hey if I were on there with Mary Ann I wouldn't leave if they got it fixed...
05-12-2008, 12:33 PM
Any resellers who wants to bulk buy our product and undercut our list prices please drop me an email.... for all I care you can sell it cheaper that we sell it to you.
List prices have a mark-up built into them to make it attractive to resellers to market the product, if the reseller doesn't want to take advantage of the full mark-up then that's their loss.
I don't know what the rules are in the USA but here in Europe a manufacturer or wholesaler who dictates the price that a reseller sells at is breaking the law.
05-12-2008, 01:08 PM
can sell to whoever they want to, or not. With that said, the most expensive place to buy Goodyear tires is usually at a Goodyear dealer. The manufacturer sets a retail price and hopes everyone will follow their lead. But discounters are often able to keep their costs down or sell an increased volume to make enough profit to get by.
05-12-2008, 02:12 PM
Phoenix here in the states, a manufacturer can set a MAP pricing,
which is manufacturer advertised pricing, a reseller is not allowed to sell under that.
05-12-2008, 02:41 PM
Phoenix here in the states, a manufacturer can set a MAP pricing,
which is manufacturer advertised pricing, a reseller is not allowed to sell under that.
That's illegal in Europe, many big manufacturers (automotive, clothing, books, drugs, perfume etc [ie the real big ones]) tried to stop supermarkets undercutting their RRP (recommended retail price) and got their a$$e$ kicked out of court.
05-12-2008, 02:49 PM
In the United States, it's called "price fixing" and it is quite illegal. Thats where the manufacturers SUGGESTED retail pricing (m.s.r.p.) comes in. Unless someone has the MAP contract (which is volutarily agreed to by the purchasing agent), they are subject to this law. Larry Bones - Bone Yard Effects
05-12-2008, 03:50 PM
Well, to get back on topic...not one bad buyer.
05-12-2008, 04:18 PM
the title of this thread a few days ago I was kind of bothered by it. While the person in question made a purchase, he wasn't a buyer in the sense most people think of. When I saw the title Shady Buyers I was thinking of those end users who buy at retail. A better heading might have been Shady Resellers.
05-12-2008, 04:57 PM
With some slight reservation I am weighing in on this topic.
As long as you meet our minimum order amount to get a discount, then I don't care what you sell it for. I'd rather sell to any kind of store front and let them deal with the shipping and billing etc. What I don't care for (even though I begrudgingly do it) is drop shipping for a web store, you post my product at list price, you sell one and I do all the work while you make a profit, now I understand the cost of doing business even on the web and I also understand that this is a sale I might not otherwise have gotten so I just tend to turn the other cheek and do it.
I've just learned to structure my pricing in a manner that works best for us, if you buy bulk you get a great deal, if you have an on-line store and sell my products, you get a slight discount but not as much as the guy who buys bulk.
You just have to adjust your methods and pricing to feel adequately compensated and not cheated by your own customers.
It gets touchy, but it can be done.
Now, what I consider a shady buyer is one who begs me to let them buy on credit then takes 8 months to pay for their order after my constant harassment of collection calls. Those people go in a special file and then I whack myself in the head for being a dummy.
05-12-2008, 05:32 PM
Killem All!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry B*#*A*#S!!!! Kill Everyone Of Them!!!!! Just my suggestion! Shane
05-13-2008, 10:34 AM
I didn't drag that out that long did I?
Damn they were supposed to hold that check for another 3 weeks.
You know there is no money in the account!!!!
Steve I can't hang out with you!!!!
You are the kiss of death sir!!!!! STILL!!!
05-13-2008, 03:04 PM
Oh Ken, You silly boy - You know you don't buy crap from us, so there is no way your payment could be late.
Oh and I'm gonna be looking for you at MHC, me and you buddy. You'll change your tune when the women flock to us like Seagulls to a hunk of stale bread.
05-17-2008, 11:18 AM
Wow, heated thread..... Some advice for those of you new to business...
