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Darkblood
12-20-2008, 12:29 PM
Okay...so here's the deal...I've been trying to come up with ideas for 2009 and I have a concept/idea in my head, but wonder if anyone has any ideas (cheaper the better) that would help me flesh this out...

I was thinking of having a hallway (maybe 12' or 16' long) with big circular sawblades sticking out of it on each side (maybe 2 or 3 each side). I had a couple ideas to implement the scare:

1. Have them constantly spinning (of course they're just wood or something light with black paint to make them look sharp-Safety First!) and when people round the corner the lights go out (and they retract still 'hearing them' and it's a dark hallway).

2. The people get to the hallway as they are powering down and retracting...well they start up the dimly lit (or the lights can go out) hallway and the sound of them powering up starts as they're halfway up.

Any ideas what would be best and how to make this happen? Of course fully automated/computer controlled would be easiest...but budget wise I'm not sure?
Any ideas will be appreciated and maybe I can work from there?

Thanks!

Kirk

Nightgore
12-20-2008, 12:35 PM
Like this...

http://www.gepproductions.com/props/saws.html


-Tyler

Boni
12-20-2008, 05:07 PM
So much for cheap, lol.

Allen H
12-20-2008, 05:21 PM
I would re post this in the efx tech forum on their site. But it sounds pretty simple. synching audio with pneumatic events is a little tricky but I also know that they have a box for that. The good news is that almost everything of theirs is on sale now.
http://www.efx-tek.com/
go to the forums and poke around, a ton can be learned there. You can do this in stages also. this season its an actor behind the wall pulling levers and pulling the saws through and hitting light switches, and hitting a digital recording at the right moments (check out efx tech's ap-8). and then you can add pnumatics as you are able to.
On a completely different note, you are not looking for ideas anymore. You have an idea that you need help executing. I find it is much easier to get idea help than it is execution help.
good luck and pm me if you ned anything else in regards to executing this.
Allen Hopps

Darkblood
12-20-2008, 07:13 PM
Boni-I hear ya! ;)

Thanks all for the help thus far. I actually saw the idea in The Linking Ring magazine a couple Halloween issues ago (I'm a member of the International Brotherhood of Magicians and that's their publication). A magician in there from Canada I believe ran a haunt. But it didn't give any tech, just a description.
I didn't have a haunt then...so I put it out of mind...until the other day.
Then I got my Hauntworld #19 today (for joining the HHA a week ago) and BOOM...Tyler you nailed it...GEP Productions. But at almost 7,000.00 that's a bit much for me this year.
Also I wanted to do BIGGER sawblades...theirs look like maybe 2 feet in diameter...I'm thinking of like 5 footers...
Anyways...thanks for the help so far...
Allen-I'll check out their forums!

Kirk

Boni
12-20-2008, 07:26 PM
Alllen H, why PM. I would like to know how this can work as well.

maliciousstudios
12-20-2008, 07:50 PM
Why buy it when you can build it for allot less....

Allen H
12-21-2008, 01:56 AM
Very often I find its cheaper to buy something after doing all the research and pricing out parts. In the past I have started to build something and then after figuring in the screws and hinges it ended costing as much or more to build it.
in this case I would bet that you could come in well under $7,000. I would hate to think that anything posted here would make good vendors lose money. If this were a smaller ticket item I would not help recreate it, in this case I think most of us here are out of the price range on this one, and those who can easily afford it are to busy to build it themselves.
Break down your effect into its basic components, on a sheet of paper. you will need a sensor to activate everything.
you will need an event controller to activate the lights and the pneumatics Fright props and the afore mentioned efx-tech both have good options in that department.
Follow this pattern of listing everything out then consult with efx-tech or fright props ( I mention those companies because they have done right by me in the past Im sure other companies can help but none I can recommend off hand)
Don't forget motors if you want the blades to spin and pistons to move them in and out of the slots. I might recommend a few strobes or possibly sparks of some kind to aid the effect.
Once you have priced out the electrical outsourced components, then start on the basics 2x4's and plywood and such. Get a estimate before you start building and stick to your budget.
good planning will save a ton of money as well as good advice from pros like the guys at the companies I mentioned.
Ok Im off to bed, plan it out then consult a pro to fill in gaps you missed, then decide if you can afford that plan, scale back untill you have a budget and effect you are happy with.
Allen Hopps

