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Karl Fields
09-24-2008, 01:03 AM
It is simply amazing this kind of crap from Scareparts is still going on.
Didn't Larry Kirchner say everything was all cleared up?
I have never bought from this company and obviously never will. Below is a copy of my good friend Kathryn's email. Please send it on to any otther Halloween groups you belong to. We don't need this type of vendor around!
Karl


I would strongly encourage the entire haunt community to cease doing business with Keith Korner.
As the owner of a pro haunt I paid several thousand dollars to Keith just after Midwest Haunters '07 (Jul) for 2 props that he said he had on hand and would be delivered immediately for the '07 season. *This was also the same month I was diagnosed with terminal breast cancer and some nights literally drug myself from chemo to the haunt till 7am to try to eek out an income-and which Keith was well aware* I received 1 of the 2 props ($320.00 worth) after opening for the season-no details or apologies on where the main prop was. As the prop was key in my final scene-I was not happy.
After months of repeated emails, phone calls, text messages AND a face to face discussion at midwest haunters '08 Keith suggested that even though he could still deliver the dragon prop to me-his new vacuum form wall panels might better suit my needs (less detail work to do since the cancer is physically taking its' toll) and he GUARANTEED I could get them "way before I needed them". Again-after many messages and queries as to status (opening set for 9/26) I was told that the wall panels had been shipped-I could expect delivery on 9/18 (8 days before advertised opening!) and that he was in his car and didn't have a tracking number for me.
I have called repeatedly-I have text messaged-I have emailed. No answer-no return calls-no walls-no refund.
In a strongly worded email sent late saturday afternoon I told Keith point blank that my grace had run out and I had no more patience or inclination to be pleasant about this. His thievery would be exposed on every forum I could post on-and i would not hesitate to sue for damages. I have made the decision not to open Lafitte's Landing this year-and Keith has direct responsibility in this.

Bottom line-Keith has/is screwing a terminally ill fellow pro haunter for several thousand dollars and has had over one year to make good on his promises but has not. I don't want pity. This is a business and I expect business people to behave in an ethical and professional manner-neither of which I have experienced with Keith Korner. And he's supposed to be part of some vendor's alliance? Sounds like we may need a buyer's alliance.
I am darn tired of the sleazy manner some haunters are behaving-and I'm through keeping my mouth closed and hoping. Please stop doing business with thieves folks.


Kathryn DeSautell
Lafitte's Landing Haunted House

graystone
09-24-2008, 06:25 AM
My heart goes out to you. I too know what this feels like and have preached from here to high heaven this MUST STOP!!!!!! This goes for any vendor! My opponent Larry tries to shut me up everytime I stand up for the buyer and voice my opinion on a Vendor that has done wrong. If and when I am booted from this site it will be for this very reason bottom line!!

I have listed many good vendors and I have good relationships with all of them and again my hats off to them! Now back to this issue. Its wrong, wrong, wrong and in some situations the person would have already been put in prison.

I am glad to see that someone else has steped foreward again. This shows that this person has not changed and never will. Just a week or so back Todd (MrNightmarz) was saying he too has not been taken care of. I am sure there are others.

We will hear from Larry that he is 110% sure that this Vendor has taken care of all his past problems and is working and getting product out bla, bla, bla. We will hear the same ole excuse and he will tell you to call him, email him, text him, take him out to dinner, put him up in the Trump hotel and discuss it, contact Larry himself, call Obama, Bush, McCain, he will tell you everything here on his site to protect the bad vendor!!! Why its simple we have all discussed it before its for FREE PRODUCTS OR MAJOR DISCOUNTS!!! Why else would he stand up and protect a bad vendor when hes a buyer? But I am going to do like Larry ask and not turn this thread on Larry this is about a bad vendor!!!!!!!

Kathryn is there anything I can do to help you? Now is the time for the Haunt Industry to stand together and put a stop to this! If anyone out there stands up and continues to protect a bad vendor then we should black ball that person as well. Why? It just shows you that they are shady too! I think we all should stand together and help Kathryn out!!! Kathryn? Karl? What can we do?

I am sure theres major typos ect in this responce I am just so mad and my fingers don't work as fast as my mind and thoughts! Excuse me for that I just cant stand when this happens! Why? I have feelings for people who have been taken advantage of! I can honestly say when I lay down at night and sleep I have never took advantage of a person and have never protected a crook for my own personal gain! I have a feeling there will be two people to respond here Larry is one and you can guess who the other one is!

Larry out of respect for Kathryn and Karl I ask you not to remove my post as its pretty much on the topic thread. Shane and its my heart goes out to Kathryn Shane this time!!!!!

mindtumor
09-24-2008, 07:00 AM
I only agree with Shane 1% of the time and this is the 1%. And the 1% of his post I agree with is buyers should pay vendors on time and vendors should ship product on time anyway. Too bad because I do like those vac-form panels.

