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graystone
07-06-2008, 07:12 AM
We all know were moving to St. Louis so with that do you think we can trust TransWorld from this point on? I have made my polls public so we can see who votes and who voted for what. I wished the other polls had been made public. Anyone got a comment on why the polls were made private? I myself dont have a problem with people seeing how I vote. Shane

MMManiac
07-06-2008, 11:32 AM
I think your going to get a split on this one. most people will probably support the st. Louis show (some with fear of retaliation from kip and larry if they don't) but Unless they spend mega money promoting this show its going to fail unfortunately...

graystone
07-06-2008, 05:44 PM
I think the damage is done as far as TransWorld goes they really let us down. We had a good thing going and they let one company split us. And that company is not even staying with TransWorld. Its a sad time as far as a Halloween/Haunt show goes! I also agree they gonna have to spend, spend, spend but I don't really feel they think were worth it. If they did they would have droped a ton of money already in past shows. Shane

screamline studios
07-07-2008, 11:18 PM
As i write this i am speaking for myself and not for screamline studios, so many times over and over we go to a show (show after show after show) in hopes our products and name becomes a common word for haunters so many times we give each product the same care we gave our very first piece.. but in the end!! yes we grew as a company and boy did that feel good, but being very honest folks what have you seen within screamline lately maybe a order going out early, or the wow factor of a prop you just recieved, i guess the point in what i am trying to say is the more shows you attend the more you are away from the shop and the more you are not creating what the public may want down the road, i personally love to sculpt, i love to paint, i love seeing the faces of everyone enjoying what we do, but in some bizarre way you loose that within the sales end of things. OK OK i am done rambling on............ so what the hell am i trying to say!!!! too many shows will kill my creativity, look at it from my side of the fence we have vegas, texas,mhc,haunt con,maybe horror hound, maybe 2 to 3 others, and now we have st. louis,what the hell guys? so many shows and no time to create!!!!!DAAAAA I AM DONE BITCHING....I love this industry and i would like to give everyone new products that makes people go WOW screamline kicks ass!!!! I personally do not believe at this point i will attend transworld st. louis but who knows maybe things will change in the off season.


These are just my thoughts

Jason Blaszczak


p.s my complaining has nothing to do with everyone who backs screamline , my complaining is mostly within myself and the fact that i do not have enough time in the day to give people what they may want, and at that point i feel like i let myself and everyone else down....

Nightgore
07-09-2008, 09:33 AM
It'll get to a point where eventually vendors will be forced to pick one or two shows to attend a year! I agree, doing so many shows will kill a companies creativity, so I guess you'll just have to pick only 1 or 2 shows to vend at!

Also, I think people are getting confused... exactly, what is in Texas? If it's the retail show, why do HAUNT vendors want to go to that show? St. Louis is not a new show (14th Annual Transworld Haunt Show)... just a new location! -Tyler

graystone
07-09-2008, 10:17 AM
A few things 1 YES sir TransWorld is most certinly a new show because its a Haunt only show before it was a Halloween/Haunt show. So I am sorry to say your dead wrong this is a new show. They have never done this before so again your wrong it is a NEW show in a NEW location. Ok moving on to Texas. Tyler, alot of Haunt Vendors are having a time making enough sales for Haunts only so they are trying to get their products in more retail line stores. The Haunt only show will not have a presents for retail and haunt buying with an exception of people lilke myself who also own halloween/costume/party shops. So just like the vendors will be forced to do more shows so will we be forced to attend more. AGAIN TRANSWORLD BENT US OVER ON THIS THEY COULD HAVE SAID PISS ON RUBIES BECAUSE THEY WERE PULLING OUT ANYWAY. But instead they split a show based on a few of the bigger names without mention to the smaller companies. What does this mean? There will be less booths than ever before and I will bet you on that one. Will the bigger companies have more booths? Maybe will they make more sales? Maybe but I dought it. So with all that said TransWorld is dying a slow death and really they have no one but themselves to blame because they allowed this. Tyler best thing you could do at this point is pack your pj's and head to Larrys in March this will be one of the last times you will get to see your idol up close and at a booth. The future of this industry is right here on the internet it don't cost them a thing to post videos of new products and the less spent will mean more profit to the hard working vendors.Shane

drfrightner
07-09-2008, 10:59 PM
I personally and only speaking for myself will ONLY ATTEND and EXHIBIT in St. Louis. I will not attend or exhibit at the Vegas show, Houston show, or any other Halloween related show. I will exhibit at IAAPA but that is an amusement show.

Again just speaking for myself, but I am pretty sure most of the major vendors will ONLY be exhibiting in St. Louis but they should speak for themselves.

As for Screamline... hey let me tell you guys something, this years Hauntshow is going to blow your socks off. You guys better be there or else we'll hunt you down with some of your own latex weapons!!!

Larry

graystone
07-10-2008, 06:00 AM
This should be your slogan! " I have a dream" Shane

Gore Galore
07-10-2008, 07:06 AM
Shane,

I know that the purpose of every action you do is to drum up controversy, but I will tell you right now that there are so many people involved in the development of this show it is amazing. Very unlike Years past.

And no we haven't consulted with you. And there is a good reason. Everything you do is to cause havoc and drama. And you enjoy it. Why would we involve someone who just wants to cause problems when we are trying to move in a positive direction?

Jason,
I think you and I need to talk because you obviously don't know anything that is happening. How do I get you in on everything?
You are not a member of HHVA are you?
If you have a problem with what is being done then get involved so you can contribute to the solutions. You can't complain if you are just sitting on the sideline watching the parade pass you by.

graystone
07-10-2008, 11:30 AM
I disagree with you I don't cause drama. I just speak whats on my mind. And although I do respect you and what your doing if you don't like my take on things then thats your problem not mine. From what many have told me thats been the problem with this industry for a long time people have been scared to speak up for fear or being booted from Larrys sight ( Larry nothing personal just whats been told and I am not scared to say it. Lennord himself and Noah both have told me they have never booted a person) or fear of vendors refusing to sell to the ones who speak up. Well I am here to tell you I am not scared I was brought up in the south where if there is a disagreement two men step outside and fight it out like men then they stand up and shake hands. So I am not scared to speak my mind. And I have noticed a change in people here as well. If a vendor wont sell to a buyer because he speaks his mind then his days are numbered in this industry. I mysef own my own company I deal with people I don't like all the time but you see just because I don't like them don't mean I don't like their money. Also Kevin I don't need anyone to consult with me or why should they I for sure am no ass kisser and thats who I feel y'all consult with. Hell why would you consult with someone who has expressed oppisition about this move. Remember you only want to talk and hear from people who was for the move. And besides why even talk about it whats done is done. So you talk about all the so called new people who's going to be there and we will talk about who all will not be there. And lastly Kevin never ever ask my oppinion on anything concerned with this show and TransWorld because you will not hear what you want me to say. Kevin again nothing personal to you we may not see eye to eye but outside of this were still friends at least I feel that way. One last thing Kevin what buyers did you consult with and were any of them aginst the move ?and do they still feel the same way. Would any of the buyers who was contacted like to answer this is Kevin dont want to name names. Shane

Gore Galore
07-10-2008, 11:56 AM
Now come on Shane.
You know you are a drama queen.

Shane, You also know I am open to hear what anyone has to say.
As long as they aren't just whining.
I want real input. and so does everyone involved. You know me better than that to say what you just said. You know you don't know what you are talking about.

Buyers and Vendors had their chance to express their approval and disapproval of the move or where to move to.
This was the decision. The buyers were split and the deciding vote was made by the vendors and the vendors voted St Louis.
Pretty simple facts.

It is past the time to do anything about the location. It is in St Louis.
Now it is time to help Transworld develop the show so it will be the best show ever.

I started a thread at the top of this forum and people are making great suggestions. All those suggestions are being discussed right now.
So, keep adding thoughts and that will also be discussed.

drfrightner
07-10-2008, 11:59 AM
Shane and everyone...

This show is happening and every vendor from Scarefactory to Skulltronix is coming and bringing more booths than before. I talked to Nethercraft for example who told me because of booth prices he's going from 2 to 4 booths, I talked to another vendors who said they are going from 4 to 8 booths, and another who's going from 1 to 4 and so on and so forth.

All of your favorite vendors are buying MORE booth spaces and bring MORE new products. If this isn't a benefit to you I don't know what is.

Lastly, the drama needs to stop maybe you could actually start offering our opinions on how many days do you think the show should be, to what should be the show hours to things you'd like to see changed or whatever.

Lets hear what you want this to be, this is our industries show.

Larry

graystone
07-10-2008, 01:31 PM
Again I do hold high respects for you. Larry let me say this and its not directed at you because I assume you have no control. I just think now, I am a buyer I know if this show don't live up to all they hype and have more vendors than in past years we going to be pissed and hell you own a haunt yourself and you should be pissed to. And when I say more I don't want to hear there was 10 more I mean there should be atleast 250 vendors at this show. At this point I don't see it and I hope I am wrong. But looks like there better be a hell of alot of new companies pop up within the next 8 months. I can understand the vendors saving more money and having bigger booths but bigger booths don't mean a bigger show. To have a bigger show you have to have more vendors offering different products. Again I hope I am wrong. Lastly Kevin I think Drama Queen is a bit gay how about calling me Drama King. A king whos fighting for all the buyer out there just as you are fighting for all the vendors and for that I do say your doing a good job Kevin. So do you still love me? Shane

drfrightner
07-10-2008, 01:42 PM
Shane,

Now that is more dead on... I realize even though this is NOT MY SHOW, my name will be attached to it sink or swim. No let me change that to just SINK!

If the show swims it will be because of all the hard work everyone put into it which will be the truth. If it sinks, it will be all my fault, I realize that. My goal now is to do whatever I can, working within a team, a group of professionals to make sure that doesn't happen!

That is my goal.

I personally could care less if Transworld makes 10 zillion dollars, who cares. I don't care... they wouldn't do this if they couldn't make a profit and no one should that is absurd to think they should. I hope Transworld makes a million bucks, because if they make money we all created a show that is a benefit to not only Transworld, but all buyers, and all vendors and that means everyone profited. That is all that matters, not who made more but that everyone was successful!

We all have different levels of success as some of us have 60 employees and others only 1 or two...

I'm on board and I'm going to do what I can to spread the good word!

Shane show us some love and help promote the good word my friend!

Larry

Monster-Tronics
07-10-2008, 02:44 PM
Shane,

Iím not going to get in a pissing match with you so Iíll just throw out my two cents and be done.

How many haunt vendors were at TW Vegas last year? What maybe about 40? We already have more then that committed to St Louis and it is only July of 08.

TW Vegas last year was pretty empty, you could look down aisle ways and only see a hand full of people. Normally in past years you could not even walk down the aisle way there were so many people.

Iím betting TW Vegas 09 is going to be a ghost town and I mean that not in a good wayÖ No way in hell do I want to be there vending.

Iím sure all of the vendors would love to do all of their business through the internet, it would save us and you the buyer a ton of money, but most vendors probably do 80% to 90% of their business from shows. I donít see tradeshows falling to the web anytime soon.

I think St Louis is going to be a great show, buyers are going to bringing their checkbooks and vendors are going to bring a lot of the best stuff they have to offer. Heck Iím still working on filling orders for this year but Iím planning new products now that are going to kick ass!

