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View Full Version : The Pickel in Legal Trouble???



kpolley
08-26-2008, 01:10 AM
http://www.bnd.com/news/nation/story/443170.html

Hey, anybody know anything about this? It has to be the Leonard we all know and...uh...love, right? I just caught this in the local paper.

The Ghoulish Gallery
08-26-2008, 03:10 AM
Yes, it is the same Leonard Pickel. The Lizzie Borden Museum is one of his recent business ventures. Having just successfully defended myself in a major copyright lawsuit, I would honestly be very suprised if the Lizzie Borden Bed and Breakfast / Museum has a foot to stand on in their claim. From my understanding the two businesses are nothing alike. The Borden home is being called a "museum" but it is really just a historic bed and breakfast with a small gift shop. Leonard's museum is more of a "spooky" museum about the murders with a gift shop. A Lizzie Borden themed bed and breakfast business is going to have a really difficult time proving that a Lizzie Borden themed museum and gift shop some 80 miles away is going to hurt their business and I doubt they will be able to prove loss of income, especially since Leonard's museum just opened. I'm sure the guy is just pissed off because Leonard had the smarts to open his Borden museum in the city of Salem which is a major tourist attraction in an of itself. FYI: Lizzie Borden is a public domain name. By the way, also checked the trademark registration office and unless I did something wrong in my search it would seem that no one has a registered trademark on the term "Lizzie Borden Museum."

Tim Turner, Head Honcho / Lead Artist
Ghoulish Gallery, Inc.
www.ghoulishgallery.com

The Ghoulish Gallery
08-26-2008, 03:20 AM
Correction. I just found this:

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=dapvue.3.1

...which would suggest that the owner of the Lizzie Borden Bed and Breakfast place does have a work mark on the phrase "Lizzie Borden Museum". However, the word mark application suggests that "Lizzie Borden" is public domain (because the person so named is deceased) and that the word mark for "museum" is only word marked when used in the phrase "Lizzie Borden Museum." That in mind, all Leonard has to do is call his place "The Lizzie Borden Murder Museum" and this other guy won't have a leg to stand on.

Tim again

The Ghoulish Gallery
08-26-2008, 03:29 AM
Okay, did a little sleuthing and discovered Leonard's venture is called "The True Story of Lizzie Borden" and is an interactive museum that will help guests seperate the fact from fiction in the Lizzie Borden Murder case. Since Leonard's not even using the word "museum" in his business name I don't see any cause of action that justifies this lawsuit.

Tim

hauntedhousenut
08-26-2008, 04:31 AM
If Larry will post on this topic, being how close that he is to Leonard! ><

graystone
08-26-2008, 06:46 AM
I think( although I don't know )that Larry put Kip up to bring this up. I know Kip has become Larrys right hand man. Now Larry can get him to do this that way Larry can say he had nothing to do with it. Very smart of Larry I might add. Kip becareful Leonard might be a customer with your company sometime. Larry I might add CreepWorld is looking good.

Tim Thanks for shedding some light on whats going on with this. Hell everyone is so sue happy these days.Shane and its simply Shane this time.

kpolley
08-26-2008, 07:36 AM
Tim,

You should be a CSI. That's solid information. It really does sound like Leonard has a strong case here. Honestly, it also seems like Leornard has a good concept for an attraction. Thanks for all of that.

Shane,

I swear you'd find a reason to create controversy no matter what the topic. Do you believe that the sky is blue in a desperate attempt by the democratic party to subconciously urge people to vote Obama? I don't get marching orders from anyone. I, for one, am really tiring of this. You need to let it go already. The Shane v. Larry battle has passed it's useful life and like a dog that's on in years it needs to be tied to a tree and shot. Enough already.

As for The Pickel...I never sought out a bad realtionship with him. He, however, found out that I worked with Larry and has shunned me ever since. I don't like him because he's a jerk to me based on who I do business with. I have, on more than one occasion, tried to speak to him and he always ignores me. The only time he feels chatty is when he wants me to go to Hauntcon which, by the way, I'll never do again. My company has never taken a bigger financial loss than we did in Denver.

hauntedhousenut
08-26-2008, 02:38 PM
Tim,

You should be a CSI. That's solid information. It really does sound like Leonard has a strong case here. Honestly, it also seems like Leornard has a good concept for an attraction. Thanks for all of that.

Shane,

I swear you'd find a reason to create controversy no matter what the topic. Do you believe that the sky is blue in a desperate attempt by the democratic party to subconciously urge people to vote Obama? I don't get marching orders from anyone. I, for one, am really tiring of this. You need to let it go already. The Shane v. Larry battle has passed it's useful life and like a dog that's on in years it needs to be tied to a tree and shot. Enough already.

As for The Pickel...I never sought out a bad realtionship with him. He, however, found out that I worked with Larry and has shunned me ever since. I don't like him because he's a jerk to me based on who I do business with. I have, on more than one occasion, tried to speak to him and he always ignores me. The only time he feels chatty is when he wants me to go to Hauntcon which, by the way, I'll never do again. My company has never taken a bigger financial loss than we did in Denver.

Kip, Aren't you the pot calling the kettle black?
You started this thread to create controversy, It's obvious you're hoping for a Pickel defeat, based on your aforementioned comments about the man.

And as far as Shane saying that Larry put you up to that, who knows if he did or didn't, I don't blame you if he did, after all he is the one giving you work, not the Pickelator!

drfrightner
08-26-2008, 10:39 PM
Shane,

I haven't been on the site, didn't see that and don't wish any ill will on Leonard. In fact if you want my opinion...

Lizzy Borden is PUBLIC DOMAIN, and NO ONE should be allowed to trademark it and if Leonard has a good attorney I think he'll be just fine. He can just change it to Lizzy Borden Haunted Museum or whatever...