Monster-Tronics
12-21-2008, 06:56 AM
To Allen and Malicious Studios


I would hate to think that anything posted here would make good vendors lose money

What do you think is going to happen to GEP? When you show someone a step by step instruction how to rippoff a vendor what do you think is going to happen? Do you think they are going to make money off this?

Why should price have anything to do with whether it’s alright to screw over another vendor?

Are you the same person that owned Creature Crates? And Malicious Studios you elude to being a vendor. If so, do you guys want someone else to post a step by step tutorial on how to duplicate your products?

I hate to sound like a jerk but I think Larry believes this too. If you publish how to make vendor products and put them out of business you are hurting the whole industry. If they are the ones creating new and never been done before stuff, putting the creative vendors out of business you’ll be left with a bunch of rippoff artists making trashcan pop-ups.

If you are cleaver enough to figure something out yourself and want to spend more time and money building something vs buying one, go for it! But if you need a step by step instruction to build something odds are good you should not be doing it anyway. Example: I have people asking me all the time about helping them make things that require 110vac. I don’t show them because I don’t want to be the reason they kill themselves because they don’t have any experience working with high voltage.

Additionally, I would bet that GEP went to extremes to test their product to make sure it is safe. If you cobble something together and use the wrong material say on the saw blade, even cardboard when spinning could take a chunk out of someone. Maybe they are using a special clutch to stop the wheel if someone touches it, hopefully you get the point.

Jeff Londos
Monster-Tronics
Innovators in Haunt Technologies
www.Monster-Tronics.com
See us in St. Louis at TransWorld’s National Haunt & Attractions
Show, booth 714, March 27th -29th 2009
Proud Member of the Halloween and Haunt Vendor Association
www.halloweenhauntvendors.com
www.youtube.com/MonsterTronics

Boni
12-21-2008, 07:23 AM
Actually, I think the more these ideas get out there about how to build your own props, many of the vendors will see an increase in business. I would have never considered buying any type of controller until I saw a set up for one on another DIY haunted house site. At the time I didn't even know there were such vendors. Now I'm in the market for some of they items many of you sell.

There are a great number of us out here that just can't affort to plop down 7 grand on one hallway, 7 grand is my entire budget, not my prop budget, by entire budget.

For me to one day become an active customer of these large prop vendors, I will have to do a lot of DIY projects to build up to the point where my haunt draws enough customers that I can start purchasing thousand dollar propls. So by getting the knowledge out there to help me build my own stuff, you are pushing me up the grid to where my budget allows me to actually buy a prop instead of make one.

I see nothing wrong with talking about how to build props if the vendor does not have a patent or some sort of creative protection on the item. I doubt this vendor was the first one to create a buzzsaw hallway, nor are they the only ones, many of you have probably built one yourself, to say its tabo to discuss is really only hurting the industry, especially those not at the top.

I think this is where many of us get turned off by Transworld and HHA and sometimes this forum, you really have to dig sometimes to get help on what may seem basic and routine to the experts, but needed information to us just starting out.

I think this site would benefit from a DIY forum or a forum for those only in the industry a short time and on a small budget.

Until then, I will keep flipping back to Monster Page, Haunted Illinois, or some of the other great sites that show the how to's on projects.

Monster-Tronics
12-21-2008, 07:55 AM
Two points, if you’re a vendor you should not be cutting another vendors throat.