I donít know about the rest of you but Iíve been to Chicago, Vegas, & Orlando a million times, Iím ready to see something new, and whether you love Larry, hate him, or just donít care, itís a chance to see his show and decide for yourself if he put his money (and talent) where his mouth is. Just think of all of the junk you can sling at him if he screws up the tour! I can hardly wait, this is going to be a lot of FUN!!!

Nightgore
07-10-2008, 03:57 PM
IDK... maybe we should actually put into affect some forum rules, follow them, and start booting people of for not following them! Others sites/forums do it, we're the only one I'm a member of that doesn't? -Tyler

graystone
07-10-2008, 03:58 PM
No need to get in a pissing mach with me. Hell most of the time mine runs down my leg anyway! Ok so lets do this then we have seen Chicago, Vegas, were about to see St. Louis now hell lets see any suggestions on 2010? Might as well start thinking about it I think its a good idea to move it around. Larry where do you want to see it in 2010? Jeff? Kevin? anyone? I am thinking Orlando. myself. Shane

MMManiac
07-10-2008, 04:16 PM
Tyler, you would have just broke a rule by highjacking the thread as Larry calls it and posting something not even close to being on topic. There for you should be the first one banned from hauntworld... It's not like your 98% repeat posts are actually helpful anyways... ItS odd that everyone pisses about Shane and his posts, yet the threads where Shane post's all almost always 5 times as long as the ones where he doesnt post. Things that make you go hmmmm...

On a side not, ON TOPIC, im STILL very skeptical regarding this show. Travel costs are very expencive to go to a dud show. Until I see a physical list of all venders appearing Ill be on the fence post. Like Shane stated I dont care that their are 5 venders each with 100 spots. I would rather have 500 venders with one spot.

Sean and thats, Im now copying Shane to be like Tyler, Sean

graystone
07-10-2008, 04:31 PM
Come on now lets give little Tyler a job! Hey what do you think of Hall Moitor he can run and tell Larry when someone gets out of line. Tyler I have said this time and time and time again you have got to stand on your own two feet!!! Sean all I can say my friend is I hope were wrong on this one. My gut feeling is it will be the same as always minus the Halloween section. Either way man if we go and you go dinner is on me the first night. Hell we might even go over to Larrys and watch some movies later. Shane

graystone
07-10-2008, 09:45 PM
Anyone want to add to this thread? Shane

drfrightner
07-11-2008, 01:12 AM
Sean,

I don't understand your negative feeling here at all..

Let me fill you in on the vendors who are coming for sure...

Scarefactory (he's coming with all 20 booths worth just like Chicago just like Vegas)

Unit 70

Distortions

Ghost Ride

Pale Night

Creative Visions

Monster Tronics

Skull Tronix

Gore Galore

Ghoulish Gallery

Edge Design

Halloween Productions/HauntWorld.com

Dental Distortions

Spookywoods FX

Nethercraft

Scareparts

and so many more I can't name them all...

I'll bet you RIGHT NOW $50.00 bucks that even Haunted Attraction Magazine takes a booth. How much you wanna bet? And you know if he's coming it is clearly because he realizes for his own sake the sake of his business he will have to come! EVERY VENDOR IS COMING... there isn't ONE that I know of that isn't coming. Everyone and I mean EVERYONE that I have talked to said they are buyig booths and will be there.

Let me add another line here... not only are vendors telling me they are coming but that they are going to buy MORE booths than the year before, some double!

So as the Joker would say...'Lets put a smile on that face!'

Lets put a smile on your face and get you on board!

One haunt at a time, if that is what it takes!

Larry

graystone
07-11-2008, 06:24 AM
You did not answer my question where would you like to see the Halloween show in 2010 might as well start thinking of it. How does Orlando sound? I am for Orlando? I mean it would be wrong to keep it in St.Louis it should me moved from West to North and South to East that way everyone gets a chance to visit other cities and see other sights other than the same ones over and over. Also maybe more new local vendors could show. Remember the show is only open for 8 hours and we want more things to do at night. How about 2011 we could shoot for New York or PA. Sean I am still with you here on this one brother. Larry one other thing I know I am asking you lots of difficult questions that might put you on the spot but right now your holding your own. I noticed that you have not posted in a few days and my pole had that people don't trust TransWorld well as far as the ones that have voted and thats not many. Anyway now that your back its a tie and I feel that trend will continue. I thought I made this poll public but for some reason its not. Oh well anyway Larry I need to ask you this and I will need you to place your hand on the Bible for this question please. Larry are you playing with these polls here? The evidence is aginst you right now. But all suspects are innocent until proven guilty. The theam to COPS should be playing in your head as you read this. Shane and its Police Chief Shane this time!!!

bodybagging
07-11-2008, 07:01 AM
I keep hearing how everyone is going to be doubling and tripling their booth space because of the cheaper Booth rate. personally I cant see how saving 550 dollars is going to make me want to spend 2400 dollars, for two booths, especially when I will still have to do a additional show to market to retailers.
Im happy for everyone that the split show will benefit, but for Companies like myself, screamline, fearscape and others that are trying to expand into retail, this is not a win win situation.

Now before I get 300 responses telling me that I had a say so and didnt voice my opinion so I shouldnt be complaining now, First off, I am not complaining just stating my opinion, second off, I recieved a email that totally soured me from being a part of the new coalition prior to the MHC show.

Shane and others out there that are commenting that vendors should pass the savings onto the buyers, as harsh as this may sound, I can pretty much guarantee that BodyBag Entertainment will not be offering any discounts for the 2009 season, seeing how our expenses just doubled.

As Always, see you at MHC in 2009!

graystone
07-11-2008, 07:13 AM
When you put it like that I can understand why you can not offer additional discounts. Rob was you asked about your opinion as far as the move? And if you were did TransWorld listen? I am guessing a big NO my gut feeling is TransWorld only talked to whom they wanted to and the hell to the rest of you up and coming guys. Say it aint so Rob!!!! Also Rob I am sorry to hear in the long run its going to cost you more money by attending two shows. You are for sure a victem of unjust here. And I was afraid that would happen to vendors trying to get in retail markets. I was under the impression that booths would be half as much so how would or why would companies buy more booths if they are only saving 550.00 sounds like to me it could end up costing more if they bought more booths? And don't give me the TransWorld will give you a discount by attending 2 shows bull because they sure as hell cant give you dicsounts on getting your products there, your rooms, flights, food, ect. you still will be attending 2 shows!!! Rob I myself can say I am so sorry to hear that because in the end TransWorld is hurting up and coming vendors and its just plain wrong!!! Can you explain? Shane

bodybagging
07-11-2008, 07:21 AM
Shane, the coalition asked me to be apart of the Transworld meeting, they actually distributed flyers at MHC, to announce the meetings, from what I remember the title stated be there or be bankrupt. Perhaps it was a feeble attempt at humour, but after the email I recieved prior to MHC, it was enough to make me step away. From what I heard there were two meetings during MHC.

As for TW they have been trying to sell me a booth with weekly phonecalls, Of course with me being in the halloween section for 2008, I guess the fiasco within the haunt section doesnt apply to us.

graystone
07-11-2008, 07:31 AM
OMG dude" be there or be bankrupt" you should have brought this to everyones attention before now. This was almost like a threat NO it was a threat. Kevin you know I respect you but this needs to be addressed. Its almost like the new smaller or up coming vendors were bullied whats going on here? That was not the way to address them. What that tells us is that if you dont support it you will go bankrupt. Did they really have a choice this is an outrage. I know the big companies I deal with would not go for this I just know it. Shane

bodybagging
07-11-2008, 07:34 AM
Actually Shane , I have been laying low on the forums , because im tired of all the drama, which seems to buzz around what I say like flies on a turd. The Industry has enough drama without me adding to it.

MMManiac
07-11-2008, 08:12 AM
Larry, Im sorry if you took my post as being negative. Im sorry Im not as enthused as yo are about this show, but to be fair to me Your not flying to St. Louis, getting a hotel for myself and crew and trying to still have enough $$ to be able to support companies such as bodybagging.

Im not trying to deter anyone from going to the show in 09. I'm just pressuring the haunt gods to make this the best show possible because if its not and the huanters ar dissapointed with it, bye bye transworld!

bodybagging
07-11-2008, 08:17 AM
When you put it like that I can understand why you can not offer additional discounts. Rob was you asked about your opinion as far as the move? And if you were did TransWorld listen? I am guessing a big NO my gut feeling is TransWorld only talked to whom they wanted to and the hell to the rest of you up and coming guys. Say it aint so Rob!!!! Also Rob I am sorry to hear in the long run its going to cost you more money by attending two shows. You are for sure a victem of unjust here. And I was afraid that would happen to vendors trying to get in retail markets. I was under the impression that booths would be half as much so how would or why would companies buy more booths if they are only saving 550.00 sounds like to me it could end up costing more if they bought more booths? And don't give me the TransWorld will give you a discount by attending 2 shows bull because they sure as hell cant give you dicsounts on getting your products there, your rooms, flights, food, ect. you still will be attending 2 shows!!! Rob I myself can say I am so sorry to hear that because in the end TransWorld is hurting up and coming vendors and its just plain wrong!!! Can you explain? Shane

Actually Shane seeing how all the large Retail sellers are going to be in houston, Im fairly certain that ALL of the MAJOR RETAIL BUYERS will be in Houston as well, meaning thats where us companies that wish to sell to the retail market will be. I believe the term here is FOLLOW THE MONEY.
With that said, It is doubtful we will be attending the TW halloween show, thus no discounts apply there for us. Im also fairly certain that the HOUSTON show will not be offering us a discount either seeing how they are a totally seperate show.
One huge thing I am concerned with is the fact that Houston has made it clear that they do not want haunters at their event, I can only wonder how this will affect our sales, seeing how we straddle both sides of the fence. I fear that if the major retailers whisper in the ears of the major buyers negative words of wisdom towards us few haunter/halloween vendors... Perhaps we will se zero sales....

Gore Galore
07-11-2008, 12:13 PM
Rob,
You really need to learn to take things a little less seriously or else you are going to have a stroke or a heart attack and I am 100% serious about that.

The comment on the flyer, "Be there or be bankrupt" was both a joke and a serious note. If vendors are not paying attention to what is happening they are going to get left behind.
That comment was supposed to make sure they see the importance of knowing what is going on. That meeting was very important, and helped to shape the way this show is happening.
You were not at the meeting so you didn't know what was happening.
How else can you explain it. You have NOT involved yourself in any discussions. Who is to blame for that? How can you know what is going on if you are not paying any attention?

graystone
07-11-2008, 04:20 PM
this is some shit. This is getting worse than who shot JR. Kevin I think you may be playing the Kristine here you remember she shot JR. Kevin what can you do to correct this? Also I need you to get with me on the Buyer Association. We might be like the Hatfields and the Mcoys. Shane

bodybagging
07-11-2008, 04:51 PM
Kevin you are right I was not there, but after reading a email that threatened to blackball me and inform the hauntworld that I was untrustworthy if the word got out about a subject that I had already been informed of by a few others outside of the VENDOR COALITION, prior to receiving said email.
heres a small excerpt of the email:
"And I am sad to have to say this, but if we find out someone has released the information we are about to discuss you will be banned from the group and we will make sure everyone knows you are not to be trusted."
Perhaps this too was a feeble attempt at humour, but when something is addressed directly at me well....Again this subject was already the talk of the town prior to me receiving this email.
Kevin I respect you, but gotta be Honest, I dont appreciate threats from anyone, and personally for a BRAND NEW ASSOCIATION, I dont think SCARE TACTICS is the way to gain members.

