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RJ Productions
02-19-2009, 03:23 AM
Allan H posted on another thread and had some very valid points that I feel need to be addressed in their own thread. The subject is “young posters”. Not to be rude or belittling but we have had a “rash” of young posters recently. While I applaud their enthusiasm, I agree with Allan. Do we need to have all these posts on what is supposed to be a professional haunter’s message board?

While there may be some interesting questions, I find trouble in addressing these questions to individuals who right now do not even have the means to afford the ENTRY into a haunted attraction much less OWN a haunt! Again I am not trying to be a “joykill” or “hardass” but a realist. I was interested in haunting at their age. I had no one I could turn to. But if there was a pro haunter near me then, I would have NEVER have wasted his time asking questions about opening my own haunt, especially one that wouldn’t be realized until 20-30 years later. I also gave up on haunting as a kid only to return to in my adult years. How long until some of our young poster grow weary and move on to a new “passion”?

So unless you actually have worked in a haunt as Allan has suggested, it’s tough even calling yourself a “haunter” you are more of a “haunt enthusiast”, which isn’t a bad thing! But before asking all these questions and claiming you will be opening your own “haunted house”, get to a point where you can afford to move out of your “parent’s house”! Go start a home haunt. Most of us started there. Visit home haunt sites and message boards and ask questions there, as you actually BUILD your home haunt.

The Home Haunt scene is like the “farm system”. It’s a perfect proving ground. Go excel on the “AA” level, move up to the “AAA”, and then eventually you turn pro!! I did it that way, many others have as well. While you may think you are a talented teenager who really wants to open a haunt in 2 or 3 years you actually have no clue to the reality of the situation. It takes A LOT of money to open an attraction. It takes a lot of time, talent, business skills, contacts, and knowledge. Do you know electrical codes and how to correctly wire your attraction? Most fires are electrical! Do you know building codes? Can you build structural walls, floors, sets etc that won’t injure an actor or patron? Do you know how to form a corporation or at least a sole proprietorship and what it takes to obtain all the necessary permits and licenses? Do you know how to run a business, what is necessary to file your tax returns for a business? Many of the posters asking questions haven’t even WORKED for a business, much less know how to RUN a business. These are just a few of the questions you need to know before you even THINK of what it takes to scare people. Scaring is the EASY part, but without the other information and skills asking what final scare we suggest is totally pointless.

Again my point here is not to condemn anyone asking questions, just qualifying them. As Allan stated it’s great to ask questions, but it’s one thing to be building something and need an answer another thing to be asking questions just to ask questions. This IS supposed to be a Pro Haunter’s Forum. We had a similar thread years ago. If you have an interest in dentistry can you join the American Dentistry Association or go to their web site and ask questions? Absolutely not! You must be a certified dentist to even have access much less ask questions. What do other actual “Pro Haunter’s” think?

terrormasue
02-19-2009, 04:27 AM
I am in the process of opening a haunt here on my 17 acres. I have had home haunts for many years and finally decided this year I would go pro. I am well into my "adult years" where I can now afford it. Yes, it takes a great deal of money, thousands of dollars. I agree with you 100%. My advice would be to stay in school go out and get a great job that pays very well and then do all the research you can about the ins and outs of the haunt industry. Go to college and major in business with a minor in art and set design. If the passion remains into your adult years then GREAT! Open the best haunt ever. But until then study, watch, read and listen quietly.

tchaunt
02-19-2009, 05:04 AM
Well, as I can tell I'm one of the people this thread is talking about, here's what I've got to say:
-I realize that this forum is filled with the best in the industry, and that they are busy a lot. But I hardly see how you can compare this to a real life haunt. If you walk up to a pro haunter and start asking questions, then you may be interrupting their work. If your on here, you post a message, and anyone who's not busy that can get online can post a reply if they feel like it. I real life, a haunt owner couldn't just not talk, but people can do that on these boards. So, I don't really think it is reasonable to compare this forum to real life.

-I am asking all the questions that I will almost never have answered without this forum. Just two months ago, I was trying to find everything I could about haunted houses. I would dive into Google as deep as page 50 on a lot of searches. I finally found Haunt World, and I discovered its amazing community. I stood in the sidelines as a regular guest for a week or two, then I decided to join. Though I don't have a haunt, I have the drive to open a haunt.
--Consider this: I have held first chair (top rank) Saxophone from the first chair test we had in my band class. I am very serious about band. I would go out on the field to march last year when my knee cap was out of place just so I wouldn't have to miss practice. When I get dedicated to something, I get dedicated. It takes a lot of bad things to happen to make me not like something. Also, there are band trips I'm not going on just to start start saving money for starting a haunt.
-With me, I love haunts. I was pretty much just rolling through life with out much of anything. When I discovered my love of haunts, I couldn't keep myself away. I sit in my room working on ideas for my future haunt until 4 o' clock in the morning sometimes. I appreciate that you accept the fact that I am truly a 13 year old, but what you're not seeing is how I live my life: always carrying around a folder with notes jotted down here and there, with sketches for prop ideas I've had, with all of the pages of descriptions I've wrote out just to make sure I don't forget a thing bout my room idea, with all the blue prints for props and wall panels, and with all of my plans. I honestly do not leave that precious orange folder anywhere. I bought it for $.05 and it's priceless to me. I couldn't give it up.

I realize that with me being a 13 year old (nearly 14), getting money for starting a haunt will be a pain in the butt. But I'll work until I can't work any more just to get started. I guarantee you that I will at least start a yard haunt by '10, if not a basic haunted house. I know this is hard to believe that a kid who is barely a teenager thinks he has found what he wants to do for the rest of his life, but I have.

I understand to an extent why you think I shouldn't be asking these questions, but, quite frankly, I feel as though I have the rights to. I'm not forcing people to answer, nor am I charging them money to answer questions. People on these forums can be more than polite and answer most of my questions (Dr. Giggles and Jim Warfield are two I can think of right off the top of my head), or they can really dislike me and not want me on here.

Believe me when I say, I am only a haunt enthusiast. I'm pretty sure I've never claimed to be a haunter (if I have, then I didn't mean to). I've said I want to be a haunter, but that's it. I'm not going to call myself God when I'm only a God enthusiast.