Nightgore
09-24-2008, 07:42 AM
Like I said in the other thread about this... get EVERYTHING in contract! Don't EVER just hand over cash or write a check. Get a legaly formed contract for EVERY ORDER WITH A VENDOR... and if the vendor doesn't come through, take them to court or press charges.

Also, report this company to the Better Business Bureau (BBB), maybe enough people will stop working with them that they'll wake-up and actually start doing something about it!

Makes me sick! -Tyler

PS: Transworld '09... I'M BRINGING CONTRACTS!!!

mindtumor
09-24-2008, 07:48 AM
Like I said in the other thread about this... get EVERYTHING in contract! Don't EVER just hand over cash or write a check. Get a legaly formed contract for EVERY ORDER WITH A VENDOR... and if the vendor doesn't come through, take them to court or press charges.

Also, report this company to the Better Business Bureau (BBB), maybe enough people will stop working with them that they'll wake-up and actually start doing something about it!

Makes me sick! -Tyler

PS: Transworld '09... I'M BRINGING CONTRACTS!!!

Good luck getting people to sign contracts. Sounds like you won't be buying much.

Slain
09-24-2008, 07:54 AM
Like I said in the other thread about this... get EVERYTHING in contract! Don't EVER just hand over cash or write a check. Get a legaly formed contract for EVERY ORDER WITH A VENDOR... and if the vendor doesn't come through, take them to court or press charges.

Also, report this company to the Better Business Bureau (BBB), maybe enough people will stop working with them that they'll wake-up and actually start doing something about it!

Makes me sick! -Tyler

PS: Transworld '09... I'M BRINGING CONTRACTS!!!

I'm with you..Something legally binding

graystone
09-24-2008, 07:56 AM
Thats a good idea but here is what happens. Some companies don't have a pot to piss in. So if you do go to court and win there is really nothing you can get as they don't have anything!!! But here is the thing get everyone together thats been riped off and then they can show a fraud case and then they can be put in prison!

Again I love to see people scared! And to think that a vendor caused me not to get to open because of their actions is just WRONG! I feel so bad for Kathryn.

You see Larry when you trust a friend over what others are telling you what happens. I hope this is the case when you always take up for them because they are your friend and not for personal gain! Because when you do that you see what happens? Again INDUSTRY LETS BAN TOGETHER CALL ME LETS STOP THIS AND STOP IT NOW!!!!! Shane and its I care Kathryn Shane this time!

Jim Warfield
09-24-2008, 08:02 AM
All the years that my Dad was alive, in business he almost never had a contract, if there was one ever, it came from the customer to hold him responsible, not to guarantee any kind of timely payments.
He also almost never got ANY Money upfront, even though anyone would tell you he (my Dad) was the most honest person you could ever find, especially when held up next to the competitors whose reputation was very poor.
I have always heard the saying:"Any contract is only as good as the two people signing it." Which sounds like maybe the lazy lawyer's way out of putting forth enough effort on their part?
My Father wanted to think everyone was honest and good at heart, everyone isn't.
He left behind an enormous amount of goodwill with many kind words coming from everyone, but no measurable wealth. He made his choices, he just worked longer and longer hours to make up for the slow, short pay.
Maybe contracts would not have helped that much, but it might have been smart to at least give it a try.
Would the cost and legal efforts to enforce contracts when doing it across state lines be worth the effort?
Spending $5,000 because you already lost $2,000 sounds like a rich person's game to me. A game the lawyers like.........

graystone
09-24-2008, 08:03 AM
I dont think any honest respectful company would have a problem signing a contract. And if they do chances are you have just saved yourself money and heartach! Shane

mindtumor
09-24-2008, 08:32 AM
I dont think any honest respectful company would have a problem signing a contract. And if they do chances are you have just saved yourself money and heartach! Shane

Problem is the ones that would sign it are the ones that you wouldn't have trouble with anyway. You and I both know there are only a couple of bad fruits out there. The same people you get your stuff from and praise are the same people I buy from and have only good stuff to say about them. I am on your side this time Shane.

P.S. There is no excuse for being a bad BUYER either. I want to throw that out before we hear it mentioned.

grossparts
09-24-2008, 08:36 AM
I would sign a contract or promise to deliver the products by the promised date...I have no problem with that. If thats what it would take to make sure you feel safe as a customer what does it hurt?

Again I am sick and tired of hearing this story from what seems the same vendors over and over. Larry does need to quit protecting these people..but as we all know and how he reminds us constantly...its his sandbox!! I'm sure I will hear about that comment..lol.

Jeff

mindtumor
09-24-2008, 08:51 AM
To be fair, THIS year everyone I ordered from did a great job on my stuff and I got everything in plenty of time. I was worried about one order but it came through looking better than expected. I even ordered some stuff pretty late and got it with plenty of time to get it put up. I did have 2 issues with people that I don't want to air that did cause me to not do business with them and/or prevent me from doing business with them in the future but it didn't have anything to do with getting stuff so it is irrelevant.