I would side with Leonard on this issue 110%.

Larry

kpolley
08-27-2008, 07:33 AM
Nut,

yeah, not so much. If you read before you spoke you would see that I not only said that, after I got the facts, I thought Leonard had a good case here I also said I thought the attraction was a good concept. If I had read something about David Fachman I would have posted it to see if anyone had any information. You and Shane just love to stir the pot.

drfrightner
08-27-2008, 01:31 PM
Actually I'm not sure if a Lizzy Borden attraction is good for Salem or not, especially considering he's not going to have any real artifacts or whatever. It didn't happen in Salem and really has nothing to do with the town outside of the fact that Salem is known for Halloween. Lizzy Borden is known for MURDER, and I really hate the fact that murder, death, and things like this get mixed in with Halloween. It is unfair.

Good thing we've had this POSITIVE PR program to unspin some of this death and murders connection with Halloween or haunted houses.

With that being said, no matter what I would side with Leonard 110% unless he's calling his attraction the same as someone elses, and in that case he should just change the name. Lizzy Borden is a PUBLIC figure in the PUBLIC domain, and Leonard or anyone else can do whatever they want.

It really is no different than 10 to 20 different witch attractions in Salem.

As for Shanes post being erased. His original post slamming myself and Kip was left, his followup was nothing but more negative crap from him and has no purpose other than to change this thread into another one of his drama filled bar room brawls. So it was erased.

Actually let me say this... this is an important thread because of the issue at hand, and an important lesson for all based on its outcome. Why turn it into a soap?

If Leonard wants my help on this issue I'm happy to offer it!

Larry

kpolley
08-27-2008, 02:18 PM
Okay...just so we're all clear...this is my original post with nothing added or taken away:


http://www.bnd.com/news/nation/story/443170.html

Hey, anybody know anything about this? It has to be the Leonard we all know and...uh...love, right? I just caught this in the local paper.


How is that posting without all the facts? I was asking for facts. Do you even read these posts before you comment on them?

drfrightner
08-27-2008, 03:35 PM
I ONCE AGAIN AGREE WITH LEONARD ... those other people shouldn't have a case or a leg to stand on. If Leonard needs my help as a consultant or anything if he truly gets sued I'd be glad to help.

Lizzy Borden is a figure in the PUBLIC DOMAIN just like Peter Pan for that matter. I can open a Peter Pan attraction if I want and Disney can't do a thing, I just can't use their likeness they created of Peter Pan.

YO LEONARD if you need anything from me you let me know!

Those people don't have a leg to stand on! Take your AXE and give them 50 whacks... LOL

Larry

Nightgore
08-27-2008, 03:38 PM
Thank you! -Tyler

Jim Warfield
08-27-2008, 03:46 PM
Halloween celebrating the DEAD!
Many people die from being murdererd and seem to become ghostly, haunting...
So if death and murder could be removed from Halloween....."Charlie Brown and the Great Pumpkin?...and ...? Monster creations created by authors like Dracula, Frankenstein..?..but there is that death and murder-thing again as personified by the actions of those characters.
My house show does not use any gorey props, nor Hollywood movie critters, but guess what? It is a house that has a long haunted history, actually haunted.....don't get me wrong, I do scare alot of people that come here but I really like them to laugh right after they scream so my scares usually make them laugh, or at least help them to laugh because the scarey thing was so simple-minded and stupid.
It is not always easy to make scares that scare then create laughter.
I have never thought that most people really enjoy being terrified and then enjoy remaining that way for any period of time.
I am not advising anyone that they should attempt to copy what I do because I only do the things I do because they work for me, they might not work for you.

damon carson
08-27-2008, 06:19 PM
I read about this on Haunted Attraction just the other day! Dont you just hate it when you get yourself in a pickle!
Damon

hauntedmemories
09-18-2008, 05:14 PM
I can't believe how many people are ready and willing to opine on things when they don't even have the basic facts.

Here is the case. Read it for yourselves and then you can truly decide whether or not it appears to have a legal basis.

http://www.geocities.com/buyitgoddamit/borden_pickel_lawsuit.pdf

As far as taking legal advice from Tim Turner goes - DON'T. First of all, he did not win his case - he lost his ENTIRE Federal counterclaim against me!! I, on the other hand, won two of the claims I sued him for - FALSE ADVERTISING and UNFAIR BUSINESS PRACTICES.

It was also proven that "Haunted Memories" is the original company to create a line of spooky lenticular changing portraits based on antique photographs. (Even Leonard Pickel and Larry Kirchner agreed on that point!)

Regarding Turner's "successfully" defending against my copyright claim, that is not over yet, as I filed an appeal of that ruling and it's going to the 9th circuit court for review. I believe that the judge erred in her ruling on that matter and I feel that Mr. Turner is NOT entitled to the partial refund of his legal fees that he was granted. (He spent over $266,000.00 and was granted a partial refund of $66,000.00).

That's it for now.

graystone
09-19-2008, 06:01 AM
Tim we need a responce from you. We need to hear your side! We need this and we need it now. This is some serious words that Haunted Memories (aka sounds like a nut to me) has made and we all know theres two sides to every story so please respond. Personally I like Tim and think this Haunted Memories dude is full of chit! Shane and its I hope this gets good Shane this time.

Speculo
09-19-2008, 06:25 AM
We have been down this road before. Lets focus on getting our Haunts open and rocking. This site is beginning I am sure, to be veiwed and researched not only by our guests but by the media.

Lets show this industry in a positive light and sell some tickets, time enough for fun and games in November, eh?

Thanks!

Jim Warfield
09-19-2008, 08:08 AM
Don't you have some media "imbedded"?
Like surgically under Frank N Stein's skin?
Or are those tracking devices? Birth control devices?