The other is, if you don’t have the funds to buy from haunt vendors and you post how to make their products that they spent a lot of time and R&D money to create something new and safe for the industry, when you are big enough to buy a real prop from a haunt vendor they might not be around because you put them out of business.

Do you want to go to a haunt that has the same exact stuff that every other haunt has and never changes. Are you going to post your own creative ideas for all to make? Have you ever come up with your own ideas or is your haunt filled with dot rooms and trashcan pop ups. Successful haunts are usually the ones that are creative and go beyond copying the same old stuff.

Jeff Londos
Monster-Tronics
Innovators in Haunt Technologies
www.Monster-Tronics.com
See us in St. Louis at TransWorld’s National Haunt & Attractions
Show, booth 714, March 27th -29th 2009
Proud Member of the Halloween and Haunt Vendor Association
www.halloweenhauntvendors.com
www.youtube.com/MonsterTronics

maliciousstudios
12-21-2008, 07:58 AM
why do you feel obligated to include me in your attack ??? I simply said why buy it when you can build.... I never said how it is built... Im not ripping anyone off, if the guy wants to buy it - he'll buy it, if the guy wants to build it - he'll build it. I know its a big sin to build something yourself these days ( insert sarcasm ) noone in this industry has ever built anything themselves have they? Im sure everything they have had in their haunt has been purchased from a vendor... See, this to me is the problem with this industry, everyone wants help with something - as soon as somone pauses to offer advice there is always someone who decides to step off their high horse to attack those that are willing to help. ( Not that I offered any advice really )

What about all the diagrams on how to build a drop panel in all them haunt mags? Or how about the drawing of Peppers ghost ? I know there are vendors selling these as well.

maliciousstudios
12-21-2008, 08:14 AM
Its a shame that we cant share ideas without the attacks ( not that I even shared one in the first place ) Im confused....

Nightgore
12-21-2008, 08:20 AM
Larry did create a Halloween Tech forum... discuss this there!

I will agree with the "ethics" of posting/talking about how to build another vendors product... but I will say this: If a vendor decides to provide a product that would be so easily duplicated, why provide it? Look at the all the instructions for drop portriats, spinning tunnels, peppers ghost, very simple animations, webber guns, etc. etc. etc... yet some vendors choose to offer said items!

I think this is the stall in our industry... no advancement, no innovation. I mean, you don't see ANYONE trying to build there own Unit 70 demon do you?

Also, think about this... discussing how to build a vendors product on a website whose advertising dollars is paying for! Hmmm... and you all wonder IF Larry will delete this thread! I'd think it would be in HW's best interest to delete this thread... or lose an advertiser! That's the problem with sites like this and Haunted Attraction... to cross over between vendors and haunters... yeah yeah we must all work together, but like mentioned, how many haunters can actually afford to buy everything?

They must make it themselves, and that, IS the problem! -Tyler

maliciousstudios
12-21-2008, 08:30 AM
Okay since youve asked....
Heres an idea that I have.... spawning from your idea, I have come up with a lantern the patron will carry - old rustic lantern customer would be able to control by
"Setting Up Sensors Set In Doorways of the haunt or in different areas so that the latern will turn off or flicker when you approach the sensor."
There ya go....
~Hell Monstertronics could add this to their line up of products right beside their remote control flash lights, hell you could incorporate that into the flash lights as well.... Im not affraid to offer advice or to share ideas, all you had to do was ask..... I wont even take credit, its yours

Jim Warfield
12-21-2008, 09:03 AM
Any loose, hand-held item or item able to be made loose as in" from a display", will have to be sacrificed in the name of "The Show" (and it's cost subtracted from the profit ) because even customers who are sober and seem nice, responsible, carefull will still manage to move, drop, steal , ruin your items that fall into this catagory of accessibilty.
The answer lies with more solid fastening, thicker wood, screws versus nails, and steel, welded or bolted together and of course having items behind plexiglass or out of reach.
I use alot of thin steel cable, sort of hidden behind things to keep things where I want them to be. Don't use steel cable on your wife though, kind words are better.