Just to clarify MAP - minimum advertised price. A vendor cannot set the price at which you sell. That is price fixing. But the vendor CAN say that you will not reap the benefits of their cooperative advertising fund if you advertise below the MAP. Only big retailers care about this.
As to bad buyers... We sell only direct. We get 50% up front and the remainder just before shipping. We can't afford receivables and bad debt, our profit margins are invisible already. If you want to provide credit terms then you need to budget a certain percentage of bad debt as well as cost of money expenses.
We've only had one bad buyer in 4 years. First he wanted a big discount for which he would promote our brand name amongst the industry. Then he wanted to return the custom product for no particular reason. Because of his standing in the community he threatened us with bad publicity if we didn't agree to a full refund. We caved in but we have a long memory...... (it was not anyone on this forum as far as I know)
Another kind of bad buyer is the one who preys upon your generosity by claiming hardship or fake non-profit status,
Still another is the guy who says he is going to order a huge amount and negotiates the discount and then only orders one and expects the discount will hold because he will order more later. Those additional sales never pan out. We charge the full price on the first one and promise the discount will apply when he places the additional orders. That usually reveals the bluff. They cancel the whole order.
We sold a truck load of product many years ago to a big retailer whose name begins with K. We agreed to take back unsold product as part of the deal. But then they screwed up and never put the product on the shelves and when xmas was over they returned the entire order of a couple of mil. Who could budget for this kind of catastrophe?
When dealing with really large chains such as "toy stores are everyone" be ready to hear the buyer ask "what are you offering me to take this risk on your product". Bribes are common and almost expected when dealing in large orders.
Bottom line - if you continually take risks you will eventually get hurt. It is so much simpler to treat every buyer the same. And if you don't, they'll get together at the trade shows or elsewhere and share the methods they used to get discounts out of you. Don't provide credit terms if you can't afford the losses associated with them.
Now that I sound like I know what I'm doing I've got to figure out how to make a profit this year :(
05-17-2008, 06:51 PM
Great Advice Jerry!
05-18-2008, 12:21 AM
I decided to weigh in on this because I think I have a unique perspective to offer. I work for an international company that does 95% of it's business with holidays and a majority of that business is Halloween sales. We supply your suppliers and we don't sell retail.
Having said that, I work in the collections/receivables department. I have to say that we sell to some dot coms and we sell to major Halloween retail stores as well as Mom & Pop B&M's.
The biggest problem I have is with Mom & Pop B&M's. A big part of my collections work (and my headaches) come from them. They have the ability to close up shop on Nov 2nd and leave with our product. Phones disconnected. No forwarding addresses. Taking months and months to pay. These are the reasons they're called "bad buyers". The scary part is they call you the next Halloween and want to know why they can't have their old terms back or why they have to pay in advance! I have found that dot commers aren't the huge problem that all my co workers waned me they would be. Yes there's a few but the smaller escape artists are my biggest problems. While it may take many moons to jump through the hoops and get payment from the big chains, you know THEY aren't going anywhere. A majority of my problems are small B&M's that buy $100,000 or so and take off after Halloween. Now the orders are coming in for this Halloween and they turn up like bad pennies looking for product and get mad when we say no way. Pay your bills on time and you'll get your product.
Just my four cents.
05-18-2008, 04:02 PM
I own and run a surplus company and do sell many different kinds of merchandise. I would think this would be a great way to promote and sell a product.
1: Owner/Seller Introduce at a Hi retail price.
2: Sell to wholesalers/ Ebayers that will market (They use their OWN CAPITAL to advertise YOUR products) lower than your current retail price.
3: They make money moving your product.
4: You make money as the owner due to they purchase more merchandise (see 3)
It is a win win if you understand internet marketing.
I am new to the haunting side of things as I do a home haunt now and am slowly building to a featured event.
Just my 2 cents and also if anyone is looking for marketing for a product ( I have over 150,000 small business/wholesalers and surplus guys on my email list) I would love to market the halloween scene. Please feel free to give Shane a ring at 360-572-0665. Or you can contact me at my website www.closeout.cc
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