Floor8Horror
02-19-2009, 05:40 AM
While Im young Ive been doing a haunt for 6 years. It isnt a professional haunted house it is charity. This is a great place for me to find out things to enhance my haunt.

Floor8Horror
02-19-2009, 05:42 AM
i didnt mean to post that so soon, I wasn't done:

And for about the last month the only people that have been posting things on this website are Jim, Dr. Giggles, and the young people, so I wouldn't call this a bad thing. These young people are going to be the professional haunters some day and they need to learn from some one.

Nightgore
02-19-2009, 06:57 AM
I'm going to have to agree! So, I am 21... still considered "young" for this industry! BUT! I've been involved in some type of PRO haunt for 10 years now; and it's just until now, after 10 years I'm able to start my own PRO haunt. It does take alot of money, I mean ALOT of money, you also have to go about it the right way:

-Have a good business plan with good business practices
-Have the money to be the best
-Have the TALENT to be the best!!!!!
-Have the MINDSET that your going to be the best!

Also, it's not always about "haunting"... you have to look at:

Marketing, workmans comp., business licenses, accounting, builing/lease, insurance.... it goes on and on!

I think one would have to work the ropes, learn, and work in PRO haunts to be called a haunter! But in a way, there is NOT ONE PROFESSIONAL in this industry because we have no type of certification. Look at plumbers, mechanics, chefs, doctors, etc. etc... I guess we're not that big of an industry yet.

But none-the-less... I am excited to see a young crowd posting on HW.com. I mean, every haunter started like this! Jon-Kyle does make a point though, if your posting on HW.com then your obviously not busy with your haunt... and if you take the time out to respond to a "young persons" thread, answer questions, etc.etc. ... AWESOME!!! Your really doing nothing but making our great industry better!

It's two-fold... youngsters that have to learn the ropes and old dogs that need to teach! -Tyler

Floor8Horror
02-19-2009, 07:00 AM
that is a very good point nightgore. Lets just continue to make this industry better. this is a great great website and I really enjoy it. Also you cant be a pro until you learn things so if we want this site to be ONLY pros the young people wont learn anything and this industry will decline.

mindtumor
02-19-2009, 08:05 AM
I believe the reason some people are taking exception to this is because of WHERE you are posting your threads and asking your questions. This forum is called PROFESSIONAL HAUNTED HOUSE CHAT ONLY. There are other forums on this site more suitable for your questions so post there. I know when I have a question about my haunt I don't want to have to sift through answers and threads that have nothing to do with being a pro haunt. Rich's point is very valid and no one should be insulted by it. Think of it this way if you paid for a seminar or class would you want quality information from a qualified person or would you want to sit there and hear information from people who don't know what they are talking about or worse information that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. My understanding about THIS particular forum is that it was for pro haunters that have questions for other pro haunters about operations and such. If you don't fall under this description then your posts probably belong in the Fright Forum. No insults were meant it is just the truth.

Jim Warfield
02-19-2009, 08:08 AM
When my Dad was a kid in the 1930's a teenager was not allowed to walk into a new car showroom because they knew no kid would have the 1/3 down, cash-money to ever buy a car.
By the time I was a teenager we were the driving influence for Detroit, making cars we wanted the 66 Mustangs, GTO's, Firebirds....now with the economy it will probably come full-circle with desolete showrooms looking ascance at any young person not showing up in a limo.
The problem with thinking knowledge is exclusive and the sole property of the old or experienced is that "youth" (full of enthusiasm) doesnot all go away or become severely distracted from their dream, we can warn them about the pitfalls and work involved, but then not everybody has the same talents or lack of understanding or lack of support that many of us had to face and overcome. Some do have many more advantages , some of them might be 40 years younger than some of us......I don't count anybody out who has a passion and a brain.
Some of these youngsters don't sound like they are interested in all of this just for a quick-buck .

RJ Productions
02-19-2009, 01:55 PM
Good points all. I hope your realize than I am not condemning any young posters just as it was said, this forum is for Professional Haunters. IF you are not, you can still log in and read answers, check threads and LEARN from the "old timers".

The major problem here is the internet. IF a 13 year old walks up to me and asks a question I can judge for myself how involved, talented, enthusiastic, etc and answer the question accordingly. On the internet most of us never even knew we were corresponding with teenagers. Most, like me assumed we were helping a fellow professional haunter in the process of opening an attraction. Again, because this is the Professional Haunters Forum.

I am sure I speak for others; we are not condemning their enthusiasm, just the means. Haunters stopped and took time to respond. You feel you wasted time when you find out you are talking to a 13 year old who may never open a haunt. Yes I know even "older" posters may never open a haunt, but the people who actually are in the position to open ask different questions.

Do we need criteria to post here, rules, regulations? Let's hope not. It should be very simple. If you are an enthusiast you post on the Fright Forum or better yet work on a yard haunt and visit the several home haunt sites, that are very good at what they do and have some great info. IF you are a Pro Haunter then you post on THIS forum.

Remember, almost everyone scans both Forums. If you have a question on the FF and someone wants to answer, so be it. But again on the Pro Forum we assume you are actually in the process of building and answer accordingly.

Many times on the past I attached myself to "master craftsman" apprenticing as you will. I watched, listened and learned. Slowly I asked questions, always pertinent to what was being worked on. I gained a lot of knowledge that I use to this day. Our young posters asking about room scares, haunt designs and the like will have NO relevance if or when they actually open an attraction. Things change! Haunts of 10 years ago are vastly different that haunts of today. Times change, rules change, audiences change. Sure there are some standard things, but many of these questions they ask will be pointless in ten years.

It's not that I might sharing info. I was taken under a wing when I was younger, so I in turn apprentice others. Several teenagers have worked on my haunts. Two are now carpenters, two are electricians, one in electronics, one in the movie industry. All started by working at the haunt as my "personal apprentices" . So we do share our knowledge, I just feel it is important and should just be tossed about carelesssly.

Look, LEARN, LISTEN, that's all we ask.

Allen H
02-19-2009, 01:58 PM
I did not mean to bash the young posters, I respect that they need to learn tips and tricks somewhere. It is my belief that experience is the best teacher, and as yet some of you have not done anything. Thinking about haunts is not the same as building haunts. I tend to ramble a bit I know so lm going to respond to TC's post directly so I can be as clear as possible.





