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View Full Version : Based on an argument going on.. How many here are christians?



shredman
09-27-2008, 10:27 AM
Somebody said that if you polled to see how many people here were Christians you would be surprised. I am just curious to see how this turns out. I will be the first to say, yes i am a christian

brad
09-27-2008, 05:32 PM
I'm a christian.

TheNightMare
09-27-2008, 10:39 PM
nice to see your poll doing well.

me dont vote, but carry on

Kevin Dells
09-28-2008, 03:10 AM
Im not but our haunt owner is and we do say a prayer with the crew before war evey night, a mention is made in our rules room but we don't preach it .

graystone
09-28-2008, 06:53 AM
Although I find myself asking God to forgive me as my mouth gets me in trouble daily. Believe it or not its always here. God is loving and understanding and hes forgiving if you ask him. I can honestly say everything I have gotten in life I have him to thank. Its not what I did or how I did it. EVERYTHING HAS BEEN GIVEN TO ME BY HIM! Shane and its God can give and he can take. Think about that Shane this time.

kpolley
09-28-2008, 01:20 PM
I was the one who made that statement...and yes, obviuosly, I am a Christian as well. Look here...Shane and I are in agreement on something. This is a huge step forward. :)

Seriously though, Shane couldn't be more right. I also know that I owe all that I have to God. He has blessed me in so many ways with a wonderful wife, home, and a job that I get up every morning excited to do. My faith in God has gotten me through so many hard times and I know that I can endure anything with God at my side.

I can do everything through Him who gives me strength. Philipians 4:13

I pray that we all have a safe, fun, and profitable season and that we all might bite our tongues a little more often...myself definitely included. God Bless.

Jim Warfield
09-28-2008, 03:45 PM
They see me as the most "religious" person they have ever known."
Kind treatment of others and always living everyday so you have no guilt at bedtime to keep you awake are a couple of the "earmarks" to getting along better in our lives.
Don't all major religions have these basic tennets?
What "Works", works, what doesn't is not kept by large numbers of people.
Picking and choosing certain lines or versus to back up one's aggressive arguements has never been the way to cohabitate successfully and pursue true happiness.
People are much more alike than different, we all have a hungry stomach everyday, we all want what is best for our loved ones.
A good repution is the product of a livetime, a bad reputation can happen in a split-second.
It does matter what others think of us or how they see us.

BrainDonor13
09-28-2008, 07:13 PM
Does laying in bed yelling, "OH GOD!" count?

FearSeeker
09-28-2008, 08:37 PM
BrainDonor,

That made me laugh out loud. Thanks! I needed that!

Phoenix
09-28-2008, 11:55 PM
The preceding argument passed me by, but out of interest, why 'Christians' in particular? what about Muslims, Scientologists, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Agnostics, Atheists? or for that matter Pagans? all these would seemingly fall into the No category.

Are you trying to establish how many have a spiritual belief or just those with a Christian spiritual belief?

Haunting Copy
09-29-2008, 01:53 AM
I voted (no), but I question the value of asking such a question.

Those in the minority group **may** feel a little ostracized, while those
in the Christian camp **may** feel a bit too cozy and happy about
themselves.

You see, those who have voted "no" have *not* gone on to talk about
how *their* religion/spirituality has condescended to take care for
everyone on the planet, including Christians who do not subscribe to
that particular belief. ;)

Not trying to be ugly here, but people who are in the majority often
find it all too OK to talk about how *their* god is watching over all
of the rest of us.

It's just a matter of manners, ya know?

Thanks,
Sarah

FearSeeker
09-29-2008, 06:59 AM
Sarah,

I'm confused by your post above. I'm just not understanding what you're trying to say. Sorry.

I thought this poll was created because of somebody's misunderstanding of the article in your "Fuming Mad" thread, not what you actually said there, I'm very clear on that.

I really thought that this poll was just trying to establish that Christians actually do celebrate Halloween and haunting. I didn't see it about making anybody feel bad about their religion or lack thereof. It honestly doesn't matter to me what anyone's religious preference is, and I think that most of us feel that way.

I think people's religion is often a private matter and that may be why so many have not commented, if that's what you were wanting. I'm just trying to help. You know we love ya.

graystone
09-29-2008, 07:27 AM
Your right this poll is to see who are Christians in the Haunt World/Indusrty. All of those who are other religions or if your a monkey swinging atheist sorry this is not about you. THIS THREAD IS ABOUT CHRISTIANS. You may want to start your own pole. This pole is like church if it dont pertain to you or you don't believe or your of some other fourm of religion thats fine just keep it out of this thread. Again its about Christians! Shane and its Our God Is A Loving God Shane This Time!

Jim Warfield
09-29-2008, 07:30 AM
"Are you with us , or agin us?"
We have to identify which god you believe in because we will be rounding up all non-believers (in our god) and eliminating them.
History, this history, just keeps repeating itself, another ungodly excuse to imprison and eliminate large groups of people, just "because".
And who created all people?
This human race behaves very badly.

FearSeeker
09-29-2008, 07:33 AM
Now I think I get what Sarah meant. I think you just made her point. No offense intended, but if you're a Christian, shouldn't you welcome all with open arms? The poll has to be about both Christians and non-Christians or else it wouldn't ask which you are. You may remove that foot from your mouth now. LOL

mindtumor
09-29-2008, 07:36 AM
Somebody said that if you polled to see how many people here were Christians you would be surprised. I am just curious to see how this turns out. I will be the first to say, yes i am a christian

I am, too.

Phoenix
09-29-2008, 08:15 AM
Your right this poll is to see who are Christians in the Haunt World/Indusrty. All of those who are other religions or if your a monkey swinging atheist sorry this is not about you. THIS THREAD IS ABOUT CHRISTIANS. You may want to start your own pole. This pole is like church if it dont pertain to you or you don't believe or your of some other fourm of religion thats fine just keep it out of this thread. Again its about Christians! Shane and its Our God Is A Loving God Shane This Time!


Actually you are quite wrong here, this POLL invited non Christians to take part by having a NO category, maybe the possible answers should have been 1) YES or 2) Of course yes otherwise I would not be answering this dumb poll!


Oh and Shane, the correct term is APES not monkeys, and since the Anglican Church has recently seen fit to make a public apology to Charles Darwin for 'misunderstanding the Theory of Evolution' you may want to take a look at their apology some time and realign your prejudices with contemporary theological thinking.

kpolley
09-29-2008, 09:27 AM
The whole point was to say that Christians are not inherently against Halloween and that, I figured, a large number of us here were Christians. The poll set up by someone who wanted to see if what I said was true or not.

One thing that I see brewing here that I see so often is the tension that discussions about faith bring out. I'll tell you this...I think that everyone should have a relationship with God but there is no Biblical justification to support forcing belief on anyone. There is nothing about me or any other Christian that makes us "better" or anything like that. Christ died for ALL mans sins...not just some. The only difference between me and a non-Christian is that I acknowledge and accept that fact and place my faith in the God who gave up everything to walk on Earth and die for my sins. That doesn't make me better than anyone else. All people sin and fall short of God's glory.

Are there Christians out there preaching the wrong message...of course. There are those who want to condemn others or proclaim how righteous they are. There are even the nut jobs from Westboro who have somehow twisted scripture to justify shouting "God hates fags" at funerals.

You'll never get past the fact that there are bad apples in every bunch. I would encourage those who don't share my faith, however, to judge Christianity by the Book we all put our faith in and not the people on the fringe who give us all a bad name. In the end, Christianity is all about love. When Christ was asked what was the most important commandment he answered: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments". Matthew 22: 37 - 40

I guess all I'm trying to say is that the world sometimes gets a very bad impression of Christians from people who call themselves Christians but whose actions say otherwise. It's not about condemnation. It's not about judgment. It's not about anything but love. Love for God and love for others.

I hope that, at the very least, this helps to clarify where I am coming from on the matter. No judgement, no condemnation, no strong-arming...just love.

Phoenix
09-29-2008, 10:13 AM
As I said I wasn't familiar with the preceding argument, so you are primarily interested in the Christian Church teachings and Halloween, and not necessarily spirituality and Halloween.

The problem I've always seen with the Christian Church and this particular matter is mixed messages, all saints day and the tradition of the souls from purgatory roaming the earth is a tradition that can be traced back to Pope Boniface IV, who deliberately muddied the waters by trying to use these 'traditions' to subjugate the Pagan festival of the dead...yadda, yadda, yadda..... now the prevailing contemporary Christian opinion appears to be that Halloween is a bad thing.

Labyrinth of Phobias
09-29-2008, 10:50 AM
We're all Christians in my family but we're not radical about it. We don't even go to church regularly (don't shoot me now). We have Christian beliefs but we are very open to everyone else believing whatever they choose and we definitely don't believe that you have to worship in church in order to be "saved." We're just normal people, who are fine with just about any choices people make as long as they are not hurting others in the process.

And we certainly think that those radicals who are against celebrating Halloween have gone way overboard. We do realize that there was a short time that we were fearful about razorblades and needles being put into candy, but those days are long gone, and I, for one, haven't heard of any Columbine-type shootings related to Halloween.

graystone
09-29-2008, 10:56 AM
The right thing for me to do is to say I Am Sorry if I offended anyone here. My emotions get the best of me most of the time. And as a believer in God and his powers I ask that you forgive me. I will not judge you I will let my God take that up between you and him. Shane and its I am truly sorry Shane this time.

FearSeeker
09-29-2008, 11:13 AM
Wow! I'm impressed. Good job, buddy!

TheRupert
09-29-2008, 12:25 PM
Proud to say I'm a Christian.

Haunting Copy
09-29-2008, 09:17 PM
if your a monkey swinging atheist sorry this is not about you


Shane,

I accept your apology, if it is sincerely intended for "monkey swinging atheist[s]," - the group to which I belong.

Sarah

Haunting Copy
09-29-2008, 09:58 PM
Now I think I get what Sarah meant. I think you just made her point. No offense intended, but if you're a Christian, shouldn't you welcome all with open arms? The poll has to be about both Christians and non-Christians or else it wouldn't ask which you are. You may remove that foot from your mouth now. LOL


Thanks, FearSeeker. :)


I feel I should clarify further, however.

In kpolley's posts, he refers to his joy in his god. That's all fine. Then he goes on to tell us that his god is taking care of all of us (i.e., the only *real* god), regardless of whether we believe in his god or not.

Well, it's okay to *think* that, but it is *not* okay to say it.

To make it easier to understand my point, let's say you're at a party, with the majority of the people being American, and a small number of people being of other nationalities.

Some drunk American starts bragging that his country is the best and that all people of the world would be better off being American, because, of course, he *knows* he's correct.

He goes on to say that those of a different nationality who believe otherwise, well, that is simply their folly.

The minorities take great insult and make their indignance known.

The drunk American then apologizes, saying he never meant anything by it.

But it's too late. The group of foreigners knows *exactly* what he meant, and no amount of justification, backtracking, or smooth talking will convince them otherwise.

It's just dandy to be happy with one's own beliefs. But other people hold just as strongly in *their* beliefs, and it's just plain rude to behave arrogantly.

Sarah

FearSeeker
09-29-2008, 11:18 PM
Thanks, Sarah.

I truly do understand now.

And I honestly am one of those people who is perfectly fine with everyone's beliefs and I don't believe in trying to force my beliefs on anyone. In fact, as soon as my father died in the hospital after a long horrific battle with cancer, my family was very offended by some of the fanatics that suddenly appeared literally within seconds of his death trying to "convert" us all (without knowing a thing about us), telling us what we needed to do so that we could go to heaven upon our deaths. It was disgusting as far as we were concerned because the entire family, doctors, and nurses were all sobbing hysterically at that moment because it was an excruciating death and he had been there for so long that everyone involved had all become so close to him. We forced them to leave.

Similarly, I am totally open to others' beliefs on non-religious matters. And it makes me sad when the government tries to stifle peoples' rights, whether it be women's rights or racial equality rights or rights related to sexual orientation. I think everyone should have a right to decide what is best for them.

And what's even sadder is that people reading this will now draw conclusions about me based on that statement. But they will be wrong. I happen to be a heterosexual Anglo-American Methodist who is open-minded. I have lots of friends who are not like me, and I enjoy their company tremendously and think they should have the same rights as the rest of the population in the US.

The difference is that I don't try to force my beliefs on others. I'm sharing them now, but I'm not trying to convince anybody that my beliefs are better than theirs. I'm just stating what they are.

And I was letting Shane know earlier that I thought it took a lot for him to step up and apologize, and I appreciated that.

So if anyone thinks less of me because I expressed my views, I guess they weren't really friends to begin with.

Phoenix
09-29-2008, 11:41 PM
To make it easier to understand my point, let's say you're at a party, with the majority of the people being American, and a small number of people being of other nationalities.

Some drunk American starts bragging that his country is the best and that all people of the world would be better off being American, because, of course, he *knows* he's correct.


Being British working for an American company..... I think I was at that party, the guy in question was our boss and he wasn't drunk, he's actually always like that were you the one I saw leaving the room out of embarrassment?

Id too would like to thank Shane for his apology accepting people different beliefs and values is an increasingly important quality in the modern world where there is currently so much death and turmoil over intolerance.

kpolley
09-30-2008, 01:07 AM
Sarah,

I'm confused. You sit and say that you believe God is fake. I say otherwise and you tell me that I have the right to THINK that but not SAY it. It has nothing to do with being drunk at a party and spouting off at the mouth. You may not agree with me and that's your decision to make. God gave us all free will to choose to follow Him or not.

My real question to you is why would you take offense to me saying God cares for all people? Is there something about the notion of God that upsets you? I'm really curious. I'm not trying to be snide. I believe in a God whol loved all people, even those who deny him, so much that he gave up everything to suffer and die for us. Why do you think I have a right to believe that but not say it? Why do you think that you can say God doen't exist? Isn't it the same thing?

You have every right to not believe what I do. There are plenty of people that don't. I don't subscribe to a message of hate or oppression or anything else...only love. Christ is the perfect example of love and that is what I aim to emulate. How do you find a message of unconditional love for all people upsetting?

Maybe if we had a calm dialogue here we might better understand each other's position. If not, that's fine. I just want to be clear on my position and my faith. I don't look at you or anyone else as an enemy and I don't speak from a place of arrogance. I simply say what I know in my heart to be true. I have experienced God in so many ways and at so many times that I can't possibly stay quiet about Him. It's not strong-arming and it's not judgemental ro anything like that. It is simply me speaking from the heart. I hope you understand that.

Haunting Copy
09-30-2008, 03:17 AM
Sarah,

I'm confused. You sit and say that you believe God is fake. I say otherwise and you tell me that I have the right to THINK that but not SAY it. It has nothing to do with being drunk at a party and spouting off at the mouth. You may not agree with me and that's your decision to make. God gave us all free will to choose to follow Him or not.

My real question to you is why would you take offense to me saying God cares for all people? Is there something about the notion of God that upsets you? I'm really curious. I'm not trying to be snide. I believe in a God whol loved all people, even those who deny him, so much that he gave up everything to suffer and die for us. Why do you think I have a right to believe that but not say it? Why do you think that you can say God doen't exist? Isn't it the same thing?

You have every right to not believe what I do. There are plenty of people that don't. I don't subscribe to a message of hate or oppression or anything else...only love. Christ is the perfect example of love and that is what I aim to emulate. How do you find a message of unconditional love for all people upsetting?

Maybe if we had a calm dialogue here we might better understand each other's position. If not, that's fine. I just want to be clear on my position and my faith. I don't look at you or anyone else as an enemy and I don't speak from a place of arrogance. I simply say what I know in my heart to be true. I have experienced God in so many ways and at so many times that I can't possibly stay quiet about Him. It's not strong-arming and it's not judgemental ro anything like that. It is simply me speaking from the heart. I hope you understand that.


Kip, I appreciate your willingness to talk this over.

Here's the thing: I never, ever said that you should not say that your god is real. If it came across that way, I apologize.

What I'm trying to say is that there are two things that should not be done:

1) When "in a room" with people of different beliefs (who believe as strongly in their beliefs as you do yours), it is arrogant to make comments such as "Christ died for ALL mans sins...not just some. The only difference between me and a non-Christian is that I acknowledge and accept that fact and place my faith in the God who gave up everything to walk on Earth and die for my sins. That doesn't make me better than anyone else. All people sin and fall short of God's glory."

Now, if I were to believe that the Easter Bunny was my god, and I said, "The only difference between me and a non-Easter Bunny-follower, is that I acknowledge and accept the fact that the Great Bunny died for ALL man's sins, and I place my faith in the Bunny who gave up everything to walk on Earth and die for my sins. That doesn't make me better than anyone else. All people sin and fall short of the Bunny's glory," somebody would undoubtedly say, "Hey! Who says there was a magical Easter Bunny that ever existed? That's not what *I* believe!"

Do you see how I make the claim that there is a "fact" that MY bunny god died for YOUR sins?

Rather silly of me to assume that you blindly accept this as fact, just because myself and the majority of people in the room do, too.

Also, I doubt you subscribe to what is defined as "the Bunny's glory." What is that, anyway? It's an idea that is generated by following the beliefs of MY bunny god. YOUR idea of glory is probably going to look quite different.


2) In a mixed environment, it's simply in bad taste to go into how great your god is.

Honestly, Kip, I'm not trying to be silly. I just don't know how else I can make my point.

But what you're essentially saying to people is: "Even though you're too stupid to believe like I do, I'll be nice to you anyway."

And actually, you *do* have every right to talk about how your god cares for all of us, whether we believe in your god or not. Just don't expect people to stand around listening for very long.

In tolerance and respect,
Sarah

kpolley
09-30-2008, 09:30 AM
Sarah,

I appreciate what you are saying. Just a couple thoughts.

The statement I made about Christ dying for all mans sins is not intended to offend anyone. The point is, the Bible tells us that Christ died for even those that don't choose him. That is ultimate love. Would you die for someone that hated you? I don't know if I could do that. If Christ only died for those that believe in Him then that would be conditional love.

On the Easter Bunny thing...I think I have a real life example of what you're talking about. I used to work with a couple Indian people. Great people, great friends. They obviously shared a different faith than I did and we all knew that. I still wished them a Merry Christmas. They would bring me traditional treats from their holiday celebrations. We both had drastically different views on faith, but it never got in our way. If saomeone says God Bless You to a non-believer it seems to me that there is no harm done. The non-believer thinks that there is no God to bless them, but they understand that the other person believes that and is only trying to wish them well. Christianity isn't a hobby or even a belief system...it is a life. God permeates my life so much that I can't help but talk about Him when I get the chance the same way you might talk about a TV show or sports team or whatever else you find yourself engrossed in. I understand what you're saying about circumstances and I hate the "uncomfortable" people who want to chase you down on the street to talk about Jesus just as much as the next guy. This thread, however, is about this very topic so it seemed as good a place as any to talk about my faith.

Finally, the idea of some people being "too stupid" to accept Christ is something that I'm glad you brought up. This is something that my firends and I have been talking at length about recently. (Now please bear with me as this might get a little thick but I'm getting to something.) Salvation is a gift from God that no person can attain. We are all sinners seperated from God by sin and we can't be anything but sinners. God offered us a way out of our lives of sin by sending His Son into the world as a perfect sacrifice to attone for the sins of man. That's why many people refer to Christians and "sinners saved by grace". I have no part in my salvation other than accepting it. I am not better, smarter, or anything else. I am simply a sinner saved by grace. Do I believe that there is one God in Heaven and that he is the only way to salvaton...yes. I would never say that someone who doesn't believe that is stupid. I didn't really believe that for a very long time. In the end, you really think that Christians are "too stupid" to see that no God exists. The difference is that you don't really have a stake in showing me the wonders of aetheism. Christians, on the other hand, believe what the Bible says and therefor want to show others the joy that they have found in Jesus. Nobody has to believe what we say or even listen, but if we really believe that Christ is the Way and the Truth and the Life then wouldn't it be incredibly selfish and unloving of us not to share that with others.

Think about it like this. If I believed that there was a bomb in the White House I would do everything in my power to let everyone there know what I knew. I would tell them even if they thought I was crazy. I would have to if I really belived it. If I didn't, and the bomb went off, then everyone would look to me and say "Why didn't you say something?" We believe that a day is coming when Christ will return and take those who had accepted him into Heaven. I want as many people as possible to come with me but it's a lot more than that. There is a real Joy in Christ that can't be found anywhere else. It's a joy that comes from knowing that you are never alone and that you are truly loved and truly forgiven by a great big God that created the Heavens and the Earth but yet is concerned with tiny, insignificant, little you. It comes from knowing that things here on Earth don't matter that much in the long run. It allows me to be joyous when I have to go to a family members funeral because I know that I will see them again and that they have simply gone on ahead of me. I just want to share that joy with as many people as I can in the hope that someone might be affected by it. I don't want to try to force anyone into believing the way that I do but I do want to show others what I have found in the hope that they might seek it too.