Jeff, you guys are the type of vendor that would get stuff out in a timely fashion and do quality work so there wouldn't really be a need to get a contract. I haven't ordered from you but I would and I would vouch for you based on knowing you.

mindtumor
09-24-2008, 09:15 AM
I never said anything about Larry, I only commented on the vendor situation. Larry is a good guy and I highly doubt he thinks it is ok for these companies to take advantage of people, in fact I know he doesn't. I think he only speaks from his experience with these people as we all do. Talking about what he may or may not think takes away from the subject. Lets be fair to him because he hasn't even commented on this thread.

Shane, that being said before you call me a Larry lover or fan or whatever, remember I agree with you 100% on your vendor stance and I wasn't insulting you. This is an important subject and I think it does help out our community to discuss it.

grossparts
09-24-2008, 10:39 AM
Thanks Jared for the kind words. Your right Shane a small percentage of haunters do come here...I do feel sorry for Kathryn and I hope she pulls through our prayers are with her. I recently went throuogh this with a family memeber and wouldnt wish it on anyone.

For the vendor or vendors causing this poor woman hardship please come through for her as a matter of fact why dont you double her order or throw in a lot of items!!!

Jeff

Nightmaretony
09-24-2008, 01:31 PM
I left a message for both Shane and Gore Galore on this possible proposal.

A chip in for anyone in here reading. A vendor willing to specialty make the items needed to get Kathryn running again, and haunters chipping in to pay for the items and shipping.

The message I left was on this proposal and on my own bit to help, I would be donating 10 copies of Dark Matter and asking Gore Galore to sell those 10 with 100% of the money going towards the items for Kathryn.

Are any other vendors and haunters willing to step in to help?

kpolley
09-24-2008, 02:20 PM
Don't know what I can do to help, but I'm all about banding together to fix this mess. Let me know how I can help and I'll see what we can do.

Mistress DeSade
09-24-2008, 02:41 PM
Thank you all for the kind words-I do very much appreciate the support. Jim I can very much relate to your father. I want to find the good in everyone-but I do realize that is just my Doris Day hope.

The problem with contracts (or even winning a suit in court) is enforcement. Winning is often the easy part. So, what happens after you win? Well-you spend more money and try to collect. If it's a significant amount of money (or multiple creditors) they can file bankruptcy and then you can wallpaper your room with a judgment that got you nothing.

Larry doesn't know me-we've just moved in different circles (and I don't seek a high profile)..but he could ask Jim Hughes about me. I believe the two have a business arrangement now.. Brckee and I have been friends for several years through the old Methodz of Madness. The guys from EFX-TEK, Shipwreck, Corey Minion, Karl, The Wolfe Brothers, The Pickels, Wil Shock (seeing some diversity here?) Tim Burton, Ralis, Bad Boys....I could continue..but the point is they all know me; many are on my personal health email updates-and they know I care about people, that I deal honestly and fairly with everyone and I conduct my business in the most professional manner possible.

Keith was supposed to send my dragon (which he said he had on hand cause another company had changed its' mind) in '07. It was key in my final room, which of course is critical to the patrons' perception of whether a haunt was good or not...so was kinda like having a fireworks show with no fireworks. Sparklers only. No advance warning...no apology, nothing. How much did that cost me? Ok. He had a bad year. I understand. Didn't make me happy-but at least I was still open and we got good local reviews.
This year he suggests the walls to me. Can have them to you in a few days...I RELIED on him doing the right thing to open at all this year because physically the illness is taking its' toll. I'm supposed to open the day after tomorrow-but I don't have-um, walls. Right. So-get them..paint or drybrush them (including fire-retarding because these are plastic),
set them up, finish dressing them out, get the fire marshall out for approval, get the co, change the advertising to reflect new dates and open...when? All presumably in between doctors appointments and working with a volunteer crew that only knows we don't have walls yet? I'm not a mega haunt..I'm a single female with a very dedicated event manager (with a full time job) and a very small staff. I did a lot of the physical work myself (including construction, pneumatics, etc) but I can't depend on feeling good till 6am or 7am every night to get this done. So, in the interest of my health-what's the sane decision? Reluctantly, to pull the plug. Now, how much have I lost? Well, not much more than if I'd never tried to open this year at all-except for reputation, my time, the stress and physical exertion that I've wasted. The time of the crew.....

Now in the interest of fairness I will say that I got a vm from Keith late yesterday who advised me that he hadn't gotten ANY of my emails, text messages, voice mails, etc in the last week plus, because he was in Arizona. I-phones don't work in Arizona? Maybe he's been at the bottom of the grand canyon rafting-I'm not sure. He didn't say why he lied to me and told me that the walls had already been shipped September 10th....he DID say that "my walls had accidentally gotten shipped to California (that's close to TX) and that they were sending them back to the factory and if I wanted he'd send my money back and we'd be all done". I called the freight company and was told that there WAS a mix up on the shipment...they had been sent out to California YESTERDAY...the shipment had been halted and they were diverting here and I may get monday. Again-he lied...and only after the pressure from fellow haunters because of these posts. You should not have to resort to these desperate measures to get what you paid for 2 seasons earlier. You should not have to "have friends" to get results (but thank heavens I do). And he wants to "refund my money" and be done with it? Hmm.. refunding-the amount I paid? The amount I"m losing? (3rd call today for a group of 20 this weekend that I won't be open for) or for my wasted time...time the doctors say I don't have.