- But I hardly see how you can compare this to a real life haunt. If you walk up to a pro haunter and start asking questions, then you may be interrupting their work.
I consider this board part of my work, I use it to both give advice and get advice for my business. So If there are 20 new threads in a day and 15 of them are useless or garbage, then I consider my work interrupted. True I do not have to look at all of the threads (and believe me I do not) but they still need to be filtered through. TC you are not as guilty as some, but the posts that bug me the most are when I see a teenager asking about haunt supplies that are for sale and asking about prices on things that we know they cant afford. Or trying to get info for "when they get their haunt" when its more than 5 years off. If you do not own a haunted house then you should work for one, then I do not mind if you post asking questions to improve your room or character. Dr. giggles is great about that, and I can see him being an asset to the haunt he works for because he works on his character so much. But even he is guilty of typing in stead of doing in some cases. If you are dead set on your own haunt one day thats great. I highly urge you to table that dream and work for someone else's place first. Make mistakes on their dime not yours.


-"I am asking all the questions that I will almost never have answered without this forum. "
I highly disagree, the people who are answering your questions here did not learn the answers here, we learned by doing. If you start doing then you may find a new or better way to do something and then you can share with us.


" I finally found Haunt World, and I discovered its amazing community."
Hauntworld is one of the biggest advances in haunted houses in the past 20 years easy. A network of your peers to tap into is an awesome thing to have. The key to that is peers. Some people have little to add and so they only take from the boards. Until they start doing and start making things (not designing) it will be hard for them to contribute.


"Though I don't have a haunt, I have the drive to open a haunt."
thats great drive is important now start putting in effort so that when you get your haunt it is successful.


-"With me, I love haunts. I was pretty much just rolling through life with out much of anything. When I discovered my love of haunts, I couldn't keep myself away."

I understand this, but your vision is to far ahead, you will stumble trying to reach your goal if you dont look at your feet. At ten I knew what I wanted to do for the rest of my life, I wanted to be a full time haunted house actor, at 18 I had accomplished that and had to expand my goals. No one is questioning your dedication, just the mothods you are using to get to where you want to be.


"I sit in my room working on ideas for my future haunt until 4 o' clock in the morning sometimes. I appreciate that you accept the fact that I am truly a 13 year old, but what you're not seeing is how I live my life: always carrying around a folder with notes jotted down here and there, with sketches for prop ideas I've had, with all of the pages of descriptions I've wrote out just to make sure I don't forget a thing bout my room idea, with all the blue prints for props and wall panels, and with all of my plans. I honestly do not leave that precious orange folder anywhere. I bought it for $.05 and it's priceless to me. I couldn't give it up."
I think that this is my exact point, have you built anything out of that big folder of plans? if not, then how do you know it will work? each time you make something you get an idea of what it will take to make something similar next time. It kills me to see a haunt budget that does not have screws or hinges listed, many planners forget to add those things the first few times and it kills them. Details that need to be included in plans and designs ingrain themselves into you as you build things, its only by trying to build something that you realize what needs to be included next time.


"I realize that with me being a 13 year old (nearly 14), getting money for starting a haunt will be a pain in the butt. But I'll work until I can't work any more just to get started. I guarantee you that I will at least start a yard haunt by '10, if not a basic haunted house".
If you want this to be your living, then I would skip the yard haunt, you need to start making money doing this and get the thought process of good show+ good weather= money. Skip the yard haunt stage and work for someone else for a few seasons, learn on their dime and be an asset to them at the same time. You will NEVER make what you deserve in this field no one does, If I or any pro for that matter totaled up their hours we would make about $2/hour for the season maybe less. Work to gather experience as well as money.

"I know this is hard to believe that a kid who is barely a teenager thinks he has found what he wants to do for the rest of his life, but I have."
This is the easiest part for me to understand I do not doubt the destination, just the path.

"I understand to an extent why you think I shouldn't be asking these questions, but, quite frankly, I feel as though I have the rights to. I'm not forcing people to answer, nor am I charging them money to answer questions."
You do have the right to ask anything you want, I just ask young posters to think first and try to look for an answer before asking. Or try to do what you want and then ask how to do it better, or ask about a specific problem you are having.


"People on these forums can be more than polite and answer most of my questions (Dr. Giggles and Jim Warfield are two I can think of right off the top of my head), or they can really dislike me and not want me on here."

For all young people out here, the more useless posts there are, the less we like you. I have personally given up on Oak hills as he blatantly lies and already believes he is an expert. He is as much a haunter as he is an architect. Most of my posts are trying to help someone, check and see all my posts and you will see that is true. This post is me trying to help to.
Please take what Im saying in the spirit its given, and not as an insult.
Allen Hopps

Floor8Horror
02-19-2009, 02:38 PM
"I know this is hard to believe that a kid who is barely a teenager thinks he has found what he wants to do for the rest of his life, but I have."
This is the easiest part for me to understand I do not doubt the destination, just the path.



I can tell that you don't like a lot of what the young people do but I am going to focus here. While I am still a young person I have been haunting for 6 years with my OWN haunt, please remember that. I think that is hard to believe that someone knows what the want to do and the path do being a pro haunted is vague but some encouragement from the pros would be helpful.

If a 10 year old golfer went up to Tiger Woods and said "Im going to be a pro golfer" I don't think Tiger would say "HAHA, DOUBT IT!".

And you say that we wont learn things here we will learn it on our own. So you are saying that you never learned anything from an experienced person or from here? Then what is the point of this site.

And Im going to shove your words right back in your face. "I believe that this thread has nothing to do with building or maintaining a pro haunt. Take it some where else on this site please!!"

rwrussom
02-19-2009, 03:17 PM
Mr H, you missed the point. Tiger Woods would not say ask a lot of questions and read some books about golf and watch it on TV. My guess is he would suggest figure out a way to get ahold of some clubs and spend time actually hitting golf balls.

There are some solid points here. I spent a very long time searching and learning from old threads before I posted questions that I felt were not answered and had relevance. There is a long history of a posters with a flurry of activity that leads no where. Most of these threads cover the same questions over and over. Remember Mr Haunt or Dr. Haunt?