I don't know if that makes much sense or if any of it helps to further explain my point but I'm really enjoying the dialogue with you anyway. ;)

Ken Spriggs
09-30-2008, 10:06 AM
Religion and politics are 2 things we should ALL stay away from.
You see when you are talking to people....you never know what religion or what political stance they have....until you open that subject a little further.

Once you find out a good friend has opposite religious/educational/political views....do you view them different? Yes you do...

If I told each and everyone of you I don't believe in any god.....
half of you would think.....what an idiot
the other half will agree

Well.....I was beat by the nuns and priests just like my brothers....
Grammar school all the way up to high school.
Now some of you will no doubt think....that explains it all Ken
But over the years of being beat like a dog and having the issues in life I am having....one would begin to think....what the hell did i do? Pick on someone else.
BUT I can also look around and see people who are in much worse shape than me......and that also makes me wonder....what the hell did they do to deserve this?

Now one thought to ponder..........boy I hope the people that worship the elephant or a rat in india aren't right!!!!! We are all screwed!!


OK now on to politics.......anyone???? care to start that mess????
I am voting for.....um........Walt Disney
Yes his head might be frozen.....but he has a better vision than either of the jokers we are faced with.

Oh and just incase someone wants to match wits in the political arena
I.......have been known to support the bad guys....the republicans
So yes...I voted for Georgie Porgie pudding pie

And if you want to start on Iraq and all the other bs.....
Just step away from your keyboard and go paint some blood on something

UndeadProd
09-30-2008, 10:58 AM
The thing you have to remember is that, whatever your opinion, whatever you post online exists forever.

I have some definite political, spiritual, and social views that I rarely discuss on public forums. Why? Because, as an owner and representative of The ScareHouse, I have an obligation to make sure that the business makes as much $$ as possible.

Say, for example, I posted a message on here saying that "Anyone who votes for Sam Yeiblotz is a fool!" or something similar.

A group of Yeiblotz loyalists plan on bringing their group of 30 die-hard fans out to ScareHouse. One of them does a google search and finds a post by one of the ScareHouse owners condemming the Yeiblotz. Angrily, they decide to instead visit a different haunt and bam... I've just lost $500.

My cast and crew is made up of a wonderfully weird mix of people with radically different religions, lifestyles, sexual orientations, and political views ... and we all get along spectacularly well because everyone respects each other and their choices. In fact, I believe that it's that mix of contrasting backgrounds and opinions that makes our show so interesting.

I'm all for a healthy debate and conversation -- but that rarely happens when people start talking about politics and religion online. It quickly turns into a lot of heated stereotyping and name-calling... so I agree with Ken that it's a topic best left to other boards.

Phoenix
09-30-2008, 11:02 AM
your White House example is interesting as I actually have some experience with bomb warnings and its actually a pretty good example.

Sorry to disappoint you, but were you to call the White House and say a bomb was going to go off, nobody will say, thanks for the info, sorry, but I need hang up now and clear the building

When an individual calls the police or security services with a bomb warning they are expected to provide some evidence or qualification that they are not a crank.

Answers like it was in a vision from the Flying Spaghetti monster, the Easter Bunny left it or God told me are good news, as 99% of the time they are cranks... the other 1% are individuals who do know something and don't want to declare their real source of information, subsequent questioning of the individual is supposed to eliminate that 1% uncertainly.

Outside of the instant cranks the next stage is to establish what evidence there is and what the level of urgency is, known Terrorist organisations that like to give pre warning of bomb attacks are given code words to validate their warning, if the caller gives the correct codeword then its an instant evacuation.

This then leaves us with the doubtful group, if a bomb caller doesn't fall into the above two categories then a moderate alert is raised and the caller is further interrogated to establish the validity of their claim, and this involves the caller providing proof that they are genuine and have genuine concerns... "I have faith that this is true" is not considered a valid reason to shut down central government, however "I was on the bus and saw a person of xxx description praying and carrying a backpack that contained wires and bottles of smoky coloured liquid get off and enter the Whitehouse at 3:30" then you will immediately have security scrambling for the CCTV footage and thanking you for your assistance.

The point is that if you really want to save and convince people then the burden of proof is on you, and going round claiming visions from the Easter Bunny doesn't really get to clear the building.

BrainDonor13
09-30-2008, 07:21 PM
Your right this poll is to see who are Christians in the Haunt World/Indusrty. All of those who are other religions or if your a monkey swinging atheist sorry this is not about you. THIS THREAD IS ABOUT CHRISTIANS. You may want to start your own pole. This pole is like church if it dont pertain to you or you don't believe or your of some other fourm of religion thats fine just keep it out of this thread. Again its about Christians! Shane and its Our God Is A Loving God Shane This Time!

Shane, are you always this bitchy when you feel threatened? Get over yourself. Seriously. You sound like you're about 14.

This thread is for anyone who wants to post to it, just like any other post here. (And for the record, it's POLL, not pole. I prefer body parts butchered, not grammar.)

BrainDonor13
09-30-2008, 07:30 PM
Aw man, and I was gonna vote for Yeiblotz, too!

kpolley
09-30-2008, 10:00 PM
Phoenix,

you make a very common point and it's something I have heard before. Is the physical evidence that I can show you to say here, look I have God in this little box? No. It's called faith for a reason. Faith is believing in something that you can't necessarily see, touch, taste, etc. I would wager that we all believe in love. Can I put love in a box and show it to you? No. We all believe in love because we FEEL love and because we can see it's effects on and in our lives. The same is true of God. I believe in Him because I feel his presence and because I see His effects in and on my life. I could rattle off provable facts from the Bible or philisophical arguments for the existence of God but it all comes down to faith. There is no "smoking gun" to prove God.

As far as other faiths...I have studied some on the other major world faiths and the one major concept of Christianity that speaks to me is the idea of God reaching out to man. In all other major world religions the idea is to somehow do something to attain enlightenment or a "Heaven" of sorts. Christianity speaks to me because it says that none of us deserve Heaven but that God, in His infinite love and mercy, has offered us all a way to make things right. This just really makes sense to me that God would love me and want a relationship with me and actually reach out to me for that relationship even though I have sinned against Him. I believe that there is nothing that I can do to deserve Heaven but that God's grace allows me the chance to go none the less.

I think that we all have to be open minded. My faith is constantly changing and growing and it's because I am open to other people's views and ideas that challenge and strengthen my faith. I don't believe that I have all the answers...I don't think anyone does. I am simply one man doing my best to live each day in a way that would be pleasing to God.

It's simply a topic that I love to talk about. I think it's great that it has been brought up here and that a bunch of mature adults can talk and agree and disagree and do so calmly and respectfully. It will sputter out eventually and that's fine but before it does I just want to thank all of the aetheists and others who may disagree with me and other Christians but have been respectful and tolerant. Taloerance is something that almost seems like a dirty word to some people but I think we all need more of it. We may not all agree or approve of various choices or lifestyles but we can all tolerate each other.

Phoenix
09-30-2008, 11:03 PM
Yes you can show love, maybe not in a box, but you can isolate the chemical Oxytocin and show how the body reacts to it in a physical and psychological way, and you can demonstrate the production of Oxytocin when in the presence of one you love... Oxytocin is the smoking gun that proves love.

Jim Warfield
10-01-2008, 12:57 AM
Would tell it's students to not talk about religion or politics with the customer because of the danger of losing a customer.
I knew a very succesful businessman who constantly smiled and said, "Oh?"
and "Oh? I didn't know that." As his customers were bitching and reaming their neighbors a new one in public.
They all thought that he was taking their "side" in their inane arguements.
He probably never lost a customer doing this, he might have lost his mind but never a customer.
None of us has God in a box but you might find him in National Geographic magazines.
Some of their photos of micro-microscopic worlds all around us in blazing color astound and challenge anyone denying a master plan exists, in my opinioin.
Radical people make what we call "religion" obnoxious, this is not anyone's doing but theirs and should not threaten nor diminish the positive feelings anyone ever feels when happy with this world around us.

Haunting Copy
10-01-2008, 02:58 AM
As much as I am *dying* to dig into this topic again, alas, I am going to ask that we request Larry to delete this thread.

Don't worry, we can always take it back up after the season is over! :D

Larry has requested that we try to keep the boards positive, at least until the season is over. I'm willing to go with that.

But after that, Larry, I want a place to FIGHT! j/k

In haunting love,
Sarah

P.S. If you guys are interested, you can go to this thread to see what I'm talking about: http://www.hauntworld.com/haunted_house_forums/showthread.php?t=6109

kpolley
10-01-2008, 08:23 AM
So you believe that love is merely chemical reaction. That's a bit short sighted, I think. The chemical production is merely a symptom of love, not a cause. You don't love because you produced Oxytocin, you produced Oxytocin because you loved.

I look at the world around me and the amazing things within it and can't grasp the idea that it's all random chance. Your body is made of tiny little cells that perform specific little functions. They are made of even smaller components (ribosomes and vacuoles and all the rest). Those are made of even smaller atoms, which are made of electrons, neutrons, and protons. Now we even believe that quarks and leptons make up protons and neutrons. It's unbelieveable.

On the other hand, VY Canis Majoris, the largest star we have found to date, is about 78 billion times the size of Earth. Equally amazing on the other side of the spectrum.

My point is, I look at these things and see God's glory. I find it impossible to believe that these things are as they are by random chance.

If you want proof of God, the best thing I can tell you is to read the Bible with an open mind. Start in Matthew or John. Both good books. Belief in God is something that you have to find for yourself. It can't be given to us.

Sarah may be right that, for now, the topic might not be right for this forum but the cat's out of the bag now and if anybody wants to keep chatting privately about it PM me. Since I am one of the biggest posters on this thread I'll take it upon myself to make this my last message on the topic. It's been fun. I've enjoyed listening to everyone's opinions and talking over the things we don't all agree on. Good stuff.

DarkTikiEntertainment
10-31-2008, 02:59 PM
I've been a member of this forum since May, but I've only really been "haunting" (had to say it!) these forums regularly for a few months now. All I can say is that you guys definitely don't hold back! :D Politics, religion, class wars ("Who's haunt nets over $250,000?"), rants against individuals, rants against businesses, ongoing feuds...

As for me, I'm just in a really good mood today. After all, it is Halloween!

Jim Warfield
11-01-2008, 03:21 AM
Of course the inter net provides secret disguises names and personalitys, thereby giving courage to the not -so-brave.
How many would also be saying those same things if they were taken to task right after they said it?

Lord Barnabus
11-01-2008, 01:13 PM
Wow....I picked a great time to come back to HauntWorld after some much needed time off.

I chose not to vote on this poll as there are three things I always preach not to discuss with people, unless I am talking to certain people in person.

1- Religion

2- Politics

3- Money (how much a person makes compared to others)

actiondeath
11-01-2008, 07:30 PM
WOW...

If it comes up in conversation, I admit to being a christian, but in the past few years, it's been tough. It's difficult to find a christian (who openly declares their faith frequently) who isn't a complete hypocrite. Say one thing (when god is watching), and then do another. I've seen it a million+ times.

I have always, and will always try my best to be a good person and do the right thing, in hopes of pleasing god. I'm just not sure I want to be grouped in with this crowd anymore. In college, I was challenged by a seemingly angry "christian" who told me that I was going to hell for masturbating. More recently, I watched a group "christians" shout ridiculous accusations at a passing car because it had an Obama sticker on it. Just two nights ago, my family was accosted by a couple of "christians" for trick-or-treating.

I didn't vote in the poll. I'mma be a closet christian, but while we're on the subject, anyone ever heard of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? If you search it, read the wiki on it first. Otherwise it may not make a lot of sense. I think it's hilarious.

Lord Barnabus
11-01-2008, 09:46 PM
Oh what the hell...

Actiondeath brings a good point here which I will dive into even further.

I grew up in a Catholic family. I went to Catholic school from kindergarten through fourth grade, then onto a private school for fifth and sixth, then back to Catholic school for seventh through graduation. During that time in Catholic school we had mass every morning in elementary school, and once a week in high school. We cannot forget about being forced to church every Sunday as well. In the ninth grade I joined a group called "Youth For Christ", who happed to have a group called "Campus Life". I got heavy into religion from 9th grade through a couple years after graduation. I went to other churches seeking the place to be. I have an uncle who is a Catholic priest. When I was attending youth group at a Baptist church, my uncle told me it was wrong of me, and the Catholic church is the only way to go. Yet in the Bible there is a verse which I do not remember word for word, but it goes something like this, "As a man of God, you may not tell people who to worship". So what is the difference between Gods of different religions?

All of my statements I make are not intended to piss anyone off for any reason; They are just quite simply my opinions. Do not take these to heart. If you do not agree with anything I say, just blow it off.

Like I said, I tried various religions looking for the one that I believed in the most. The problem is, I cannot find that one religion that fits me. Each religion has its pros and cons, in other words, each has beliefs I do not personally believe in, or has disbeliefs that I do believe in. One such church does not believe in dancing. They view dancing as a sin, unless it is joyful dancing for the Lord. Now being that I am a mobile disc jockey, I do depend on people to hire me to play music for their guests to dance and have a good time. Another church I tried says it is a sin for their members to drink alcohol...Yet I see their members in the local bars I play at, and they are definately drinking alcohol, not a Shirley Temple. Another church said there are three different levels of heaven, not one heaven that all good people go to. What about the one church that says only 144-thousand people go to heaven. How do I know they don't already have that heaven full? There are more people populating North Dakota than that.

I did however find the perfect religious place for me. I call it doing the right thing. I admit I do believe in God, however, to what extent I am not sure about any longer. I do not believe in organized religion, since there are those things that each one has that I may not agree with. I live my life the best I can. I try to do what I think is right. There are times that I do pray. I only go to church for weddings, funerals, special occasions, and my most favorite is on Christmas (I love listening to the organ and the choir).

I've had things happen in my life where my opinions have changed over the years. I have also talked to and listened to religious people of different faiths tell me about why their religion/faith/church is the only way to go. If all of these faiths differ so much, than the question arrises about if there really is a God. And how about this Bible that was written so long ago. Who put the Bible together. These various writers of the Bible did not write everything down from day to day; They remebered it years later. And once again I ask, who put this book together?



This is why I don't like talking about certain topics. I guarantee this post will get some replies and mis-interpretations, so I'll end this now.

Once again, these are just my opinions.

Uptown Haunts
11-01-2008, 10:16 PM
Practicing Catholic here. I'm gonna keep practicing 'til I get it right.

actiondeath
11-01-2008, 11:50 PM
I did however find the perfect religious place for me. I call it doing the right thing. I admit I do believe in God, however, to what extent I am not sure about any longer. I do not believe in organized religion, since there are those things that each one has that I may not agree with. I live my life the best I can. I try to do what I think is right. There are times that I do pray. I only go to church for weddings, funerals, special occasions, and my most favorite is on Christmas (I love listening to the organ and the choir).

I've had things happen in my life where my opinions have changed over the years. I have also talked to and listened to religious people of different faiths tell me about why their religion/faith/church is the only way to go. If all of these faiths differ so much, than the question arrises about if there really is a God. And how about this Bible that was written so long ago. Who put the Bible together. These various writers of the Bible did not write everything down from day to day; They remebered it years later. And once again I ask, who put this book together?

Agreed 110%. And why do most christians say that the physical church is the only appropriate place to worship. Why can I not love and thank god when I step outside during the first warm-ish day of spring. Or anytime my family and I travel by car and arrive safely at our destination.

One of my BIGGEST pet peeves and still the #1 reason I don't attend church regularly is the collection. I understand that churches cannot operate without funds, but keep the guilt trip out of the service. Based on family size and income, the government would classify me as poverty stricken. I would say lower middle class, because we are modest people, but the point is, if I could give, I would.

People have told me that I am a "Lazy Christian" or a "Fair Weather Christian" or simply not a christian at all because I rarely attend church and I do not donate when I do go. I feel like the church asks a lot of people considering the state of the world. It's like it's not enough to put your life in the hands of something that cannot be seen and to be a good person and to do-unto-others and to BELIEVE... Faith is faith.

There are all kinds of arguments on the subject of the bible. I don't wanna go near that discussion.

Lord Barnabus
11-03-2008, 05:02 PM
I do recall the Bible having a part about where two or more are gathered, I am there. This has been translated for years that you do not have to gather at a church, or religious place of worship.

I've been on a few mission trips before and learned many things along the way. I went to San Buenaventura, Chihuahua Mexico, where we helped to build a bible college, cleaned up and painted a childrens playground, and many other things. I've also gone on a trip somewhere in Texas in a large city where we went into the projects area to help clean up a neighborhood and plant flower gardens. We heard plenty of gunshots and even found a kid about eight years old with a loaded pistol. I went on a trip to our nations capitol, Washington DC, to attend a major youth conference.

On one of these trips I recall making a comment to a girl on the trip about God being a female. She came unglued cause she claims God is most definately a male. But how do we know what God is? I always thought God was everything- male, female, white, black, purple, etc.


And about the church collections....A guy I know who is a business owner, an EMT, and a family man. His family always goes to church for as long as I have known him. One day, he missed church because of family matters. The following week when they went to their church (which they have been members of for well over twenty years), the preacher talked to them after services and had the odacity to say that they were not at services last week and still need to pay their ten percent into the collection plate. Yep...The nerve of the preacher bringing that up. Needless to say, the family switched to a different church after more than twenty years.

Jim Warfield
11-03-2008, 08:06 PM
A radio show a few days ago was saying that Jesus was a Communist.
He was trying to redistribute the wealth, make those with boo-coo bucks help the poor and miserable, just because people should not needlessly suffer.
Remember Jesus in the temple tipping over the money lender's tables?
I had an ex who once told me she wanted to be just like Jesus!
"So you want to starve wandering in the desert wearing only a bedsheet?And how about that crucify -thing?"
Life was simpler in those days and lifestyle choices were few.

kpolley
11-11-2008, 11:06 AM
I can't help but agree with most of what's being said here. Forhe longest time I have said that Christians are their own worst enemies. We do more to hurt our own cause than anyone else. All I can say is please don't judge Christ by those who are called by his name. We can never do his message justice the way that the actual scriptures can. Christians are just people trying to follow Christ's example and his teachings. We screw it up all the time because we're human. Some go above and beyond the normal to make fools of themselves (Westboro Baptist) but for the most part we are simply believers trying to live out our faith. If you really want to understand our motivation and the awesome love that God showed through the sacrifice of His Son you have to go to the Bible.

I get so tired of hearing the same neative thigns said about my faith...and it's not because non-Christians keep bringing them up but because Christians keep doing the same stupid things. All Christians need to remember that we are called to live like Christ. Sure, we'll mess up sometimes (I know I do) but calling yourself by His name is not something that should be taken lightly. If you say you are a Christian then you need to live as a Christian. I'd bet that Christians turn more people away from Christ then any non-Christians do. We need to think about that. We need to be Christ's hands and feet.

Jim Warfield
11-14-2008, 09:58 PM
Day in, day out, treat people right,
Sleep soundly at night
A quiet soul
No fight.

KroneDaddy
11-15-2008, 11:29 AM
Christian here. I have gotten all my talents from God. I am truly blessed. I will never deny it and, if need be, I'll shout it from the rooftops.

monkey swinging?

I had a hooker ask me if my "Monkey needed Swinging" I had no idea what she meant.

As for the drunk guy at the party. He should wait til he sobers up before apologizing. BTW we do live in the greatest country in the world.

Freedom of speech baby! I have to live with a lot a crap that annoys me to enjoy freedom of speech.

Timmy
KroneDaddy

SomeThingInTheIce
11-27-2008, 06:58 PM
6 pages of this aghhhh

Jim Warfield
11-27-2008, 10:12 PM
But admit it, you really liked the part when the nazi guy opened up the box and that ray of light melted his face off didn't you!? Ain't those old stories just incredibly entertaining! Somebody should make a movie about them!

"Gimme that old time religion!"

MDKing
11-28-2008, 08:09 AM
Phoenix you said
"Id too would like to thank Shane for his apology accepting people different beliefs and values is an increasingly important quality in the modern world where there is currently so much death and turmoil over intolerance."