As for me not being in any discussions, yes you are right about that, BUT BIG BUT , in the Very beginning of the Coalition, I let all of you know, I would not download Yahoo to receive messages seeing how it fraks my machine every time. But i realize I am only one vendor who would have preferred a private forum instead of a email system that blows my computer up, compared to all of you that like 100 emails a day.

Gore Galore
07-11-2008, 04:55 PM
Shane,
The only way to fix any of this is for everyone to grow up, stop acting like children fighting at a playground and making this industry what it needs to be. Stop all the political bashing, and work together.

The lack of professionalism in this industry is unacceptable.
All the back biting and bickering.
We are professionals, so lets act like it.
Whining and complaining is not professional.
I never noticed it so much until I began working to improve our vendor situations.

That is why the HHVA was started. So, Vendors can communicate on a professional level and discuss what needs to change in this industry and how to change it.
That is what the HHVA is doing.
We see things in this industry we think needs to change, and we are changing it.

I know we may be ruffling some feathers. Change is scary. I can understand that. But this has to happen if we want to continue to grow.

I hope everyone can respect that.

Gore Galore
07-11-2008, 05:11 PM
Rob

That statement was not directed at you, or anyone specific.
This was sent to the entire group. You are one of 60 companies who received that information.
But this is exactly what i am talking about.
How is this for a lack of professionalism.
We started a group and tried to keep our conversations private just so we ALL could help each other formulate our own opinions of our industry without anyone meddling in our private conversations. Just so no one felt manipulated to side with any one perspective or another. It is all about collecting all the information and forming our own personal thoughts.
And someone or more than one were forwarding our communications to persons outside the group and those individuals were harassing group members and trying to sway group decisions with the information.
And all I can say is I and the entire group felt betrayed.
So, that post was to help curb that behavior.
That is also why all members have to agree to keep group discussions within the group until a decision is made by the group to go public with the information.

I hope you can understand all this. And I am sorry if you felt personally attacked in anyway. The only reason I am posting this to Hauntworld is you also choose to post this information here.

If you want to have a conversation about this more then lets please keep this kind of content off the list. YOU have my email.

This stirs up drama. And you already stated you want to avoid drama.

graystone
07-11-2008, 05:32 PM
Just a thought. But why cant the buyers have a say its like we are being talked about and things being talked about behind our backs. Its like do it now and apologize later. I know its a Vendors show but Kevin its A BUYERS MARKET!!!!! I think what Rob done is great it shows us potential customers that hes going to be honest and keep us informed of things that not only effects him but us buyers as well. Rob man I am honored to see you post here. Kevin dude come on help us out here secrets can hurt people!!! Nut, Sean anyone give me some feedback here men!!! Shane and its hurt Shane this time!!

Gore Galore
07-11-2008, 06:02 PM
Shane,
There are no secrets.
I swear you are such an instigator.
I don't want to waste my time posting, but you keep drawing me in because you make me feel I have to defend what we are doing.
we are doing everything to build the best show we know how.

we are working on the
"Crowne" of St Louis
Larry is working on the "Darkness" tour.
Mark is working on a possible party at Creative Visions.
And many are working on the best seminar series ever.
Good hotel costs.
Expanding the type and # of vendors
Expanding the type and # of buyers

that is all I know right now.

graystone
07-11-2008, 07:02 PM
Looks like all you lil Devils are working on all kinds of things! Kevin don't forget one of the biggest projects yet the "We Are The World Video" with you, me , Larry, Sean, Nut, Paul, Jason, Rob even little Tyler and the whole HauntWorld industry. Remember were putting out a video to raise money for Larrys Darkness and some of you Vendors will get a good chunk off the rolities from this video too. You need to call me we have got to go over this damn music!!! We are the world! We are the children!! We are the Haunt Industry and were going to make the world a brighter place in St. Louis!!!!!!! Come on sing it with me!!!!! Shane and its Record Producer Shane this time!!!!!

Nightgore
07-11-2008, 07:12 PM
"... I wanna teach the world to SCREAM... " -Tyler, who's singing an old tune! ;)

hauntedhousenut
07-11-2008, 10:45 PM
The bottom line here is that the vendors have way more to lose that buyers, when buyers come to the show sometimes they buy, and sometimes they don't, and all their out is airfare, hotel, and food.

The vendors on the other hand, are out that and more, remember they get there days before buyers show up, and leave usually a day later.

Shane let it play out.

drfrightner
07-12-2008, 12:32 AM
Kevin,

Shane now reminds me of the new Joker, in Batman Dark Knight. Watch the interviews of the cast, they will tell you the Joker is not com committing crimes for money, or any motivation, he has no empathy, he just wants to watch the world burn, you can't reason with The Joker, there is nothing you can leverage against him to make him go in the right direction. The Joker just wants to cause as much chaos as possible.

Batman asks in the movie "why do you want to kill me" and the Joker replies back "I don't want to kill you what would I do without you". Shane doesn't want to kill the show, he doesn't want Larry his current nemisis to fall off a cliff, I eventually figured out he didn't want Keith to resolve their problems, he just wants loves to keep this issues out there for his own amusement.

So there is no point to attempt to reason with him...

Most of the citizens of Gothem choose for the city to be crime free, happy, no gangs, no violence, it is only a handfull of gangsters that want crime and chaos to continue. The only thing you can do is ignore it... Most of the haunters in this industry want this show, can't wait for this show, are already booking hotels, EVERY SINGLE VENDOR I've spoken to is DOUBLING the size of their booths, and when I say double well i should say some are going four times bigger. This show will be THE BOMB not A BOMB!

Shane will be in St Louis wearing a St. Louis Cardinals hat and and a t-shirt that reads 'I visited the Arch today' LOL... so what is the point to argue with him.

Shane...errrr Joker.... errr Shane did you already book your hotel, flight, tell us what airline, what hotel and what time you get in so I can come down to the bar and buy you a drink but nothing high in caffiene because I doubt any of us could take you on 3 or 4 red bulls!

LOL

Larry

Monster-Tronics
07-12-2008, 02:09 AM
Hauntedhousenut, you are so right about what it takes to be an attendee vs vendor!!! Iíve attended many a tradeshow as an attendee your prep time is buying an airline ticket or filling up your car with gas and packing some extra undies in a bag. After you get there you wake up when you feel like it, have a leisurely breakfast (or lunch) and stroll into the tradeshow floor.

As vendors we are busting butt for a month or two straight getting new products finished, putting together flyers, catalogs, pricelists, website updates, announcements, building stock, working on booth displays, banners, flooring, power, air, electric, packing, shipping or renting a truck, driving some junky truck 30 hours straight, unloading, getting railroaded by some union jerk, sweating like a pig setting up your booth till 2am with no air-conditioning or power or air so you canít test anythingÖ. I have a tradeshow list that is two pages long of things-to-do before the show. I also donít sleep for two months before a showÖ

When I worked for a real company, we had a group of about a half dozen people that only worked on tradeshow stuff, plus they would pull in help to man the floors. As haunt vendors, I can guarantee you that NONE of us have a half dozen employees only doing tradeshow stuff. It is normally the owner doing most of this.

Larry, I like your analogy of Shane to the Joker, it is very fitting.

Shane, you are way off base here. As the end user you should be kissing Kevinís ass right now for what he and many others have done so far to get and keep this vendors group together. We are NOT conspiring together on how to screw customers, itís just the opposite, we are working to keep customers from getting screwed or buying a product that blows up in your face, or working to keep yours and our tradeshow pricing down so your not paying a fortune for the next haunt widget you buy.

Just like a haunt owner, a haunt vendor has a lot of issues, insurance, employee issues, product issues, product delivery issuesÖ. Some of our groups goals are to have a Good Vendor Seal so you can buy from those vendors in March and get your product in time for the season and when you call a vendor they answer the phone, or if you have a problem, the vendor acts quickly to resolve it. That is the bottom line here, end of story. Iíve seen and heard so many customers getting screwed by some companies that it is just blows my mind you all take it year, after year, after year. It should not be that way. You know from experience what one has to go through when you have problems with a company just get product that you ordered. Your goals and needs are the same as HHVAís.

Rob, man buddy, where do I start, Iím at a loss again. In the beginning when Kevin and I talked about starting the group you said you wanted to participate.

You keep blaming Yahoo for the reason you are not participating, but you are signed up to the Yahoo group, I can see your profile in the members list. Those emails you get just donít drop out of the sky and are not directed only to you. Yahoo is an email broadcast service, that means that everyone that is signed up to the group gets broadcast emails as someone posts. It is also web based, there is nothing to download to your computer, you sign up from the web and depending on what you select is how you get the posts. If you are getting the emails there is nothing else you have to do. If you want to respond to the group you just hit reply on your own email program and everyone in the group gets your response.

You say you heard the info from someone else and not for the group, well if youíre getting the emails then you heard it from the group or if you didnít read your emails, from someone that is in the group or has attended the meetings.

If it was not for the group 98% of the vendors would not have a clue of what is going on. If vendors sit back and donít participate you get what you get. Also, those vendors that sit back will also not be vendors that will rise to the top of the haunt industry the way I see it. As the old saying goes ďIf youíre not a part of the solution, you are part of the problem!Ē

Ok, Iím done for now, guess Iíll go back to not sleepingÖ.

bodybagging
07-12-2008, 03:45 AM
Jeff, yes I signed on to the yahoo group in the beginning, because yes I wanted to be apart of something that would perhaps help the industry, against my better judgement I tried the yahoo thing, Once again Yahoo fraked my system, and I deleted yahoo from my computer. I do not recieve any emails from the yahoo group.
The One email I recieved was addressed to me at my AOL email and did not look like a group email, seeing how it started with ROB.
As for me getting emails regarding the supersecretivesubject that to was not from yahoo.
Kevin if I mistook the intent of that email, then Im glad that I did not send you my reply that I wrote, again I was not pleased.
Im sure the Vendor group is a good thing and will most likely help the industry, but I will not be downloading yahoo onto my system again, Ive tried it twice, one for this and one for theMCHC group, both times my computer frakked out and I deleted the yahoo from my system. This being the way the group communicates simply leaves me in the dark.

graystone
07-12-2008, 05:50 AM
Could it be that you may try to out smart me! Hummmm anyway Larry, Kevin, Jeff what about the music video? We need to meet and set this all up its going to take us all to pull the official Haunt Show Video ' We Are The World" off. Kevin one thing I can say is I never ment to imply that the HVA was trying to screw us buyers. Actually with you heading it up I think the opposite I know your honest and hard working and I know with your group that will be passed on as a must. What I was saying is wrong to do some of the hush hush things without consulting with buyers. If you say you do ok but I would like to know who they are? I can say no one I know. Also I think you need to call Rob and talk to him because its apparent that the "threat" weather of not it was ment that way came off that way. And there is things going on in the HVA that hes not comfortable with. Kevin I want to put my blessings here but there is already a scandel on the horrizon and we need to map this out and get it cleared up. Rob if there is anything I can do on my end man just let me know. Shane and thats " Have You Ever Danced With The Devil In The Pale Moon Light " Shane this time!