Floor8Horror
02-19-2009, 03:22 PM
You are right he wouldn't but I was basing that Tiger story on what Allen H said. I am with you on the Tiger thing but I was responding to the previous post.

I really think that this thread is going to get way off topic and out of hand and Larry is going to have to warn us again about what this forum is for. Because this thread is seriously off topic.

Allen H
02-19-2009, 04:05 PM
Floor, you are missing the whole point as someone has kindly tried to point out to you. Tiger woods would be nice to the kid you mentioned, and he would say go practice, and when the kid was out of earshot he would say HA Ha DOUBT IT! because he knows what it takes to get there.

"And you say that we wont learn things here we will learn it on our own. So you are saying that you never learned anything from an experienced person or from here? Then what is the point of this site."
Floor on your original post on the other thread (in which I answered all of your questions in detail) I said where I learned what I know, and once again I will say as clearly as possible. I learned by doing, not really from the internet. When I see a thread or new advice online I can easily understand the improvement or modification because I have done something similar before. Even reading what we write you do not grasp it all because you have no experience. This is not a slap, its just an observation.
"And Im going to shove your words right back in your face."
I have been nothing but polite on each of these threads, there is no need for tantrums. careful or you will show your age.

"I believe that this thread has nothing to do with building or maintaining a pro haunt. Take it some where else on this site please!!"
This thread has to do with maintaining a haunt list it is dead on topic. This is not my list to maintain but it is my main communication with the haunt community, if the information is hard to filter through then I will go elsewhere as will others. I never bashed you or anyone else in any of my posts (oops aside from Oak Hills) scrap the attitude and change mine by changing the nature and relevancy of your posts. This is just advice, feel free to ignore me ,many do.
I think our reasoning is just to grease the tracks and keep the list flowing and a sharing of ideas.
Allen H

Dr. Giggles
02-19-2009, 04:47 PM
Guys all they are trying to say is sitting here asking questions achieve nothing. Go out and build props, and play with makeup and build a home haunt! Tiger wouldnts probably wouldn't say "HAHA, DOUBT IT!" He would probably advise the kid "Practice, Practice, Practice!" and cross his fingers and hope he does and doesnt just give up. Allen taught me this, that you just gotta do it and stop asking questions. If you are legitametly stuck on something and you have TRIED to fix it then maybe ask a question. So dont get so defensive.

scareshack
02-19-2009, 05:17 PM
I read this thread a few minutes after being posted and had some mixed thoughts on it.
Im just commenting on the first post.
RJ, no offense, as I respect you , but this thread is going off topic and I wanted to address one thing.

I understand the thread topic “young posters”.
There is to a certain degree to some comments on the younger ones asking a lot of questions on a pro haunt forum. As to age and such. That I can understand.

My issue is with the term “Haunter”.
Yes, im a Home Haunter as many here are Pro Haunters. To say and I quote “So unless you actually have worked in a haunt as Allan has suggested, it’s tough even calling yourself a “haunter” you are more of a “haunt enthusiast”.
This is false and wrong. Why? We all come from the same roots, a true love for haunting.
As RJ has said, most of us started out the same way. But…………..
To say were not Haunters, just Haunt Enthusiasts is not right.

As for saying “qualifing them”.
There are many Home Haunts that blow away many Pro Haunts. Not to may though, but….

There is a lot of “HAUNTERS”, not Haunt Enthusiasts, looking to turn pro from home.
(my issue with comment on haunter, sorry).

I do agree with useless posts asking….”how do I build my first pneutamic prop” yes theres other places for that, not on this board.
This is a great place for ones Wanting To Go into the Pro Haunter Level, to come and read and seek advice.

I wont comment on other stuff as to how to “qualify them” comment.

Theres a lot of good points in this thread, but is going way off Topic for sure!

Allen H
02-19-2009, 06:25 PM
I think this thread is going into several topics as opposed to going off topic.
“So unless you actually have worked in a haunt as Allan has suggested, it’s tough even calling yourself a “haunter” you are more of a “haunt enthusiast”.
It was my suggestion that the younger haunters work for a haunt, it was not my words that attempted to differentiate between haunter and haunt enthusiast.
Home haunts are great no one is dismissing home haunts, they help build a fan base for pro haunts. Many home haunters end up going Pro.
Weather you are paid to haunt at a pro haunt or paying to haunt at a home haunt if you sweat and actually build stuff, or even pay to have stuff built then run it, you are a haunter.
Allen H

RJ Productions
02-19-2009, 06:37 PM
Hey Scareshack,
We are still pretty much on topic. We are stating that this side of the forum should remain for Pro Haunters as Larry intended it. To that end we are trying tactfully to explain to the young posters why and everyone seems to be saying is “go DO something first, THEN you will have legitimate questions to ask.” Again our young posters do not seem to grasp this.

The internet may be a godsend, but then again it has its major faults. One being that it tends to promote people TALKING about doing things more than actually DOING them. Most of the Pro Haunters giving advice are doing so from actual experience. They have tried it and it works or doesn’t work. They keep saying, go TRY first, don’t just sit around and talk theory.

As far as your comment on being a “Haunter” I would have to disagree. And I can do so without offending anyone because I TOO was a home haunter. I have been on both sides of the fence. I had a home haunt that rivaled pro haunts which lead me to going pro. And I can tell you unequivocally there is NO comparison. I do not care how elaborate your home haunt is it will NEVER compare when you go pro. And the only way you will totally understand is when you make the leap yourself. When I did my yard I always referred to myself as a Home Haunter, not just a Haunter. Every profession is pretty much the same, you call Tiger a "golfer," but you or I would be referred to as "amateur golfers" (actually I really suck so I'd be more of a butcher golfer!). The distinction is always that when pros and amateurs are mingled, pros have the moniker, non-pros add the “amateur” designation. Until you actually derive an income or work for such an attraction you are still a Home Haunter or Haunt Enthusiast. Again I do not mean this as degrading, I always considered myself an Enthusiast until I officially “crossed the line” and turned pro. (sometimes I wish I had stayed on the other side of the line!!!!)