Being British yourself, would it be hard for you to justify the intolerances of Protestants towards Catholics the past 500 years? When do you think the next time we'll see a Catholic be included in the UK's Monarchy? NEVER! At the whim of a selfish madman, King Henry, Protestants turned on what they were for more than a thousand years prior and those intolerances followed both religions over here to America, ask the Irish, Poles, and other Catholic immigrants who wanted to find a job and support their families but "needed not apply" for those jobs for obvious reasons.

I think you'll find that Americans are a lot more tolerant than other countries give us credit for...

Twin Locusts
06-24-2009, 08:06 PM
I live in the buckle of the Bible Belt; we have vast populations of hot and heavy in your face Christians, also a lot of Catholics, and Jews. It's a mid-major city so we have a nice spectrum.

I'm a Christian, dare I say a 'quiet Christian'. I have faith, it's very personal and I tend to keep it that way, lest I wade into some conjecture ridden pissing contest thread. I tend to be a bit Libertarian about it, you do your thing I'll do mine. Similar to the legal maxim, 'you may swing your fists about wildy for hours on end; you will hear not a word from me, however, when your fist touches my nose I will respond.'

To me faith and religion are dotted line connected, not hard wired. Growing up in the Real South taught me that when you meet the overtly, proudly, loudly religious hide your wallet.

Also, I can do a mean televangelist.

...mean zombie, mean zombie televangelist?? No we're making progress.

Post Script:

I know Sam Yeiblotz, I worked with Sam Yeiblotz, hell I dated Sam Yeiblotz; You sir are no Sam Yeiblotz. She can work a mean zombie teleprompter believe you me.

shredman
06-24-2009, 08:16 PM
Wow this post was made a long time ago and is still at the top of the forum, definately my most popular post!

Thanks for your input!

-Zack Cooper
www.shreddershalloweenscreampark.com

OdetteDespairr
06-26-2009, 01:34 PM
I am a christian and proud of it. I try to be an example to the other young women haunters around me and try to portray it in my attitude and actions, i hope that it is noticible.

Im very glad though to share this industry with christians and non christians alike. Im just glad that this industry is such a positive one. And im glad that this industry gives a positive outlet to so many kids and younger people who really love it.

Jackie
Rotting Flesh Radio
Haunt Hottie

Fear Unfathomed
06-26-2009, 02:42 PM
I, too, am Christian and am not ashamed to say it. God is THE MOST important thing to me. However, I, like many other Christians I'm sure, catch myself far too often not showing the world how important He really is to me. It's a daily struggle to do so. With every passing moment and every word I speak, there is always a choice. It's a work in progress to act in ways that please God 100% of the time but there is nothing in this world that can match the joy, peace, love, and mercy that He gives me. It's indescribable.

freak 'n' stein
06-26-2009, 05:22 PM
I'm Christian!!

lurker
06-26-2009, 07:20 PM
I'm druish!

Badger
06-26-2009, 08:02 PM
I'm an ordained minister (for real)...

FEAR ASYLUM
06-26-2009, 09:21 PM
you better belive i am christian and am proud of it although i do not shove it down peoples throats i am a beliver and live my life for Christ every day. I am not over come by evil but i over come evil with good and live my life helping others when i can and leading by example ... Michael

StackerSteve
06-27-2009, 08:25 AM
I couldn't be further from Christianity

Blessed be!!:D

Matt Marich
06-27-2009, 04:56 PM
ROMAN CATHOLIC and Proud

" Domino Nabisco my father plays dominoes better than your father does, OOREEE-OOO"

Haunted Farm
06-30-2009, 04:58 PM
HEY JC didn't know you were online

jack
07-10-2009, 08:47 AM
If any of this sounds nasty, please know that this is not my intent, I seek to be explanatory, not incendiary.

I am not a Christian....some have said I am actively anti-Christian...and that has some truth to it. I am no fan of any of the permutations of the Cult of the One God and lament the damage that it has done to the world.

I try to have respect, to not be incensed--and I usually succeed. It is not hard to have a live and let live attitude. The One God himself was welcomed among the gods people worshipped until it was understood that worship of Him included denying the gods that had been followed since the dawn of civilization--if not the dawn of Man.

So accepting the existence of another god and system of worship is not a problem.

What IS a problem is when you insist that the ideas you follow and the tenets of the god you worship apply to me...


The statement I made about Christ dying for all mans sins is not intended to offend anyone. The point is, the Bible tells us that Christ died for even those that don't choose him. That is ultimate love. Would you die for someone that hated you? I don't know if I could do that. If Christ only died for those that believe in Him then that would be conditional love.

Every pre-Christian faith I've read up on omits this whole 'Christ-died-for-our-sins' thing. Probably because they're 'pre-Christian'. So, for those people, and those faiths, Christ didn't die for their sins.

But they understood the concept.

Sacrifice, particularly human sacrifice, was, and is, a well known concept. And it was often used to expiate some wrong against the gods or to send someone to intercede with the gods on behalf of those doing the sacrificing.

And the benefit went to the whole community--even those who were skeptical.

Sound familiar?

But Christianity altered the last bit. You only get one benefit(salvation), and you only get it if you deny the gods you've been worshipping for millenia in favor of the god Christ was sent to appease.

At the time Christianity was forming the practice was going away. The idea that one could take responsiblity for the wrongdoings of another was falling out of favor--a more personal view of responsibility was forming. So 'scapegoat' sacrifice was waning.

But, at one time, it was rampant. Prometheus is a good example of a similar situation--he gave Man the secret of making and using fire--and in return is bound and tortured forever. Prometheus takes the wrath of the gods for us, just as Christ took the wrath of the Father.

Where Christians offend is when they insist that their beliefs supercede those of others. They may not be trying to be rude, they may actually want to save our immortal souls. They just want us to listen to their 'good news'.

But they do not like the reverse. They do not like it when I ask if they will allow me to tell them MY 'good news'. And they behave as if persecuted when I point out that I already KNOW their good news, that I am inundated with it every day--because THEIR faith sucessfully destroyed nearly every trace of all the others.

And I do not hide or feel shame for that fact--that we, today, who try to know the old gods are working with scraps.

Nor do I expect concession--we lost. To the victor go the spoils.

All I ask is that you understand. When you insist that YOUR god died for MY sins, you are making an adversarial statement. In the eyes of my gods, 'sin' is extremely hard to commit, I am, in their eyes, 'sinless'. In fact, the only 'sin' I can easily commit is the one that your faith is predicated on--that I reject them.

So please, I give you your God, His Son, and the salvation He promises, please allow me my gods, and all that they are.

MDKing
07-10-2009, 10:39 AM
Jack,
I understand your point about the Gods we were worshiping for milenia, but did you ever hear of those Gods performing miracles in front of hundreds or more? Or raising from the dead? Healing the sick and giving site to the blind? No, you don't. Jesus came when it was deemed the right time in the world's history, it was the dawn of a more modern, progressive world, and start of a global community that has contunied to evolve on to this day.
Also you say religion or monotheism has done damage to the world, and to an extent that's true but look at the good it has done, it far outweighs that of the bad. As humans we will never be perfect and evil is almost as omnipresent as good but without religion and without the higher power and moral standards most of us try to live by the world would be in chaos.
We try to avoid doing evil because we know we will be punished, and we know its wrong and that fundamental belief alone is grounded in religion. Sadly, humans will always pervert things and corrupt good intentions, but we know we have it to answer for later and more often with most people they refrain from doing evil day to day.

I respect that you have your beliefs. I have known quite a few people who believed as you did but when (God forbid) disaster strikes, or sickness takes hold and in times of deepening dispair, quite often the Pagan Gods of the past or others deities are the ones forsaken for the same One God you profess not to have known prior.

Allan

graystone
07-11-2009, 07:24 AM
Amen Brother!

Jack what flavor of nut are you? Shane and its no thanks I am allergic to nuts they make me sick! Shane this time.

Nightgore
07-11-2009, 07:43 AM
Shane,

A few things...

I'm not online 24/7... my computer is. It never shuts off, the internet window never closes and I leave HW.com logged on the whole time. So even though it may look like I'm here ALL THE TIME, I'm not. I'm at our building Monday-Friday, right at 8am. I normally don't get home until 9pm. I'll occasionaly check HW.com from my phone, but don't post anything until I'm home. It's really hard to "type" from a phone! Hahaaha..

As for the religion... your exactly the type of person/people I'm talking about. What you believe is yours to believe, I have mine. So stop trying to push what you think on to me. This is how my ENTIRE family operates and will continue.

Also, for the last time... there was a million dollars involved. This was to start TWO companies and a haunt; one being a food/catering company which took up most of the money. Our building, used to be an old distillery and then was remodeled two years ago into it's current state. It's probably the best building for a haunt. 50K sq. ft. of open warehouse space, parking, and right downtown next to the arena and convention centers. So, until you show up at our door to check it out, you really can't say anything about it. I've never been to Graystone Manor, plan to someday, so I can't comment on your location or the haunt itself.

The props, Shane, I've seen pics of your place and you've got the same stuff that Halloween Express sells. The only "retail" based props we have is a few foam halves from Morbid Industries. So unless your "retail" store sells Unit70 animated werewolves... then I don't see a point to your comment?

I always laugh when people call me "that 21 year old haunter"... it funny! Just cause I'm not 50 doesn't mean I don't know what I'm doing. We've faced all the typicals... electricians, fire marshalls, building inspectors, zoning, realitors, shitty vendors... etc. etc. Nothing yet has haulted us or put me into a fit because it's all NOTHING I've never faced before. Also, I never got my birthday card from you Shane! I'm now 22! ;)

You also have my phone number, wanna talk... just call!

-Tyler, and it's scientific christian, first year PRO haunter with SEVERAL (10) years of haunting Tyler this time!

Matt Marich
07-11-2009, 07:55 AM
Jack your post was excellent. I believe we all practice in our own way, but to many people that get lost in their religion don't practice what they preach. The most common mistake is they don't adhere to the Bible, " Christ hated the self righteous man."

Stay clear of religous factions that have water slides as a perk...,

If more organized beliefs could follow the message of Mother Teresa, born into poverty, worked for years in poverty herself to feed the poor, and died in poverty. She lived it, and believed it, but this is a message for everyone to follow, not just a Slavic Nun.

My nuns name was "Sister Mary Beat you up", but I still liked her...,

Now were is the gallon of Kip's fake blood, hmmmmm.,

Matt

graystone
07-11-2009, 08:45 AM
I'm a Christian, but fuck I'm not religious! Actually, I HATE religious people... I HATE those outspoken, loud, over-sensitive biggited FUCKS that try to push their religion onto other people!

I believe that many religions/gods are just different stories or beliefs of the same god. I also believe that sin is extremely hard to commit and not as "easy" as ALOT of religious here in the U.S. might have you believe.

Shit, look at Moses... how many people did he murder by using the "power of god"? $20 says he's not in hell!

You know what else I hate, people who pick and choose what to follow and believe in the Bible. Either live by and follow the whole damn thing, or none of it. For instance, the Bible says to 'not mix the races'... meaning black and white people should not marry... and that little quote about gay marriage that Christian folk like to grasp too to argue god's rule against it.

Well, if that's the case then I should be able to beat my wife and sell my daughters into slavery right? I mean, that's what the bible says! So who am I to choose what I follow and what I ignore? Also, I do believe that the Bible is a giant fictional book... it's really just a set of stories to help the reader keep faith and believe in the word of god. I honestly don't believe much of the stories in the bible, I mean... science has alrea.... nevermind, not going there.

But I will say that I am a.... Scientific Christian!

Also, I hate CHURCH!!! NOWHERE in the bible does it say that on Sundays and every other Wednesday do I need to go to a large building with people I don't like or don't know, pray, and give money because God is broke! ... NOWHERE!

So, I worship and pray at home with family. On our own time and in our own way, I think that's what the bible meant by this!

I do believe that if Jesus was to come back, he would laugh in shock over the way religion has played out since he's been gone and then would destroy us all because, after all, according to the bible... it's so damn hard for ANYONE to get into heaven these days! ;)

-Tyler... Scientific Christian!

Tyler you say your a "Christian" but the first word out of your mouth is "fuck" then you say you "hate" Christians. You say sin is hard to commit dude you either know its right or wrong. Is it hard for a person to rob a bank, kill someone, rape them, molest them? Yeah its damn hard when the other person is fighting back!

Now you hate church or as some call it the house of God. You say your a Scientific Christian. Actually what your saying is your to damn lazy to get your fat, lazy know it all ass up off the computer and out of the house and in the church building better known as the house of God.

I see where your going with your comments and from here own out I have lost all respect for you. Your comments were distasteful and not welcome here this was a thread about whos christians something that you are surely not! Actually I am gonna say what many here have talked about.

Now that you have insulted Christ I shall give you a few. I have never known or met a 21 year old person that knows as much as you think you know. You tell the the most seasoned haunters here how and why they should do something. I have just recently noticed you have moved into a location that looks like the front of an old auto parts store. You posted pictures of props that I sell in my stores to my retail customers, yet this is a million dollar haunt? I have never came on line and you not be here. I am sure your partner would welcome you to get up off your know it all ass and stop acting like you invented the wheel and offer your back ,hands and sweat in helping build what you call "Kentucky's Largest Haunt".

How can you worship with your family? your here 24/7 you cant even help your partner in your haunt much less worship at home BECAUSE YOUR ALWAYS HERE!! If your were as smart as you think you are you would pick up that Bible and pray to God that he gives your business partner and yourself good weather, lots of people, and a safe enviorment to help make your event successful.

TRUST ME TYLER YOUR EVENT WILL BE SUCCESSFUL NOT BECAUSE OF YOU ! IT WILL BE SUCCESSFUL BECAUSE OF AND THROUGH THE GOOD GRACES OF OUR ALMIGHTY GOD! Let me add something the Bible was wrote without your input! Tyler sounds like yo me you need to take off that big orange shirt and show us all your hairy back then we can call you the stupid ape that you are! Guys I am sorry but hes insulted me, hes insulted the Bible and hes insulted the person who has made me what I am today and thats God! I am what I am because of him. Yes this post is full of insult, foul mouth, and haterd from me something I am sure God is not proud of me for. I will talk to him about that. But when I love someone as I do God I get offensive! He has basically said the Bible is a lie and just a well written book, hes even made mention that a few so called scientist have proven there is no God! Actually thats never been proven. Tyler when your building is hit by a natural disaster, flood, tornado, hurricane ect then I am sure your insurance person will tell you it was an act of God! Then you might want to say to him I am sorry for my anti beliefs! Our American currency does not say 'In God's We Trust'' it says '' In God We Trust! Tyler do you know the difference in the Old and New Testament? From your post I have to say that the "Know it all Tyler" does not know near as much as he thinks he does!!!

Tyler I hope your partner and crew do not feel as you do. If they are smart they will stay away from you because God will surly strike you dead soon! Tyler the good thing about God as you can talk to him and ask for forgiveness! I might add I said God not ' Gods" I can go on but you got my point! Shane and its I am just discusted at this so called KNOW IT ALL! Shane this time!

P.S. Graystone is not Alabama Largets anything other than the fact that its owner has the Largest heart when it comes to God!

MDKing
07-11-2009, 09:07 AM
Amen Brother!

Jack what flavor of nut are you? Shane and its no thanks I am allergic to nuts they make me sick! Shane this time.



Thanks Shane!

Allan

graystone
07-12-2009, 11:39 AM
Tyler show me one picture of my place and show me 1 piece that came from Halloween express, Spencers, Wal-mart or whatever on a retail line and I will pay for your million dollar Haunt! Better yet ask Ben Armstrong, Paul Johnson, Greg & Christina Allen of Fearfest who was just here last night and they all will assure you your information is like it always is passed on by someone else.

Better yet big boy put your money where your mouth is. I will pay to have you and your crew down to my haunt and let you go through it. If you can find any of what you have mentioned you have a free trip! If you don't you must pay for my crews trip to TransWorld this coming 2010 season. Oh yes please come unannounced as I would not want to be accused of hiding something from you. Is it a deal? can you prove what you are saying? I am game!

Your shot to discredit my haunt has fallen short! Shane and its Game on young man! Shane this time!

Nightgore
07-12-2009, 12:52 PM
Shane,

I don't have to ask anybody... I know. I'm going to be the adult here and not stoop to your games and generalized bullshit. You know your more than welcome to come up to KY and see the haunt and as I've said, you have my number, call me if you want to talk. PM me if you don't have it! ;)

-Tyler

graystone
07-12-2009, 01:53 PM
Your credit here is boarder line at best. How do you know Tyler? Explain to me how you know whats in my attraction? Your looking like a fool right now and Tyler I am a big boy and I am a vocal boy. If your gonna make attacks you sure as hell better have your guns pulled with me. My biggest pet peeve and anyone that knows me will tell you when you make me out to be a liar when I am telling the truth I AM RELENTLESS. Shall we name names? I don't think thats necessary do you?

You say you don't have to ask anyone again I will ask you how do you know? When you have never attended! So when Ben tells you your remarks are untrue you going to call him a lie? What about Paul, Greg to name a few I guess they are going to lie to. Do you think for 1 minute Larry would put a haunt in his magazine that was made up of retail props? Your right Tyler you are Kentuckys biggest your Kentucky's biggest bull shitter! Just do me a favor take your "we come from monkeys attitude" and theres " no God thats been proven by scientist" attatude and shove them! Shane and its you better shove it before I do it for you! SHANE THIS TIME!

oakhillshaunterTHEFEAR
07-12-2009, 01:55 PM
God I missed you guys and these forums! Good to see you are all still arguing and that shane hasn't changed his sign off. Its cool to see the progress of Tyler's gig. And me well I've been working on setting shit up. Shane is right you can't stay on these forums and expect to get anything done. These forums are just a tool for networking not getting work done. So I'm back just to advertise my business and offer my services not stir anything up. This is just a disclaimer anyone here can say whatever they want to me I don't care I just want to do some haunting.

graystone
07-12-2009, 01:59 PM
Good to see you. Start a thread on your progress and whats going on with you! Shane and its looking forward to hearing from you! Shane this time.

Smiley
07-12-2009, 03:18 PM
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/9382/screamq.jpg

N2SPOOKINU
07-12-2009, 04:04 PM
I wanted to stay out of this conversation but I have to voice my opinion about Graystone Manor so here goes.....

I didnt see a single thing from any retail store ANYWHERE in this HUGE COMPLEX! The detail in this haunt is amazingly real and it blew us away! We saw nothing but actual REAL vintage morgue and hospital tables and equipment. I even commented on the fact that EVERYTHING had a proper place and the sets looked so believable.

Retail stores dont make enough products to fill this monster haunt not to mention the quality of the scenic designs and detail.

Dr.Graystone (Jeff) was nice enough to take us back out there for a second look this morning because you cant grasp the vastness of this place at nite.(THANKS AGAIN JEFF)

From what I have seen there is no need to purchase anything from a retail store because of the MANY storage buildings full of props around the place. All the things in storage are real vintage/antiques of which I would give my right arm to own. ( I'm left handed lmao). The guys that build this haunt should hold their heads high and be proud of what they have created in such a short time.

Graystone Manor is awsome the crew is some of the best guys you will ever meet and I hate to see haunters talking bad about haunters and bashing haunts. We are all here for the same purpose..... To do what we love so much and thats build and run haunted houses that entertain our customers.

I wish I had the time to travel to Lexington to visit the Screampark but out plans prevented us from doing so. All I can say is WOW about Graystone and we are SO glad we had the opportunity to visit them this year!
Thanks again
Greg and Christina
Fearfest

MDKing
07-12-2009, 04:16 PM
Shane,

I didnt exactly agree or like much if anything Tyler said, but he seems like a bright guy who should have a great future in this industry. His first year show looks phenominal from what I can see but its hard to judge someone from their first show... Religion aside, he's on a path to be a successful haunter I believe.

Allan

graystone
07-12-2009, 04:25 PM
I its cool. Like I said when I see that the God who made me what I am today and has given me everything in life I ever wanted is what I consider attacked I attack back! But thanks for your comment and it is taken from you with respect.

Greg Thanks. I talk about this in HauntWorld how I have searched high and low to find the real deal when it comes to furnishing my attraction. Again THANKS for the kind words. Shane and its with out God I am nothing! Shane this time.

MDKing
07-12-2009, 04:32 PM
I agree with what you said I share the same beliefs as you do. In my opinion its great to see haunters have passion and strong faith, as long as its a positive faith.