Ok-I've said way more than enough and it's off my chest. I made the decision last week to pull the plug because I didn't hear anything from Keith, and I'm not going to scramble like a lunatic at the last second to reverse-because I just don't have the stamina right now. I booked a weekend to philadelphia for Oct 11th and emailed Brett at Terror Behind the walls to go see his show...and will go see Bates motel if Randy will have me-and just try to have some R&R. The walls seem to be on their way...maybe I can do an extreme home haunt and at least take donations for the cancer foundation.

Bottom line-Keith has some wonderful products. That has never been in question. For whatever reason(s), I don't feel, as a professional haunter, that he is capable of conducting business at present and until something significant happens to change that I would strongly urge caution in any purchase arrangements.
Our character is shown by what we do when no one is looking. I hope this can be a learning experience for many.

Kathryn

graystone
09-24-2008, 02:57 PM
I think we all here can understand where you are coming from. Again if you need anything let me or someone know. Lets just hope this puts the lid on bad dealings and offering excuses and-or having friends stick up for them. We all will remember this and Kathryn I promise you a buyers group is coming just for reasons like this. Shane and its soon Kathryn soon you will see a change in this industry Shane this time.

Matt Marich
09-24-2008, 05:43 PM
An invoice with proper terms spelled out correctly institutes a contract and legal binding agreement. If the customer is paying with CC they should fill out an authorization form so the vendor can charge the balance of payment, shipping and send the item quickly. This clears up any disagreements with money, which is the root of all evil. Keeping in touch with the customer, letting them know of delays, don't lie to them, always be reachable, create a relationship. Hell we don't always get it right, but we sure as hell are doing everything we can too!!

You do not need a "contract" to buy a stock item, but checking out a companie's background would help a great deal. That's what HHVA is trying to accomplish, give customers a starting point with credibility. We have so many clients this time of year that flat out have broke the bank and have a hard time with their balance due from TW. This really slows us up. We try to work through this with them.

Short supply of items we don't manufacture that go into our products is a constant problem, one we have little chance to fight other than stocking them heavily hoping orders will come!

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we are a highly specialized group, we are not making 1,000 toasters here, just monsters, one at a time.

Happy Halloween Everyone!
Damn I love this time of Year!

Matt Marich
President
Edge Designs

www.edgedesignsonline.com

Grimley
09-24-2008, 06:28 PM
If I am not sure about a company or need an item by a certain time I have always put a cancel by date on the order. Almost all of orders are done at the show and most order forms have a cancel by date on them. I put a date and usually hold firm to that date. I can't do anything with new products 10 days before Halloween. So they cancel the order. If they give you any grief you signed a contract which they did not fulfill. I can pick up the phone with the Credit card company and have the charges refunded. NEVER NEVER give them a check. Always pay by Credit Card.

Mistress DeSade
09-24-2008, 08:17 PM
As a point of clarification I DID pay with a credit card. Unfortunately I canceled this credit card (figured I didn't need 6) and while they are "supposed" to issue checks for credits received....I've had at least a dozen prior customers (I was in banking with JP Morgan Chase for 21 years) who had to wait more than 9 months...some never received a check at all. And for those of you who believe that (in general) paying with a credit card gives you absolute protection....let me burst your bubble. Depending on the card-and the bank that issues the card-your protection can range from nothing more than lodging a complaint with the seller (a dispute is lodged) to actually refunding your money. I personally had a 12year battle with Discover over an antique dealer delivering the chairs and china cabinet (no table) and trying to stick me with the full bill. Dropped my credit score from 802 to 720 over 1 year. because I wouldn't pay the balance. For those of you about to protest and say "but after 7years the credit bureaus have to remove the item (it was obviously disputed)...that's only with the ORIGINAL creditor. Creditors can sell the paper (note) every few months if they wish and it becomes a "new collection".

Lessons here? While cash/checks give you little to no protection; credit cards are not the cure all either (I find American Express the most consumer friendly).
A contract may give you some teeth-but you also may find yourself in court to enforce it and somewhere else to collect it. The best protection ,imho, is to deal ONLY with companies/individuals with proven reputations of integrity-and blackball as a community those we know do not.

drfrightner
09-24-2008, 10:22 PM
Couple of things... don't involve my name in all of this. I have ONLY tried to help get vendors and buyers issues resolved. It's Halloween time, its time for me to run my haunted house, solve the issues yourself.

