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oakhillshaunterTHEFEAR
02-04-2009, 08:49 PM
Everyone who knows about my little escapade witht he fake blue print design website is now asking me why I would setup a haunt that way. Well not everyone but some people say that a huanted maze would never be setup that way.

WHY FRICKEN NOT?

Its a unique way in which I've seen MAYBE one other time other then my own thoughts. A haunt in Ontario CA. The Haunted Vineyard. It was all the way I'm planning but some of it was setup the same way I'm gonna set it up.
I tried to upload a picture of my design for a haunt. Im not sure if its gonna work but if it does you'll basically be looking at the wall plans of two different hospitals I combined to make one. Then I used my so called architectual skills to redesign the walls systems, the patron pathway, and made sure it was all perfectly usable for a haunt. And guess what... IT FRICKEN IS!

PS. I did have the wall system copyrighted so I would be sourly dissappointed if I found out that someone stole my ideas. It won't be like SPFX and CFX it'll be you stole my idea now I'm suing you for a BILLION dollars. HAHAHAHAH. But no seriously take my ideas i kill you.

Eh it didnt work so I'll upload just the wall system the other file is just to big.

Nightgore
02-04-2009, 09:29 PM
Your "design" is too free flowing... your "typical" haunt is a continuous path of walls... guest are RESTRICTED to this path. Yours is too open, much too like a normal building! Your design allows guest to freely walk around as they like and this would KILL your throughput... therefore decreasing sales.

I've attached an actual haunt layout! -Tyler

Nightgore
02-04-2009, 09:46 PM
Here's a very quick plan I just whipped up to show how "normal" haunts are layed. This is on the 60 degree (Pickel) wall system... the red area is the "backstage" actor area... and the markings are swing doors.

Again, this is a very ROUGH example. -Tyler

drfrightner
02-04-2009, 10:16 PM
That design does not look right to me...

You sure that is a haunted house. Larry

hauntedhousenut
02-04-2009, 10:48 PM
Here's a very quick plan I just whipped up to show how "normal" haunts are layed. This is on the 60 degree (Pickel) wall system... the red area is the "backstage" actor area... and the markings are swing doors.

Again, this is a very ROUGH example. -Tyler

I always find that entertaining when people refer to the 60 degree walls as the pickle system. The math was here long before haunted houses, he didn't invent the angles, he merely implemented it.

drfrightner
02-04-2009, 11:17 PM
I personally was talking about the FIRST layout. As for the 60 degree NUT is right on the money... I can go to Office Max right now and buy 60 degree grid paper. This concept was NOT designed by Pickel in my book.

Funhouses, and all of that was using that stuff for years since the 1930's... when I go to Office Max don't see Pickels name on the paper like a trademark or something.

I think he might be the first person who actually tried to promote the use of it industry wide, but certainly not the first person to use it. If he was or anyone who makes that claim I'd like to see some proof of that. I think Pickel does a good job with his layouts using this grid, but me personally I wouldn't use 60 degrees. It KILLS set design, hurts prop placement and kills space, plus its not as strong as 90 degree.

Its the same thing as saying who actually did the first haunted house who knows, who cares... I'm just glad they did!!!!!!

Larry

Allen H
02-05-2009, 01:05 AM
Im pretty sure your idea is safe. Implement your idea and see how it goes. I think you will have traffic problems, and your actors will not know where to be because they dont know where the customers are going to be. If you have these issues fixed in your head and just didnt share them then great more power to you. If people did not try new things then we wouldnt evolve or learn anything.
I really hate the "dont steal my ideas or I will sue you" attitude. Im glad you "copy wrighted" the wall system but you may want to ask permission of whoever drew up the original plans you pasted to make the one you posted here. Is that your signature in the bottom right corner?
If your original post had a better attitude you would see better responses, at least from me.
Allen Hopps

mindtumor
02-05-2009, 08:17 AM
I always find that entertaining when people refer to the 60 degree walls as the pickle system. The math was here long before haunted houses, he didn't invent the angles, he merely implemented it.

Correct, hasn't this been the system mirror mazes have used for years and years?