Allan

Fear Unfathomed
07-12-2009, 09:41 PM
I'm behind you 110% Shane! I am standing right there next to you.
Press on...
-One of your sisters in Christ

graystone
07-13-2009, 06:58 AM
Thats great! Maybe we can go buy some bananas and feed the apes together! Shane and its I know where I came from and its not a monkey! Shane this time!

jack
07-13-2009, 07:34 AM
Allan, I really don't want to hurt your feelings, but the miracle in the Bible are not only present in older faiths--often the miracles in the Bible are simply reworkings of those older tales.

You don't even have your own holidays. At 'Christmas' people celebrated the birth/rebirth of the sun--and Easter, the biggest celebration in the Christian year....well...they didn't even change the original pagan name of the holiday--the Resurrection was just tacked on.

And Halloween....the reason we're all here...is wholly a pagan holiday. The church incorporated it because, like Christmas, they couldn't stop people from celebrating it.

And, let us all be honest. The period in which Christianity spread throughout the Western World has a name--the Dark Age. Why? If it was good--why do we refer to that period in such a manner?

Also, I have to say that I do not call on your god during times of crisis--my gods are sufficient. Some may, and that is for them to live with. But I don't.

Shane, I am an open and vocal follower of the gods that all men knew before the advent of Judeo-Christo-Muhammedism. I smile and gladly accept the psuedofaith of those Christians whose hunger for the old ways manifests itself in a love for that day when the walls between the worlds are at their thinnest.

That's the kind of nut I am.

And you're the kind of nut who believes in the guy who came out of his grave after three days, the guy who said that eating human flesh and drinking human blood would be the greatest remembrance of Him....you're in a good proffession, no? We all like zombies here.

Oh, I'm also the kind of nut who won't casually throw that kind of thing in your face--and the kind of nut who goes a bit crazy each year when the 'War on Christmas' erupts(if you can't say Merry Christmas to me when I'm buying Christmas presents and decorations--then you probably don't need my money)

I DO get crazy about this.

Once, I had it out with a radio/TV host who was making fun of the fact that Arlington Cemetary was now allowing pagan sybols on the graves of our fallen--the host had all sorts of nasty comments about the various faiths of these people. And this was done while simultaneously professing respect for our troops and our fallen--apparently, if you don't bow down before the right god YOUR sacrifice can be mocked.

Jack, and it's 'you worship your god and I'll worship mine' Jack this time

MDKing
07-13-2009, 08:42 AM
Jack,

Brush up on your history, the Dark Ages were called the dark ages because it was after the fall of the Roman Empire in the west. Also, the Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity in the year 312 and so did all of the empire, which was long before the start of the DarkAges.


Also, Christianity does not say to "eat human flesh" and drink human blood. It's bread and wine, which is symbolic for the body and blood of Christ, the giver of life.


Allan

graystone
07-13-2009, 08:51 AM
If I understand your post at least you worship some kind of God I take it? Thats better ( I guess) than people being pulled from a monkeys butt! To me an Atheist is just wasted space. I mean why in the world would a person go through life's many dissapointments and up's and downs of loosing loved ones ect only to die knowing thats it. Why these people don't just put a gun to their head and end it I will never know.

But again this thread was started to see who was Christians and not a thread of whos a Atheist or who believes in other Gods. If your not a Christian then you don't either believe in God or your not religous. So really to talk anything other than that you or anyone else should start a thread on your beliefs.

Allen you are exactly correct!

Shane and its take it to another thread and debate on your beliefs! Shane this time.

BarbieHaunt
07-13-2009, 10:12 AM
If I understand your post at least you worship some kind of God I take it? Thats better ( I guess) than people being pulled from a monkeys butt! To me an Atheist is just wasted space. I mean why in the world would a person go through life's many dissapointments and up's and downs of loosing loved ones ect only to die knowing thats it. Why these people don't just put a gun to their head and end it I will never know.

But again this thread was started to see who was Christians and not a thread of whos a Atheist or who believes in other Gods. If your not a Christian then you don't either believe in God or your not religous. So really to talk anything other than that you or anyone else should start a thread on your beliefs.

Allen you are exactly correct!

Shane and its take it to another thread and debate on your beliefs! Shane this time.



The right thing for me to do is to say I Am Sorry if I offended anyone here. My emotions get the best of me most of the time. And as a believer in God and his powers I ask that you forgive me. I will not judge you I will let my God take that up between you and him. Shane and its I am truly sorry Shane this time.


I believe that this thread is for everyone to discuss whether or not they are a Christian, not just to agree that they are one. By responding as you do, you are making Christians look bad. Is that your intention? I doubt it.

You continue to be offensive on this thread, something I believe a true Christian would not do. What is up with you that you cannot accept others who have beliefs that differ from yours? You have apologized at least once on this thread already (see second quote above), and I believe that you should stop and think before you type. Non-Christians, Atheists and people of all religious beliefs, deserve our respect and prayers too.

graystone
07-13-2009, 11:07 AM
Somebody said that if you polled to see how many people here were Christians you would be surprised. I am just curious to see how this turns out. I will be the first to say, yes i am a christian

Where in the very first post do you see Shread asking what religion if any are you? You are incorrect this thread is about Christians and if you don't believe in God or you believe in something else then YOUR NOT A CHRISTIAN! Again the quesion is how many here are Christians and if you believe in anything else other than God then this post does not pertain to you. Please don't try to add to the origional question. If you want other religous views then start a thread on that.

Your right I am very vocal here and when you insult my religion or come on a thread thats about Christians yes your going to be attacked by me. You see I love God and when you love someone you fight for them! Actually something were supposed to do as brother's and sisters in Christ. Now don't come back and say now your God wants you to fight! You know what I mean so don't try to play my words just as you have tried to play on the words of the origional post.

The only conversation here should be amoung Christians and their faith in God. If you don't believe in God or think we came from monkeys or we all arrived on a space ship then start a thread on what you believe. Shane and its pretty clear to me! Shane this time.

Let me add this if your not Christian just vote on the poll and move on. Thats all thats really required of you if your not. If you are and want to talk about God then this is the thread to do it on. PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

BarbieHaunt
07-13-2009, 11:18 AM
Where in the very first post do you see Shread asking what religion if any are you? You are incorrect this thread is about Christians and if you don't believe in God or you believe in something else then YOUR NOT A CHRISTIAN! Again the quesion is how many here are Christians and if you believe in anything else other than God then this post does not pertain to you. Please don't try to add to the origional question. If you want other religous views then start a thread on that.

Your right I am very vocal here and when you insult my religion or come on a thread thats about Christians yes your going to be attacked by me. You see I love God and when you love someone you fight for them! Actually something were supposed to do as brother's and sisters in Christ. Now don't come back and say now your God wants you to fight! You know what I mean so don't try to play my words just as you have tried to play on the words of the origional post.

The only conversation here should be amoung Christians and their faith in God. If you don't believe in God or think we came from monkeys or we all arrived on a space ship then start a thread on what you believe. Shane and its pretty clear to me! Shane this time.

Let me add this if your not Christian just vote on the poll and move on. Thats all thats really required of you if your not. If you are and want to talk about God then this is the thread to do it on. PLAIN AND SIMPLE!


I think I've made my point. I AM a Christian, willing to open my heart and mind to all, and you are obviously not. I'm insulting YOUR religion?

graystone
07-13-2009, 11:25 AM
And if your a Christian then your not only my friend but my sister in Christ. The point I was making is this thread is about whos Christians period. If your not then again it don't pertain to non Christians period. Also don't judge me or scold me for the way I stand up for God. Shane and its No hard feelings. Shane this time.

HauntPhReAk
07-13-2009, 06:26 PM
Before anyone gets upset, this is meant to be funny. I happen to be a Christian with a sense of humor. You can be too (or not - the choice is up to you).

(now editing to make picture appear based on post below - don't like that I can't show it for the general public - can anyone explain how to do that? - thanks for letting me know)

Christianity at work:

BarbieHaunt
07-13-2009, 06:44 PM
I'm unable to see whatever you have posted. Thought you should know.

BarbieHaunt
07-13-2009, 07:00 PM
Now I can see the picture but I don't know whether anyone else can. And I do think it's funny. Yes, even Christians make silly mistakes. http://www.hauntworld.com/haunted_house_forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

bamasmith
07-13-2009, 08:20 PM
What is a " Scientific Christian"? Is this the same as Scientology? I want you to only define what a "Scientific Christian" is? I read your posts,but I am not exactly sure where the SCIENTIFIC part came from. Just asking Tyler folks... Let him respond.....

Greg Chrise
07-13-2009, 08:29 PM
I guess all these relationships make me your stupid, maybe adopted second cousin in Christ?

jack
07-14-2009, 06:57 AM
Allan, the term 'Dark Age' was coined by Petrarch specifically to distinguish the 'darkness' he saw at the time if the spread of Christianity from the comparative 'lightness' of the end of the pre-Christian era.

Shane, the poll gives the option to say that you're not Christian, yes? Then the thread includes that option.

Perhaps, if you want so desperately to testify and announce your Christianity, to speak lovingly of and to your brother and sister Christians, to affirm your faith, perhaps a forum on a site that celebrates apparitions, monsters, demons, gore, fright and a host of things utterly antithetical to that faith is not the ideal place to do so.

But, as I say, live and let live.

The gods know and cherish you, Shane.

graystone
07-14-2009, 07:23 AM
Your trying hard I can tell LOL. Ok then let me say it this way if your not a Christian why even bother talking about it here? Why talk about other Gods. The poll gives you the option to vote but one would think the discussion part of the thred would be left up to Christians.

Shread says right off hes a Christian. I got a good feeling why I know non belivers don't want to start their own thread. It want get the traffic that a Christian thread will get as here. Try it Jack I mean start a thread on other " Gods" or who here is an "Atheist" its really simple. Shane and its I don't need any "God's" to charish me just the God! Shane this time.

shredman
07-14-2009, 09:01 AM
Just to clear things up, this thread is only for christians. Many are complaining that I added a place for non christians of whatever sort to vote, how couldn't I? my question was simple, I wanted to see how many were christians, not how many weren't, but to get that option,. I had to add a no, or I wouldn't get the same results.
If you are a non believer thank you for voting, but quit your complaining, this thread is for christian haunters.

Darkangel
07-14-2009, 09:11 AM
Go Shredman!

Darkangel

graystone
07-14-2009, 09:19 AM
Thank You! For clearing that up! Shane and its Ape believers move on! Shane this time.

P.S. Kentuky's Largest Scream Park Just added Concessions at their event they will offer Apples and Bananas !

mindtumor
07-14-2009, 10:06 AM
Thank You! For clearing that up! Shane and its Ape believers move on! Shane this time.

P.S. Kentuky's Largest Scream Park Just added Concessions at their event they will offer Apples and Bananas !

That has to be the funniest thing you have ever said. The question is whether there will be any apples and bananas left to offer...

Motograter
07-14-2009, 10:57 AM
Lmao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

graystone
07-14-2009, 02:29 PM
Thats a good question! Heres one for the monkey believers! I just got back from visiting the largest scream park in Kentucky and I caught their Vice President on video and posted it to youtube. This is the reason he does not have time to attend church! Hes to busy acting like a monkey!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKiBdNkNR00

Shane and its yes there is a God and he made animals like this to show us all how we act when were non belivers! Shane this time!

TheGreatPhantasmo
07-14-2009, 02:43 PM
Where in the very first post do you see Shread asking what religion if any are you? You are incorrect this thread is about Christians and if you don't believe in God or you believe in something else then YOUR NOT A CHRISTIAN! Again the quesion is how many here are Christians and if you believe in anything else other than God then this post does not pertain to you. Please don't try to add to the origional question. If you want other religous views then start a thread on that.

Your right I am very vocal here and when you insult my religion or come on a thread thats about Christians yes your going to be attacked by me. You see I love God and when you love someone you fight for them! Actually something were supposed to do as brother's and sisters in Christ. Now don't come back and say now your God wants you to fight! You know what I mean so don't try to play my words just as you have tried to play on the words of the origional post.

The only conversation here should be amoung Christians and their faith in God. If you don't believe in God or think we came from monkeys or we all arrived on a space ship then start a thread on what you believe. Shane and its pretty clear to me! Shane this time.

Let me add this if your not Christian just vote on the poll and move on. Thats all thats really required of you if your not. If you are and want to talk about God then this is the thread to do it on. PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

If that's what you want, start a thread called "Profess your love of Our God". The way this poll was made makes it seem like you're asking who is and isn't Christian.

Btw, I'm not Christian.

Also, learn to spell. From someone so self-righteous, you sure come off like a total jackass.

graystone
07-14-2009, 03:05 PM
Question for you TheGreatAzzHole I mean Phantasmo. Again why are you here. The spelling thing just shows I am who I am no need to cheat or act like a fool as you just did. So I make a few mistakes here and there. Just as your making a mistake by coming here acting like Superman trying to save the day! Wow 17 post to this date that's a real way to make friends here. When you made your post did you use spell check? Are you really a smart azz or a real true smart azz. Shread made it very clear what this post was about and here you go. Dude trust me I know these guys and for someone who seems new to the industry you just bought yourself a big old black ball!

Shane and its way to go! Another one bites the dust! Shane this time!

HauntPhReAk
07-14-2009, 03:46 PM
Thats a good question! Heres one for the monkey believers! I just got back from visiting the largest scream park in Kentucky and I caught their Vice President on video and posted it to youtube. This is the reason he does not have time to attend church! Hes to busy acting like a monkey!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKiBdNkNR00

Shane and its yes there is a God and he made animals like this to show us all how we act when were non belivers! Shane this time!

Shane,

I'm an appalled Christian now. You are an embarrassment to Christians everywhere. I think the video you posted must be your self-portrait. It's certainly not meant for the non-Christians as you claim because they are not allowed to do anything except vote in this poll and then go away and remain silent, according to you and shredman.

What's next? Will you have separate bathrooms for Christians and non-Christians because that is the line of thinking you are presenting. Shame on you for taking us back to a time of segregation! We have worked and continue to work very hard to get past ALL segregation in America, whether it's based on religion, race, whatever.

How many people who WERE your friends before this mess are non-Christians? Did you ever stop to think about that? Many people are non-Christian. Are you willing to give up friendships with all of those who are not Christian? That is what you are spouting.

Grow up and be more open-minded. Whatever happened to turning the other cheek rather than fighting about everything? Stop with the name-calling NOW. You are NOT exhibiting Christian behavior. I think God and Jesus Christ would be ashamed.

Smiley
07-14-2009, 04:20 PM
Shane, I am deeply offended, no, disgusted by what you are saying.


To me an Atheist is just wasted space.


Why these people don't just put a gun to their head and end it I will never know.

That's.....beyond despicable. I'm honestly having trouble finding the words to say about this, but I guess I'll start with:

Why the hate?

I mean "wasted space"? Really? That's what you're calling us, and therefore me? Just because I have a lack of belief in God(s) doesn't mean I am less human than yourself. I feel sorrow, I bleed, I can feel compassion. Same as anyone. I am not a "monkey". Or believe we come from chimps you'd see at the zoo, if that is indeed what you think most Atheists believe. But that's another topic all together.

What I am getting at is that what you said was very hateful, and honestly, I don't care for it.

The sad part is, I use to think you were a good fellow and that we were all friends here. But now, I don't know where to stand with you.

Darkangel
07-14-2009, 04:40 PM
Lighten up, Shane's video wasn't the best choice to use, funny, but not the best to use here. He's passionate about his beliefs and so are the rest of you.

I'm not trying to speak for him but I don't think he implied that Atheists are a waste of space, just squandering their faith maybe? Believing in at least something is part of what makes us humans, faith enriched lives having no faith leaves a void in a person....


Darkangel

HauntPhReAk
07-14-2009, 04:43 PM
Lighten up, Shane's video wasn't the best choice to use, funny, but not the best to use here. He's passionate about his beliefs and so are the rest of you.

I'm not trying to speak for him but I don't think he implied that Atheists are a waste of space, just squandering their faith maybe? Believing in at least something is part of what makes us humans, faith enriched lives having no faith leaves a void in a person....

Darkangel

Shane didn't IMPLY anything. He outright SAID it OVER and OVER and OVER... He owes everyone an apology big time!

graystone
07-14-2009, 05:10 PM
Whats the point. Thats my view just as you have yours. It still gets me that your on a thread about Christians and still want to press your beliefs here instrad of your own thread. Now let me expalin what I meant. If I lived my life and my belief was when I die thats it's over, I am now worm food, my soul is gone its over,then why drag yourself through life as it stands life is not a bed of roses and it was never ment to be that way. Life is about family, friends, good times, bad times and for me to think when I am dead its over again I will say whats the point. Thats my view!

Smiley if I offended you I am sorry but just as I will not change your beliefs you will not change mine! AGAIN THIS THREAD IS FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN GOD! Well actually rather Christians. So its apparent you don't so again why argue with me on a thread for those who do believe and call themselves Christians. Let me say it this way in my beliefs I don't hate you I just feel sorry for you.

HauntPhReAk you say I am an embarrassmsnt to Christians. Judge not that ye be judged. When I post here I post as to how I feel as a Christian and for you to go and judge me for how I act is way out of line. Also you don't seem to be so " opened minded" yourself. You either like me or you don't but if your gonna preach to me on what to say and how to act then practice what you preach! Also I will not apologize for anything I think most here that knows me knows where I am coming from.

Dark your right it was ment as a funny joke! Heck I could have posted the monkey throwing doo doo LMAO!

Final thought! If your not a Christian I still love you and respect you. If your an Athiest well I can and will still love you and respect you but I sure feel sorry for you and I can not and will not accept your beliefs. Shane and its love me or hate me I see things my way and you see them your way! At the end of the day I am still Shane this time!

BarbieHaunt
07-14-2009, 09:30 PM
...Judge not that ye be judged...

I think one of the biggest problems I've seen here in this thread is that you have been judging everyone who is not a Christian since the thread began almost a year ago, when you first mentioned "monkey swinging atheists," which to many of us, Christians or not, is unacceptable. Same as it's NEVER OK to speak some words, it's never OK to judge people based on their religious beliefs, race, income, class, background, etc. That is called intolerance, and I do not support it.

As a result of your judging others with such hatred and intolerance, a good Christian finally judged you back and a good Atheist spoke out and let you know how he felt, and you're still not getting it.

I asked you before to think before you type. Now I will ask you to do one more thing. Please re-read this thread from the beginning. Read it out loud if you need to so that you may hear what you are saying to people who you have called your friends here and who are now starting to question that.

I am trying to help you understand why you are getting the negative responses. I think it's because you don't understand the impact your words make on others. http://www.hauntworld.com/haunted_house_forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

graystone
07-14-2009, 10:01 PM
Let me correct you on one thing here. The couple of people thats repiled in a negative way to me are not my friends. I don't know them and have never met them as far as I know. And I do not know you either. So again you live your way and I will live mine. You don't know anything about me other than here so don't get involed in my personal beliefs and I want yours its really simple. This thread is not about how I should respect and open my eyes to the belief that we came from monkeys and alians! Actually I have recieved several private messages saying that they think its cool that I am sticking up for what I believe in with that some of the private messages I have recieved are from friends and some from people I do not know! Shane and its I am sticking to my guns here! Shane this time.

bamasmith
07-15-2009, 05:35 AM
I still want to know what a "Scientific Christian" is. An Atheist is a waste of good oxygen. Just like any father that does'nt teach his children about Christ and fails to lead them to him. There is a man that was tortured and murdered who did so that we can live for eternity in heaven.His name is Jesus Christ.He died for all of us.Believers were once lost,just like an atheist is now.It is a personal choice whether you choose to live for Christ or not.But it is an Eternal one. I was a waste of everything before I was saved.I admit it. We are here to serve the God. If you choose not to believe,it is your choice.But don't say you have'nt been warned. So,there is my opinion.Since everyone else is giving there's,why not me.

mindtumor
07-15-2009, 06:23 AM
I don't think Shane has said anything offensive. He is a Christian and everyone thinks that is ok but everyone wants him to accept everyone else's faith as well? That doesn't make sense because to him being a Christian is an end all thing, so why would he say I am a Christian but you are right, and you are right, and you are right. If he said he thought he was right and everyone else was also right wouldn't he be weak in faith and contradicting himself? What do you want him to say?

jack
07-15-2009, 06:34 AM
Snredman, Shane, no, I will NOT shut up. We who follow the old gods tried that once already--and look what it got us. We tried to put your form of worship alongside the others that were practiced in the civilized world--but you would have none of it. You demanded the primacy of your god even then.