Monster-Tronics
07-12-2008, 07:06 AM
Rob, We should take this off-line, but like I said, there should be nothing you need to download to your computer. If you want help, one of the adminís from the group can get you hooked up.

Sometimes there are browser add-ons that can mess with your browser but you do not need them to use Yahoo Groups. If you donít have email selected in your profile you will only receive ďSpecial NoticesĒ that are sent from the groups moderator.

Speculo
07-12-2008, 08:04 AM
Hey Jeff!

Being a vendor sounds just like opening a haunted house!

All of those sleepless nights in preparation are the same, The Tradeshow is opening night, and all the months of building and shipping orders are like the season.

When you ship your last order is like our November.

So Haunt owners when you walk the show floor next year and you see that mix of exhaustion, terror and pride on a vendors face, you can bet it is pretty much the same look you have on opening night every year!

Thanks!

Greg Chrise
07-12-2008, 08:44 AM
Yahoo and AOL do not play well together. Yahoo wants to make the computer it's bitch and there is no way to keep both services running even at operating system configuration.

So the only way really keep all the vendors in contact is the one laptop per vender program. You buy a laptop for a vendor and another gets donated to you at a cost of $200 per transaction. You can be a vendor in the jungle and wind it up with a crank for power! While gathering raw latex from the Congo!

MMManiac
07-12-2008, 08:51 AM
Kevin-

who is in charge of this "vender association" that allows posts to go out to its members threating them if they don't keep the conversations private? Thats completely obserd, and very unprofessional. And as much as you don't want to admit to it, you and your possie of venders can each have 1,000 booths, but it isn't a show unless us BUYERS are their... You want to make money. Us BUYERS are how that happens. I work for a hospital. We treat patients. We have a board of nurses and doctors that run the hospital. On that board we also have PATIENTS. Thats right patients as board members.... The same patients that give us $$ to keep operating.... My point? Include buyers in your association and it will go much further... Trust me you can make all the right products at all the right prices but buyers can easily form boycotts and bye bye business....

Shane... you seeing a Haunt buyers association forming here?

graystone
07-12-2008, 09:18 AM
OMG that post rocks!!! You are so right! Yes as soon as things settle down I want to get more imput from guys like you I think this HBA is a good thing we can use this to make the playing field even right now its like we spend the money and help build the companies but were not allowed our say. And its apparent the so called buyers that have a say are personal friends of the vendors. Aint that some crap! Any other buyers have any imput on this? Ben you seem like a good one to ask although you are friends with several of the vendors would you not agree that us buyers need imput? I got a feeling you are one of the few buyers that has had some imput but are you being unbiased? Ben this is not an attack just a question from one haunt owner to another. Paul my friend I know were on the same page give me your thoughts here as well. Shane

Nightgore
07-12-2008, 09:57 AM
Sean,

Your comparing apples to oranges! In healthcare, it's a MUST to have patients onboard because decisions will actually affect the care and LIVES of people. The HHVA really only affects the tradeshows/conventions... they're not like plotting anything against this industry or trying to rip us buyers off. If you feel that you must be represented to the HHVA as a buyer, the start a buyers association... but to me, it's just more seperating the industry.

Lets take a major corporation.... Toyota... and let's say you buy a Camry from them. Now, do you think you should be involved in board meetings and corporate decision making? NO!!!!! As a buyer, we should ONLY have input into these companies if we own stock in or have interest in the success of a company.

We are buyers... simply put. We spend money... simply put! If you guys want to be involved, then take the time to start a company and provide a serivce or product to this industry, THEN come back and argue your points.

I know there is a WHOLE LIST of vendors guarenteed to be at the show, but I also know a couple of vendors that ARE NOT GOING!!! But what can I say, it's THERE loss... not mine. That's the harsh reality of it, if you don't show... you get NO business... that's it. This industry is unique like that, our vendors can't put commercials up nationaly on TV for products like McDonald's and Toyota... so what can they do? Vend at a show that has the majority of the industry there. So, if a vendor doesn't show... who cares.... it's there loss....

It's the same with a buyer... don't show... it's your own loss and no one elses! -Tyler

graystone
07-12-2008, 10:19 AM
Tyler ENOUGH ALREADY WITH THE ASS KISSING THIS MUST STOP!!!! You may be looking for free products or something!! I can assure you this if there is a Buyers Association you for sure will be blacked balled by it. I think even the people whos ass you are kissing is even sick of it. I am not for sure if your a pro haunt or not If memorie serves me correct. This will be your first year. I have been doing haunts for 20 years. Sean I know for 10. Larry and Ben and many more as long as me. My point here is why get involved in shit you know nothing about just because you want to make Larry and a few others proud? Until you spend hundreds of thousands of dollare sit your little ass down and stfu. I am sorry but dang man do you ever just add your own two cents worth in. When were all in St. Louis haveing a good time after hours your gonna be all alone as you see the vendors will hang with the buyers and you will not have a place to hang because no one will want you or allow you. I am sorry yes this is harsh but I am only saying what people are thinking. Tyler just sit down till you can hang with the big boys and add your own comments which are your own thoughts!!!!!! And in case your two damn stupid to see what Sean was saying let me tell you because your such a kid you cant see his point. His point is the HVA needs to have buyers prestent in these discussions so its an even playing field and the buyers know the game plan of the vendors. He was not comparing a Hospital to a Haunt persay. God I have just busted a bolld vessle thanks to your childish bull! Shane and its headed to the Hospital Shane this time. Oh yeah Sean I will talk to the hospital board while I am there for Tyler!

drfrightner
07-12-2008, 11:19 AM
As for the vendor group, I'm not sure how inclusive this thing is or isn't... certain people are not allowed to be member like myself. I know others who have joined, been removed, and then some are added and some quit (probably typical of most start up groups). I think if you are going to have a true vendor association you should clearly define what your goals are, what you will try to accomplish, and how you will get there. Finally you should determine who qualifies as a vendor, and clearly outline that, and once you do, do not single out who can or who can't join. Because my view a guy who soley pours latex is NOT the only haunt vendor. Speaking for myself I buy equipment, products, and services from so many people it isn't funny. That is a real problem in our industry, we typically only associate a guy who owns a

That is the problem with our industry... we have no haunt owner association because of power struggles, people hijack the thing like what we are seeing right now with Tim Gavinski, just using IAHA for his own personal benefit, it doesn't represent our industry, it represents personal agendas. This is my view of the thing.

If this new vendor assocition will succeed it will succeed only if it doesn't follow the failed path of IAHA, and learns from past mistakes. Additionally it will need to be fearless of the path it takes and who joins and who doesn't and stick to the goals and the agenda, and never allow the thing to be swayed by personal agendas.

The vendors SHOULD have their own association, but who is a vendor and who isn't? Should you not allow certain people because you don't trust them but then turn around and accept someone who is clearly not a real vendor?

If anything is going to survive long term you 110% need full participation from all vendors no matter what they hope to see the group accomplish. The only way any association can be trusted is when ALL feel they have a voice, their opinions matter, and the group is operated in a fully democratic fashion.

I hope that is the agenda of the new vendor associaion, and if so I would do anything I could to support their agendas, and goals as long as it is for the betterment of the vending industry.

It is a lot of hard work to accomplish these goals, and takes a dedicated group of leadership to hold it together!

True you have to start somewhere but in the longterm, you must earn ALL vendors trust to have full support. As for not being allowed to speak about the goings on within the group, that will never happen so shouldn't be enforced. Nothing these days can be kept secret, as we see on sites like TMZ...LOL.

Thanks to the web, blogs, message boards, email, and the like keeping things top secret are nearly impossible!!!! LOL

So be open, make people feel comfortable, and spread the good word of your goals, accomplishments, and the such!

That is my view!

Larry

Gore Galore
07-12-2008, 11:54 AM
Sean,

I am sorry to inform you but you cannot have a VENDOR group if it consists of more than vendors.
For example,
You are not a vendor, so you cannot be a member of the HHVA.
Pretty simple isn't it?

On another note.
We consult many buyers. I and many members consult with our buyers regularly. Consider the fact that each of us has databases of thousands and more, and we all speak to our buyers about what they want and need from us and from a tradeshow.
we don't make any decisions for anyone without getting as many objective perspectives as possible.
OBJECTIVE perspectives is the key.

drfrightner
07-12-2008, 12:52 PM
Clearly, Shane, Sean etc etc are NOT vendors and should have no input...so then who is???

Is it just people who make latex monsers or dip and dots, a guy who sells snow cone machines, or insurance, or whatever? Where do you draw the line and who do you consider a vendor?

We may see this different because as a vendor AND a buyer there is over 200 or maybe even endless amounts of people who could be considered a vendors such as someone who provides foam for you or steel for example.

Who are you allowing and not allowing I think is the question and a good one.

But I will agree Sean, Shane and all of people along those lines should have no say what so ever... the haunt industry can create its own assocation just for the attraction owners.

Larry

graystone
07-12-2008, 01:51 PM
Dang man were so close to actually seeing eye to eye on this but you messed it up by not taking buyers into account. Why? because without buyers theres no Vendors or HHVA!!! Almost Larry! Also Larry can you call little little Tyler he just informed me hes a Haunt Veteran he started acting in Haunts at age 8! Larry, Ben, Paul, Sean, do any of you guys have actors that are 8 in your haunt? Hell you have to be 13 just to get in Graystone and then you must have an adult with you. Sean here is my email shanedabbs@aol.com drop me an email with your email address you got to see this!!!!hell anyone who wants to see this crazy email I recieved from Tyler everyone will find it humorous! Shane

MMManiac
07-12-2008, 04:04 PM
Actually Tyler, no hospitals don't have to include patients on it's board, the reason they do is to find out what patients want in health care to grow bigger and better. Same with haunt vender's. Don't you think they would want honest true input from an unbiased buyer or two so you know what buyers want. This would benefit all.

Larry, you have great input. Where do you draw the lines as a vender? The haunt industry is so unique where a lot of haunt owners are venders, are buyers.

Shane, i sent you my e-mail address... Cant wait to see the e-mail....

hauntedhousenut
07-12-2008, 10:53 PM
Tyler doesn't realize how he's portraying himself, or he doesn't care.

Tyler I'll tell this much, you have made a mockery of yourself on this forum, you should really take a look at yourself, and just be yourself, you're only 20 or so, quit acting like you have a world of experience, because you don't have it yet, just because you started acting at a young age means nothing when it comes to making business decisions with your own money; like the many haunt owners that come here, you haven't spent the time, and money, or hard work that these folks have to run a business. when you have multiple years of running an attraction as an owner/vendor then maybe you'll be taken seriously, until then why not just be a sponge, and only give advice on issues that you have actual experience on over a period of time.

At first you were amusing, and I had some fun with you, but now I feel sorry for you, I really do, I actually stuck up for you on another chat forum when your name was brought up, and if you noticed, when several forum members have jumped you on different threads,(me included) there hasn't been a whole lot of forum members coming to your defense, take Shane for example, he probably jumps you most often, and in case you didn't notice, Larry who isn't a big fan of Dabbs, doesn't say anything to him when he scolds you, If that doesn't tell you anything I don't know what will?

MMManiac
07-12-2008, 10:57 PM
AMEN NUT! On a serious note, he speaks the truth Tyler.. You seem like a great kid, and I use the word Kid loosely because I'm not much older then you but even sucking up to the venders you are not making good waves in here. Ill bet money that most venders would probably go to Shane first for business then yourself due to the fact he has owned a haunt much longer and has spent lots of $$. Thats whats important in this industry. Keep it real, be yourself, form your own opinions and best of luck to ya when your haunt starts. Me and Shane and nut will be the first ones in line to see it.