Keeping with our Tiger analogy, he was always referred to as an “amateur golfer” until turning pro. In our industry you are either a Home Haunter, (you operate in your yard during October), or a Haunt Enthusiast ( you volunteer for someone else or just like the holiday) until YOU turn pro. Then you can call yourself a Pro Haunter or just Haunter. On your side of the fence it may appear to be “unfair” but trust me, once you can see from both sides, only THEN will you truly understand. A Pro Haunter can understand both sides but an amateur will NEVER be able to understand the Pro side.

So it seems our thread about the young posters has a similar ring. They can not understand why they can't just talk theory and converse on the Pro Forum because it has to do with them turing pro eventually. Walk the Walk, THEN Talk the Talk.

Floor8Horror
02-19-2009, 07:31 PM
I am starting to agree that some people who have never done this before could get some experience before chatting it up here. BUT I do think that there is no where else for the inexperienced to get information. All the other sections of this site in my opinion are GARBAGE! This is the only useful section and it always has been.

Maybe the inexperienced should be reading old posts before coming and asking all these questions.

I also think that they should be called inexperienced haunters NOT young posters. I am still a kid and I have been running a home CHARITY haunt for six years. It is only in October but it costs and all the money goes to charity. So, I am a little offended by the term "young posters" that is me but I have experience.

Also still think this is an off topic thread, but lets get by that and just debate this issue until larry deletes it.

PS I am done talking about the tiger thing because it was an analogy that OBVIOUSLY only I understood and I don't want to try explaining it again.

Jim Warfield
02-19-2009, 10:13 PM
Once got to meet Kareem Abdul Jabbar in the NBA's locker room after a big game, the one grade school boy, said, "I want to play on your team someday."
Pretty funny huh?

Until a few years later this "kid" was regulary passing the ball to Kareem and winning championships for the Lakers!
That kid must have had quite an ego to have called himself "Magic"...as in "Johnson".

Greg Chrise
02-19-2009, 10:13 PM
Over the last 10 years a number of us have worn the letters and numbers off of many computer key boards. This forum has a search function and most of the questions have already been discussed about 5 times over. Some of us have actually put out DVD's written books, magazine articles (whether our name was on it or not) put on seminars and some of us have not. Yet, in the magazines and these forums, the videos and the many haunt web sites there is already an encyclopedia of information out there.
Over the last few years we have been bombarded with young people unsupervised by parents playing on the internet and dreaming of stardom claiming to be building a pro haunt. It isn't any different to me than someone that has only been to one haunted event ever and is building a pro haunt now. Like all those that spent the life fortunes of 3 people to have a mega event and lost everything.

There is absolutely no way to describe how many hours if not money go into an event. Over the years the word pro haunt has when really getting into someone's mind become the same thing as a home haunt with things in the yard as well as just a really big Halloween party because those asking the questions have no idea what a haunted house is any more than the customers do. All of a sudden $500 worth of OSB that has been outside for 3 months unsealed is worth $75,000.

There is no way to describe how many normal priorities go out the window like paying proper attention to school or jobs or other businesses. Personal relationships and responsibilities shift to keep the big asset of "the haunted house". One consultant even had an intresting seminar once I attended with a 3 page self evalutation, basically saying do you really know what you are getting into and to become properly experienced in each facette of what these events demand. Of course then he would follow it up with if you do know what you are getting into do you have $150,000 to give me right now?

Everyone has to start somewhere and yes, some drift on. Many of them were actually sock puppets pretending to be a 13 year old with a million dollars. I don't know who to take seriously anymore. Another problem is the Fright Forum was the first and the Proffessional Forum just kind of blended into more of the same.

If there is to be any dissapointment after all these years, it is that no one has suggested anything new, wether it is a 13 year old or a 70 year old just starting out. Even not knowing what a haunt is. It seem the Internet is for asking questions instead of brain storming ideas that might have had some thought put into it to come up with something totally new and different. Even coming up with a different atmosphere that might be the haunt of the future.

I spent years working for free or doing senic design for the cost of materials before I could even figure out how to lay out a maze. In other past lifes I did the same thing, hung out for months at shops and labs at my own expense to find out all the big secrets. It's a how you do things in the real world rather than be abnoxious and ever present. There was no Internet. And so our reference of what it was like to be 13 years old isn't right anymore either. They think lots of haunters are into S&M. Now I like spagetti and meatballs but I don't know about these other things they think are going on.

This particular kid is the first one I haven't found the need to beat down somehow but, someone also revealed to me that some posts were made at times that would be during school hours. Are there computers at school or are we dealing with another sock puppet? It has taken 40 years for culture shock to really happen.

geckofx
02-20-2009, 12:55 AM
This horse has been beaten to death several times over by now, and yet nothing will be accomplished in the end. If your truly concerned about keeping this forum professional then you all need to agree on what "professional" actually means, then have someone actually enforce it. While Larry tries to do this he has a whole empire to oversee and can't be everywhere.

So what's professional, shall we say someone with at least 10 years of experience, over the age of 35, and clears over 1,000,000 per year at their haunt? Well that doesn't make any sense does it? It is a state of being in this industry, but doesn't necessarily revolve around the nature of your attraction. While someone in their house may not know how to deal with a Fire Marshal, they may have an incredible faux technique down. And what if one of them is an actual professional? An electrician, an engineer, a Fire Marshal, a carpenter, a special effects master? Just because you are not the owner of a haunt does not disclude you from the idea of being a professional, especially in an industry that is this diverse.

It's like the real world here guys, and sometimes people need a bump in the right direction.

mindtumor
02-20-2009, 09:29 AM
The problem here is not everyone is applying logic to the topic. The BOTTOM LINE is this FORUM in particular is for PRO haunters to talk with other PRO haunters. If you want advice on starting a haunt post it in the fright forum or you want to talk about your character post it in the actor forum. There are like 20 other forums on this message board. If you don't own a haunt and charge admission and have to deal with permits and inspections post your questions in one of the other 20 forums.

If this were a ONLY TEACHERS ASKING ONLY OTHER TEACHERS QUESTIONS forums would students(NOT TEACHERS) be allowed to ask questions or would they post their questions in the general questions forum(aka the Fright Forum).