SLAIN...the ONLY person who should be 'BITCH SLAPPED' is you...and if you EVER come on this board EVER again and say something like that again I will remove you from this site for good. You are one of the MOST negative people I have ever met.

SHANE...same goes for you and saying you are going to SLIT peoples throats, or a person will find themselves floating down the river. On this thread you are coming across more professional than in the past kudos to you, but still you make up these unreal lies about me... I don't get discounts from any vendor, nor do I get paid off to defend anyone. Stop making up your lies!!! Stick to the facts, I have nothing to do with this so keep my name out of it.

Now... bottom line I have nothing to do with this. If you have a complaint whatever, just don't turn it into a soap opera with ongoing daily reports of Judge Judy, and everything else. I think we've all seen and heard enough of this.

I'm sorry ANY vendor doesn't follow through on someones orders, but that is not within my control or your control, or anyone else's. Seems like there is an ongoing problem, and any vendor who can't seem to get things straight should consider another line of work.

There is always two sides to every story, there is those times when something might get overlooked, and hopefully this is one of those cases, and it can get resolved and I hope it does.

If Keith is reading all of this I hope he gets in touch with this person and resolves the issues...I have found Keith to be nothing but a person who wants to do whats right, and I hope in this case he does the same once again just as he has done for many others who had problems with him last year.

Larry

drfrightner
09-24-2008, 10:26 PM
Mistress DeSade,

I agree maybe its the new way to go, just pay for everything by credit card so you have some level of recourse. Put everything in writing so you can show the credit card company all documentation.

Another thing here is maybe just maybe all haunters should STOP making deposits and pay CASH when its ready to pick up, or buy things COD, so you are not out anything.

There are things you can do, and if a vendor won't agree to these terms move onto the next guy. I think maybe that is what everyone might need to do... COD, that is fair for both the vendor and buyer. If they don't make your product you are not out anything. Nothing lost nothing gained.

Larry

drfrightner
09-24-2008, 10:47 PM
Shane, Jeff, and everyone else STOP bringing up my name, you clearly have NO CLUE what I stand for or what I believe. So STOP speaking for me...

What do I believe in...hmmm I think that speaks for itself. When SHANE the non-stop slam machine parked his butt on this site slamming not only Scareparts but a lot of other vendors I do stick up for all vendors and feel they deserve to have their side of the story heard. Most vendors won't get on these sites and defend themselves because it is counter productive.

What did I do when all the people said they got screwed by Scareparts? Lets think about that one long and FUC*KING HARD before you start ripping on me. I called Keith to the carpet, and insisted if he was going to do business with me he clear up all this outstanding stuff, which from every indication he did exactly that. SO DID I HELP PEOPLE get their orders filled or their money back or just defend Keith? THINK ABOUT!

Even Shane the most impossible person in the HAUNTED WORLD finally got all his issues ironed out with Keith... yeah yeah I just sat around and did nothing. Why don't you call Keith and ask him if everytime someone emailed me about him if I didn't PERSONALLY CALL HIM and tell him and pushed him to resolve it. He did from my understanding RESOLVE EVERY ISSUE...GOOD FOR KEITH!

So yeah we see one or two more people complain about this vendor or that vendor... are you telling me that you please every person who goes through your haunt? I WILL BET YOU ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY SHANE, PAUL, or whomever you DO NOT! But do we see those people on here daily blasting your attraction? And if we did what would you guys say....something like, that guy was a jerk in the attraction, he hit my actor, he did this they did that it wasn't my fault. Yeah yeah...I own an attraction so I know.

I've heard them all and used them all...

The point is I believe that we all as business owners and operators run into problems, I have and many times the complaints are UNFAIR! You don't SOLVE problems on message boards I know I won't. I'll straight up tell someone if you have an issue with me you can email me directly not on or through some message board.

I do NOT believe that ANY of these vendors are out to screw you, just as you are not out to screw your customers you charge $20.00 to and then half your actors don't show up one night but YOU STILL OPENED! HUH?

So don't give me that song and dance... we all have issues, we all have problems, and there is always two sides to a story, and yes one side might be more accurate than another, and if a vendor screwed anyone they should be called to the carpet and not patronized.

It just seems like atleast to me some people have created this ATTACK MODE response for every single little problem someone has with someone, rather than maybe, just maybe trying to resolve the issue through someone who might be able to help you.

I have received emails from haunt owners for YEARS asking me for my help to resolve an issue, or contact a company... I'll always tell the vendor LOOK MAN DO WHAT IT TAKES TO RESOLVE THIS THING, I can't stop them from making an issue of it on every message board, so clear this up asap!

Many times the vendor will say they didn't realize, sorry, they'll fix it, thanks for the heads up and things get resolves in a peaceful manor, without all this SHANE PAUL DRAMA!