Rome did not take the threat you posed seriously enough.

And now we are here.

In a world where the fate of the planet hangs on the internecine war between your Gods' three schismatic faiths. Thanks.

And you tell me to shut up on a site where you ape our ways and our beliefs--so you can make money off our holiday. And make no mistake, Shane--and it's I love devil worship when I can say it's 'pretend' Shane this time--it IS our holiday. The ghosts, the zombies, the monsters--all that stems from our beliefs--not yours. Even the cutesy fun stuff is wholly pagan in origin.

Darkangel, wikipedia is a fine source, but it only scratches the surface. The relationship of Christianity to the advent of the Dark Age is--obviously--not a subject that Christians find much solace in. But the early Church's anti-literacy, anti-science and anti-democratic ideals are not conjecture--they are a matter of record. The issues that 'caused' the Dark Age have many roots in the spread of the early Church.

Christianity's saving grace is that it adapted when the Enlightenment truly seperated church power from state power, becoming benign and even benevolent.

Why so many seem to want a reversal of that is beyond me--we can see the success of that path in the Islamic world.

I keep saying I'd prefer a 'live and let live' stance. I think we can see that I don't get that.

The gods will cherish you, Christian or not, whether you believe in them or not. Paradise awaits all who live good lives. I say this to try to make you see that the gods put no conditions on you for their love--you need never bend a knee to any of them. And your works, and your life is what places you, after you pass on, on your next path. You can, if you so wish, devote yourself to the One God, and follow His tenets and that will not alter how the other gods 'feel' about you at all.

I simply wish that you, and your God, could extend the courtesy as it has been extended to Him.

lurker
07-15-2009, 06:49 AM
HOLY SHIITE! Don’t you people have something better to do than argue religious BS on a haunted house message board? If you guys have copious amounts of time to kill then come visit me, and you can help get my haunt ready for the season. I will talk religion all day while you build and paint. I have a minor in religion and philosophy, so I can shoot the Shiite all day long.
For civilities sake I request that this thread be erased so it isn’t at the top of the forum every freakin’ morning.

Darkangel
07-15-2009, 06:57 AM
Lurker,


That is the topic at hand, if you're too busy why did you waste precious painting ad building time posting on it?

Jack, you're really trying to come off as enlightened and all-knowing, but please share some example of what your Gods have done for humanity. Please show me examples of miracles, etc. Before Christ they were sacrificing people and animals to their God, killing in his name. They even believed thunder and lightning were the result of Gods and not nature.

Darkangel

graystone
07-15-2009, 06:57 AM
I am going to ask you this once more trust me your not going to last long here for the most part as you can see where an industry that sticks together. The best thing you can do is keep and take your devil worship or your I worship the Aliens in space ships on to another thread.

Also are you saying that Halloween is a holiday for Devil worship? if so thats the very thing that this Industry needs to stay awy from. Thankfully most of the world and U.S. does believe in God. And people like you give us all ( haunters) a bad name. If I have misread your post or misunderstood it then I am sorry but looks like I understand what your saying.

Jared thanks and your correct. Bama there is no such thing as a scientific christian. You either believe in God and are a christian or your not! Shane and its what do I have to do to get you people to spread the word of your monkey leader or alien god on to your own thread! Shane this time!

mindtumor
07-15-2009, 07:01 AM
Do you think that all people that follow God and accept Jesus as savior believe in the false Christianty that Rome pushed through those many years ago? Some of us do actually know that Rome took pagan holidays and made them their own so they could push through their own false christianity. The one I would think is most obvious to everyone is Easter. Good Friday to Easter Sunday isn't even 72 hours yet people celebrate it as though it is 3 days in the tomb and Christ rises. I have never been in a church in this country that could even obey the second commandment in its entirety.

Here is a question for everyone: Who are the people of Israel and where these people are today? Does anyone know the answer to that?

I don't mind politely discussing these things with people, I don't know all of the answers but I do know a few things if people want to discuss.

lurker
07-15-2009, 07:06 AM
DarkAngel
Hell, I have a few minutes in the morning to kill while I drink my coffee, and I was hoping to recruit some of free labor from all the folks that have hours to write personal dissertations on their faith on a haunted house message board. Sorry, please carry on with your fun.

Darkangel
07-15-2009, 07:13 AM
Jared,

It wasn't false Christianity that Rome pushed, there were some changes but it was generally off the teachings and direction of the deciples spreading the wroe and their writings. Early Christianity was by far more pure than it is today with some sects that pop up.

Darkangel

jack
07-15-2009, 08:00 AM
Darkangel, I don't think you'd accept anything I put forth as 'miraculous'. In fact, I think you'd call them 'myths'. Because that's what you've been taught.

But you need to understand that what is called 'myth' when it's non-Christian is called 'parable', 'gospel', and 'sermon' when it IS Christian.

There are thousands of 'miracles' in what's called mythology--including a worldwide flood, virgin births, endless food, resurrection--pretty much every miracle that's in the Bible.

In classic belief, Jesus Christ is what's known as a 'hero'--the child of a human and a god--just like Heracles.

Doesn't that sound silly? But it only sounds silly because Heracles is myth--a fairy story--fiction, right?

Heracles even 'ascended'--leaving his humanity behind, just like Christ.

And they did not think that thunder and lightening were the result of god--any more than Christians do(God controls nature, Darkangel, so He does control the thunder and lightening, no?)--but they DID believe that some of the gods could direct lightening....a belief that has not completely gone away(see 'Act of God').

Shane, I am saying that you enjoy all the pagan trappings of Halloween as much as any of us--and they are pagan. I used the term 'devil worship' to point out that it's because of Christians that many haunted houses avoid scenes with devils and demons. We've actually had to remove them because of complaints. And yet they carve their jack o'lanterns and put up their symbols of death and romanticize the witches they once persecuted.

I don't hold anyone's Christianity against them, why do you feel free to hold my faith against me?

I don't ape your holidays or try to cash in on them. Yet you seem to feel it's fine to glom on to our holidays while disparaging us for having beliefs that support the very holiday you love.

Why, I can't--in an industry that should have no problem with it--openly express my beliefs without getting a load of crap for it. Because the idea that Halloween is a pagan based holiday upsets Christians.

As you put it 'people like you give us all ( haunters) a bad name'. The horrible thing is, you're right. If I go too far off the Christian-approved path, I could hurt my fellow haunters.

And the only reason for that is the sad fact that many Christians will not 'live and let live'.

So I will not shut up. I will speak, and try to help you see that we 'pagans' who work alongside you in the haunt industry are not misguided or damned or subject to your scorn.

And, while it'd be nice if more came out of the 'broom closet' here, I understand THAT silence all too well. Too many of us are silenced in fear for our jobs--or our friendships. But we're here.

kpolley
07-15-2009, 08:12 AM
Well, I've tried to avoid getting re-involved in this because the tone was changing for the worst...but here I go again.

First, let me say that this thread was started because of my comments about my faith and my claim that lots of haunters are Christians. I never intended for a mess to follow where everyone fought about what they believed. I welcome non-Christians to share their thoughts with me. We need an open dialogue between all people of different and of no faiths. The problem is that too often and for far too long Christians have been seen as self-righteous, exclusive, hypocrites and we aren'tfurthering the kingdom by perpetuating these views. As a Christian, specifically to those who aren't, I'd like to say a couple things.

Christians ARE all of the bad thigns you think we are! We love God and follow his teachings...and at the same time we fall short all the time. The Bible tells us how we should live our lives and we fail to do that time and time again. We fail to show unconditional love to everyone, not just those we like. We fail to BE Christ to the World. On top of that there are vast numbers of people who call themselves Christians but have either twisted the scriptures till they are unrecognizeable or simply speak without ever living the words they say. All of this is true. Please don't judge Christ by his followers, however. We are just sinners saved by Grace. Look to Christ himself, look to the Bible to decide what to make of Christianity. Read one of the Gospels (Mathew, Mark, Luke, or John) and see what you think of Jesus for yourself. I wouldn't be a Chsitian myself if I only looked at other Christians to decide if the faith had merit.

I'd also like to share with you all, if you are interested, the origins of my faith so that you can at least understand better where I am coming from. I grew up in the church from infancy, like many people who grow up in the midwest. I went to church every Sunday, but found myself bored and uninterested in Christianity by the time I reached high school. I continued to attend church with my family, but my faith had completely eroded away. One summer, a good friend of mine asked me to help with a week of camp he was doing at the Christian summer camp our church helped support. I agreed because I had attended when I was young and thought it would be fun. As the week went by I began to feel a nagging at my heart, something subtle at first and then more and more prominent. By Thursday night, I was feeling terrible. I realized that I had been living two lives. One where I was a Christian at church and this just great guy, and then one the rest of the week where I did things my way and had no relationship with Christ. That night, after the services, I went off by myself for a couple hours and broke down. I prayed, honestly prayed for the first time in years, and told God that I had to change. I was living two lives that couldn't coexist. I decided then and there to turn it all over to God and begin living the life I knew He wanted me to.

That was eight years ago. The road has not been easy for me, but I didn't expect it would. God never promises an easy path for his followers. In fact, He tells us there will be trials and often more trials just for following Him. I don't follow to have it good. I don't follow because I want to avoid Hell (although I do want to avoid Hell). I follow because God came to Earth in the form of a man, walked among us, and eventually gave his life in a terrible wayso that I could be made free from my sins. How could I not follow? When you truly understand the need for and the impact of the cross it is a powerful experience.

If anyone out there is curious to at least check this whole God thing out, let me suggest a couple great resources. First, the Bible. If you're looking for something else, however, try Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis or The Reason for God by Timothy Keller. Both books are really well written and lay out logical arguments for the existence of God. Although I love the Keller book, I would suggest Mere Christianity to non-Christians first. The book is incredible and is not a preachy book. Lewis simply lays the foundation of who God is and why He is as He is.

Lastly, to all the Christians on this forum who are beating up on others and especially beating up on the non-Christians...shame on you. We are called to be Christ to the world. Our one mission is to spread the gospel and to lead people to Christ. This negativity and hate are intolerable. Christ would never have spoken to an unbeliever the way some of you are speaking to each other. The religious leaders of His day were horrific in nearly every way, but Christ was respectful to them anyway. We should learn to actually follow His example, not just talk about it. Remember, you were bought with a price. God made He who knew no sin to be sin for all of us. Christians are looked to by the World as examples of Christ and we have all done a terrible job of representing him. That has to stop. As much as the angels cheer when another soul comes to know Christ we will be called to task for all those we have led astray through our words and actions.

graystone
07-15-2009, 08:28 AM
Why Not start a pagan thread? Why hijack a christian one? What part of that don't you understand! Shane and its.... whats so hard about starting a thread on your own belief's? Shane this time.

P.S. Kip my friend good to see you. You know Kip here is how Shane see's it. Some spread the word of God much like your doing here and that's great man. Some on the other hand defend God himself much as I am doing. I hope you can see that.

Jim Warfield
07-15-2009, 08:29 AM
Aprox. 110 people showed up to hear a traveling "evangilist" speak.
"There are at least 10 Satanists in this very room!".........
No there weren't.
Was everyone then looking more closely at their neighbors they have known for 60 years?
Retired people, nice people. Very normal, social, rural people?
This is the sort of crap that just binds my shorts up.
Does God exist? Look through almost any National Geographic magazine. Look at the wonders and diversity in nature from the depths of the oceans to the sub atomic particles, all in full color!
I "rest" my case.
If you treat others right you will sleep better at night.
Life can be very simple.

Darkangel
07-15-2009, 09:16 AM
Jack,

we get it, you're Pagan you don't believe in Christianity we're stealing YOUR Holidays yada yada yada. You're going in circles, start a new thread about Paganism and see if you can scrape up one or two people who still follow those beliefs. I'm not knocking you for your beliefs, you're free to worship as you see fit.


Kip, great post very insightful!


Darkangel

Greg Chrise
07-15-2009, 09:17 AM
Yeah, and sometimes National Geographic shows boobies too!

TheGreatPhantasmo
07-15-2009, 10:07 AM
Question for you TheGreatAzzHole I mean Phantasmo. Again why are you here. The spelling thing just shows I am who I am no need to cheat or act like a fool as you just did. So I make a few mistakes here and there. Just as your making a mistake by coming here acting like Superman trying to save the day! Wow 17 post to this date that's a real way to make friends here. When you made your post did you use spell check? Are you really a smart azz or a real true smart azz. Shread made it very clear what this post was about and here you go. Dude trust me I know these guys and for someone who seems new to the industry you just bought yourself a big old black ball!

Shane and its way to go! Another one bites the dust! Shane this time!

Really? This is a joke right?

I have 17 posts so what i have to say doesn't matter? I don't have alot of posts because , frankly, alot of the posts on this board aren't worth contributing to.

I've been in the industry going on 9 years now, I wouldn't exactly call that new. Black Balled? Seriously? You're gonna have people "not be my friends" because I disagreed with you on a MESSAGE BOARD? Grow up man.

And no, I don't use spell check. I just know how to spell.

TheGreatPhantasmo
07-15-2009, 10:16 AM
Why Not start a pagan thread? Why hijack a christian one? What part of that don't you understand! Shane and its.... whats so hard about starting a thread on your own belief's? Shane this time.

P.S. Kip my friend good to see you. You know Kip here is how Shane see's it. Some spread the word of God much like your doing here and that's great man. Some on the other hand defend God himself much as I am doing. I hope you can see that.

This is a legit question. Ive noticed in some of your posts they contain "Shane and its" and "Shane this time."

What is this? I dunno if it's something editing weird of if it's something you know you're saying. I am legitimately just curious as to what it is.

HauntPhReAk
07-15-2009, 10:58 AM
I don't think Shane has said anything offensive. He is a Christian and everyone thinks that is ok but everyone wants him to accept everyone else's faith as well? That doesn't make sense because to him being a Christian is an end all thing, so why would he say I am a Christian but you are right, and you are right, and you are right. If he said he thought he was right and everyone else was also right wouldn't he be weak in faith and contradicting himself? What do you want him to say?



Wow this post was made a long time ago and is still at the top of the forum, definately my most popular post!

Thanks for your input!

-Zack Cooper
www.shreddershalloweenscreampark.com (http://www.shreddershalloweenscreampark.com)


No, of course Shane doesn't have to agree with what he doesn't believe. What I want from Shane is for him to quit telling everyone that if they are not Christian and therefore have views different from his, they can only vote and cannot voice their opinion on this thread.

That makes absolutely no sense, whether it was what Shredman originally intended or not. If it was his original intention, he should have said so up front and not come back almost a year later (YESTERDAY) after a two-sided conversation had been taking place the entire time and suddenly said so (likely because he was pushed to do so). He had already checked in TWO WEEKS AGO and commented that he was surprised by how much response he was getting but never made any mention that he meant for only Christians to respond. He thanked everyone for their input TWO WEEKS AGO. See second quote above.

If you ask an open-ended question in a poll, then you should be prepared for people to answer, and you should welcome all answers. Think of it as a learning experience and listen to what they have to say, if nothing else.

I also want Shane and others to quit calling people horrible names and insulting them when they don't agree with them. That is NOT acceptable. The way "monkeys" and "aliens" are used by him and anyone else to speak to others verbally and through videos speaks volumes about those using them. And I believe anyone using those as insults owes others an apology.

It is NEVER OK to insult others to try to convert them or to threaten to black ball somebody from the haunt industry because they disagree with you. That is my belief, and I also agree with whoever suggested AGAIN that it is time to delete this entire thread (poll).

graystone
07-15-2009, 12:37 PM
Heck maybe I cant spell but surly you guys can read! Start a thread on what you believe in! What part of that don't you understand? Are you stupid? Your going on and on and on JUST START A THREAD ABOUT YOUR BELIEFS AND STOP TRYING TO HIJACK A CHRISTIAN THREAD! Can you do that? Will you do that? Why want you do that? Again I don't believe we were pulled from a monkeys uterus no more than a space ship droped us off. You nuts know where I am going if your smart enough to build awsome haunts then your smart enough to get my point! I assure you I will not come to your thread and tell you how to believe. So you stay off this one and I will stay off yours. DANG ITS SIMPLE! Shane and its thats how I feel! Shane this time.

graystone
07-15-2009, 02:51 PM
I was driving down the road today and was thinking about this thread. I think its best I move away from it. I have said my peace and have made my beliefs known. I think in his own way God said Shane your friends and peers gets the message and thats whats most important.

I will be the person that I am and say if I have offended anyone I will be the bigger person and do the right thing and say I am sorry. I am sorry if I offended anyone my beliefs are strong and solid so if I hurt anyone even Tyler I will say I am sorry that I took my beliefs over the line. I will not and cannot say I am sorry for what I believe in its who I am and its what has got me through very rough times. I have said this before God has given me more than I could ever have imagined whether it be through my company, my family,my animals or my bank account I am truly blessed!

At the end of the day we all choose different roads and paths to take. Some will choose the right road others will not but at the end of the day thats really not for me to judge. I think I am doing the right thing here and just letting it go. I will probably check in on it from time to time. But I am laying my sword down and walking away. This is what I think God wants me to do. Am I the looser here? NO, NO, NO I am doing what God has told me to do. I am just a fighter in his army and he is my commander and he thinks its best to try and spread his message in other ways.

Shane and its at the end of the day you are all human and I must and will respect you. Shane this time.

bamasmith
07-15-2009, 07:19 PM
I am just posting this to get my count up by 1. That is about all this thread is good for now..Wonder how long it will take for me to get to 100....

jack
07-16-2009, 07:09 AM
Shane, I read your post several times. Each time I chuckled a bit. I did so because I think that you truly believe that you're being 'big' here.

I think what you're actually doing is trying to kill this thread.

And you're doing that because it's becoming clear to you that it is you, a 'fighter in God's army', who is looking increasingly petty and venal.

If God is telling you to lay down your sword and back away He is doing so because He knows that you are doing Him no service.

A rational debate--even if both sides come away unconvinced of the others veracity--is far preferable for the cause than the hurled or snide insults that offer no insight or reasoned rebuttal.

Does your God wish you to spresd His message in 'other ways' because you can't engage in a reasonable debate with a non-Christian?

jack
07-16-2009, 07:18 AM
Jack,

we get it, you're Pagan you don't believe in Christianity we're stealing YOUR Holidays yada yada yada. You're going in circles, start a new thread about Paganism and see if you can scrape up one or two people who still follow those beliefs. I'm not knocking you for your beliefs, you're free to worship as you see fit.

Darkangel

Interesting. I thought we were having a rational conversation.

Darkangel
07-16-2009, 08:57 AM
Well, we WERE, but its time to move on start a Pagan thread if you desire to drum up more dicussion.

Darkangel

Tater
07-16-2009, 12:22 PM
Wow...theres alot of yelling going on in this post, Name calling and what not..I wanna play too but dont wanna read all 14 pages...sooooo...


WHERE IS MY PEANUT BUTTER AND JELLY SANDWICH YOU DOODY HEAD!

The Doctor
07-17-2009, 03:18 PM
DOODY HEAD!!! now wait a minute here mam...mist...tater I have worked very hard to graduate to &%$@ Head so you will address me as that. And we are serving Bologna sandwiches so enjoy!!!!!

shredman
07-17-2009, 06:45 PM
Hey I read your post and i never said they had to remain silent, they can be here if they want, but what the hell is up with the complaining and fights from you people? I am all for having your own opinion but when you get pissed I added a no option its just plain retarded! THIS WAS A SIMPLE QUESTION, MY GOD!!


Shane,

I'm an appalled Christian now. You are an embarrassment to Christians everywhere. I think the video you posted must be your self-portrait. It's certainly not meant for the non-Christians as you claim because they are not allowed to do anything except vote in this poll and then go away and remain silent, according to you and shredman.

What's next? Will you have separate bathrooms for Christians and non-Christians because that is the line of thinking you are presenting. Shame on you for taking us back to a time of segregation! We have worked and continue to work very hard to get past ALL segregation in America, whether it's based on religion, race, whatever.

How many people who WERE your friends before this mess are non-Christians? Did you ever stop to think about that? Many people are non-Christian. Are you willing to give up friendships with all of those who are not Christian? That is what you are spouting.

Grow up and be more open-minded. Whatever happened to turning the other cheek rather than fighting about everything? Stop with the name-calling NOW. You are NOT exhibiting Christian behavior. I think God and Jesus Christ would be ashamed.