Grimley
07-12-2008, 11:38 PM
Secret clubs and vendor associations sign me up. Sounds like a lot of fun. Why don't we start a buyers association so that the buyers can start to dictate terms. We can only attend two shows this year and considering there are six or seven now it kinda sucks. We will attend Houston for sure because that is where the money is and we will follow the money. The other show is up in the air. There is the new East coast show, the St. Louis show, Vegas, Hauntcon, IAPPA. This really sucks. Transworld was one big show and now it is split into 3 shows. How many will survive?

lurker
07-12-2008, 11:42 PM
I thought this was a forum for kids? Sure seems like the haunted house schoolyard to me. If we start getting rid of people for talking bigger than their breeches, we are going to empty out this schoolyard real quick.

Monster-Tronics
07-13-2008, 01:24 AM
Just wanted to say ďheyĒ back to Ben. There is no doubt in my mind opening a haunt is even more stressful then what we do, you guys have more pokers in the fire and I respect any haunt owner that can pull it all off successfully year after year.

And on that note I think Iím out of here for a while. I have a pretty tough skin and have been know to dish some crap out before but these posts have become very cruel and really alarming to me and I donít want to read this stuff anymore.

I would like to see the haunt industry grow and to become a respectful business and good entertainment for the public. Most people from outside side look at us as being weird or a bit crazy but anyone from the outside reading this kind of stuff (remember this is a public forum) will think we are all unprofessional retarded 10 year olds.

Hope everyone has a great season, and to my customers, I hope my products bring you additional success.

graystone
07-13-2008, 07:14 AM
You may not have a thick enough skin here. I am a member of a exotic animal fourm. PETA people come there all the time calling us from every thing from assholes to sobs and everything in between. ( but none of them realize that some of us spends thousands a month on these animals to give them a safe wounderful place to live) but I myself don't take it personal Why? because everyone has their opinions and everyone express those opinions in different ways. That's what makes everyone different. My God man the world is not a pretty place anymore gas prices, rising food cost , people loosing their homes, job losses !!! Were mad, hurt, feel betrayed by our goverment. I disagree with Larry lots of times am I going to get mad and leave? No !Am I right? Is he right? Who knows all the answers anymore. Take Kevin do I think what hes doing with the HHVA is good? HELL YES! Do I agree with everything and the way its being put together? HELL NO! But will I turn my back on these people just because I don't like what they are doing or what they say or how they say it? ANOTHER HELL NO!!! At the end of the day will I sit down and have dinner with them and call them my friend? Yes but I think its better to say I will sit down and have dinner with my extended family my Haunt Industry Family! Jeff its not that bad we all feel and express ourselves in different ways even you. If you leave its your choice but I feel its more to it that what people say and thinks and how they say it here. Again we all have different opinions, we all express ourselves different, we all are different from our opinions to our looks. People need the right to say,think and express themselves as they see fit. And everyone here knows Shane has a lot to say. But I would not think they hate me! Do you Larry? Kevin? Sean? Nut? even silly little baby Tyler! LMAO Jeff I say this from one family member to the other its going to be ok! Now what do you want for dinner! Ok people do you agree with my thoughts? Can I get an Amen here!! Shane and its head of the table Shane this time!

Gore Galore
07-13-2008, 07:26 AM
Well, I am sorry to say but I think I am going to have to follow suit with Jeff.
We have tried to stick with this to help people understand what is happening with the tradeshows etc.

But no matter how hard we try some people are just never going to get it because it doesn't suit their end.

Just suffice it to say.
We started our association to work to build a stable and profitable industry for everyone. We understand if our customers make a profit, then we make a profit. It has not, will not, and can NOT be any other way.

In order to build a stable industry you have to help Haunted attraction owners make a profit by helping by providing them with the tools that help them take their events over the top in every way.
This starts with the most comprehensive tradeshow you can ask for (we are obviously not organizing the tradeshow but doing our best to provide as much input and direction as possible to its development), education with the most diverse seminar series that has ever been offered (again we are not building the seminar series but doing our best to contribute to its development), the best products we can provide that are safe and built to last with good customer service, service after the sale, and with the highest of professionalism.

All with input from ALL the leaders in this industry.

We wish ALL of our customers the best season they could ever ask for.
And we look forward to seeing everyone at the Haunt show in St Louis in 2009

Signing off
Kevin Alvey aka Mr GORE!

hauntedhousenut
07-13-2008, 07:30 AM
I don't think that Jeff's reply was directed at you only,(THIS IS MY OBSERVATION, I COULD BE WRONG) it appears that there is a recurring theme with a certain forum member,(not you shane) that you have to walk on eggshells everytime he's involved with something.

Well I got news for you, wake up and smeel the coffee, life isn't pretty and in business you're not going to get roses handed to you everytime.

Get F@#King real!

graystone
07-13-2008, 08:36 AM
Nut who is it LOL am I missing something here? Well its like this. Everyone wants to trust TransWorld but they have a record of screwing with us time and time again. Yet were supposed to remain quiet just take them at their word and move on? As for as me its not about Kevin ( who I have full respect for) or Larry its about TransWorld and their lie after lie after lie. To this day I still cant see all these so called new vendors who will show up. Remember there was nothing stopping them from coming before. I honestly hope I am wrong. I will go to the show and hope when I walk in I say Damn Shane were you so ever wrong! But until that heppens all I have got to go on is a company who has a tract record of lies!!!! Someone tell me I am wrong here! I think maybe these people saying there not coming here is a way to get Larry to censor whats being said! And THATS NOT THE WAY TO HANDLE THIS! Kevin you must keep everyone posted whether or not everyone agrees you are helping spear this up and its your job. You are not in the position of just turning your back. It will come off as well weither or not they like it were going to do what we want to do and screw what everyone thinks and screw their opinions. Kevin its not that easy for you to do that it will hurt you in the long run. Just like I don't always agree or like to hear what someone has to say I have to it listen its their right. Kevin you are well respected here no one is taking it personal with you they are just not agreeing with everything thats going on. But don't risk your reputation just because you don't want to hear it. Its life buddy and to get the good you got to be willing to take the bad. Again someone tell me I am wrong here? Or tell me you agree with my thoughts!Shane

MMManiac
07-13-2008, 11:58 AM
I think i mentioned just that before in an earlier post. Kevin might be saying his personal views but its going to reflect on his company. He needs to be careful of constantly speaking his mind esp when he tell us buyers that we are wrong when it comes to this convention. Yes, Kevin you might be right, but telling me that I'm wrong isn't a good way to get my business.. We all have the right to speak out opinions...

Gore Galore
07-13-2008, 01:36 PM
Gentleman,

Not to worry.
I will most certainly do my best to post press releases and keep everyone informed as will Larry.
I just mean I am not going to play games with anyone on this board anymore.

I just think it should be obvious Larry and I don't agree on alot of things. There are things we agree on and 1 is this tradeshow. And if we can work together along with everyone who is involved and work with transworld to help bring this tradeshow to you, then we can all work together to make this all happen.

I am just not going to bicker or try to change anyone's mind on anything anymore.
I realize it is a futile exercise.

The next post you see from me will be information everyone needs to know.

mikemcgowan
07-13-2008, 02:50 PM
Tyler,
If you haven’t realized yet, Shane and his ilk are grown men that act like infants with a load of crap in their drawers, stomping their feet and throwing little tantrums. They are either utterly oblivious or ignorantly unconcerned with what unprofessional idiots they look like. Treat them like the constantly whiney infants they are and just ignore them.

Seriously…there is absolutely no point in trying to reason with them, anymore than trying to reason with a 1 yr old. No one does a better job of discrediting themselves than themselves. I still think that the only reason Larry hasn’t booted them is because of the increased drama/hits that brings, but allowing them to continually shit on their own reputations seems the best punishment for their constant negativity and drama. Especially Shane, who doesn’t even know how to use a spell checker, let alone put together a cogent, articulate argument to support his position. He is a hypocrite and a sham, a pompous, self-absorbed individual who has a delusional and overly-inflated sense of self.

Seriously Tyler, these guys are the perfect example of what NOT to do. Laugh at them for the laughable, pathetic examples they have become.

graystone
07-13-2008, 03:10 PM
Mike you must be a teacher. I will try to make this post the best possible! I feel myself Larry don't boot because he has come to realize that whether or not he agrees we all have something to say and we all say it in different ways. Just because you and your ever so I am all high and mighty and am ever so prefect in spelling and grammer attatude don't fly here. No one but you gives a rats ass how someone spells because they see the point. You see I am not a cheater no I don't use spell check because just like when you meet me what you see is what you get no more no less so no need in acting perfect like you. So do me a favor with your 6 little post you have added to this site stick them up your ass. If you want to offer me some suggestions thats fine just keep them Haunt related!! And on a side note I have way more friends in this Industry that you can count both Vendors and Haunt Owners alike! So take that along with your grammer book and stick it up your ass along with what you think of me! Larry honestly on this post I would not care that you removed it. I was forced to defend myself aginst Mikey!!! Lasty Mikey I got a few names for you like you called me but out of respect of some words I just want post them here but many contain 4 letters your smart figure it out! Shane

mikemcgowan
07-13-2008, 03:16 PM
Thanks Shane,
I'm laughing so hard right now that I have tears!!!!!!

You demonstrate once again how you do a better job of discrediting yourself more than anyone else could.

Thank you Shane! You are a constant source of amusement if one knows how to take you for what you are.

xxxooo

graystone
07-13-2008, 03:21 PM
What I did was make everyone think good for you Shane! For not letting some ****er try to down play you and make you feel stuipd. Your tactics don't work remember Mikey I can hang with the big boys. So unless you want more from me stfu! Its best to take it to a phone conversation or an email I am not hard to find! Shane

mikemcgowan
07-13-2008, 03:32 PM
Shane,

Stop! My sides hurt from laughing!

Once again, you demonstrate how delusional and self-absorbed you are!

Please stop! I can't stop laughing at you!

xxxooo w/ tongue

Haunted Illinois
07-13-2008, 03:38 PM
Tyler,
If you havenít realized yet, Shane and his ilk are grown men that act like infants with a load of crap in their drawers, stomping their feet and throwing little tantrums. They are either utterly oblivious or ignorantly unconcerned with what unprofessional idiots they look like. Treat them like the constantly whiney infants they are and just ignore them.

SeriouslyÖthere is absolutely no point in trying to reason with them, anymore than trying to reason with a 1 yr old. No one does a better job of discrediting themselves than themselves. I still think that the only reason Larry hasnít booted them is because of the increased drama/hits that brings, but allowing them to continually shit on their own reputations seems the best punishment for their constant negativity and drama. Especially Shane, who doesnít even know how to use a spell checker, let alone put together a cogent, articulate argument to support his position. He is a hypocrite and a sham, a pompous, self-absorbed individual who has a delusional and overly-inflated sense of self.

Seriously Tyler, these guys are the perfect example of what NOT to do. Laugh at them for the laughable, pathetic examples they have become.

"Shane and his ilk are grown men that act like infants with a load of crap in their drawers" ?????

Please, folks, letís keep things on an adult level here. What is this, eighth grade???