maliciousstudios
12-21-2008, 09:10 AM
LOL.... hell a few chains around thr wrists then, Its sure to do the trick....lol I dont know Ive seen the flashlights in action seemed to work nicely... no problems that I know of, Im a lover of older rustic fuel lanterns, I figured it would be the cats ass if someone would build a latern isert flicker bulbs - remotely controlled via sensors throughout the haunt that would cause the latern to flicker and go out.... hell some instead of the dimming effect of the laterns it could be dimmed or flicker more as you get closer with a sound effect of wind... Theres allot that can be done there. But yeah your prob. correct..... any loose object becomes a weapon or a momento ....lol

Monster-Tronics
12-21-2008, 09:28 AM
I didn’t think my post was going to be very popular. “Why buy when you can build” when you post your are selling skull’s for $7 and another vendor gets on your post and tells people how to make a $5 mold so you can cast $2 skulls how are you going to feel?

There are not many vendors out there selling cold spaghetti and tables with holes for your head to go through. Most vendors work very hard to bring haunts something new to help the haunt owners business succeed. If haunts fail, vendors fail.

I think Tyler has made some good points. Some mag’s and conventions have lost vendor ads and attendance because they do “how to’s” of vendor products that advertise or spend thousands boothing at their shows.

Haunters have been making their own props since day one and I think that is great! Go for it if you have the time and skills to do so. I’ve seen many “how to’s” that are very unsafe, either working with high voltage, chemicals, pressurized PVC, washing machine valves, lawn valves, air ram door openers, etc… If someone shoots a door opener through a customers head the whole haunt industry suffers.

Malicious, my post was not meant as an attack. If you’re done with your pissing match and you are trying to become a haunt vendor you should think about where this is going. If you would like to try and make & sell my FlashFrights go for it. I make about $5 each on them, which does not even cover my time, let alone the cost of doing business. I will make more money off suing you then off the product. I sell them because I think it is a unique idea and many haunts have found them to be very successful.

Jeff Londos
Monster-Tronics
Innovators in Haunt Technologies
www.Monster-Tronics.com
See us in St. Louis at TransWorld’s National Haunt & Attractions
Show, booth 714, March 27th -29th 2009
Proud Member of the Halloween and Haunt Vendor Association
www.halloweenhauntvendors.com
www.youtube.com/MonsterTronics

maliciousstudios
12-21-2008, 09:58 AM
Hey WTF ?? I gave you credit I said it was a great idea.... DAMN man, chill out... I said it was a great idea apparently you took me the wrong way. I HAVE NO INTENTION ON SELLING LIGHT FRIGHTS OR WHATEVER YOU CALL THEM....

Here... I will quote you, "Are you going to post your own creative ideas for all to make?"

You asked and I responded. I said that I thought it was a great idea and spawned from your idea I offered my own idea.... ( to you ) I think it would be a great addition to your products line.

Would I be angry if someone stole an idea I had ?? Well first how could I tell if the idea was really mine in the first place? We all think we have original ideas, the problem is that 1/3 of us are having the same ideas right now at the same time.

I never thought this was a pissing match, sorry to see you did and got your feelings hurt. I meant nothing by anything I said. I simply said get out there and build some ideas....

If another member can sell skulls for less, I would have to drop my prices or Id have to move on.... no big deal.

And "Suing me?" for what?? Im confused....

Monster-Tronics
12-21-2008, 10:27 AM
Malicious, that comment was not targeted at you, it was a general statement for haunters, vendors etc anyone that can step into the position and see it from that point of view.

I appreciate your ideas, I thought you where trying to be a jerk. As for the lanterns, another person talked about releasing a similar product but never did it. Customers have asked me about building lanterns but most lanterns break very easy. The FlashFrights have been tested to take a ton of abuse. Also lanterns provide 360 degree of light which has been tested to be not as scary as a single pointed flashlight.