Nightgore
02-05-2009, 08:30 AM
I'm not saying Leonard created this system... just implemented it and made it widely known in the haunt industry. Just as this isn't Hauntworld, it's Larry's site... 60 degree wall is the "Pickel" method... so on and so forth. Back on topic. -Tyler

oakhillshaunterTHEFEAR
02-05-2009, 09:12 AM
Guys guys. That is just a wall system. I had to design the wall system of a regular building first thats just how my brain works. Then I knocked downwalls and made a singular pathway for the patrons to walk. I know you have to restrict the places they go. When I finish it TODAY on the computer animation I will post it and it should fit. I only have it drawn on paper so i have to transfer the info to my comp. As for the 60 degree walls I know for a fact that Ben Armstrong I think his name is at Netherworld doesnt use 60 walls or atleast not all the way. I dont want just some regular haunted maze that looks exactly like everyone else.

On a different note I thought we all didn't like Pickel cause he was a jerk or something to Corn.

Allen H
02-07-2009, 02:51 AM
please dont say we all....ever and include me. If you have never met Leonard then dont have an opinion.Im actually shocked you said "I thought we all didnt like ..."I havent heard a statement like that since highschool. form your own opinion of people, dont follow the crowd. Each board will have people who are in or out. Leonard and Larry are rivals so on Larrys board you find Leonard getting a fair shake and vise versa.They are both good people who have done alot for this industry.
Allen H

drfrightner
02-07-2009, 04:29 AM
Allan,

I am NOT Leonard's rival and have never considered myself as such. What he does and what we do are two different things. Over the years people have tried to pit us as rivals or enemies or whatever but I don't see it like that.

I hope his magazine makes it and I hope that Leonard ultimately finds a something he sticks with and does well with. I have promoted Hauntcon and have offered even as recently as 2 months ago to print press releases for Hauntcon and or trade ads out in our magazine for Hauntcon all stuff he declined. If Leonard called me today and wanted us to make an announcement for Hauntcon we would!

I think Hauntcon is a great experience for haunters and have never said otherwise. In fact as we are starting HHA, we had someone on the board contact Leonard about supporting HHA and offering issues of his magazine for HHA. If you visit the HHA site you will find links to his magazine.

In the magazine coming out next week we printed info about Hauntcon even though he didn't ask us. I'm always open to supporting Hauntcon or anything anyone does that is POSITIVE for the industry.

Positive is the KEY ...

But what he does and what we do are two totally different things. In fact I don't even consider our magazines the same either. He does something different, different kinds of articles than what we do. I consider Hauntworld Magazine more of a passion and less of a business.

Anyway Leonard does that is positive for the industry more power to him...

I think one of my biggest issues with him or articles or seminars I've seen or heard is just the information that is being offered might not be the best advice in my opinion. There is nothing wrong with two views and that is better for everyone.

Larry

drfrightner
02-07-2009, 04:35 AM
Back on the topic... the first maze posted doesn't look like it will work at all at least not to me. I think you should rethink the whole thing otherwise I'm afraid you will face many problems especially if you get a lot of customers to attend your haunted house.

I'd have to dig around and see if I can find some maze we did for a client...I'd be happy to post one. We use 90 degree walls which I feel are must better from a design standpoint, stronger and offer better use of space. To me 60 degree walls are like a gimmick or a funhouse look not a haunted house.

Show me a castle with 60 degree walls, or a real house or a mansion or whatever... a mirror maze yes, a funhouse maybe not a haunted house.

Larry

Nightgore
02-07-2009, 11:27 AM
Larry, I think posting up an actual plan would be a great example of how haunts are layed out! Could ya' post one... -Tyler

drfrightner
02-07-2009, 11:41 AM
I'll be honest I couldn't find one... I did find this one that isn't real it was just a made up design for a presentation or something. Its not real, and sorta how we do mazes but not really. It was the only jpegs I could find on my computer. The other is of a dark ride.

I an however get you some samples of mazes we do.

I am a master at maze design, and I can design one very quickly. I start off with graph paper, figure everything out and then move to a cad layout. AGAIN THE ONE LAYOUT ISN'T EVEN REAL... ITS JUST SOME SAMPLE SOMEONE DID SHOWING WHAT THE SCENES WHERE GOING TO BE AND WHERE PROJECTORS AND STUFF WHERE GOING. I WILL TRY AND GET ONE I'VE DONE.

Larry

Jim Warfield
02-07-2009, 11:41 AM
I heard about a mall haunt which was just one big room , dimmly lit, people were told to walk in a circle, going clockwise while the monsters walked counter-clockwise passed them (wouldn't you know it? Monsters just have to walk "counter"?)
After awhile someone would tell you that you had walked "enough" and now you were free to leave!
Isn't this the goofiest thing you've ever heard of? But, who knows? Maybe it pretty much "worked"?
Probably depends alot on the people running it.
Of course their former customer telling me about was not impressed.

