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NightmareAftershockLLC
11-24-2008, 07:38 PM
So I have to say, I've always used midnight syndicates tracks for anything Halloween.... Is there anyone here who has used soundtrack music, etc? Is it legal as long as you don't use it in an advertisement? And guidance is greatly appreciated.

NightmareAftershockLLC
11-24-2008, 07:39 PM
Example: new max payne soundtrack... Like one part and would sound good looped in a certain area of the house. Is this allowed?

Jim Warfield
11-24-2008, 08:25 PM
I once looped some copyrighted music and used it in one of my videos but nobody recognised it whereas it was only 4 notes from a side "B" song on an album but it fit what was happening on the video real well. Actually I didn't have to do much to loop it, the needle stuck on the record.
"Needles", "Records", ancient stuff, maybe most of you have no idea of what I speak?

Old Tree Studios
11-24-2008, 10:50 PM
Keegan,

Technically yes, for any public performance of copyrighted music you are supposed to obtain a license. ASCAP and BMI handle licensing of almost all recorded music. Although, I think you're referring to the vid game Max Payne, and I'm not sure about them... but I would bet the copyright holders are listed with one of those two organizations.

If you want to be by-the-book you can check with those organizations and obtain licensing... it's a fairly simple process, but it ain't necessarily cheap.

There are some that might suggest that unless someone from Rockstar Games happens to visit your haunt, there is very very little chance anyone is going to notice or even care.

However, others would then point out that artists make their living off of royalties from performance of their works, so by skipping the licensing process they are being robbed of the livelyhoods.

So I suppose it's up to you now. Which door will you chose?

Here are the links for study purposes:

http://www.bmi.com
http://www.ascap.com

Jim Warfield
11-24-2008, 11:25 PM
A few years ago my business neighbor Charlie's Tavern had a live band playing someone else's music. ASCAP was there, the summons to appear in court 65 miles away was received by Charlie, he hired a lawyer.
This drug on for quite awhile. the band that night made these artistic, musical decisions but they don't go after them, they do that old legal "Deep Pockets" move when suing, the band guys don't have pockets anyone can find.
Charlie ended up paying something like $8,000.oo.
Here is his small town tavern in a county of 15,000? Middle of "Nowhere".
Of course I always have my suspicions that any of the $8,000 ever found it's way to the offended composer of any of that music......

NightmareAftershockLLC
11-25-2008, 06:08 AM
Wow! Thanks to all for your responses. It seems that going through ASCAP will be the best method. I don't want any trouble, and am glad I got personal experiences to help me out. And I was actually referring to max payne the movie, and since it was made by a composer instead of a famous artist, hopefully it won't cost as much!

Jim Warfield
11-25-2008, 09:36 AM
Just buy the music making computer some electricity..."Yum!" Good!"

Raycliff Manor
11-25-2008, 10:28 AM
If you contact Midnight Syndicate, Virgil and many of the haunt music composers, they will allow you to use their music. They will most likely request that you display their posters and/or add their web banner to your website. ;)

Kel

NightmareAftershockLLC
11-25-2008, 11:24 AM
I plan on contacting them (midnight syndicate) in the next few weeks. I just got off the phone with the ASCAP and he is mailing me their rates and contract agreement. Thanks to all for your knowledgeable answers!! :) I will update this once I make some progress with it :)

NightmareAftershockLLC
11-25-2008, 11:26 AM
By the way Kelly, as a side note, fast shipping, and I love the book thus far!! Thanks so much!!

NightmareAftershockLLC
11-25-2008, 11:49 AM
Just got an email from Jason. I will post the agreement terms once I'm home this evening for all to see. Rates are $.0061 per person that attends annually. Rough cost for a 35,000 person haunt is two hundred and fourteen dollars. I'll post up later tonight. This is extremely affordable! Maybe something for alot of us to consider.

Jim Warfield
11-25-2008, 04:53 PM
"Watch your pennies and the dollars will watch themselves."
Watch your half-pennies and the dollars won't watch they will be bored ?
A little more than 1/2 a cent huh?
This is per/song?
So if you played 10 songs it would be 0061 >< 35,000 people >< 10?

$2,140.oo? It does begin to add up trying to fill the air and the customer's ears with music.
So Charlie's Bar paid $8,000 in legal fees and the fine over not paying maybe $12.00? 100 people , 20 songs, times .0061 ??
Am I missing something here?
There was some story about a wealthy bar owner creating such a similair situation in his place to create a test case, that he needed to lose because he had money to gain because of his connections on the receiving end of the money funnel........?
Who knows?

NightmareAftershockLLC
11-25-2008, 04:59 PM
No Jim, this is for a year membership to play any of their artist listed with them. It isn't artist specific my friend. I even clarified with the ASCAP administrator. Flat rate.

NightmareAftershockLLC
11-25-2008, 05:16 PM
Hi Keegan





It was a pleasure to speak with you today. Per our conversation I have attached a copy of the ASCAP license for Nightmare Aftershock. Should you have any questions, please do not hesitate to email or call me. I will follow up with you after the Thanksgiving weekend.


Sincerely



Jason A Cunningham
Licensing Manager, ASCAP


Now, here is the link to my particular PDF file... he made one up specifically for me... I reviewed it, and emailed him back:

http://www.nightmareaftershock.com/ASCAP.pdf

Check it out... then read on...





Jason, upon quick review, is it safe to assume that since I am playing these songs directly from the album, that thelive entertainer section does not pertain to me?


He Replied:






Correct. Mechanical only for your uses.

Thanks

Jason A Cunningham
Licensing Manager, ASCAP

I dropped him another quick note:



Jason,
I am amazed at how reasonable prices are! This entitles me to any artist within your ASCAP organization, correct?

Say that I have an annual attendance of around 35000; I'm figuring this on being around two hundred and fifteen dollars per year?Sorry to be bothersome, I just like having written clarification so that I may discuss this with my business partners.

Thank you again sir!

He responded:


Hi Keegan



Rates you figured are accurate based on number of attendees for mechanical music.



Thanks


Jason A Cunningham
Licensing Manager, ASCAP

NightmareAftershockLLC
11-25-2008, 05:21 PM
To sum it up, we are different than any other business out there. To them, we are considered amusement parks, and only re-broadcasting via speakers. Therefore, live entertainment section does not pertain to us, as well as any other 1% fees. Bars, and other clubs, are extremely more regulated, and also very expensive.

I asked him about your story Jim, he said it sounds about right, because it is a 1% total revenue of the entire business for one year if doing live entertainment (i.e. having a band use this music and do a live performance of it.)

I guess you could say this is a small price to pay for the chance of a lawsuit. But that one percent does NOT pertain to us. Only $.0061 per person that attends in one year! =)

Hope that helps folks! I sure did learn alot today.

Thanks again to everyone's responses.

Jim Warfield
11-26-2008, 11:38 AM
Charlie, rest his soul, seemed to be a guy telling "stories" to those that didn't know him well, I always believed the things he said. ($8,000 remark)
I had always heard that he had once wrestled a bear and beat it.
At Charlie's funeral they had a looped video tape showing him wrestling the bear and pinning it.
Unfortunately the more entertaining film was not shot, right afterwards when the Bear Wrestling promoter stiffed Charlie and couldn't pay out the prize money of $100.
Charlie punched him.
Then he gave Charlie $40, all he had.
I guess the Bear didn't tag-team Charlie when this happened, he had had enough of Charlie already!

Greg Chrise
11-26-2008, 02:18 PM
Round here a shotgun shell only costs 57cents. Play it again!