This post is a perfect example of why I have not posted on this topic. This thread has strayed from the original subject matter and has turned into nothing but people slamming one another. I don't want to be associated with this nonsense. Unless someone can post some valuable information, donít reply to this post anymore! Actually, I have a better idea.

Larry, please delete this entire thread. Imagine what the general public, or God forbid, a large sponsor would think if they were to read this trash. With the amount of slamming/bickering that's gone on here, it's no wonder that certain people have a negative impression of the Haunt Industry.

Oh, by the way... Mike, just because you posted with a larger font, that doesnít make your post any is more valuable or true than anyone elseís.

I can have a big font, too.. see? LOL.

Letís all just quit this nonsense and move on!!!

Greg Chrise
07-13-2008, 03:53 PM
Things happen on here pretty fast. There is no time for composing on word perfect and having it edited and then transering it to here.

I for one have found Shane actually gives the forum a little life. He's direct and although perhaps coming from irrelevant angles at ome times, this is truely how larger concepts are formed....By reviewing things from other perspectives. Even if they are wrong, they are honest thoughts that can be dealt with with out everyone getting so emotional?

To some degree some topics might infact be easily offensive as it is an open forum and those not owning a haunted house, not old enough to have their frontal lobes fully formed and those that think little horsey's on a card table with pumpkins are a haunted house display are able to offer an opinion.

On the other end of the spectrum a vendors group isn't rocket science. Every state that has anything from a flea market to a carnival has a member ship to keep everyone properly accredited, referrenced as a vendor with a great work ethic and to keep them informed where to bring their stuff to be timely for a smooth show. Those that don't show up and leave vacant spaces, don't pay their bills or become divas that can't place a spot a year in advance for a show to run smoothly are no longer members.

Similarly, vendors that do not have a positive appeal with customers need not send in their membership money or remain informed.

Even being a buyer that doesn't buy anything and makes what I need, very much appreciates seeing that a professional tag is being put on all of this. But, really it is all about coordinating a couple hundred people, trucks, financing and pretty much establishing what will be tolerated.

What will be tolerated as loser vendors, new one's on probation, buyers that order thousands and don't pay, how the whole thing is percieved as relevant to anything else happening on the planet. Ultimately this puts Transworld n the position of providing a service or not rather than everyone just following their desire to have another show on their resume. If the service had truely been offered at 4 star quality, none of this would require any organization.

Transworld never failed at charging 4 star money and all of these other shows have popped up because obviously people with even less resources felt they could do a lot better. Now it is sorry to say a game of re establishing a market and long term proberly serving the senoir vendors. The guy who shows up impromptu is going to have to work the back of the room.

There certainly is an overlying factor that that 8 year old will possibly 30 years later write out purchase orders for $30,000 but, really this in any other field is known to be highly unlikly and a bunch of whinney crap, a one in a trillion instance and real pro stuff happens based on real money talks.

Some time ago, I looked up a guy that has an automated puppet theater that works the state and local fair markets. I found out he was he was a long term member in good standing of this organization that places where the shows are, how to attend an event and schedual a year long hop from place to place. The ultimate goal was for everyone concerned to make money and be coordinated.

This vendor group may infact span all seven shows for some vendors and represent each event planner to get with the program. Instead of each vendor individually risking wether their attendance will be profitable or wether they can deal individually with some events sales staff over promising, it is all preplanned.

Other events might have more infomal seminars and participant competitions but, they do get blocks of hotel rooms discounted, they do make not getting the merchandise on the floor a lot less costly and as a result will most likely prosper for years to come.

graystone
07-13-2008, 04:24 PM
You are recieveing a standing ovation from me!!! Dude well put! Right on the money! I bet even ole Mikey got exicted with that one. Anyway man right on you said it better to date than anyone here and my hat goes off to you man!! Shane

Greg Chrise
07-13-2008, 04:39 PM
It also seems to me that what one vendor spent on drayage at the show, I could completely move a 56 acre scream park. That is the kind of crap to just say no to. No one is coming if that is what the deal is.

As more products that have higher technology based systems and higher ticket prices evolve, what is being done now is the foundation for wether this stuff will ever really have a market.

How 4 star an event is will command and also streamline customers showing up with check books or not.

Yes, when I was very young my father built displays for oil company trade shows from concept to construction to hauling the thing in and setting up all the media machines. This of course brought financial intrest to my family with even events like the World's Fairs and such. Many of my first air plane trips were just to tag along and see all the stuff.

So as an over view, in today's world it isn't real hard to use the Internet to search out similar offerings and trade shows and see how they are being run and insome cases attendance requires $2500 per person and even the 200 press standing outside pays money or no ticket. The press makes money from their coverage and they have to pay. When a single picture of any dysfunctional starlett or a sneek peek at an Iphone photo brings $2500, you want the right press coverage, not just some dork that wants to be in the picture taking business.

Perhaps a few press that have demonstrated that they are positive with the program can get in for free but, there are controls. It is not a wide open circus when the sale of something has shareholders getting a dividend is at risk.

If the haunt economy is based on glow sticks and tshirts, face painting supplies and celebrities mentioned 30 years ago in a credit, it will remain all some kind of circus act.

Frankly no organization or trade show presently has anywhere near the potential gross income it could have as they translate as not being neccessary by so many haunt events. No matter what former PTA deputy thinks safety manuals are important to scribe out or what secretary thinks maintaining a committe budget is of the utmost importance, there are easily 2500 haunts across the nation and all but maybe 500 are not participating. OF those 500 many are just hanging in the underwhelmed, even confused rather than excited about any of it.

It isn't just transworld, it is how the entire group can be promoted. If the potential customers get inspired somehow, they will find the money to attend and buy. This social group that supports every event are not buyers either. I've always been amazed at how transworld was 80% characters out in the shadows asking if you had a few hundred thousand to spend or not. Yeah, that's networking alright. By sheer numbers this means only 20% only care 20% about what is being offered by the vendors.

It all has the potential to be a must see spectacle but, somehow it isn't living up to that right now. Wether it is the Transworld show or not, it has not commanded the be all to end all opportunity for anyone.

Greg Chrise
07-13-2008, 05:04 PM
Also, it has been proven in the modern digital world that the jist or gist of what is being produced for content these days, a properly developed mind over looks and completely understands what has been written.

Even 20 years ago it was the mantra for Hewlett Pakard that if writting things on paper and handing it to someone was faster than composing a thesis on a subject and having it concured by committee, freaking do it.

No matter how ugly it gets, what happens on these forums is like a digital brain trust of the whole community and to come up with a little higher concept, you have to hang with things a while. A good IQ can do the editing and come up with a doable business scheme from what has been overviewed.

I might even be wrong in about 80% of what I have offered and I don't care. I put it out there and the good stuff might be adopted. If I had no input at all it might all suck yet another 2% more.

Barry
07-13-2008, 05:57 PM
You know what is funny about this thread is the fact that everybody looks at these shows as something that "just happens" like they will always be out there and will only be a topic of debate about the positives and negatives, the people that support them or don't, whether they are good for vendors or not, whether they represent the industry well or not.

Let me put a different perspective on it. The shows are a business. We are offering a product to a targeted market and you either buy it or you don't. It seems to me Transworld has done an excellent job! They have a group of vendors committed to attending which is TW's primary customer base. Their task now is to retain that customer base in 2010 and beyond. That is the real question here.

MHC has a targeted clientele as well as has been written about in other threads. It was never intended to be "the" show for everyone. We put a product out there and we hope an increasing amount of you buy it. We will continue to take suggestions as to how to improve it but, in the end, we will offer our "product" just as TW will do.

This discussion has been highly entertaining but in the end will it really affect anything? Probably not.

Oh, and to all of those that think that a thread like this puts a black eye on the industry is really overating the importance of it in the great scheme of things. (No offense intended Larry).

lurker
07-13-2008, 06:23 PM
What are you saying Barry? That this message board isnít the Athenian democracy that rules the haunt industry? Blasphemer! I bet you donít believe in Sandy Clause too! lol

stafford
07-13-2008, 09:20 PM
As I read this thread I got a bit confused, who is Transworld listening to right now?

It would seem from the thread that there is an open line of communication with the HHVA, which there should be, since the vendors are the first line of TW's customers, they buy the booths. Where is the input from the buyers? Before it's said that the vendors associtation is getting input from their customers and relaying it to TW, let's be real, vendors and buyers have somewhat of the same agenda, but not totally. Is IAHA or HHA having any input on the show? (I realize not everyone is in support of either one of these associations, but right now, it's all we got).

Which brings me to my final question, or thought, (and I am not trying to stir anything here) shouldn't the industry have one association, of vendors and owners/buyers. Maybe I missed it somewhere, but is the HHVA associated with IAHA?

I guess my point being, everything is so fragmented right now, that I hope TW is listening to everyone, not just the vendors, and I hope that at some point this industry will have a cohesive professional association that can communicate thoughts and ideas to TW, or ultimately produces it's own show. I could be mistaken but I would assume that IAAPA is one association, represented by vendors and operators. (not saying we're as big an industry, but using as an example)

Chris

Speculo
07-13-2008, 10:15 PM
I think they really were listening to everyone, and that was almost part of the problem! There were so many voices with opposing views I think they really had a tough time of it, thus the many false starts and confusions of the last few months.

It seems like they have choosen now, so we can all either get behind it and push, or stand on the side lines and see what happens.

Personally, my glass is usually half full (i.e. not half empty!) so I am more inclined to help out, especially if it helps out our vendors.

As far as orgainizations go, I don't think for example that IAHA really represents anyone, they are just folks like us with their own opinions -

I mean its not like specific IAHA Board members have a particular "group" geograpically or otherwise that they represent or consult, it is just a group of people that can be most easily defined as "people who wanted to be board members of IAHA" - they just do what they think is the proper thing to do based upon individual backgrounds and motivations. And as a Board they do what they do based on who pulls the most strings, just like any other group.

I am liking what I am seeing from the HHVA however, they are only newly formed but they really seem to be speaking for the bulk of the vendors, a pretty amazing task.

Perhaps the way they are orgainising is a template for the fledgeling HHA ...

We shall see!

Thanks!

The Ghoulish Gallery
07-13-2008, 10:39 PM
Chris,

While the International Association of Haunted Attractions (IAHA ) and the Halloween and Haunt Vendors Association (HHVA) may seem like they are associated, they are not. However, they both share many of the same goals for their respective memberships and the haunt industry in general, and they often work together to see those goals come to fruition. But no, IAHA and HHVA are two completely separate corporations. We just have a really good working relationship with each other.

Having said all that, know that both IAHA and HHVA member's interests are well represented in all that is going on with this new show. I say that because in an ironic twist of fate, I happen to serve as the trade show liaison for IAHA - and - HHVA has sort of borrowed me to help them out in representing their membership interests with Transworld as well.

In addition to all that, I also serve as one of the Directors of the Transworld 2009 HauntShow Advisory Board as does Kevin Alvey from HHVA. I mention this not to toot my own horn so much as to let everyone know that Jen from Transworld is really making a sincere effort to keep both IAHA and HHVA in the loop and involved with all the major decisions. The rest of the Advisory Board is made up of vendors from our industry.

I have to say that in the three plus month that I've been working with Transworld, they've really stepped up their game and are taking every precaution to make sure that this new show represents and benefits our entire industry. I am happy to be a part of that and am doing my very best to represent the kind of thoughts and ideas that will truly help both the HHVA and IAHA now and in the future.