Nightgore
02-07-2009, 11:45 AM
That'd be awesome Larry... thanks for posting these! I still think you should do a whole video all about maze design and layout.... I'd buy that for sure!

Can't wait to see the other examples! -Tyler

drfrightner
02-07-2009, 11:45 AM
Let me make another point to you... when I design a maze part of my so called 'wall system' is the props that are going into a room. I do not use rails, and have promoted the non-use of rails on videos we've made for over 15 years.

Our props are part of he maze system, because you will walk around them in a room, they additionally help you curve and move around the rooms and expand the walking distance.

I really need a good same to show you.

Larry

oakhillshaunterTHEFEAR
02-07-2009, 12:20 PM
Thanks for that Larry. Infact I was assuming that the props helped curve the pathway thats shown in my drawings. I don't know what railings are or how they are implemented but like Tyler said if you could post a picture of a 90 degree system I'd appreciate that. OH and Hauntedhousesupplies.com said that Pickle was the innovator behind 60 degree wall systems. They had a whole architectual history piece on it describing his hard ships on the design and how he overcame them. Who ever cares to hear that.


Little editting on what I just wrote. I didn't scroll up to see you already posted an example. Thanks larry.

Vincent This Time!

MidnightEvil
02-07-2009, 01:48 PM
Sorry to tell you, but your floor plan isn't even close to the Haunted Vineyard layout.
I can say this because I was part of the build team and I still have a copy of
the floor plan. I also have some of the sets and props here at Coffin Creek.

hauntedhousenut
02-07-2009, 02:37 PM
Thanks for that Larry. Infact I was assuming that the props helped curve the pathway thats shown in my drawings. I don't know what railings are or how they are implemented but like Tyler said if you could post a picture of a 90 degree system I'd appreciate that. OH and Hauntedhousesupplies.com said that Pickle was the innovator behind 60 degree wall systems. They had a whole architectual history piece on it describing his hard ships on the design and how he overcame them. Who ever cares to hear that.


Little editting on what I just wrote. I didn't scroll up to see you already posted an example. Thanks larry.

Vincent This Time!

No disrespect to leonard or anyone else but the bottom line is, angles have been around for a little while longer than wall sytems, and I've never heard him he say he invented it, however with that said I give him his due for implementing it.

oakhillshaunterTHEFEAR
02-07-2009, 02:41 PM
Thats good for you midnight. I know one of the owners. He showed me the haunt. He walked me through it and no disrespect to you but I was talking about the orginality of the Haunted Vineyard. NOT the layout. That was one of the only haunts I've ever seen implement the use of inside and outside. He has actually asked me to come down and lend a hand in one of his new haunts. So no disrespect but you wrong. Vincent This Time!

icandrawem2
02-07-2009, 05:52 PM
VINCENT (did i get that right?), here is an example of another square-corner haunt design. Just remember that all designs are different and that some will work better in a certain venue than others. It all depends on how your haunt will operate and what your target throughput is.

Its hard to tell upon initial inspection but this is actually the 89.5 degree haunt layout...Im pretty sure this is patented in like 9 states...Its pretty hard to copy since 89.5 degree grid paper isnt readily available at your local Office Depot. :o

oakhillshaunterTHEFEAR
02-07-2009, 06:23 PM
That looks really good and I will definately be comparing my drawings to that drawing. Is that one yours? Just curious. Thanks Nate. Vincent This Time!

icandrawem2
02-07-2009, 06:53 PM
Yeah thats one of mine...I normally wouldnt cram all that information on one drawing, but that shows where most of the props and actors are, and the scenes are called out as well.

Jim Warfield
02-07-2009, 07:24 PM
Will all of these designs work for both red ants and black ants?
Need more throughput per/hour? Just add one sugar cube near the exit.
Of course getting them to actually buy a ticket is pretty tricky, they just pop up through the dirt wherever they need to be.
I think putting up a great many wall sections over a large square footage would be comperable to building a house of the same size, wouldn't it?
This might be a good thing to remember for those thinking of doing this for the first time.
Then..just watch the hours zip passed!

icandrawem2
02-07-2009, 08:27 PM
"What is this? A center for ANTS!? How do you expect the children to learn how to read when they cant even fit inside the building!?"

Smiley
02-08-2009, 06:33 AM
"What is this? A center for ANTS!? How do you expect the children to learn how to read when they cant even fit inside the building!?"

He's right. The buliding must be at least.....twice as big!