Also I built a motion sensor controller years ago when I first released the FlashFrights and at the time there was no interest. Since then many customers have ask me about them so I’m planning a new release for the FlashFright Controller at TW. Thanks you are a good straightman! lol

Jeff Londos
Monster-Tronics
Innovators in Haunt Technologies
www.Monster-Tronics.com
See us in St. Louis at TransWorld’s National Haunt & Attractions
Show, booth 714, March 27th -29th 2009
Proud Member of the Halloween and Haunt Vendor Association
www.halloweenhauntvendors.com
www.youtube.com/MonsterTronics

Allen H
12-21-2008, 11:15 AM
Jeff,
I really dont have time to post a proper reply here, I may later. For now I will say that you are right which is why I put such a huge disclaimer on my post and why I originally said pm me in my original post.
Yes, Im one of the few on here that use my full real name. Yes I was a co-owner of creature crates, my old partner still owns and runs the company. Creature Crates was the first one to sell Jumping stilts to the haunt industry (one of the first ones period) But this year at transworld I saw 6 vendors selling jumping stilts and jumping stilt costumes. The Horrificus costume debued the year after creature crates had a booth at the show. Im not upset in the least at this, Its a part of business, not just haunt business.
I respect your thoughts on the matter but I think you are getting worked up over something very small this time around. I dont think that GEP is really aiming this product at haunted houses, the price is to high. This is more aimed at theme parks in my opinion.Yes the massive ones can afford it, but most will make their own. If I share ideas with someone who is new then he will learn from my mistakes and make a safer product. It helps the industry, it does not hurt it. If someone who asked you for help and was refused and then fried themselves I would say you are partly responsible. Can you charge for the help, sure! You could have given them the advice they needed to be safer. Note in my post it says to consult with professionals ( I assume those professionals will make some money off of it). that helps the industry.
My last quickie point is that I believe the Saw Blade tunnel which you are refering to is overpriced for the haunt market. This post may be the catalist for GEP to realize a new niche and develop single moving saw blade props for $300 each that can then be linked together to eventually create the huge hallway. If they did that and it sold well it would further help the industry.
Jeff I love your products, they are neat and innovative to the haunt industry. If I knew the electronics of how I might make something similar for myself. You have a degree of protection due to the technical knowledge of your product. GEP's tunnel dose not have that, its just a controller and pneumatics hooked up to something different, dozens of companies make pneumatic products. lots of them would be willing to help someone (with their products) make a sawblade tunnel.
I think your anger is unfounded and aimed at the wrong guy. I didnt do anything wrong and left Creature Crates for moral reasons. (I didnt want to copy other products). Relax, have a merry Christmas everyone.
If I dont start loading the car now to go to my inlaws my wife will kill me. I took the time to reply because I value my character and you attacked it.
Allen Hopps

robos99
12-21-2008, 12:33 PM
Personally I think we should have more discussion around here about how to do things yourself. Threads like this are a great thing. Everybody can contribute ideas to figuring out how to solve a problem. Now this might be a touchy subject since the very idea happens to be very close to a product offered by a vendor, but that's just bound to happen. Saying you shouldn't post a how-to that explains how to make a vendors product is like saying you shouldn't post a how-to for building animatronics because you're putting Disney out of business.

Jeff your points about people doing things dangerously is exactly the reason why this should be discussed more. If no one talks about how to do things, then people wind up figuring it out themselves, and sometimes the wrong way. People will do this anyways. Why can't this be a place for them to come and find out it's wrong? I once built some custom power cables for my stage lighting company. I thought I was being all innovative and smart figuring out how to solve a common problem without spending a ton of money. It wasn't until I came to an industry forum offering this advice that I discovered that what I was doing was dangerous and illegal. But that's the only way people will learn.