I had a serious issue with a vendor this year, yes someone who went to the tradeshow and they kept my money and never sent me my product, I put them on notice myself, without message boards, that I want my money back asap! I think this vendor is a deadbeat and I will never order ANYTHING FROM THEM EVER, nor will I suggest to someone else they order from this vendor, but I'm not on this board slamming this vendor either.

I resolved it myself.

And if you can't ask others to get involved and find out how they can help. What in the HELL is this HVC or whatever in the hell that is, what do they stand for what are their plans, maybe they can do something, why not complain to them. Why does it always have to be a drama thing.

That is MY ONLY COMPLAINT, not that it is okay for you to get screwed because it is NOT OKAY AND I WOULD NEVER SAY IT IS OKAY!

JUST ASK KEITH! JUST ASK ANY VENDOR when someone contacts me and I pass the word along, NO IT IS NOT OKAY!

PERIOD!

So to all you freaking idiots out there that want to put words in my mouth, WATCH IT, speak for yourself because I will tell you or anyone NO IT IS NOT OKAY TO TAKE SOMEONES MONEY AND WALK AWAY!

If someone takes your money doesn't give you the product but then gives your money back, yeah you can be upset but you did get your money back, and there is nothing new there, this happens with things ordered in every field.

Things must change going forward... VENDORS need to change their policy, they need to charge more and take fewer orders, more vendors must emerge, the tradeshow must move sooner rather than later, people must not wait until the last minute to order and vendors must not take orders they can not fill, this is a TWO WAY street and things must change but its not my fault, and I don't advocate anyone screwing anyone.

PERIOD!

Larry

Jim Warfield
09-25-2008, 02:26 AM
Is a quote from Larry concerning employees in a haunt.
If only half of my employees are going to show up some night, I hope it's October 31st, Halloween when we have Ghost Seeker's Night here in the wine cellar because this would really add to the already haunted, haunted room.
Imagine how scary it would be seeing just the lower half of someone walking around! (Or just the upper half laying in the corner trying to get someone to pick them up!?)
"Help me! I'm swimming in pools of my own feces and urine!"

graystone
09-25-2008, 04:41 AM
I want to point out a couple of things then I am moving on. This thread is about Kathryn being ripped off and YES I SAID RIPPED OFF!

1- Yes I agree there are two sides to every story. Now when that story is about the same person with the same issues and the same problems over and over and over. Would you not tend to believe that that person is just out right lying? Your going to belive that one person is telling the truth every time and everyone else is lying all the time? All I will say is if you believe one person over many who have come here and complained. Well you are either the most gullible person in the world or the most stupid to ever walk the face of the earth. I suggest ask a judge and see what he tells you. ( also dont come back and say I called you a name because I didn't).

2-You say you have nothing to do with it. Yet you defend this issue time and time again. Just don't defend the issue and then say, you have nothing to do with it. When you stick up for an on going issue to me and I would think everyone else it comes across that you indeed have something to do with it. Please note I said it would seem. I find myself needing to clarify things I say to you.

Also don't say contact me and I will help you work it out. I would suggest from here on out if someone contacts you about an issue you say don't call me I have nothing to do with it thats between you and that person leave me out of it. Or say look nothing personal I am not a judge or lawyer and I have my own problems to deal with. That way there is no chance that someone can say your taking sides. Bottom line when you tell people to contact you then you are indeed involved.

3- Simple yes in past I have said things like they need to be shot, or hung, throat slit or whatever. I believe there is no reason for a person to take advantage of another person. I hate thives just like I hate child molesters, rapest, robbers, and anyone else that does harm to another person. Weither its physical or mental and yes those people need to be hung, shot or found floating down a river. WE DON'T NEED THEM IN THIS WORLD HURTING OUR FRIENDS, FAMILY OR ANYONE ELSE ITS WRONG!!!!!

4-You stated that you had been done wrong by a vendor that took your money but your not going to bring it up. My question to you is why would you not tell all of us who it is? Do you think because you got ripped off that others should get what you got? I rather tell everyone and make sure that my friends, or just people in this industry would be protected from this person or persons. Do you not want to warn people of this? Honestly Larry what you said just dont add up as to why not warn us. I am sure the good vendors would love the added income they would recieve too.

5-You stated that I have told lies on you that your getting free stuff, huge discounts ect. I have told no lies on you so let me clarify this again. This is my opinion or assumption. Do I know this to be true? NO do I know it not be true? NO. All I can assume is when a vendor does wrong your always and in most cases the only to stand up and say maybe they over looked you or they just could not get out everything or they had to many orders or whatever other reasons you offer. I don't see the good vendors out there having to make excuses. Why? because its just that they don't have to because they are hard working and honest. On that note let me add if you go back and look its the same few vendors every time. And its those deadbeats thats causing all the problems.

6-You asked if we please everyone that went through our haunts. How can this be the same as the issue? If you asked did someone pay and go through your haunt and come out unhappy thats one thing. But to say did someone pay you to go through your haunt and right after you took their money you closed the door thats another. This is not about a patron being unhappy about a show. This is about taking ones money and not giving them anything. Larry your a smart man YOU KNOW THIS IS NOT THE SAME DAMN THING! Just please stop offering excuses and do like do as you ask "leave me out of it" and stay out of it.