Greg Chrise
02-20-2009, 09:40 AM
Being a proffessional means that from beginning to end, you know from proven experience how to make money or raise money for charity. You know how much it will cost or how much will be required to donate to reach a goal of some kind. Whether that dollar figure is a guarenteed $1000 to $300,000

Another deliniation is you don't feel the need to walk around and describe you are a pro, people know it from your reputation. You need not even advertise that you are a pro.

At some point you also as a pro realize you can give your soul away as advice and no one is listening. Not because they aren't trying to but, they are not capable of understanding what you mean.

You might be a pro electrician or fire fighter or even master degreed nuclear physisist with 20 years in devloped professional skills and it does not equate to running an event. So many of the required skills are so simple and how would you know unless you have achieved them. Everyone speaks of an internship or an apprentice level effort but, no one is really willing to live that life.

It is part of our culture because things cost money. No longer can someone get their family to pay Leonardo Divinci to make sure there kid knows a trade. They would't send him to the carnival guy when there is the community college a few miles away. So, they don't end up finding out at all unless they are personally passionate about the subject.

Plus there are so many subjects in haunting that any one of them is an individual skill to be mentored in. No one person can be great at all things and pull off the haunt from one end to the other. Building great props is a great prop maker. Building great masks and costumes is just that. Being the guy who moves walls around is just that. Yet each one wants the title of pro.

A pro haunted house is the full event, who gets the money in their hands and how it is distributed. This forum is a great way to put out an idea and see if there is any feed back or think outloud but, do you really think those final kernels of thought that really pull it all together are on here?

Or do the pros keep those a secret because it took so much invested to come to realization? And when just plain ot asked a pro isn't totally going to say here's how you do it kid. Why would they when all there is would be a little knowledge that they will not die with out having told all their secrets. And if you were on your death bed and had some giant revelation would you put it on an Internet forum and feel like now the world knows and will be much better for it for future generations?

What ever hierarchy you want to put pro haunter up against, it isn't the electrician, it is the home or commercial business owner. An electrician knows enough not to make a deal with the renter that lives in the basement or to a home owner that has ripped off the last 3 contractors by their own admission is never happy with their work and refused to pay. And electrician knows not to expect that insurance company to pay real quick and how to stay away from the do it yourselfer that has never written out and really has no intention of writting out a big check for a commercial job. They are just after thousands upon thousands of hours of free information or free work.

Does an electrician apprentice someone only long enough to get THEIR garage done? No there are thousands of garages and other opportunities to wire things and get paid. That one would be total charity that one might be able to afford or not.

So here thanks to Larry we have this free forum. That's as good as it gets.

Haunted Farm
02-20-2009, 11:10 AM
I too agree! If this young man has this much interest in the Haunted Attraction industry by all means ask away. For granted, it might not be the right forum for his questions but by no means discourage this young man from asking! Ask away... I am sure that the members will stand behind me in saying that your questions will always be answered one way or another and we are all for sharing the knowledge of our unique industry! Kudos to the young man for having such a driving interest which is hard to find in young people his age :p

tchaunt
02-20-2009, 04:42 PM
I'm sorry, and I know this is going to sound rude, but why do you all keep drawing back on the "He can't be truly 13, he's done this or that or the other!" If you all don't want to believe I'm 13, go ahead. I'm fine with it. I really don't care right now. One thing I want to know is, when the heck did I make these all-so-suspicious posts that should actually make me some 40-year-old?

I'm sure someone will get upset by this post, but I'm getting really annoyed with everything going on in my life right now. I've got a friend who's mad at me because I didn't throw him a party for his birthday and no one except for his "true friend" remembered (even though I mentioned it all day long and he just ignored me). Now, the people who I thought I could consider friends are calling me a liar. Go ahead everyone. Slap me in the face. I'm just a sock puppet.

I guess I'll sound immature or whatever, but I've been watching this thread since it first came out trying to keep from posting anything I'd regret, but I still wanted to figure out what things I'm doing wrong (since this thread is mainly aimed at two people, me being one of them). I'm sorry, but it is amazing how often playground politics are showing up here. I get the fact that most of you all hate me posting on the Pro Haunt forums. The thing is though, I figured I should post on the Pro forums since running a "pro" haunt is so much different from a home/yard haunt. Since the forum is called "Professional Haunted House Chat ONLY" and not "Professional Haunted House Owner Chat ONLY", I figured it would be the appropriate place to post. Like usual, I was wrong. I'm sorry, and I'll-for now on-not even post on the pro forums since I don't have my own haunted house. I offended you all, and I'm sorry. Since I don't have a haunt nor work for a haunt, I'm just a haunt enthusiast and I get that. In no way have I ever claimed to be a pro haunter. I learn from pro haunters, but that's it.

And for those of you who don't like me, don't worry about telling me to "be careful, you may show my age". If I'm coming on too strong/upset, it's because everyone I know pretty much has just been slapping me in the face recently--and some even literally!

Like I've said-goodness knows how many times-in this post, I'm sorry. If I've came on as a 40-year-old, you don't like where I'm posting, or what ever else you all will end up posting about, I'm sorry.

One last thing I'd like to point out, why is it that a 13 year old can be more polite than some of you? I admit, I've made a lot of mistakes on this forum--like sexual comments, posting on the wrong forums, etc.--, but I am at least polite in most of what I say. Don't get me wrong, I've had numerous people send me private messages about not letting this thread bring me down, but many of the people I see on these forums are far from acting like civilized people. If you were really concerned, then why not send a private message to just me and Vincent? It's obvious that we're the main topics of discussion. But honestly, what was the point of posting on this forum when it's mainly only for 2 people? I hardly see how it was appropriate to post anything as a thread about this topic, unless a large group of people were actually posting in the wrong section, etc.. Again, I'm sorry and I know this post will upset someone, if not most of everyone, but I'm just being honest.