Honestly I rather doubt a how-to is going to put anyone out of business. Anyone who's willing to build something themselves, likely will try. But after their version of the product breaks after the first season they might reconsider purchasing from vendor. Some people simply don't have the time to build something. If your time is money, then buying it from a vendor will always wind up being cheaper. But no amount of how-to's are going to put anyone out of business. If I really wanted to I could build 90% of the gear I used in my time doing stage lighting. But in the end, did I really feel like finding all the parts, doing all that soldering and wiring and building and hope that the damn thing works just to save some cash? No, because my time is money. So I buy it from someone. It works the same way with building haunt props.

But how-to discussions should not be discouraged around here. It not only helps those with a problem to solve, it helps those who are just casually reading. Maybe some guy running a home haunt didn't realize the dangers of using PVC for pneumatics. But an open discussion about building something might reveal that. But on a broader scale, these discussions get people thinking, get the creative juices flowing so to say. The fact that you're telling someone how to do something should be secondary to the fact that everyone is coming together to solve a problem and offering their own expertise. And the fact that many vendors use this forum is a great aspect. It offers the people who do this for a living to offer their input. No one's saying to give away your trade secrets here. But I'm sure as any vendor reading this thread could have come up with a dozen points of advice, especially concerning safety. And Jeff that was something you nailed on the head, concerning this current project.

I see a thread like this as being the same as a blue-sky brainstorming session, and that's something I'd really like to see a lot more of around here. Maybe the reason this isn't that common (or doesn't seem to be) is that people are afraid of someone stealing their ideas. But as an industry we should be able to have discussions and brain storming sessions without being chastised by a vendor claiming you're trying to take food off their plate.

But that's just my 2 cents worth.

Darkblood
12-21-2008, 12:51 PM
Well, I feel inclined to post again since I started the thread...
First off...holy cow!
I did not intend to start a thread to promote anger and harshness between members! Or to steal GEP's ideas...
I happened to hear about this in a magazine a couple years ago described during a magician's haunt in Canada...and it sounded neat then.
My idea is a lot different than GEP's...their blades are small only sticking out 6-12 inches...I was thinking of BIGGER ones.
And right now I'm in the pre-planning stages and was wondering which way would better utilize the effect. Like would it be SCARIER to do it this way or that. Not the tech side. I was wondering how someone else might do it and why...to promote discussion and ideas.
The 'plug A into B and screw this to that' talk would be figured out later...whether actors control it or what not...what is the safest...etc.
I did mention SAFETY FIRST in my post also.
I'm not out trying to put vendors out of business. Just because a vendor has a product for sale (that I really wasn't interested in because their design didn't fit my tastes for the money) doesn't mean I'm trying to 'rip them off'.
So where does it stop?
Good point on the drop panel argument...heck we built our own this year...are we putting Scarefactory out of business? I think not.
I have seen this board jump on board and help people out in the past and just thought "Hey, I'll ask the guys on Hauntworld for their opinions..."
But unfortunately, I've seen people shred others too...sad...
So, thanks to all that gave feedback...that's all I was asking for...

Kirk

Monster-Tronics
12-21-2008, 01:51 PM
Allen & Malicious, I didn’t mean my post to be a direct attack on either of you, and I am not angry, since I’m a gear head and not a writer I lack tact in my posts that is for sure. I was just trying to point out that vendors should not try to undermine other vendors no mater what the product is or how much it may cost. I apologize if a came off as a jerk or attacking your character, that was definitely not my point. As you well know the haunt market is not a gravy train that some people think it is and we should all be working together.

robos99, your points are well taken. Making “how to’s” may not be directly putting people out of business but it is not helping them I’m sure of that. If you’re looking for professionals to give you safety advice on how to make their products I’m kind of thinking this is why you don’t get the advice. It is just human nature, most will not help if they are thinking you are taking food out of their kids mouths.