HauntPhReAk
07-17-2009, 07:52 PM
Just to clear things up, this thread is only for christians. Many are complaining that I added a place for non christians of whatever sort to vote, how couldn't I? my question was simple, I wanted to see how many were christians, not how many weren't, but to get that option,. I had to add a no, or I wouldn't get the same results.
If you are a non believer thank you for voting, but quit your complaining, this thread is for christian haunters.

Shredman,

I want to try to clear something up and then hopefully we can let this thread rest in peace (with Michael Jackson), where I believe it belongs.

My quote that you posted above this one is from a few days ago, and we've come a long way since then. I still stand by everything I said, but I do want to apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings in the process because that certainly was not my intention.

I was never one who was upset that you had added a "no" option to the poll. I was upset with the way those who were not Christians were being spoken to, being called names, and being told repeatedly to go away and not respond on this thread, when all threads at HauntWorld are actually open to all members here. I finally had enough of the name-calling and belittling of others, so I spoke out, and in the process, I came across as a real jerk, so again I apologize for that. And you did say that this thread was for Christians only (see your quote above), but I'm way past that, so let's not keep hashing it over.

I'm only posting this to apologize and to let you all know that Shane PM'd me and let me know that he wanted to respond when more was said after his apology, but he has been big enough not to respond, and I'm hoping that's what we will all do from here on out. Shane apologized, I apologize, and I'm sure we will all be better off without anymore arguments on this thread.

So how about it everyone? Let's all call a giant truce and stop bringing back this thread that just won't go away...

WmxT21uFRwM

shredman
07-17-2009, 08:29 PM
i apologize...

jack
07-20-2009, 01:10 PM
Well said, HauntPhReAk

And this will be my last post on this thread.

I responded to Shane apology negatively because I didn't feel it had sincerity. It felt like it finally got through to him just how petty he was appearing and he had to do something.

And with good reason. Terms like 'blackballing' and 'you aren't going to last long' were bandied about.

So he decided to be 'big' about things. But you don't do that by saying 'I'm going to be big about this...' Just saying that let's everyone know that you feel you're 'doing the right thing' because everyong you've been insulting deserved it--but they won't just shut up and let you declare yourself the 'winner'.

So I didn't see his apology as being 'big'.

If he'd said

'I've been rough, and rude and nasty to some people here, and that really doesn't further the message of my faith--or the spirit of this forum, and I'm sorry. I can't agree to 'live and let live' because it is part of my faith to tell you my beliefs, and help you save your soul, but I can try to do so without being so insulting.'

I'd have accepted it without question and let the thread die.

But that's not what happened--instead I expect Shane really wanted to respond to what I said with annoyance--if not outright anger. It's even possible he said as much to you in that PM.

I'm sad that this went the way it did. I had some faint hope that the pagan and Christian sides of the haunt community could have discussed their places in the industry, could have come to a greater understanding and possibly allowed the door of that broom closet to open a bit further without fear of alienating friends or losing jobs.

Shane, if you'd like to PM me and see what comes of it, I'm more than willing.

And, like you, I'm off this thread...

Darkangel
07-20-2009, 01:26 PM
Jack,

Whether you felt Shane's apology was sincere or not is irrelavant, it was an apology nonetheless. Also, you spoke of the Christian and Pagan sides of the industry, but it appears you are the only representative of the Pagan side. Times have changes since the past 2000 years.

Put this topic to bed please its haunting time!

Darkangel

monsterwax
12-04-2009, 03:47 PM
It seems to me that both sides are angry at each other and need to cool off. Looking back at the posts, it appears a Christian wanted to find out how many others were out there, and they posted a survey question. (I was surprised by the high Christian numbers.) Instead of reading it and moving on, some sharp shooters started attacking a poster, suggesting he was being non-inclusive and mean, etc. etc. "I'm offended" blah blah blah. Having survived a decade or so in ubber politically correct California, I'm so tired of hearing that gripe. It is usually just a pretext for someone else grabbing the microphone and preaching themselves, doing the exact thing they are accusing the other person of. Dudes, turn the other cheek! If someone wants to give a "shout out" to others in their community, LET THEM. And if you're not part of that group, don't complain, just start your own poll for the atheists, Jews, Muslims, Pagans, or whoever else on another thread. But let's not use this forum to pick fights. Us it to focus on what we all have in common (haunt ideas), not debates and wedge issues.

And that reminds me, how many of you guys voted for Obama?

(Just kidding! The only thing more pointless to argue about than religion is politics, especially here!)

WelchWitch
12-04-2009, 04:39 PM
My dear why are you bringing this issue back up? It has been dead for while, lets not pick at the scab, might cause an infection.

robos99
12-07-2009, 01:15 PM
And that reminds me, how many of you guys voted for Obama?

(Just kidding! The only thing more pointless to argue about than religion is politics, especially here!)

I'm not too thrilled about bringing this thread back to top with another post, but let's face it this seems to be a thread everyone is reading. I'm not posting this to take a side though. This whole thing, not to mention a thread last year that turned into a big blowup over politics, reminds me of a long standing policy at another industry forum (different industry, but not unlike this place in terms of size). They had one big rule, absolutely no posts about religion or politics. Some may see this as censorship, but personally I think that's something that should be adopted here. It's not that you're not entitled to an opinion. It's that this is an industry forum. There is a time and place for such discussions, but unless whether you're a Christian or a Pagan or something else truly impacts how you and everyone else do business, then it should have no business being discussed here. I may not have a huge post count or be a major player in this industry or know half the people here personally, but that's just my 2 cents.

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here. Just trying to get my point across, because let's be honest, another thread about religion or politics is bound to come up again.

Jim Warfield
12-08-2009, 06:43 PM
Were advised to be a successfull barber to NOT discuss Religion or Politics many years ago, back in the good ol days.
This must be impossible in some countrys where the two are completly wrapped up in one package together, all the time.

WelchWitch
12-10-2009, 09:03 AM
This thread keeps appearing as new and that is why people still post on it. It just showed as new for me and Jim posted 1 day ago and it says he posted 17 hours ago. This is why people post, it appears to be still new. Monsterwax posted on it because it showed as new and he thought it was. I bet you my broom on it!

monsterwax
12-10-2009, 04:05 PM
You are correct Welchwitch. I wasn't try to bring it up again, but to put it to bed. It keeps coming back like a bad penny. I guess you just can't keep a good controversy down.

Jim Warfield
12-10-2009, 06:52 PM
Some posts that were very old were still being listed everyday as mere hours old.
IT's A TIME MACHINE!!
Make time stand stil..post on Hauntworld!

hauntedyardofdoom
12-11-2009, 08:08 AM
Some posts that were very old were still being listed everyday as mere hours old.
IT's A TIME MACHINE!!
Make time stand stil..post on Hauntworld!

I think it shows it as "new" whenever someone votes in the poll. Is there a way to close the poll? that might put the thread to rest for good.

haunterx
12-13-2009, 10:09 PM
100% Christian

newhorror2010
06-18-2010, 10:21 AM
I'm SICK AND TIRED of reading about whether people are or aren't christians! Not that I've been reading anymore of these posts, but PLEASE PEOPLE, LET'S LEAVE THE WHOLE RELIGION THING where it belongs ie., in church and/or your own homes!
Great! So you're a christian! Great! So you're agnostic! Great! So you're baptist! SO WHAT!?

THIS IS A HALLOWEEN / HAUNTED HOUSE WEBSITE! Let's leave it at that! You want to talk religion, do it as a PM to one another. I'm of the mind that when it comes to Halloween it's all about scaring people, having fun, getting to dress in cool costumes/makeup, working on the haunted house, not to mention the blood/guts/and gore! I believe in God, but NO, I am NOT a christian. In fact, I don't even have a religious preference! I believe there IS a God, the SAME God that created the heaven & earth I walk upon, the SAME God that created the air I breathe! If you want to talk about religion find yourself a religion website. Keep it off HauntWorld! I AM IN NO WAY TRYING TO OFFEND ANYONE, just stressing a point, THIS IS A HALLOWEEN WEBSITE.

WeAreTheUnion
06-18-2010, 10:48 AM
Not to be a jerk...but you did just revive a 6 month old thread to say we should all stop talking about the thread's subject...

SomeThingInTheIce
06-18-2010, 10:58 AM
lol. God works in mysterious ways. lol.

Not to be a jerk...but you did just revive a 6 month old thread to say we should all stop talking about the thread's subject...

newhorror2010
06-18-2010, 10:58 AM
Not to be a jerk...but you did just revive a 6 month old thread to say we should all stop talking about the thread's subject...

LOL no, I didn't revive it. Someone else did. I just finally responded to it after fighting the urge not to. In fact if you'll look at Shane's post *DISTURBIA here we go* you'll see that it was someone else that revived it. I started responding to later posts 4 or 5 down from this one by scrolling to the bottom of the page & reviving them in an attempt to get rid of/ temporarily hide this one.

Darkangel
06-18-2010, 04:30 PM
For the record, God rules!
Also, God is all things and is everywhere so why should it not be a topic everywhere? I'm jusr as comfortable talking about here, or in church, or anywhere why not if you are ashamed of him he will be ashamed of you before his father....


DA

kpolley
06-18-2010, 06:15 PM
Yeah, at the risk of firing this thing up again, I have to agree with DarkAngel. This silly idea that Christians (or Muslims or Jews or anyone else for that matter) should leave religion in church is just...well...silly. Look, a true faith in God is a life, not a Sunday morning hobby. I can no more leave my faith at home or church than I can my being male or being 27 or being American. It's who I am. I agree that haunting/halloween are about scaring people, but I do that as a Christian. It seems like the only people that get to express their thoughts on faith openly are aetheists or, sometimes, agnostics. Anything beyond that isn't acceptable for public consumption, but I just disagree with that. If somebody doesn't want to talk about it they don't have to engage the discussion. To tell others they shouldn't, though, is really nobody's place. I wouldn't come here and tell aetheists that they are not allowed to discuss their disbelief openly. Quite the contrary, I would love to get involved in that discussion. I love a good theological discussion...as long as it remains civil and respectful. The point is, Christians have every right to dicuss their faith here just like any other topic can be discussed here. Is it off topic...maybe a little but I'd still argue that to a Christian haunter it isn't possible to seperate the two and therefore is completely relevant.

Can't we all just be civil and respectful? If you don't want to engage in the conversation then simply don't click on the link. Nobody is making anyone read this.

graystone
06-18-2010, 06:32 PM
With God any and all things are possible! I have came to learn when you need him he's there in good and bad and its God that takes care of those who do you wrong! Shane and its He's Awsome! Shane this time!

lurker
06-18-2010, 08:50 PM
God that takes care of those who do you wrong Amen brother! Everyone who has ever done me wrong continue to prosper quite well, so god must be taking care of them. But, I need him to do some smiting for me. How do you get him to smite? Bring on the smite!

IHAUNT
06-19-2010, 07:01 AM
Well said Kip,

My feelings exactly.

I was just about to post something similar to what you wrote but you beat me to it!

Thanks!

Tom

badass
06-20-2010, 09:46 AM
and just then the rooster crowed for the third time...

i am sure some of you know what i mean...

graystone
06-20-2010, 10:56 AM
About Peters denial of Christ. Shane and its Mathew 26:34 74-75 as well as references in Luke: 22:34 60-62 and John 13:38 and Mark 14:30 Shane this time!

lurker
06-20-2010, 04:00 PM
Denial of faith is different than the constant proclaiming of it in an open forum. Faith is proclaimed through silent deeds and prayer.
Matthew 6:1-8
1 "Be careful not to do your `acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

2 "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

5 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."

Twin Locusts
06-20-2010, 04:31 PM
Thank you Lurker; now I have a passage to help explain why I'm repulsed by atheletes, and others, pointing to the heavens every time they know they have an iso cam on them.

kpolley
06-20-2010, 10:55 PM
Lurker,

while the passages are true, they are being used out of context. The point is not to hide your faith. I could give you hundreds if not thousands of sciptural examples to the contrary. Most notably, the great comission commanding Christians to go into all nations preaching and teaching the Gospel. The verses you quoted are meant to speak to the heart of the individual. What Christ is saying is not that we should hide our faith, but that acts or words of faith done publicly to show how Godly someone is are worthless. The religious teachers of His day would stand on the street shouting prayers to show everyone how holy they were. This is what Christ is speaking out against. Not an open and honest discussion of one's faith. They are two very different things.

As for "God taking care of those who wrong us"...well...we live in a fallen world and we can't expect justice until the fall has been undone. One day justice will be restored.

MDKing
06-21-2010, 12:43 PM
I got 4 word for you to remember...

Know God -- Know Salvation
No God --No Salvation

Allan

WeAreTheUnion
06-21-2010, 04:11 PM
I got 4 word for you to remember...

Know God -- Know Salvation
No God --No Salvation

Allan

It's exactly this kind of rude garbage that drives a divide between us atheists and christians.
If you truly believe that I'm subject to YOUR concept of afterlife to punish me for not believing in YOUR concept of deity, that's fine, but why do you have to come out and say it like that?
Oh well. I guess I'm going to hell along with the other 4 billion people currently alive who didn't pick the right religion. Whoops :(

An open mind and a little tolerance can go a long way, my friend. You believe what you believe, I believe what I believe. Someday we'll all find out who's right - why trash each other on the way there?

MDKing
06-21-2010, 05:57 PM
Practice what you preach about having an open mind. I posted what I believe going out to other believers of God, regardless of faith. This thread in particular is a thread about those here that are Christians, not atheists. Take your hollow beliefs and start your thread don't come at me with an attitude. If this was an atheist thread as a Christian I would respect your beliefs, so YOU should do the same on a Christian thread...


Allan

kpolley
06-21-2010, 08:27 PM
WeAreTheUnion,

I do understand where you are coming from...that you feel as though Christians are trying to shove their beliefs upon you and, at times, that's probably not far from the truth. One thing that I think is lost sometimes on Non-Christians, however, is the motivation behind the speech. True Christians who are trying to spread the Word as we have been instructed to do are not trying to brow beat you or attack you. Rather, they are trying to share THE most important information they have with you. Penn Gillette, who is a very well known aetheist, has commented on this himself. He has said that he doesn't respect any Christian that doesn't evangelize. He likens it to seeing a man standing in the middle of the street, seeing a car coming at him, and not telling him to move. Christians believe that there is only one way to salvation and that is through Christ. We also believe that we are commanded to spread that message to everyone we can. We believe that without Christ there is no salvation and without salvation there is no reconciliation to God. That is a message that is too important to be hindered by social awkwardness or political correctness.

Whether or not you come to accept the Gospel is up to you, but it is up to us to spread it. I can't make you believe as I do nor would I want to. If you or anyone else wanted to have a rational, level-headed discussion about why I feel that way and why I have come to believe the Bible as truth I'd be more than happy to have that talk. If not, that's fine too.

I can tell by your post that you feel offended by the comments that have been made here and for that I am sorry. I am posting all of this in an attempt to explain our side and hopefully show you that there is no harm intended. In fact, it is just the opposite. Christians don't think they are better than anyone else and we certainly don't think we have all the answers...we just believe we know the One who does.

WeAreTheUnion
06-21-2010, 09:10 PM
Practice what you preach about having an open mind. I posted what I believe going out to other believers of God, regardless of faith. This thread in particular is a thread about those here that are Christians, not atheists. Take your hollow beliefs and start your thread don't come at me with an attitude. If this was an atheist thread as a Christian I would respect your beliefs, so YOU should do the same on a Christian thread...


Allan

First of all, I did not intend to demonstrate a closed minded mentality or disrespect your beliefs, so I apologize if you interpreted my post that way. From my perspective, you came in here and said something to the effect of "if you're christian, you're good to go. If you're not, you're gonna burn in hell, sucker!"
All I was asking was if that's what you believe, please keep it to yourself because it comes off as closed-minded, it's disrespectful, offensive and it serves no purpose except to belittle those who don't share your faith. Admittedly, I said it a little abrasively, but I was upset.

Second, this is not a christianity appreciation thread. This is a thread discussing whether or not the members of this forum are christian. My comments on this subject should be every bit as welcome as yours, as they are equally valid. I either am or am not christian. Either way it's relevant to the discussion.

Third, both of our beliefs are based very strongly on blind faith, so for you to call mine hollow is downright silly - not to mention incredibly hypocritical coming from someone accusing me of being closed-minded.

MDKing
06-22-2010, 05:43 AM
You say that we both base out beliefs on blind faith but I disagree. Everyone is blind until they open their eyes. My faith is cemented everyday. Once you learn to see that God is in control and responsible for all things good, your faith will grow.

I've known a few atheists in my lifetime. From how I see it an atheist is one disaster, one large stroke of bad luck or turn of events away from turning to God for help. I've seen it. Problem is, too many think of God as a lawyer only turning to him when they need help or are in trouble...

Kip has offered to have a discussion on his beliefs why not take him up on his offer...

Allan

graystone
06-22-2010, 07:36 AM
god is great! I have never understood why a person would think we were pulled from a monkeys butt! Lets go on that belief for a moment did the atheist out there ever stop and think how monkeys evolved? pssssssssst here is a suggestion GOD! I could never go through life knowing when I die that't it if I were to think that I would have to blow my brains out as what's the point in going through life as hard as it is with no hopes of a better place. Shane and its god loves and forgives all! Shane this time.

P.S. This is just my thoughts being brought to this thread if your beilefs are different then thats you as I still long for the streets if gold!

badass
06-22-2010, 12:27 PM
and i heard a voice call down from heaven above..

it said

go out now and strike fear in the hearts of children..
use images of all that is evil...
it shall be called entertainment....
and for this you will be rewarded...
and known for eternity as the holy haunter hypocrisy.....

heretics usually do not perceive their own beliefs as heretical ......

Jolly Pumpkin
06-22-2010, 02:31 PM
I think this is just a stupid conversation to begin with. How can one person say their religion is more important than someone else's? People are just arrogant. I believe there is a God, but I could be wrong. I believe there is a Heaven and a Hell, but how do I know either exist or not. I'm one of those people that realize that not everything in the bible is fact and that many stories are made up to teach a lesson.

I try to live my life the best I can and most people don't follow the teachings of the Bible 100% including myself. As a matter of a fact, it's impossible. For the most part I'm a good person, but I'm not ever going to say one religion is better than another or someone is wrong about what they believe. If they are a genuinely good person I don't really care what their religion is. I don't even care to ask what their religion is. I don't care if they're an Atheist, Catholic, Christian, Jewish or whatever. If they're a good person, they're a good person.

Darkangel
06-22-2010, 03:15 PM
Aren't Christians and Catholics pretty much the same thing?

I don't consider a haunter a heretic it's all make believe.

Also all people who follow a faith always believe theirs is the best. But it is well ducumented that Jesus performed miracles as told by even non-Christians. Until other prophets from other faiths perform miracles Christians have a right to believe their religion is very significant.

DA

Jolly Pumpkin
06-22-2010, 03:48 PM
I was raised a Catholic. Christians and Catholics are similar. I went to a Catholic gradeschool and a Christian High school. The church services are much different as are many of the beliefs. But when it comes down to it they are similar, but different. Click on the link below to read what the differences are.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_differences_between_Christianity_and_ Catholicism

tchaunt
06-22-2010, 04:12 PM
Guys, yet again, is this debate really worth it? Many of you have plenty of work to do to get your haunt or the haunt you work for ready for this season. It doesn't matter whether you're green or yellow, theist or atheist, haunt owner or enthusiast, there's a reason we all signed up for this forum and in its most basic form, it's the same reason: our love for haunts. Some arguments are worth having (for instance, arguing over the best approach for billboard advertisements [gore vs. grunge]), but how is this going to help anyone in the industry?

Jim Warfield
06-22-2010, 05:38 PM
People not haunters may read it and come to the conclusion that all of us are not agents for satan.
Great "god" Buck, maybe?

kpolley
06-22-2010, 05:46 PM
badass,

I have to say that it seems like a pretty HUGE leap to call Christian haunters heretics. Any legitimate Christian church or denomination would reserve such a strong word for only the most grevious of offenses. Only those who denounce the fundamental doctrines of Christianity are guilty of heresy. For instance, denial of the Trinity, denial of Christ's divinity, denial of the absolute and complete authority of scripture, etc. would be considered heretical...not being a haunter. I don't know why anybody needs to resort to name calling in an effort to discredit someone else's faith. That seems childish.