I'll have more details for everyone in the near future.

Scream as one,
Tim Turner

CEO / Lead Artist, Ghoulish Gallery, Inc.
www.ghoulishgallery.com
Digital Make-up FX Instructor, Cinema Make-up School
www.cinemamakeup.com
Director, International Association of Haunted Attractions
www.iahaweb.com
Director, Halloween and Haunt Vendor Association
www.halloweenandhauntvendor.com
Director, Transworld 2009 HauntShow Advisory Committee
www.hauntshow.com

drfrightner
07-14-2008, 01:24 AM
Several things...

1) My question and the same question of many others is WHO IS A VENDOR was NEVER answered. It is a legit question. If you are going to have an association for anything, or anyone, you must outline that. I would still like to hear that question answered. This question and point was just skipped right over. I do not feel anything is an association or an industry unless it is inclusive to all vendors. So outline for us what is your definition of a vendor.

2) Someone asked about haunt owners being vendors where do you draw the line... for one I think many haunt vendors started out as haunt owners and many who didn't eventually opened a haunt and maybe later walked away. I know Distortions, Creative Visions just to name a few started off as a vendor, but later opened a haunt only to go back to vending. I myself and many other vendors started of as haunt owners then got into vending...and I'm not a lone on that one at all... that list would include John Denley just as one example.

3) As far as I'm concerned I personally do not reconize anything in our industry as being a true association. IAHA is a total a dictatorship, which benefits no one but the people who manage it, it is directed mostly by people who do not own haunts and has NEVER done ONE thing to impact any haunt owners business, at least in my opinion. This new vendor association, as of right now I do not know enough about it to truely make an opinion, I do not know if they are just a yahoo club or something that is trying to create bylaws, with dues, blah, blah. We do not know who can or can't join, if they will hold elections, we know nothing.

Time will tell...

In this industry, you can't have a REAL association because a handful of people attempt to discredit others into thinking this guy or that guy is out to hurt everyone, or dont' trust him, or don't trust her, or what is in it for me syndrome.

The bottom line is every great thing that has ever been accomplished for the entire industry has been produced by inviduals, private business, or select groups of people. ALL of the times this industry needed leadership from an association that leadership never stepped forward.

When all the haunt owners were being thrown out of TW, it was a select few who stepped up to stop that from happening, not the industry as a whole, not an association. To get our industry national publicity, it was private business owners who stepped up to make that happen, again private business owners are now producing television shows, and even our tradeshow is produced by a private business.

Association typically produce the tradeshows, magazines, education, government relations, national publicity, and leadership when it is needed most... we have NOTHING to handle this for us.

So private business owners like Transworld step up and produce a tradeshow, or other private business owners produce tradeshows like MHC, Hauntcon, NOT an association. Private business owners produce the education, the website, the magazines, and the national PR, eveything again produced by indivuals in most cases for personal gain.

When everything in this industry is UP FOR GRABS you will have a lot of different people fighting for it hence all the infighting.

That is our industry... but now that we have this haunt only show maybe some of that can change.

But I personally will NEVER support IAHA as an example, myself as a haunt OWNER do not want a board of people who do NOT own haunts running an association for a 500 million dollar industry.

Just like in this case where vendors saw an opportunity to make something happen, create a benefit for themselves and their customers, they came together to make that happen... one of hopefully many firsts in this industry.

So why stop there?

Instead of being a Shane supporter, or a Larry supporter, or a Leonard supporter, MHC, Hauntcon or whatever else you are a supporter of ... why not be an industry ONLY supporter.

HAUNT OWNERS needs one unified voice, led by a leadership group made up of haunted house owners and operators ONLY! When you get ONLY haunt owners and operators leading the charge, more will get accomplished because you find more common goals in which to lead by!

We have come full circle on many important things such as a haunt only show, national publicity, television shows, and so much more...

Vendors finally all working together, everything finally seems to be going in the RIGHT direction...now we just need haunt OWNERS to get on the same page and we'll finally really come FULL CIRCLE!

Larry

graystone
07-14-2008, 05:54 AM
After this post I have no choice but to go out and shoot myself. For once I have to agree with Larry ( this is the beginning to the end for Shane as we know it) on this if my eyes are not playing tricks on me it looks that Larry said what I have been preaching! The Vendors needs to work more with the Buyers on this or if you will the Buyers needs to work more with the Vendors on this. There needs to be more buyers presents here. We pay the bills!!! Vendors make the product we buy from the Vendors thus keeping them in business ( you see it takes two sides to make that happen building and buying). Its like sex its much more fulfilling and productive to have two than one! Two presents can do so much more than one! Do you get my point here? Do you hear what I am saying! ( I know Jim is going to jump on this one) I know some say that buyers have had a say but I talk to many and no one I know has been talked to and no one they know has been talked to and so on. I had forgot about Tim being part of this and I know with him and Kevin this will work they are great leaders with a honest hard working track record. But PLEASE SHOW US SOME BUYERS IMPUT! We need this to feel secure with TransWorld! I myself have droped easily over 150.000 on new products in the last two years ( and everyone knows I don't brag but there is a point coming) so us guys whos dropping major bucks needs to have a say! Look at Paul at Atrox I know they are in this spending circle as well so is Larry, Ben and others I know. I think we would play a positive role here! Look at Sean hes leveal headed and sees the future he would be another one to help us to become a whole or as Larry stated full circle. There are other buyers out there who has a lot to offer these are just suggestions and by no means am I leaving anyone out! Tim,Kevin guys please we need more buyers input! Shane and its concerned Shane this time.

Speculo
07-14-2008, 07:41 AM
Re: creating a True Haunted House Association

How About -


Anyone can be an Associate Member.

To vote or be on the board (a senior member) you must


1) Have been in Business 5+ years
2) Have a Corporate Entity (S Corp LLc, etc.)
3) Have Liability Insurance
4) Actually own, or be one of the owners of the event.
5) In some cases a manager could be appointed to represent the event if sponsored by the owners ONLY.
6) Also when it comes to voting or being on a board only ONE vote per Haunt entity


Have a small un-even board say 7 tops, maybe with a slot for a charity and a theme park.

Something like this could actually represent actual Haunted attractions...everyone on it would really be in the drivers seat, and would understand the importance of critical decisions being made.

This is a group that would really mirror the HHVA - real owners of businesses concerned for the success of the industry, elected by their peers to do so.

A small group with a mandate....

Representing actual buyers...

Who make a living doing this...

Who know what they are doing...

Who are elected by their PEERS...


Of course that still doesn't mean that some evil/clueless folks couldn't get a hold of it and crash it into the ground (It happens all the time, look at politics ANYWHERE)

But at least it would be a real association -

Thanks!

Nightgore
07-14-2008, 08:52 AM
Ben,

I am just going to say that I totally agree with your post and I dream of a day when an association like that could happen! -Tyler

UndeadProd
07-14-2008, 09:28 AM
Ok, before anyone starts another flame war ... let's all just take a few relaxing breaths ...

HM2htYXlOwk

and continue to talk about this topic in a rational manner without resorting to name-calling or dramas ... please?

Can we try and keep this topic free of conspiracy theories and multiple exclamation points for at least a little while?

In my personal opinion, I think that a vendor association is great idea - and don't understand the controversy behind it. It could be a rough year for everyone involved in this business - so working together and sharing information and resources is not only beneficial, it could be vital for the survival and growth of the industry.

Why aren't buyers involved? Um... because it's a vendors' association? From what I can tell, it's an opportunity for vendors to discuss issues among themselves ... just as Transworld allows haunters to discuss our business without customers being in the same room.

As for the haunters association(s) - that's always going to be a tricky thing. Anyone who serves as president or board member is likely still heavily involved with his or her own haunt, so potential conflicts of interest will always exist. And how do you find time to serve 2 masters (an association and your own haunt) during the months of September and October? Especially when you consider that the vast majority of people in this business have other jobs and responsibilities as it is?

MDKing
07-14-2008, 09:32 AM
I agree with Ben. The 5+ years a must, the corporate entity, insurance, actual owner, it's all exactly what we need......

Good post Ben,
Allan

MMManiac
07-14-2008, 10:09 AM
Ben Ben Ben... Amem brother! You nailed it on the head!

I'm going to start a NEW thread regarding forming a TRUE Haunt Owners Association and hopefully something positive will come out of it.

drfrightner
07-14-2008, 02:10 PM
Yes I agree with Ben as well. I have always said and will always say ANYONE should be allowed to join, everyone starts somewhere, but ...

Do we want another IAHA, where over half of all the board members do not own haunts, or for that matter do not even offer services or products to our industry? If you a professional haunted house owner do you want people not in the industry to pretend to know your business, what is best for you, or this industry? I don't!

I will not join that thing... however HHA will become that real association, and I will donate all of my idea's, services, support and assets to a group that will truly represent our industry in a non-political, personal agenda driven direction.

Let the industry vote for who they want as President, or who should guide the industry and the board...

We need an association so our industry owners and operators are not voice less when it comes to issues like tradeshows, or national public relations and things of this sort.

Larry

Slain
07-14-2008, 02:47 PM
How about we commit to having a buyers booth at the next show. I know this sounds crazy but in the world of selling and to get the best price vendors could submit a price off of there catalog for each level of buyer..
Say you going to spend X number of dollars from a certain vendor... Then the vendor could submit prices based on the level of spending (The Wal-mart factor). No more of this well I'll give you 5% or you 10%..Oh you a member of @$^%&*( group you get 15%
The bottom line price would be what the buyer would receive based on the amount of dollars his company or haunt is willing to purchase..
Make sense?

drfrightner
07-15-2008, 12:05 PM
I think the prices that vendors sell at in this industry are already pretty cheap, this industry demands affordable pricing. One of the reasons some stuff doesn't last as long as you'd like because this industry demands affordable equipment.

I doubt you could get the prices any cheaper. As we all know you can get discounts by asking, and most vendors will discount stuff 5 to 10% especially when you are buying a lot of stuff but as a whole I doubt you could get much more just because you started a buyers group.

Larry

graystone
07-15-2008, 01:58 PM
I think your own to something here! Sounds like something we should look at for sure and talk with vendors. Sounds like a plan!!! Shane

Barry
07-17-2008, 07:44 PM
Here is an update:

http://www.tradeshowweek.com/article/CA6578788.html?industryid=47364

Barry
07-17-2008, 07:56 PM
Here is another article I just found that is of interest:

Rosemont: Two new hotels are set to open later this month

Construction is on schedule for Rosemont's entertainment district, which surrounds the 4,000-seat Rosemont Theatre and is adjacent to the Donald E. Stephens Convention Center. The district offers an array of dining, lodging and entertainment options, including a brand-new Muvico 18-theater complex, to tradeshow attendees at the facility located near Chicago's O'Hare Intl. Airport.

Two trendy hotels also are part of the new digs at Rosemont.

Construction on the aloft Chicago O'Hare, a W Hotel, is near completion in the entertainment district. The 251-room hotel is a high-design, fashion-forward brand, according to Director of Sales Violet Banach. The property, which opens July 17, will be different than any other in the O'Hare market, Banach said, with wireless service throughout and large flat-panel, high-definition televisions in the rooms, positioned for optimal viewing and listening. Laptop service is instant plug-in and direct.