7-You say I bash vendors yet you never make mention to all the good vendors I mention here all the time. I BASH BAD VENDORS! Has my bashing caused me to be black balled? Nope I spent a little over 45,000 this season with the good vendors that were happy to sell to me.

8- You make mention to me, Paul and others for the way we speek and express ourselves that if we don't do it in the manner you like we will be booted and removed from this site. When that happens do we get refunds on the money we have spent on ads here. The way I look at it we earned the right to be here over people who don't spend a damn dime with you. We along with everyone else who spends money on ads ect. here have earend the right to come here and express our feelings. By buying ads we help you keep this site up. Now don't come back and say that it cost more than were paying you already said its costing you out the ass and I already see that you need to charge more and thats understandable. But again we have already paid the price you asked.

Ok I could go on and on but I just realized this is stupid we all know what we know bottom line. Larry don't remove this because I have made some really good points. Again lets keep Kathryn in our thoughts and prayers and lets keep asking God to punish those who do wrong. Kathryn what goes around comes around. Everyone pray for Kathryn's health that she gets better. Also lets pray that these bad vendors and buyers get what they deserve. Shane and its I have said enough Shane this time.

bodybagging
09-25-2008, 05:48 AM
Grrrrrrrrrrrrr Trying Hard not to get involved, but Got to step in with my opinion on the COD ordering.
As a Smaller vendor, I can honestly say not going to happen with us, I Feed every extra dollar from My day to Day job into BodyBag entertainment, and I could not afford to take a bunch of COD orders that once orders are fulfilled, people dont answer phones, emails , or simply inform us that they are having financial issues and will have to cancel their order.
Not sticking up for any vendor but as always there is the flip side of the coin, and you get crap buyers as well, Buyers that get caught up in the moment at TW, screaming I GOTTA HAVE THAT PROP!, add in the element of not having any out of pocket costs at the moment and next thing you know they are going way out of budget.
Do I think they are being malicious? NO, just caught up in the excitement of the show.
I know of a few vendors that are sitting on nearly $20,000.00 worth of TW orders that customers wont pay for. Personally that would BREAK ME.
Maybe one day BodyBag Entertainment will be large enough to be able to float payments but for now, Im lucky to float Lunch.

On That note, I would just like to end this with.....
One day I pray that this Industry that we all love so much comes together and forms a united front. Buyers, vendors, doesnt matter much, we are all haunters!

Nightgore
09-25-2008, 07:37 AM
I too don't agree with the COD orders... Myself, when I do my dealing at TW, I always pay cash on the spot. But this year (2009) at TW, I'm thinking of doing half with a contract, then half on arrival. IDK... we're still working on it, but the contracts aren't leaving, our lawyer is getting SEVERAL made now. -Tyler

craigsrobotics
09-25-2008, 07:45 AM
I usually don't get involved or chime in among all this drama (usually occurs when Larry and Shane are involved in the same topic...comical at times, I must say...LOL...no offense guys)...but I feel the need to say something...Shane, kudos to you...you made some good points above...specifically points 2, 4, and 8...(BTW, LOVE YOUR HAUNT PICS, bro)...

I think there is way too much drama on this board at times...I come here to lurk and exchange valuable information, and Larry, you have an awesome board, my friend, but sometimes, I think you may just need to sit back, relax and not respond to much of this drama, or take it too personally...I understand the need to defend yourself at times, however.....please don't take offense to this...I agree we should not BASH vendors to an extent, but I like to be informed on which ones are giving us problems. I feel horrible when I hear of our industry having to deal with dead-beat vendor transactions... I work as a pneumatic technician at a major commercial haunt, and we use a diverse range of products from several popular and not-so-popular vendors, and have run into some of the same problems with them( missing parts, paying in full and getting partial products, etc).... This sort of information helps to know what I can expect when dealing with some of them...

Ok, thanks for listening, or ignoring me...LOL..whichever...hope I didn't hit a nerve...just an observation from a neutral party.... I'll continue to sit back and watch the shinannigans unfold...LOL...have a great day guys.:)

grossparts
09-25-2008, 08:31 AM
Well stated Body...we could not afford to do COD either, and I think that is a terrible idea. We all have had customer place large orders only to not hear from them again once the items have been made. There are bad points on both sides of the coin. We as vendors need to deliver on promised products, buyers need to pay for products they ordered, can't get much simplier than that...if we all followed that everyone would be happy.

Jeff

Mistress DeSade
09-25-2008, 09:01 AM
well said, Jeff and Body.

I'm sure if you look at our industry as a whole-there are way more issues with buyers than vendors, however neither should be given a pass.