On the plus side, half of you all would make excellent pharmacists. I've had to take two anti-depressants (natural herbs) to try to calm down. I'm hurting all over just like I did in 2004 and 2005. (Only some of my closest friends know the significance of those two years for me). Let me just tell you, it means severe depression. 10^∞ equals ∞. And right now, all of the events in my life equal depression. I hope y'all have a great time. I just don't think these forums are the right place for me right now since I don't have experience and I'm only welcomed by a small fraction of the users on here. I may come back later when I actually have a haunt so I can be worthy of your incredible levels of wisdom, but until then, have a nice life and I hope yours doesn't suck as much as mine has the past few weeks. :)
It really is discouraging seeing some of the people who I actually looked up to almost as much as my grandmother who died in 2004, go so low. It really helps the depression. Thanks. Maybe I'll get some sinister ideas while I'm gone and have a great haunt and eventually be the new Larry. Until then, I hope ya' have fun. Maybe you can scare more people who were very serious about the business away from this wonderful site. Heck, I guess scaring is your job. But y'all have took it too far. I'll be in this industry until I die. I'll have a haunt within a few years. Whether I return here or not is totally unknown to even me right now. I will probably only be using these forums as means of communication to some of the people who I do have left on these forums who are actually friends.

Off topic:
If it's so important that only things talking about pro haunts by pro haunters are posted in this forum, then why'd you post this thread on it? I understand a minor point in the discussion is this forum, but why not post it in the fright forum since it isn't related to professional haunted houses directly? I'm sorry. I'll get flamed for saying this, but I'm just asking.

EDIT: Gee. How perfect. My last post was my 300th post.

Greg Chrise
02-20-2009, 06:49 PM
In another thread, HauntedHouse Nut said his talent was to piss people off. Well, when you do piss people off or upset them, they seem to just open up and tell you things provide credability or prove some kind of wrong doing. Yes, this is a haunted house forum. A bunch of sick puppies somehow coexist as well as they can coexist anywhere.

Of course you think it is all about you. It isn't. We have over the last 10 years had some of our own prank us just to test our charity or how gullible we are. We never seem to have enough information about anyone. Part of the fun of haunted houses is acting and back stories and some have indeed been very believable and entertaining. Until such time someone actually sees you in the flesh you might as well be a midget android made by Nissan to fool us.

What I'm catching in all the pro responces is entirely different than what you might think. In order to even have any of these insights you must be heavily dissapointed hundreds of times in order to really evaluate how much you care or how much you have invested.

Some of this is human nature but, widely it is a lack of human experience. It is always about you rather than perhaps the experiences of 300 people and somehow in the last several months you brain has been able to process the things that has take the rest of us 45 years. When I was maybe 10, an 8 year old was proud of the fact that he owned a chemistry set and told me he could make me a Batmobile. Maybe I should now 45 years later just pop in on his life no matter hat it is and ask were my damn car is. You know what we do to liars don't you?

As for another analogy someone suggested, we are not teachers. We are not on any salary from the community or government to play nice or send anyone to the principals office. This is indeed the free market of scary people who in many cases are a bit intense or at least have explored everyone's fears and limitations and figured out how to make a buck off of manipulating those reactions.

The only reason I am being temporarily level headed about things right now is because I have been to the chiropractor the last two weeks. Mine isn't but, some of the haunted houses do have lower age limits to enter, so somehow this forum is a loop hole to get past people having conversations about whether dead baby rooms are a good idea for children?

Friends? A bunch of people that would rather wear a T-shirt that says "Doesn't Play well with others" or "I'm the one your mother warned you about" are capable of being friends? Are looking for friends?

Nope, everyone here might actually hate each other but, it is a business oriented discussion. Even those we totally have no idea why they have a certain opinion about some issues at least make us think. Further there is a big difference between laying 20 questions and providing totally free thought provoking content.

If we were being paid perhaps $10 a post? Jim Warfield would have banked well over $100,000 by now. It isn't really all age related. I have had a 12 year old point out the obvious when it needed to be that way and had 50 year olds think using cardboard is cool and be completely less than 10 years old mentally.

Somehow haunted house people have a high level of sweetness no matter how much the world has dumped on them. Some regions of the country open up a conversation with "what the F arre you lookin at" and if you worm out by that you aren't worth a conversation. Other regons will wait about 6 months of tremendous hospitality and then F you, we know everything you know now and you can take a hike.

How can you even understand this if you are trying to juggle your time between Power Rangers and Haunted Houses. What kind of haunted house are we talking about? Like Scooby Doo? Like Garfield's Internet Haunted House Game? Or at age 13 a haunted house is about Latex clothing and pain? All of those are wrong. It isn't what any of it is about.

Until you have been to about 30 haunted houses, bought the CD seen the DVD watched the videos, had someone read the book to you, been to the dinners the conventions and seminars and met your possible information offering champions, then build your own events from home then went pro and had enough stuff to also put some things in the front yard as well. Did the party circuit and done the charities and then seen how others had failed as well as your own failures and understood why. Untill you have also gaged other peoples success and realized what dysfunctional crap they do not engage in.

Then now you have all of these internet friends saying just give it to me. It is my God given right as an american citizen to know everything in your soul and own everything you have. Just bring it here, donate it to me, give it all up. If you don't why is everyone so un giving? What is wrong with them? Why are they so nasty.

It isn't greed. Everyone here is not sitting on stack of used props. If we are we sell them in one way or another or they get disgarded as junk abused by entertaining another 10,000 people. Should we spend $40 in postage to mail you some rotting latex? Then you will be somebody and the only reason you aren't someone is because no one just gave you what you needed?

Freinds are earned. Creative people have been slapped around their whole lives and somehow migrated to haunted houses. It is all borderline psychotic. Should someone that just up and joined a forum and decided a haunt would be cool is an instant friend? Well, to some on here you are their next customer/victim. That's what business is.

We aren't talking Disney queue line here. We are talking building haunts that are more than places where you stand in line and the customers entertain themselves while they wait. None of us can help that every new person's frame of reference seem to be they went to one sucky haunted house and it can't be that hard to get a bunch of people with dollars in their hands to give the money up. We are talking all the time it takes to equally energize another 50 to hundreds of people to make sure the customers are being entertained rather than entertaining themselves.

Do you think that can all be accomplished is say 2 hours a week? Then you will be rich? Or is it a weird lifestyle with lots of sacrifices.

If someone is telling you that band practice is a must then you aren't your own person for now. And perhaps rightly so. Being in the band is something only young people get the opportunity to enjoy and if you don't do it now you never will.

Greg Chrise
02-20-2009, 07:19 PM
And yes, beating on dead horses again and again is what we do for fun. People are wazzed out by the smelly farts of death.