The conversation keeps coming back to "Christians think they are right and others are wrong." Here are a couple points to consider:

1. TRUE Christians do not think they are "right" when that word implies that they have it all firgured out. We do believe that we are following the one true God...but to say that we are right or that we don't make mistakes is laughable. In fact...it might be close to heresey...;)

2. Of course we believe that our faith is the best option, otherwise we wouldn't follow it. Before you choose to jump down my throat about that...think on this. Haven't people in just the past couple posts attacked us saying either we're heretics or arrogant? Do they go on to back up those thoughts with some kind of evidence? It sounds like they think we are wrong and that they have the correct way of looking at faith/religion. It's no different.

3. As unpopular as this statement will be...Christians know and accept that the Gospel is going to be offensive to some people. Christ himself warned us of this fact centuries ago. He said that it would be offensive to some people, that we would be persecuted because of it, and that many of us would even die for it. It is never my intention to offend anyone and I try very hard to never be offensive with my language especially in a conversation like this. I may fail sometimes, but I try. If the listener/reader is offended, however, my the message itself and not the delivery...that is if the Gospel itself is what offends you...I won't apologize for that. The Bible teaches many things that are offensive to us. I'm offended by things that It teaches...and that's a good thing. We are fallen creatures in a fallen world. The Gospel should be offensive to us as it is intended to buck our sinful nature.

Finally, I just want to challenge this very common notion that many people realize the Bible isn't 100% fact and that it's a lot of made up stories. That is heresy. 2 Timothy 3:16 says "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness". To say that parts of the Bible are untrue or made-up is strictly contrary to scripture and, therefore, heretical. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence to back up what the scriptures say. Read C.S. Lewis' Mere Chrisitanity or Tim Keller's The Reason for God for some amazing insight into proofs of the Bible's credibility. I think they are important reads for Christians...but for Non-Christians alike. To be true to your faith, whatever it is (Christian, Aetheist, etc.) you should always be willing to explore the opposing view points. It will challenge your own and in the end change them or strengthen them. I haven't started it yet, but for my next long plane or car ride I plan on reading Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion. I've read a couple chapters...and it's a tough read for me...but his challenges of the scriptures strengthen my faith. I think on them, read scriptures pertaining to them, pray on them, and come out better on the other side. I encourage all non-believers to challenge themselves as well. Read Keller's or Lewis' book and tell me it didn't challenge your thoughts on faith. Heck...it challenged MINE!

I know there are those who wish this thread would die. I'll be honest with you, though...as long as people are having a discussion here and as long as people are raising objections to my faith I really can't help but post. It's not a "I have to have the last word" or a "I have to prove them wrong" kind of thing, it's more that I just love these conversations. Faith is a fascinating topic of discussion for me and I'm always excited to talk about it with others...especially those with differing views.

I think I've said enough for now...my fingers are tired...

badass
06-22-2010, 09:18 PM
ok peace my brothers..
understand this is a discussion...
and that means it is an exchange of ideas..
not an attack on you our your beliefs...
i am not interested in being addressed like i am doing this...
i am doing the same thing you are...discussing opinions and ideas...
i havent gone and read what everyone has said...
merely expressing what i have been taught by theologians about this


now for todays lesson

a heretic is someone that is doing something that conflicts with the standard belief...like albert einstein or any of the great scientist ..or Galileo....any ways.. times change remember the church used to kill people....lotsa people...but now they see things differently...how times change but being a christian doesnt

could it be that
Public sentiment easily blinds todays so called christians as to their obligations as true christians...??

by definition...A true christian loves and serves the lord supremely and above all else in this world...even above your own family...and should only do the lords work
in recreation or employment or anything else.....and anything that conflicts with this is worldliness

a haunted house by nature ...glorifies evil....not god....hmmmm..like it or not.....

i studied theology at prep school..and am friends with and have had lengthy conversations with the dean of st charles about this subject and my operating haunted hooch....

reminds me of a lesson
None are so efficient agents of the devil as the inconsistent professors of religion...
which means...
the truths of the gospel are simple..but the world is soo greatly removed from the truth of the word that christians greatest duty is to illustrate the word of god in life in all they do...it is manifest that a true christian obstain from anything that does not glorify god or instead of the professed christian be glorifying god..but actually be dishonoring him...

soo i ask..
how does your haunted house glorify god..???..
is it ok in the eyes of the lord to proclaim the gospel by day..
and splatter blood for entertainment by night???

kip....dont call me childish...
i am not trying to discredit you or anyone else
i am not name calling..
for i am standing beside you in this....
but we all must stand before the lord alone...

and he might ask us

peace

badass
06-22-2010, 10:09 PM
The heretic anthem rawks...
hell..everyone i know will be there..
and atleast it will be warm..right ?


cEk1Tja42Y4&hl

drfrightner
06-23-2010, 04:48 AM
does this thread EVER END?

kpolley
06-23-2010, 10:51 AM
Badass,

I respect your opinion...it's one I have heard many times before when it comes to Christians and haunting. I do have a couple things to say about it, though.

1. You are still using the worldly definition of the term heretic in a Christian context and that doesn't work. A heretic, when using the term applied to the church, is someone who openly defies core doctrine. Again, these include Christ's divinity, the Trinity, Bible Authority, Creation, Christ as the only path to salvation, etc. You can call someone a heretic if you like, but it doesn't apply here if these very specific criteria aren't met.

2. I know there are haunts out there that glorify evil...I wouldn't be a part of one. I think everybody here knows that I work with Larry's haunts, specifically The Darkness, and I wouldn't work there if I wasn't comfortable with it. To say that it glorifies evil is a bit of a stretch. To begin with, the idea of "glorifying" something is that we present it in such a way that it appeals to people...that they want to have it or be a part of it. To glorify sex is to make others want to have sex too. I've never had anyone leave our haunt saying they wanted to be a mummy or a zombie or a killer for that matter. Fun we build, to get right down to it, are elaborate fun houses. They are meant to scare people, yes, but they are meant to be fun. I wouldn't be a part of a haunt that delves into the darker stuff with satanic imagery and whatnot. We have had actors paint upside down crosses on their heads and whatnot and I always have them change it if I see it. It's just not something that I would let go into the haunt. That's where I draw a line.

3. I have a close group of Christian friends that I really respect and look to for guidance on spiritual matters. Each year I run my new product ideas past them to get their feedback. Just last year we altered one of my pieces that they felt was going too far. I will never produce a product that I have moral conflicts about and I work very hard to stay true to that and my friends act as a voice of reason when i do misstep.

I think it's obvious that you don't share my faith and that is your choice. However, as I said before, I'd challenge you to be much more open to differing opinions to your own and read some much more enlightened and much more eloquent writers than I. I know it has helped me to better understand why I believe what I believe.

Raycliff Manor
06-23-2010, 11:40 AM
Free virtual hugs coming out to ALL my haunt Brothers and Sisters!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN8CKwdosjE&feature=player_embedded

Enjoy!

Kel

SomeThingInTheIce
06-23-2010, 11:51 AM
For the love of God and all that is holy, LOCK THIS THREAD!

rwrussom
06-23-2010, 12:15 PM
As Christians, we acknownledge the basic premiss that we are wrong, we are fallen and only through Christ do we have hope. That is a far from being right, perfect, or having all the answers.

What always concerns me in these discussions, are the people who say they believe in god or a higher power and then insert thier own definition. A good employee has a great interest in what will please his employer, a good servant will seek to plese his master. Why is it when faced with a supreme being, many choose not to search for the answers to what is pleasing to him?

With regard to Christians running or working a haunt. I would agree that is a slippery slope. Do they use the oportunity to reach nonbelievers? This was of great concern for me as i started down the professional haunt path. We take the oportunity to shed off some of the unfun, boring stigma that may follow Christians. We have a blessing/prayer before every show before cast is sent to places. While attendance is not required, most look forward to it. We have had kids from homes without religion begin attending youth groups. We also use the oportunity to promote some community minded ministries I am involved in with videos intermingled with other line entertainment videos.

Being a Christian haunter is an oportunity to reach people, do you TRY to live up to the challange?

Im glad this issue stays in one thread. For those interested its here, otherwise the forums are for haunt discussions. On the other hand, you must cast your nets where the fish are.

ClusterOne
06-23-2010, 12:38 PM
Religion and politics, two things people shouldn't talk about...and this is the reason, it never ends!

Let's all give virtual high fives to each other and move on to haunt building!

-Joel-

Raycliff Manor
06-23-2010, 12:58 PM
Just an FYI, in response to an email that was sent to me, and for clarification, when I said I was sending virtual hugs to ALL my Haunt Brothers and Sisters, I meant ALL Haunters, regardless of your beliefs. ;)

Kel

WeAreTheUnion
06-23-2010, 01:26 PM
You say that we both base out beliefs on blind faith but I disagree. Everyone is blind until they open their eyes. My faith is cemented everyday. Once you learn to see that God is in control and responsible for all things good, your faith will grow.

I've known a few atheists in my lifetime. From how I see it an atheist is one disaster, one large stroke of bad luck or turn of events away from turning to God for help. I've seen it. Problem is, too many think of God as a lawyer only turning to him when they need help or are in trouble...

Kip has offered to have a discussion on his beliefs why not take him up on his offer...

Allan

My faith is very strong. I have full faith in science and logic. I have no need for a god on top of that.
I see god as an escape from having to deal with death. It makes life more pleasant, but I can't possibly believe it. It doesn't make any sense.
I'm trying really hard to be respectful and nice in this conversation, and what I'm getting back is "well someday you'll see why you're wrong..."
Don't condescend me. I'm not a naive child who's going to wake up and see the err of my ways.

To everyone complaining about this thread - I don't see anything wrong with an off-topic discussion like this.

MDKing
06-23-2010, 01:42 PM
Wearetheunion, why have you not addressed any of Kip's comments???


I'm all for science and logic too, the more you learn about science and logic the more you realize there is a God.

To all those complaining about this thread, we here understand that you are not interested and feel free to skip over it while reading the other threads. Clicking on it and reading it then complaining about it seems rather pointless when you don't HAVE to read it...


Allan

rwrussom
06-23-2010, 02:50 PM
Christianity is not about makeing death easier, it comes for all. It serves much more to make life better.

A true atheist is a rare thing. I would find it difficult to accept that life has no purpose. That all existence is random chance, coins being flipped trillions of times until eventually heads comes up enough to create something, tough sell for me. Now choosing to believe in science and logic does not disallow belief in God. But, an atheist who chooses to be lead by science and logic also would appear to come under the comtrol of logics evil twin, random chance. Again, not something I would choose to surrender to.

From a logical point of view, isn't atheism risky? If one could accept that it is not possible to know if there is a God for certain (what is believed is not fact), then wouldn't logic dictate that one buy the insurance on that bet? The cost of the insurance is relatively small compared to the price of loosing the bet.

kpolley
06-23-2010, 03:19 PM
rwrussom,

you make some fantastic points. Glad to have you in the discussion.

I'll make this one quick...I just wanted to comment on the reply that God is just a way to deal with death. It goes right along side beliefs that religion is meant to make people behave or keep children from doing wrong. I believe all of these opinions are only justified if you have never really explored the scripture. I'ts like me saying that I know what South Africa is like since I have heard people talk about it once or twice. If I dug deeper, researched, or even went there I would find my thoughts on it to be very different then the reality.

Christianity is not a way to deal with death. Instead, it is an acknowledgement that this world and everything in it is broken, that WE broke it, and that only God can fix it. I don't think anyone would disagree that the world is majorly flawed...so at least we're all on board with the beginning. Christianity is about forming a real, honest relationship with the God that created this world and everything that inhabits it. I think a study of the scriptures would produce that view 100% of the time. Choosing to then reject the scriptures is another issue, but to boil the Gospel down to end of life comfort is unfair and unrealistic.

Oh yeah...thanks for the hug Kel. ;)

graystone
06-23-2010, 03:34 PM
I would like to know too. I seen this thread as a poll on who was Christians many believe in God but do not attend worship which is what we as Christians are commanded to do. I never seen where the person that started this thread asked who did not believe in God so I will ruffle some feathers here and say if your not a practicing Christian then jump in on this topic maybe we can help change that. If your an Atheist then go start a poll asking who does not believe in God and I assure you it will not hardly have any post at all. Shane and it's I got a box of bananas if ya need them! Shane this time.

Jesus Loves Me This I Know For The BIBLE Tells Me So!

badass
06-23-2010, 08:18 PM
sooo ok brother kip...
lets talk religion..
now understand i am not an uneducated man who will tolerate your accusations as to my beliefs...
you said you enjoyed having a respectful discussion...
and thats me brother....
so act like it...
because thats all i am here to do...
do not accuse me of not having faith....as obvious as you my THINK it is...

we are haunters....this is a haunters forum..
hence my involvement here.....
we are discussing an important issue...
soo act like it....
this is an opportunity for you to rise up and be a christian..

is haunting the glorification of evil...
hmmmmm...
would jesus do it????....
would God say..we need more maggots over here..
the satan needs bigger horns up there..
and wheres my serial killers...i need some serial killers over here...
now
i am not gonna answer ..
but its somethin to ask yourself...
is it not something of this world to make entertainment out of bad and evil things..??
i will tell you i personally know some religious scholars who think it is hypocrisy and heresy for a true christian to do this......
i know its fun..
i know its not real..
i know you have no issues with doing it....
but you say other haunts glorify evil...
really...but yours doesnt..???
in any way...???
no knifes in the head..
no huge slayer sittin up there..
no bloody actors..

lets talk heresy...
now according to your definition it is to openly defy the bibles authority...
because as christians we should be the living word...
do we do this ???
i guess we must ask ourselves some important questions..
and be willing to accept the conclusions....

soo lets get out our bibles..
thats where the answers are..
the bible is infallible and is a guide to the christian life..which is living the word of the gospel....

but before we begin kip
first thing that comes to my mind is..
your definition of christianity is accepting that the world and everything in it is broken..we broke it..and only god can fix it..wtf..
soo where in the bible does it say that..??
or are you a new world prophet ?
makes me think of a verse..
mathew 15:14 if the blind lead the blind then they both fall into the ditch..
and also
proverb 14:12 the ways of men seem right but are the way of death..

second..
lets talk about glorifying evil...'
your definition is that it is glorifying if people want to be a part of it..
or want to do it...
.reminds me of being taught to glorify god..
which is what a true christian should always be doing ...glorifying God in all things..
lets find some examples shall we...
1st pet 4: 7-11 the end is near.have charity and hospitality without grudge + minister as a good steward that god in all things be glorified...
Phillipians 2:13 let god worketh in you to do his good pleasure
colossians 1:10 be fruitful in every work
hebrews 13:21 make perfect in every good work..to do his will which is
pleasing in his sight..through jesus be the glory for ever
john 3:21 doeth truth that his deeds my be made manefest.
ecclesrates 12:14 for god shall bring every work into judgment..every
secret thing ...good or evil
psalms 119: thou puttest away all evil of earth
2 tim 4:5 watch thou in all things.make full proof of the ministry..
john 3:20 pleasure in gods sight
john 8:14 do the deeds of your father

1 corrinthians 10:31 whatever you do..do all in the glory of the lord give no
offense..
Titus 1:16 though they profess that they know god..their works deny him...

sooo anyways.
if your not following the words of the book then heresy comes back up according to your own definitions...

i think God made it pretty clear that he wants christians to talk the talk and walk the walk...
and if we as haunters arent glorifying god in all we do..then we are not doing what he asked of us...

brother kip...you said you like theological discussions..
me too..
i implore you...to use this opportunity to rise up and justify your views to me..and GLORIFY GOD..
for
To be labeled “Christian” is to be “Christ like” and to conduct ourselves in the manner that He would, that our Father may be Glorified. Even in the manner of prayer, we should seek NOT ONLY for the fulfillment of the need, but SEEK that through it ALL, God would be glorified, as the Lord himself declared in His word: “And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the FATHER may be GLORIFIED in the SON” (John 14:13).



Thus, let us not shriek in terror nor cower in fear when faced with tremendous obstacles, like a few questions from the bad ass...
but rather declare with BOLDNESS and FAITH the word of the Lord and REJOICE for God shall be Glorified through it all!



Let us not run from great challenges or the testing of our faith, but rather run to them with the full expectation of seeing the Glory of the Lord. When persecuted and shamefully treated, REJOICE and be GLAD! Glorify God in it all!



You may say, “how can I possibly be glad in the midst of sorrow?”

let me tell ya something brothers and sisters...i know sorrow...

YOU SHOULD BE Glad for he has ALREADY DECLARED the outcome being victorious for you, IF you BELIEVE. For His word says that many are the afflictions of the righteous….. now, if it ended here we would probably have cause for sorrow but it goes on to say, but the LORD SHALL DELIVER HIM FROM THEM ALL! Not that He would deliver them from “a few”, or maybe “one”, but HE SHALL DELIVER HIM FROM THEM ALL!!



As it is written: “If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for The Spirit of Glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is GLORIFIED. But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men’s matters. Yet if any man suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him GLORIFY GOD ON THIS BEHALF.....” (1st Pet 4:14-16)


and again “Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake. REJOICE ye in that day, and LEAP FOR JOY; for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets....” (Luke 6:22-23)






In our actions, in our speech, in our behavior one towards another, in our work, in our preaching the word and sharing the gospel, in our giving, in our receiving, in our gladness and in our sorrow, in our sufferings, and in our tribulations, friends in ALL WE DO, let us seek ALWAYS to “GLORIFY GOD IN ALL THINGS.....”

sooo tell me kip..
how does having evil , and scary images for mans entertainment..glorify god and not the devil....??

sounds worldly to me..
trust me..
i am NOT casting stones...
like i said before we are in this boat together...

but if we arent serving gods will..and glorifying god...then arent we all heretics ..doing what is accepted in this world and what we as humans justify ...
but
not what God asked of us....


i am off my soap box and
this is my last post on this subject...

next time..
lets talk about abominations....
now thats where the bible really gets interesting...

peace

shredman
06-23-2010, 08:58 PM
Look guys, I started this threat OVER A YEAR AGO and it is STILL GOING ON! We all agreed on putting this thread to rest! Please quit bringing it back! I SHOULD NOT HAVE STARTED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE! WE ALL BELIEVE DIFFERENT THINGS BUT WE ALL HAVE THE SAME INTEREST AND THATS HAUNTING! We get to choose what we believe and should NOT be hated over it! I've realized that, now can't everyone else?

kpolley
06-23-2010, 11:26 PM
Badass,

First and foremost...if I offended you by suggesting that you didn't share my faith I apologize. Your comments seemed to support that, but I assumed and I shouldn't have. That being said...

Excellent questions and I'd like to try to answer them as best I can...knowing full well we may NEVER see eye to eye and that's fine. Again, not my goal to force you to see things as I do but to merely show why I believe what I do and let you decide. (Quoting the Joker) Here..we..go!

"but before we begin kip
first thing that comes to my mind is..
your definition of christianity is accepting that the world and everything in it is broken..we broke it..and only god can fix it..wtf..
soo where in the bible does it say that..??"

Okay...first that the world and everything in it is broken.

Genesis 3 details original sin...when the serpent deceived Adam and Eve and they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This is the fall. The fall is detailed in Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. God details exactly what the fall entails including turmoil, strife, and eventually death. It was at that moment that perfect creation, the Garden, was disrupted and sin entered the world. Before the fall, God literally walked in the Garden with Adam and Eve. Once the fall occured, things changed. Sin is what seperates us from God. He is holy...and after the fall we lost our righteousness and therefore were seperated from God. The fall is the "breaking" of the world and everything in it.

Second...we broke it.

Again to Genesis 3, it was Adam and Eve's disobedience that resulted in the fall. They directly opposed God's will and in doing so brought sin into the world. There has never existed a human being since then (save Christ) who didn't sin. Romans 3:23 says "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". Our sin seperates us from God. Through original sin, we caused the fall, and we have all participated in it since then. Original sin is us breaking it.

Third...only God can fix it.

Back to Romans. If we expand a bit on the previous passage and look at Romans 3:22-25a it says "This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood." The idea here is that we will remain forever seperated from God unless we can atone for our sins. This is a task we simply cannot complete, however. Isaiah 64:6 says "All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away." Not only that, but Galatians 2:16 says "yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified." Christ was the perfect sacrifice that was necessary for our salvation and our atonement. Christians believe that when Christ died on the cross he literally took all our sin upon himself (2 Corinthians 5:21 "For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.") and that now, through Chirst, we are justified before God. Thus, only God can fix the brokenness of us and this world. Revelation talks about a "new heaven and a new earth" and that is literally a reference to the day that Christ will return and restore this world and all creation once and for all.