Presumably the vendor's coalition, in part, helps to caution the vendors about non-performing buyers. If, as a vendor in this community you knew of 1 buyer who was passing bad checks...would you not speak up? if you KNEW that buyer....maybe even spoke with that buyer to tell them they had to stop-but the bad checks continued to happen. "Man, I'm sorry...I was just short on cash that day. Man, I'm sorry-my car broke down and I had to pay the mechanic..yada yada" You're not going to speak up and tell people "Hey, you know this is really a good person, but don't take checks" Really? It doesn't matter if it's a good person or not...it's IRRESPONSIBLE! This is NOT (or shouldn't be) a personality contest and we are not in the 5th grade. This is business. Let's conduct business.

I'm simply saying that buyers should have the same capability. If the buyers "in our sphere of influence" feel that they cannot trust a vendor-or that no one disciplines a vendor that repeatedly violates the trust of the buyers-they will either stop buying-or will turn to outside sources. How is that of benefit to "our group" of haunters? Ideally, this coalition would have "approved" vendors AND buyers that agree to a form of ethics as a condition of membership. You violate the ethics agreement and you are booted out. Can make your own way in this old, cold world. Little more work? You betcha. Less time than reading/posting/responding to this last ditch effort posts? You betcha. Lot more professional as well.

Kathryn

graystone
09-25-2008, 10:20 AM
Again this is about an on going issue! Lets keep this thread about the problem and not turn it into a discussion on how we should pay. I have my opinions of that but lets start that on another thread. Shane and its I am trying to keep on topic Shane this time.

drfrightner
09-25-2008, 11:44 AM
Shane,

I won't remove your post, I have no problem people being professional have sharing their views, its just when you start down another path of taking things way off the subject or attacking people namely myself. Why you must list my name in every single post you make I'll never know.

Craig,

Here is my overall point... as for you saying I should sit back and not saying anything, well its hard when people like Paul (SLAIN) and or Shane put my name into like every post they make or say my view is this or that I did that, when I did not. I believe in setting the records straight.

Why can't they simply speak for themselves, and let me speak for myself? They say the point is about the person screwed, so then why did they bring my name up? You tell me!

Now bottom line is my view is NO IT IS NOT OKAY to screw someone, and I did in fact not ONLY defend Scareparts but helped people collect their monies due, or their product. Is this not correct? So why is it I'm accused of defending this type of actions? Same with all the vendors if someone contacts me I do take the time to pass along the message, I don't want to see any vendor screw anyone or any buyer screw a vendor.

Overall I guess what I'm tired of is simply, it has become to vogue to run to a message board everytime someone has a problem. Take an issue through every channel possible before starting a thread like this...that isn't too much to ask I don't think.

Again I'm not saying that didn't happen here in this case, I'm merely saying just because you get upset doesn't mean a thread like this must be started, try all options all other options first. There are options available prior to posting on message boards.

Lastly, when I share my experience or someone I knows experience with a vendor that isn't defending, that is sharing my own personal experience. My relationship with Scareparts has NOT always been perfect, I was clear in pointing that out, but he did correct it eventually, and has been a lot better since last year. In fact I think he's done a 360 since last year, and many others are telling me the same so I'm only to believe that he's done an awesome job this year, but he's let a few things fall through the cracks.

I hope he resolves this issue, and I will personally call him to find out whats going on. I don't LOVE scareparts, I LOVE all the vendors, and will HELP ANY VENDOR resolve these issues.

Especially when people are using my boards to call a vendor to the carpet, I guess I need to get involved to try and end the problem so we can all move on.

We all know these types of threads NEVER END! LOL

Larry

craigsrobotics
09-25-2008, 12:26 PM
Points understood...thanks Larry. I get exhausted just thinking about how much typing you do on a daily basis just to defend yourself...:)...LOL...

drfrightner
09-25-2008, 12:35 PM
Craig,

I can assure you if people would leave my name out of their posts, and not say what I think or stand for I wouldn't reply to half as many as I do. We have seen dozens of posts about vendors over the past year and I don't get involved with all of them, but I do try and help resolve them so the drama will go away.

No one needs to say what I think, or blame me for these things because I have nothing to do with them. Let me speak for myself...trust me I have a big shoe around here and often I put that shoe into my own mouth, I don't need Shane for that. LOL

Either way I'm going to call Keith today and get to the bottom of this!

Larry

craigsrobotics
09-25-2008, 12:53 PM
Good luck, Larry...:-D

MMManiac
09-25-2008, 12:55 PM
I dont understand why all these people having problems with Keith can never get ahold of him, but Larry seems to very easily?

If you know of the secret number to call i think you should share it in private to those who are having issues with scareparts

drfrightner
09-25-2008, 12:59 PM
Keith will tell you himself call him after 5pm eastern time. Try that.

However I think the best action is email because everyone gets through on email... and no I don't have a magical hotline, however people do take my calls because we have a magazine, we have this forum, and they want us to report good things not bad things, so if having all this stuff helps me help you I will do it.

Larry