Also, working with sometimes dangerous materials should be left to professionals. Many of these “how to’s” are very dangerous and the people doing these could get hurt or hurt others. As far as helping others, I am a member of the Motor City Haunt Club and I have helped a lot of members build their own unique props. In fact I’m doing a seminar next month on how to program a microcontroller, but everything I’ll be showing will be safe for the novice. You could put your tongue on the electronics we will be using and you would not be hurt. I have a degree in electronics and twenty plus years experience but no matter how hard I try I would not be able to give people enough safety knowledge in a few minutes time to dive into high voltage “how to’s”. Sorry I won’t go there. I’ve known several electricians that have been killed.

My products are not immune to being knocked off either. I see people on the other boards trying to figure out my products all of the time. Then the same ones email me and ask a 100 questions. I have people come into my booth and start pulling my stuff apart to try and figure the stuff out or steal it. How do you think I should feel about this? Do you think vendors should hand over all of their schematics and product plans so you can either make it or buy it however you see fit? (I’m not looking for an answer, I’m just trying to make a point) Most of the time I think to myself, go for it! If you are trying to save money you won’t because I know what my margins are and I buy in mass and shipping in mass, speed in production, etc... and I try and tell people this but all I hear is “What you what $70 for a flashlight?”.

Many people just like to build their own props no mater what it costs, just like myself and I have no problem with that. That is how I got into business, I like to build my own stuff and always put my own spin on the prop.

I’ve tried to do some back peddling and explain my intent, again it was not to attack anyone just to bring some light to the facts.

Jeff Londos
Monster-Tronics
Innovators in Haunt Technologies
www.Monster-Tronics.com
See us in St. Louis at TransWorld’s National Haunt & Attractions
Show, booth 714, March 27th -29th 2009
Proud Member of the Halloween and Haunt Vendor Association
www.halloweenhauntvendors.com
www.youtube.com/MonsterTronics

Darkblood
12-21-2008, 02:24 PM
I just thought I'd show a pic...I found it online in color (the one in my magazine is small and B&W). It was in a Shriner's Haunted Mansion in Canada and the haunt has since closed due to lack of a building.

http://www.timothydrake.ca/mansion/sawblades.html

This is what I was talking about.

Kirk

Allen H
12-21-2008, 03:33 PM
um...apology accepted?
Allen H

Jim Warfield
12-21-2008, 06:52 PM
With some people. From the first Transworld I attended I would hear some people say with a startled tone in their voice, "That item is way too expensive! Why do they think it should cost so much?"
Transworld booth $pace+Travel expense$+motel room for 3-4 night$+ other expense$ directly related to being there+ a profit+ plu$ a cushion incase you don't happen to $ell everything you made for a full profit. Now add the cost of the material$.
Some people see the cost of the materials only......?

Darkblood
12-21-2008, 07:57 PM
Jim-I'm not sure if that was directed towards me...but I understand all of that stuff...it's just that $7,000.00 is more than my whole budget.
I'll reiterate and simplify my question...
To those on the board:

Do you think it's scarier:

1. For people to get to a hallway dimly lit seeing sawblades out and hearing them running...lights go out and you still hear them (yet they've moved into the walls so the path is clear but they don't know that)...and they walk forward not knowing if they'll touch one...

2. For people to get to the hallway and you hear them powering down and retracting...then the lights go out...then when they're halfway down the hall the SOUND of them powering up comes on...

That's it in a nutshell...no 'tech talk' or 'how-to' stealing...

Kirk

Raycliff Manor
12-21-2008, 08:09 PM
Kirk,

I would tend to think option 2 would be your best bet for two reasons... 1 - the patrons see the saw blades retracting so they have the impression it is alright to move forward, thereby having less of a negative impact on throughput and 2 - The patrons have already associated the sound with the blades out and spinning and will assume in the darkness that they are on the way back out when they are in the midst of the hallway, thereby providing an effective scare!