You also said that we as Christians should be the Word...and I agree. No arguments there. Are we perfect at it? Far from it. Although we are saved, we are not yet justified (not until Christ's return) so we are still broken people, we simply know our brokeness has been atoned for. So yeah, we screw it up all the time. The point is not for you to look to me or any other Christian and say "Wow, what a holy man/woman. I want to follow God because of their holiness." The point is to see me, a sinner like any other, who has been saved by grace and even though I am not perfect and never will be on my own God accepts me and loves me and has prepared a place for me. You should look at me and not see my awesomeness (because there isn't any to see) but rather the awesomeness of God. His love is not reserved for the perfect...if it were he would have no person to love.

You said God has made it clear that we need to walk the walk and talk the talk...that's true. God expects us to be Christ to a world that needs Him. However, if we go back to this idea that that means I must be perfect I am always going to fail. Don't let me fool you into thinking I believe myself to be the "perfect Christian". I struggle everyday and always will. We all will. Now, if the comment is more to say that haunting is of the world and not "walking the walk" then that's a different discussion. You say some scholars agree...that's fine. Some disagree. I have prayed on this often and, as a Christian, I listen for the Spirit to guide me in all things. God's Spirit (the third in the trinity) is a gift to all Christians as a sort-of "new moral compass"...an active force within us that shows us God's will for our lives. I don't have issue with what I do, and I trust that judgement. I think that for others, it may not be right and that's fine too. I know that God has blessed me with the talents I possess and he has given me amazing oppurtunities to expand on them. He has also given me numerous oppurtunities to speak with those outside the church (within the haunt community) that might otherwise be ignored by "mainstream Christianity". I try to run my business in a Chrisitian way. You see...this idea that we must be in a Christian business to be Christians in business is flawed. We are Christians in all we do. Farming isn't a spiritual endeavor, but a farmer can be a Christian in business. Arguably what I do is differen than farming and much closer to a gray area. I accept that everyone in the Christian community will not agree with me on my job choice and I don't begrudge them that. Chrisitians get way too tied up in details of the faith and lose the big picture. We can disagree on the age of the earth, on the exact meaning of Revelation, or on the religious implications of haunting and still all be brothers and sisters in Christ. So when it comes to whether or not haunting is good for Christians...I don't see a problem but I respect you if you do. The same goes with alcohol, tatoos, and any number of other trivial issues that should not get in the way of the Gospel. The world is broken, we broke it, and only God can fix it.

One final note...you mentioned abominations which is a conversation I have had too many times to remember. I'd be happy to have that conversation again, but remember that what you're refering to is old testament law and Christ is the New Covenant...a new law. He said that he came, not to abolish the law, but to fulfil it in the sermon on the mount. (Matthew 5) There is always a lot of discussion about what that actually means, but in a nutshell Christ gave us a new way order of things. The old law was that if we did these certain things in this certain order and sacrifice animals for our sins, we can atone. The problem is, nobody can actually follow the law...we're broken. Christ showed us a different way. Have faith in Him, and we will follow the law by default. The law can really be summed up as "Love God first, and people second" That's it! If you love God, you won't disobey Him. If you love people, you won't steal from them, lie to them, etc. As for the "don't eat shellfish" or "don't wear polyester" stuff that people always grab from Leviticus, know that these were not commands given because these things are sinful in god's eyes, but commands given to the people at that time for their own good. We have to look at God's nature to see what the true purpose of the command is. Although the law is still important and very much applicable to our lives, the parts of it that were...for lack of a better term...safety, hygene, or customs related...are no longer relevant to our lives. Those that speak to the nature of God definitely are. An easy way to differentiate is to look at new testament scripture. If the new testament backs up the law (don't murder, don't steal, etc.) then it's law that still applies under the new covenant.

I'm interested to see what you have to say. This is exactly the kind of discussion I like. Till next time...

badass
06-24-2010, 03:49 AM
2 corinthians 11:3 i am afraid that just as eve was deceived by the
serpents cunning..your minds may be led astray from
your sincere devotion to christ


well we finally got here...
i am elated..
see imagery and symbolism is very important isnt it Kip..
especially when we are talking about religion and haunted houses.....
it doesnt really matter if we are pretending...

imagery...
its all very very important..


the snake wrecked it all....
we had it made in the shade..
here we are in charge of all the animals in the world..
and we were tricked by an animal..a little snake...
we sure are gullible...


since i know you a lil better now...
i know you understand what i mean..
but you should still explain all the imagery used in this story..
to complete all this..and recap..
and you get the very last word too..


we are made in the likeness of God....
but yet soo easily led astray from what God had asked us not to do...



it has been fun kip...

kpolley
06-24-2010, 06:59 AM
It has been fun!

I don't think the story in Genesis is imagery...I think it happened as it is written. I could be wrong on that and it wouldn't shake my faith if I was, but that's my belief anyway. If you want to consider it as imagery, I think the story still stands firmly on it's own. If we boil it down, God commanded us to not obtain knowledge of good and evil. We decided that we wanted it anyway. We disobeyed God and the fall of creation was the result. I have heard people debate whether the serpent was real or simply a physical manifestation of an internal monogue with herself to help the reader better understand her thought process that led to the fall. You could easily see her having that conversation with herself...and maybe she did...I just choose to believe that the story happened as it is written.

As for us being made in the image of God...we were. And, we were easily swayed into sinning against God and screwing everything up. How did that happen? Well...a couple things to look at.

1. We were made in god's image...but we were not his equal. We did not possess the knowledge of good and evil. In other words, we didn't know such things as good and evil existed...we only knew good as God is only good.

2. We were given free will. God could have made "worshiping robots" if he wanted to, but he chose to give us the ability to make our own choices. (Right off, to those Non-Chrisitans, this will seem like a terrible idea. Like God should have known better. Like he shoudl have seen this coming. I have a lot of thoughts on that, and the scriptures speak a lot about it too, but it is really deep theology I don't want to delve into right now.)

3. We weren't deceived in a direct way by the serpent. No, instead, he appealed to that part of our nature which is most dangerous and so easily manipulated...our pride. Not to go off course here, but pride was what caused an angel who daily stood in the presence of God to think he could overpower God and take control of Heaven (Lucifer, or the devil). Pride is a very dangerous sin. Anyway, back to the serpent. He starts by asking an over-generalizing question to get the ball rolling in his favor. He asks, "Did God actually say, 'You shall not eat of any tree in the garden'?" Well, God didn't say that...and Eve says so. But the foundation is being laid here to get Eve to question things that God did say. The serpent then says "You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." And with that (and it porbably was a longer conversation than 3 sentences but this is what we actually have detailed for us) Eve was misled. Her pride was appealed to. She thought, "I can be like God." and the same sin that caused Satan and 1/3 of the angels in Heaven to rise up against God caused one woman to defy God and, as a result, brought all of creation down with her.

Now you may think that seems hard to believe. I mean, she stood in the presence of God...the PHYSICAL presence of God every day, how could she go against His wishes? Think about this, Peter, one of Christ's most beloved apostles, the one whose confession Christ called the rock on which he would build the church, denied Christ three times in one night as Christ was being hauled off to his eventual crucifixtion. Peter stood in the presenc of Christ everyday. He saw him prefrom miracles. He knew who Christ was, and yet he sinned against him. People can be...and often are...very weak.

Thanks for the discussion. I tried to justify my beliefs as best I could. I'm not a world famous Bible scholar, just another man trying to do what I know is right and trying to show others Christ through me.

Darkangel
06-24-2010, 12:30 PM
Way to go Kip great to read your posts!

DA

badass
06-24-2010, 02:03 PM
Brother
know this..
i am on your side in all things..

but you do have a way of missing the point..
and i was relying on you..
this discussion..like everything God has planned for us...
has a point...
a point why i even replied to this thread in the first place....
and i was counting on you to carry it through..
and there is still time to do so..or not

ahhh the Glory of choice
thats what makes a man a man...
bees must make honey they have no choice..
there is no godliness in that...
no sir..
we have a choice
because thou (mayest) rule over sin
they or should i say we ..
were like children
and like all children..
wanted to grow up..
to escape what was seen as a meaningless and onerous restrictions..
having no idea what that really meant...
they simply exercised free choice which God had given them..
they did what we sooooooo often do..
misused and wrongly desired what was inappropriate
in the eyes of the Lord..

simple as that

anyways..
call me anytime..

Isaiah 57 No Rest for the Wicked


so i must get back to working on the Worlds Most Extreme Haunted House

Rippersrevenge
06-30-2010, 08:01 PM
Voted 'no' as I am fairly certain the world is not flat.

Cheers.

KroneDaddy
06-30-2010, 09:20 PM
Proud Christian

Darkangel
07-01-2010, 05:35 AM
Rippersrevenge, I'm a bit confused about the world is flat comment... Are you saying that the belief that the world was flat was strictly a Christian belief and that it is tied into our set of beliefs? The two have no relation at all FYI...

DA

IHAUNT
07-01-2010, 09:27 AM
Ripper...

The Bible never refers to the earth being flat. Quite to the contrary actually.

Where did you get your info?

Tom.

Twin Locusts
07-05-2010, 03:06 PM
An observation on the responses to the ripper flat remark.

Sounds allusive to Christians having a narrow scope of vision or worldview; a jab in the eye of those that chose yes. Not to be taken literally.

Cheers, is the smirk, shit eating grin, after the jab.

Jim Warfield
07-05-2010, 07:23 PM
the curved parts are not flat but the flat parts are.

HauntedOzarks
07-06-2010, 09:37 AM
Myself and my partners for Haunted Ozarks all go to the same church and while I'm not nearly as outspoken about my Christianity as I probably should be, I do try to live my life with moral principles as close to the Bible as I can. I am pretty opinionated on certain things which my wife hates because I was raised in a liberal household and taught to respect all religions and lifestyles. By running a haunt, I hope to create a safe fun place for kids of all ages to have a good time.

SomeThingInTheIce
07-06-2010, 05:43 PM
The longest thread on Haunt World and it has nothing to do with haunting, Larry must be proud.lol.

darkXmoon
01-03-2011, 09:23 PM
I can't believe I read this whole thread..I want my bandwith back.



An now my two cents:

I'm an Irish Jew by choice and I suck at yet I go to a methodist church because I like the people. Its all a funny story that used to be funnier because I had a Polish last name for a while. What you worship outside your haunt is your business .

How you run your haunt is every ones business. Though religion may play a part, it should never be a main focus. The making of new friends, sharing of ideas, and working together to achieve common goals, these are the things I'm looking for in the haunt I want to work for.

Jim Warfield
01-03-2011, 11:36 PM
Which must mean it is a very long one!
Hey everyone reading this, do you have no problems falling to sleep at night? No guilt, remorse, replays in your brain cells because of something you did that wasn't nice to someone?
This is the first sign, that you just might be treating the rest of us pretty good as you come in contact with others everyday.
It's a way of living that religion helps some of us maintain but unfortunately makes this life unpleasant for others who take things to extremes.
Will the crowd at your funeral be there because they liked you or be there just to make sure you are dead? (as in "Good Riddence!")
I like to think that most of us are doing the best that we can with what we have to work with.

dungmaster
01-04-2011, 07:23 AM
I can't believe I read this whole thread..I want my bandwith back.



An now my two cents:

I'm an Irish Jew by choice and I suck at yet I go to a methodist church because I like the people. Its all a funny story that used to be funnier because I had a Polish last name for a while. What you worship outside your haunt is your business .

How you run your haunt is every ones business. Though religion may play a part, it should never be a main focus. The making of new friends, sharing of ideas, and working together to achieve common goals, these are the things I'm looking for in the haunt I want to work for.



Which must mean it is a very long one!
Hey everyone reading this, do you have no problems falling to sleep at night? No guilt, remorse, replays in your brain cells because of something you did that wasn't nice to someone?
This is the first sign, that you just might be treating the rest of us pretty good as you come in contact with others everyday.
It's a way of living that religion helps some of us maintain but unfortunately makes this life unpleasant for others who take things to extremes.
Will the crowd at your funeral be there because they liked you or be there just to make sure you are dead? (as in "Good Riddence!")
I like to think that most of us are doing the best that we can with what we have to work with.


Jessica and Jim,

I couldn't have said it better myself. I agree with you and Maya Angelou:

"When you know better, you do better."

And I honestly don't understand why anyone cares what religious beliefs other people have if it doesn't affect their haunt business.

Why are we discussing this? I really don't get it.

Dungeonmaster

Darkangel
01-04-2011, 09:03 AM
Dungmaster,

You? Of all people keeping a thread going related to inflatable turds on a haunt forum for so long? I think religion is a bit more important than inflatable turds and bad youtube videos....

Religion is in most cases, maybe should be with others, a part of our everyday lives. Faith is a guide, a moral compass, so it is ever present and to ignore it here would or anywhere be ridiculous.

DA

HELLRAZZORS
01-04-2011, 11:29 AM
Do any of you Christians fear having a Haunt because it doesn't resemble anything that honors the Lord? How do you incorporate your faith in your business?

Greg Chrise
01-04-2011, 11:33 PM
[quote=Jim Warfield;107406]
Will the crowd at your funeral be there because they liked you or be there just to make sure you are dead? (as in "Good Riddence!")
quote]

I better start a "get paid to attend my funeral" advertising campaign combined with some affiliate link action that makes the money to pay the mourners.

darkXmoon
01-04-2011, 11:54 PM
Dungmaster,

You? Of all people keeping a thread going related to inflatable turds on a haunt forum for so long? I think religion is a bit more important than inflatable turds and bad youtube videos....

Religion is in most cases, maybe should be with others, a part of our everyday lives. Faith is a guide, a moral compass, so it is ever present and to ignore it here would or anywhere be ridiculous.

DA

I like that thread actually more then this one. Most of the people that I know on this forum are good hard working people. They lead good respectable lives, raise there children as best they can, and keep good moral values in there haunted houses. So what if some are Christian and some are not, live your life to lead the way to a better day. If you run a bad haunt for the wrong reasons it don't matter what god you believe in because your not going to make it.

I'm not going to post any more in this thread because honestly it seems pointless to me. Any further communication pertaining to this topic can be sent in PM form.

An as for them "stupid" YouTube videos, some are kinda funny.

Darkangel
01-06-2011, 08:28 AM
Those youtube videos, well, my kids think they are funny at least...

screamforadream
01-06-2011, 10:37 AM
^ UH OH! Never realized there were demon spawn running around watching YouTube videos. You could learn a lot from them.

Also, regarding our ongoing PM I was proved rightmost again by someone admitting those videos were funny. Please. Smile a little bit and take some ice out of that thing you call a heart. You'll see these forums as a much more welcoming place. :)

HauntChick
01-06-2011, 11:18 AM
Im not but our haunt owner is and we do say a prayer with the crew before war evey night, a mention is made in our rules room but we don't preach it .
Back to something haunted house related...

I want to ask, does holding a prayer before the night actually help with moral? I mean, obviously anyone who doesn't wish to partake would certainly be welcome to go elsewhere while the prayer is being done. But to those who are christians (which i am not), does it really make you feel better before starting the night? Get you pumped? We're in the bible belt, so many of our haunters are devout Christians (not that our location necessarily means anything).

OR would this possibly alienate those of other religions who aren't getting a special time to "pray" or whatever they wish to do.

So would it just be better to keep the haunt strictly "non-religious", since it tends to be a taboo subject, much like politics. everyone wants to be right, so it's like "don't even go there", which is sad since I'd like everyone to be able to celebrate their start to their night however they want without it being a big to do.

Just a question.

Darkangel
01-06-2011, 12:09 PM
Hauntchick, I'd say leave it up to the actors to decide. If they feel compelled to pray beforehand allow it and respect it, and for those not interested they can do what they do to prepare.


Bobby, I know it could be a difficult concept for you to understand, but PM means private message. So keep the ones posted in your PM private and discuss the public threads like the ones you find here posted on the board for public consumption. Hope you learned something today.


DA

screamforadream
01-06-2011, 04:34 PM
You're right, I learned how unimaginably psycho and rude you are and if you disrespect my efforts again or do not begin being more respectful our entire PM conversation can be made public for all I care. I started the PM out of respect because I didn't think it was nice to call you out infront of everyone, but you keep pushing the envelope. Try me. Keep your disrespectful, rude, ignorant and unwanted comments to yourself or stay off the forum.

Darkangel
01-06-2011, 05:24 PM
I think people here have more important things to do than to care about our conversation. If anyone wants to read it pm me I'll send it to you!

DA

dungmaster
01-06-2011, 05:28 PM
Bobby,

Thank you. I feel I was attacked on this thread and then told not to make it personal on another thread, when I had been nothing but kind to this person up until I was attacked. I'm sorry, but I agree with you and feel guilty at the same time for having bad feelings about anyone, especially someone on these forums. It really makes me sad. Thanks again for voicing what I tried to but obviously couldn't. All the best!

Dungeonmaster

screamforadream
01-06-2011, 06:14 PM
Thanks! I REALLY appreciate that. I have nothing but respect for practically EVERYONE on here, but Dawn and Jason, aka DarkAngel, have done nothing but belittle other people, trash talk the entire forum, and try to force their opinions down SO many peoples throats. I tried to be respectful and message her after DA started crap again on George Maser's thread, and about the Inflatable Turd Thread, (which is actually funny and enjoyable to read lol, thank you guys for that!).

I don't mean to start a war between the few people who may think DA is an upstanding member of the hauntworld forum community, and the people with common sense and half a brain who take her and her husband remarks as disrespectful and outlandish, but DA needs to learn when to just keep her mouth shut when she has nothing to say.

As for our PM, it is VERY long, and makes DA look like a total jerk (surprise surprise), and I feel no need to post it yet, as long as there are other people out there who see the people behind the name of DarkAngel as slanderous, unstable, morons.

Dawn and Jason, if you don't like any of this, don't read it, go home, sit in a corner like you're in time out, and come back when you feel like playing nice. :)

Darkangel
01-06-2011, 06:54 PM
Aside from this thread I'm here to talk haunts. I'm not here to make "friends" and join a "family" I have plenty of both. I try to be honest and I'm not afraid to speak up, it's not my intention to be abrasive.

Bobby I read you message I'm going to refrain from feeding you need for response and attention, at least wait until you've graduation from high school before you demand respect from adults.

Dungeonmaster, I apologize to you for my past discretions.

DA

screamforadream
01-06-2011, 07:13 PM
I highly doubt anyone deems you as a "friend" other than the other crazy, over opinionated jackasses you might talk to once a year.

As for graduating high school? I'm in college, lol. Nice try.

Don't try and suck up now because you realize your false world of you being right all the time is crumbling around you.

I never demand respect from anybody. I simply show my ability to respectful to the majority of the people in my life, and out of respect and common courtesy, they give it back. But you wouldn't know that feeling now would you?

Do everyone a favor and shut up, no one here enjoys your presence.

screamforadream
01-06-2011, 07:15 PM
Just thought of something REALLY funny.

DarkAngel....you're like a turd that won't flush.

And yes, that is referring to a GREAT thread on this very site.

That made me actually laugh out loud. I'm sorry. But it's funny.

drfrightner
01-06-2011, 11:34 PM
I have never followed this thread and really have no clue what its about... seems like we have about 10 million posts and 40 million views on this thing. But when I start getting emails from people telling me how sour this thread has got I had to look into it...

You know there is nothing worse to argue about than religion and politics.

Everyone has their own views and people feel pretty strong one way or another ... I suggest we get back to haunting.

We have a wonderful haunt show coming up, another Hauntworld magazine, the fun of rebuilding your haunts (best part for me), and well the biggest haunt tour ever (LOL) (Shameless plug).

No there are a lot of great things happening, MHC just announced they will tour like 12 haunts, Halloween retail show will merge with the haunt show, lots of great things to talk about than this or name calling.

Lets get this worked out and start some new threads about haunts.

Larry

robert
09-26-2012, 06:12 PM
Agree with Larry on this wholeheartedly.

shredman
09-26-2012, 07:07 PM
Ahh, this forum keeps coming back from the dead!

BrotherMysterio
09-26-2012, 09:10 PM
Ahh, this forum keeps coming back from the dead!

Well, given the subject matter . . .

C.

shredman
09-27-2012, 08:07 AM
Well, given the subject matter . . .

C.

I just don't understand. Larry posted almost two years ago, who the hell went back and dug through pages to go find it and contribute?

-Zack

Dark Tiki Studios
09-27-2012, 09:37 AM
Could one of the moderators PLEASE kill this thread?!?!