Construction on the Intercontinental Chicago O'Hare is ahead of schedule, according to the property's general manager, David Hall. He said the project is generating a high level of interest, especially from meeting planners, because of the size of the hotel and the fact that it is a luxury property. With 556 guest rooms, 70 suites and 65,000 sq. ft. of meeting space, the Intercontinental will easily accommodate all kinds of groups. The hotel will take individual bookings beginning Oct. 4.

One of the hotel's special attractions will be its art collection, on display in both guest rooms and public areas. And the hotel will feature three adjacent restaurants: McCormick and Schmick's, the Capital Grille and the Osteria di Tramonto, named for Rick Tramonto, a noted Chicago chef and restaurateur. In addition, a T.G. I. Friday's restaurant just opened in the Rosemont district.

graystone
07-17-2008, 08:00 PM
They add all this and the fools at TransWorld move their show to St. Louis well I hope everyone sees that Rosemont is moving in a good direction! But with that if you click on the link Barry posted sounds like St. Louis might just be a 2009 thing! Hopefully they will keep moving the show around!!!Shane

drfrightner
07-18-2008, 03:06 AM
Nice article...

I for one am not in favor of moving the show all around like a travelling circus. Although maybe the industry,specifically the VENDORS need to decide if St Louis is what is best for them, and if so they should keep it here.

It really boils down to money... $1900 for a booth in Vegas or $1200 in St. Louis. $200 hotels in Vegas or Chicago or $120 in St. Louis... the list goes on.

It really simply boils down to money, save money, while increasing revenue everyone is happy. If St. Louis isn't the answer then as an industry you'll need to look around and find a better city that can still offer the drivability, affordable cots, etc etc

Time will tell!

Larry

graystone
07-18-2008, 05:58 AM
I can see where your aginst TransWorld moving the show around and I agree it does boil down to money. Money that Larry will loose if this show don't stay in St. Louis. Whats wrong with it moving around? I attend 3 trade shows with my company and all of them move around. Again 08 was Vegas thats for the people in the West, 09 is St. Louis this is for the people up north. Now I suggest 10 be in Orlando which is for the people in the South. Thenfor the 11 show lets look to Philadelphia for the people in the East or vice versa. Moving it around is good for everyone! Larry just be happy that your going to get to show off your haunt is 09 no need to be greedy. Tyler I would ask you to keep your mouth shut on this one. Let Larry comment to me as I am addressing his post. Shane and thate keep it moving Shane this time.

drfrightner
07-18-2008, 12:51 PM
No Shane you are wrong...

First off I didn't say I'm not in favor of them moving the show around outside of St. Louis, I said I'm NOT IN FAVOR OF THEM MOVING THE SHOW around period!

Im saying at some point you will need to settle on one city for a few years at time. Hauntcon doesn't draw the buyers and it travels all over the place. You have to re-educate people year after year that is no good.

When IAAPA goes to Orlando they announce 'we're in Orlando for the next three years, or Atlanta for the next two or whatever'.

We don't want a traveling circus do we? Do we want a tradeshow or a traveling cirucs? I'm not saying St. Louis is the end all be all...I think it might be though and if it is it should stay, if not find a better city but don't move around year to year all over the place.

That would make me dizzy.

Larry

hauntedhousenut
07-18-2008, 01:12 PM
Could you please wait until you experience transworld in St Louis, before making these statements, your failure may cause me to have you locked in a yard with tyler, where he can teach what a great actor he is, and you can teach him how to tame cats!

Really folks, I hope this St. Louis location gives everyone what they wanted.

graystone
07-18-2008, 02:48 PM
Your slipping over to the dark side I can see the signs! Shane

MMManiac
07-18-2008, 02:59 PM
I for one will be calling every TW rep I can find a # for and strongly suggest TW "10" be in Orlando!

hauntedhousenut
07-18-2008, 03:17 PM
I'm not slipping to any side, I've always been on the side of common sense, take your personal feelings out of the picture, and look at it from a business perspective, If you and your crew save $$$ then you win, If you don't then by all means bitch, otherwise I promise I will stick to my guns and lock you and tyler in a yard for a day, if you don't let this play out!

graystone
07-18-2008, 05:30 PM
LMAO!!!!! The Gig is up were heading to Orlando in 10!!!! Me, Sean, Paul, David, Mike, and a few others will be spear heading this campain! Now Nut get your ass on board and help us or I will have no choice but to pronounce you and Larry Husband and Man!!!! ROTFLMAO! Shane

stafford
07-18-2008, 09:54 PM
Catchin up here, responding on some posts/points, sorry if it seems erratic.

Ben,

Well stated, agreed for sure.

Tim,

I appreciate the info, however, just to be clear, TW started and advisory board, and only included vendors? No haunt owners? That doesn’t seem like the best idea. As I stated earlier, I know the vendors are their first line of customers, but in order to have a successful show, I would think you would want input from the buyers/attendees. I know, I know, the vendors are listening and relaying information…still a better idea to get some owners in the mix I think.

Larry,

Agreed that the owners need to get together as well, as I have said before, with the vendors as well, one association. Until that happens, things look like they will stay fragmented and scattered. Seems like because of “baggage” or whatever you want to call it. Some will not support IAHA, some will not support HHA...shouldn’t we all just support whichever of these (or a new association) that makes the most headway in bringing the industry together vendors and owners/buyers and achieving unified goals? Regardless of the past?

Ben, again,

Looks like you’ve laid out a good start/foundation for a new association. Can this be implemented into either of the current associations? Or are you suggesting this as the groundwork for a “new” association? Regardless, a great start.

Scott,

Great point, hard to pay attention to an association during that time of the year, heck, most of the year. It’s gonna take some committed individuals if it’s gonna happen.

So…bottom line, how’s it going to happen, everyone’s talking about it, how does it get implemented?

Chris

stafford
07-18-2008, 10:07 PM
Overlooked a page. So the show is out of Rosemont, and now they're sprucing up the place, sheesh, go figure!

Chris

Speculo
07-19-2008, 07:18 AM
Yes now is not the time for it...we gotta finish our shows! I think a deadline for something solid is St. Louis!

Thanks!

Gore Galore
07-19-2008, 07:55 AM
Chris,

I think you are right about getting some buyers in on the advisory board.
Mark of Creative Visions, Tim Turner, and I have talked about that several times, and suggested it to Transworld. The advisory board has not been announced yet, but I know they may have 2 or 3 buyers being considered for the board.
Ben could very well be one.

If a buyers group is started and if it takes the formula from HHVA, such as Ben has suggested, then I am sure we will be able to work together to achieve whatever goals we work towards.

graystone
07-19-2008, 08:27 AM
Just thinking out loud 10,000 buyers 2 or 3 to speak for them. How about letting the buyers in the indusrty just all vote? Wait that would not work because the buyers might actually have something to say. Nothing aginst Ben but hell everyone knows Ben and friendships are not apart of a board. Again nothing aginst you Ben. So the circle continues. Shane

drfrightner
07-19-2008, 12:16 PM
I agree with Ben the deadline for starting a new haunt owner association should be St. Louis. It can be worked on starting in November.

I will donate everything from my time, resources, money, support, and some assets to make this happen.

We should be able to get this done in November/December and make the big splash at the convention.

I'm on board to support this, for all buyers.

Larry

MMManiac
07-19-2008, 12:54 PM
awww Larry your turning soft on us! I can't wait to see this all happen in November/December.... Watch out Haunt industry the Haunt owner association is coming at ya!

graystone
07-20-2008, 07:53 AM
This scares me Larry has enough going on magazine, haunts, puttputt golf, all around vendor, HHA president, vice president, board member, web site owner, judge, jury, wealth, husband, hunter, golfer, football player, model , writer, producer, infomercial star, super hero, critic, porn star, amusment park owner, doctor, dentist, foot doctor, tv repair man, self proclaimed celebrity, cook, engineer, slave owner, director, I mean he has seen all and done all. He knows all! We need people in this that don't have so much going on. This does not need to be an association it needs to be a buyers group. The Haunt Buyers Group! It needs to be made up of haunt buyers/owners big and small. The goal should be all for one and one for all. It should be whats best for us buyers while keeping whats best for vendors in mind. It needs to be a 50/50 meeting of the minds. A group where we work closely with vendors with the goal of both the buyer and vendor feeling good about a transaction. It should not be about what I can do for myself and sure as hell does not need to be for any ones personal gain. If I ever find out that has happened I will start a campain and see that they are hung at TransWorld and any other haunt related event. Sean me, you, Paul, Ben, and others has been vocal here and done alot of talking! I will not sit back and see this go in the direction of the Buddy system here. Its wrong , not rite and can not go in that direction. My company recieves 70% of its income during Oct, Nov, and Dec and I am not talking about or counting my haunt. After Christmas I will fly anywhere and meet with anyone! you, Ben whomever it takes to make this Buyers Group something for us all!!!!!!!!!! Everyone reading this I plead with you as Haunt owners and all around lover of the Industry! We must work together on this and not turn it over to any one person. Were a group here a group of buyers!!!!!!! Guys do you see this as I do? Shane and its concerned Shane this time!

shawnc
07-20-2008, 09:05 AM
A buyer's group is a terrible idea, since no one in the haunt industry/field can seem to agree on anything.

Shane, if it were formed (HA!), the idea should be to do what's best for buyers. If it's going to be a joint effort between buyers and vendors what's the point? You might as well just have a couple of websites where everyone just shares ideas and concerns, like there is now. Making it official won't accomplish anything.

And who appointed you president, judge, jury and executioner to hang those who don't do as you like at Transworld? Maybe everyone doesn't agree with your interpretation of the organization. And if they do, it would have to be voted on. If you don't agree with the majority, does that mean that you are going to raise a big stink again and still try to hang someone?

graystone
07-20-2008, 10:44 AM
I said to work with the vendors. You sure as hell cant work aginst them! Then what would be that point of that? No one appointed me for anything and I don't want to be appointed to anything. But I do want to see it done rite. Look if you want to be over it by all means go for it! I sure don't but, just do it like it should be. But Shawn if your haunt is not open and running for the 2009 season or if you have not spent big bucks this year I cant see where you could really say anything because you don't or wont see the effects of thoes who has spent a ton. So you really cant have a say. This would go for anyone. Shane

drfrightner
07-20-2008, 11:42 AM
I didn't say a 'buyers group' we said an association for the owners.

Secondly, I never said I was going to run it because I would not, the industry would and the industry includes you Shane! LOL

Larry

Greg Chrise
07-20-2008, 08:36 PM
I'm seeing it now...For every prop you buy you get some orange and black stamps that you put in a little book. When you fill in the book you can look in the catalog and get a plastic patio furniture set!

shawnc
07-20-2008, 10:18 PM
Shane,
I never said I haven't continued buying stuff.
Shawn

graystone
07-21-2008, 06:12 AM
I respect you always have always will. I did not mean you in general. I ment if someone don't have a haunt open or buy a certain amount then they really don't need to have a say. Now again people don't think you can spend 100 bucks on ebay or a few sites on the net and say I am a buyer. Shane

MMManiac
07-21-2008, 08:21 AM
Trust me people is we ALL jump on the ban wagon and team up on this buyers group, the venders will have NO choice but to listen to us if they want to stay in business. Those who say it wont work because people disagree too much. Who is going to diagree with low prices with quality work? I know Larry and some others say, "how can it get any lower and still have good quality?" Trust me as a vender they will find a way!