Kel

Darkblood
12-21-2008, 08:16 PM
Kelly!
Thanks for the input...I was thinking the same thing...but wanted to try and cover all the bases since there's still a while before next season! ;)
I know I'd be freaked if I saw them retract and headed up the hallway and heard them starting again...
Maybe there's a third or fourth way to do it? I dunno...
Thanks for the input...it'll be noted! :)

Kirk

Jim Warfield
12-22-2008, 08:16 AM
Getting more than one scare or cycle of scares from the same display is fun!
When it gets dark and the sound of the saw blades fill the air maybe an actor should go running passed everyone toward the blades, lights go out and sounds of crunching, screaming are followed by a slight spritz of water on their faces.

Sometimes having lights on allows a first scare as something moves slightly, only noticed by a few, then the larger , louder thing happens more extreme that definately scares the majority of them.
This type of plan sort of sometimes solves the question of scaring the last half of the group after you get the lead people but still using the same item.
This could be called "Degrees of Usage". Like a whisper then a scream.
I love to take this all into another area of (I believe) actually scaring someone by only doing the "whisper" with no scream..then no explanation.
Doubt is a terrible muiltiplying fever once in their brain.(Insert evil laugh here~)

Boni
12-22-2008, 09:21 AM
I really like the second one Darkblood, its bigger, more in there face. The picture of the normal size saw blades looked like if I just stay in the middle, I won't get touched. The big spinning blades look very cool

Another idea off of this would be one of those huge executioner blades that swings back and forth slowly as it lowers, that would look really cool, espcially if you could get some good sound effects of a huge swoosh everytime it came down.

Jim Warfield
12-22-2008, 11:34 AM
Have real and scary looking saws going at the end of a hallway then as they get real close they vanish because you turned out the light on the Pepper's Ghost illusion they were looking at.
Keeping the saws away from being touched via Pepper they could be around the corner , maybe behind Lexon plexiglass?
Has anyone ever had a piece of Lexon break? I never have and people have been beating on it year-round for maybe 10 years now.

Darkblood
12-22-2008, 01:00 PM
Hey guys! Those are fantastic ideas!

Boni-I like the pendulum idea...maybe I'll use something like that somewhere (even if not in this context...hmmm...where to put a pendulum...?)

Jim-Now there's an idear! And it would be the safest...no saws in their path at all! I never even considered that!

Now that's what I like! I figured there were more ways than my two ideas to work out an idea...really gets the creative juices flowin'! Thanks!

Kirk

robos99
12-22-2008, 02:19 PM
How about having some smaller saw blades that move along the walls the length of the hallway and retract as they get closed to the end where your customers will enter at. I'm thinking have some modest sized blades, maybe sticking out a couple feet from the wall, that start out on the opposite end of the hallway and retract as they get closer to your customers.

You could combine this with the pepper's ghost effect using some really huge blades, and maybe even use sound coming from different directions to make them think more saw blades are coming. And all this could give you some great opportunities for some actors. Maybe a scene with an actor jammed up in some big saw blades? Or perhaps have a big overhead saw blade spitting out blood and body parts?

Jim Warfield
12-22-2008, 09:14 PM
Anytime, repeat, Anytime that you have an object anywhere were someone can grab or touch it , someone WILL grab it, even a spinning saw blade , because , "It can't be REAL!"
Spinning moving parts can break, come loose, fall, hit people too.
"Watch this, I know how they do this, they just remove the chain from the chainsaw." then the drunk grabbed it and the real blood flew, party over.
Because the small haunt couldn't find the wrench the blade was not removed , as told to me by the insurance adjuster who handled the claim.
Then there was the JC haunt that would chase people over a series of earthen ramps on a dirt bike, in the near-dark..now what could possibly go wrong with that? Every customer is quick, athletic, co-ordinated, paying attention to everything surrounding them, right?
You think and re-think then carefully build it foolproof, then pray the fools don't find your place!