UnDeRTaKer313
02-20-2009, 07:54 PM
Hmmmm.
Jeez this topic looks oddly familiar. hahah
Please read this! i quit posting on the forum but came back on just to post this.

Anyway, i have said my part on this topic many months ago and i am not going to restate them as no one took them to heart it seems.
I quit posting on the forums because of the fact i was not taken seriously, being given a hard time by adults on here, and not being treated as an equal member of the forums i was treated like a child.

I would like to say to all of you young kids on the forums, DONT EVER GIVE UP ON YOUR DREAMS!! keep it up kids. I poured my heart and soul into my home haunt at my parents house since first grade. Love nothing more than haunting.
I went through some tough time on the forum and eventually lost all my motivation to go forward with haunting because of it. I then took a good hard look at the situation as a whole and realized that it was all a big joke. I had more passion and desire to haunt than anything else, and i let some adult haunters on this forum convince me that i was wasting there time in asking question and posting on the forum, when in reality they are the ones that are just old guys sitting here on the forums with nothing to do and trying to act like top dog. Notice you never hear anything about there haunts or here them discussing serious issues.

To conclude my story i would like to let you know that through all of the crap this forum has put me through and all of the fake accusations, and being put down for being a kid with a little home haunt.
I AM 16 YEARS OLD AND THIS HALLOWEEN, I AM OPEING UP A COMMERCIAL "PROFESSIONAL" HAUNTED HOUSE.
YES to all you other professional haunt owners, i am 16 years old and will be going through everything you went through to open up your professional haunt. Also my education is still first, 1st in my class, and working towards attending M.I.T.

FOLLOW YOUR DREAMS! and dont let anybody distract you from reaching your goals.

I want to let all of you know that if you need any help in your journey as a haunter i want you to feel free to contact me at nick@hellsgatehaunt.com. Also if you just want to talk about this issue contact me and ill help you out.

With respect.
Nick
Hell's Gate Haunted Attraction

shawnc
02-20-2009, 10:29 PM
But Nick, the really important thing about you is you actually went out and did it.

tchaunt
02-21-2009, 08:58 AM
I realize I said I wasn't going to post again, but anyway:
Guys. I have said this time and time again. I am not a haunter. I'm not even a home haunter yet. I am just a haunt enthusiast who only knows about haunts. I only know things about the business. I know that it's not the same until you go out and actually run a haunt. What I'm doing here is trying to learn everything I can so that I don't have to go through the troubles you all did. I've always been told "Don't just learn from your mistakes, learn from everyone's mistakes." I'm not sure where many of you got the idea that I ever claimed to be a haunter (let alone a pro haunter), but yet again, I'll say I am not a pro haunter.

Greg, what I'm saying about this site is that there's an appropriate way to do things. When one person says something, there's no need for everyone else to say it again. That is essentially what some of you are doing here.

Quite the contrary Greg, this is about me. This entire thread is about me and Vincent. Vincent pretty much quit, so that left me. I realize that y'all like having fun with younger people. But I can see that you all take it a little to far as shown from the leagues of teens who have joined, and been pushed away. I'm sorry that we're not good enough for some of you, but some of us are very serious about this industry.

Dude, I'm sorry if it upsets you that I learn things quickly, but I sure as heck have not learned a fraction of the things you all have learned in 45 years.

Believe me, I know you're not teachers. It's obvious by your grammar and spelling. Quite frankly, I don't care. You all can teach, even if you're not teachers. Look at Dr. Giggles. He has provided me with so much information about scare acting for free. Do I know how to scare act now? No. Do I know how to learn how to scare act? Yes, all thanks to members who have posted info about it. Being a teacher and teaching are two different concepts.

I don't literally mean personal friends. I consider people who are friendly as friends. It just saves time when you're typing messages as long as these. Honestly though, I once considered all of you friendly and helpful. You can check out some of my posts on my blog to see what I thought about you. Now, I just see a bunch of 35-40 year old's stuck in their high school class, with the occasional member or two who is actually kind and helpful and doesn't think that you are a liar. For instance, Jim made the topic about me possibly being a 40 year old. He was joking--having fun. I'm sure he didn't mean it in a bad way. To a certain degree, I took it as a compliment. BUT, some people took it seriously and posted a bunch of crap about me. I will say that hauntedhosuenut was right in what they were saying. They had true evidence and they had a reason to correct me. Do I wish they had just send me a private message? Yeah. But Nut was still kind in the way they corrected me, and I appreciate it. There were others, though, who were posting things that don't even make sense. When I ask for the evidence behind the reasoning to be presented, they can't give me anything. I'm sure I could explain the mysterious posts during school hours. If you all would just give me the dates, I could tell you exactly what was going on. But like usual, the chef loves the cake, but hates the cleaning.

I realize there is a difference in questions and brain-storming. Do you know what that topic was? It was my very first topic. I was new, and I interpreted the forum title wrong. Obviously, it should've been posted in Fright Forum because I'm not a pro. But guess what, there were members on here who were more than willing to help me learn. In fact, in a few weeks, my very first thread was the longest thread in the Pro Haunt Forum. I, in fact, was going to post about an idea I had, and see what others thought about it and what they thought I could do to improve the idea, but then I saw this thread in the list of New posts. And it made me realize, why should I post my ideas when they're not good enough for most of you? Hm?

Gee Greg. Your joke about the Power Rangers was so funny, I forgot to laugh. I really don't give a crap how young I am. You do not realize that I am dedicated to haunting. You don't realize that by coming on here, and learning so much from you all, I'm going to help the industry in the long run. You don't realize that some people are actually disciplined enough to run a haunt at my age. You don't realize that I, and many other young posters on this site, are the future of this industry. You'll get old, you're skin will wrinkle, up comes the liver spots, to a nursing home you go, while my generation comes in and fills your spot. Pounding the crap out of young kids who love this industry is not the right thing to do.

If anyone had actually asked for more info, they would be told my address along with the fact that I would pay shipping and pay them at least some for the things. Did I expect many people interested? No. Did I think people would really help? No. Did I want someone to send me their entire haunt? I would have appreciated the offer, but NO. I do not depend on you all to supply me in any way besides information. The thread wasn't even my idea. Vincent just popped it up on here, and I didn't know what to think. I figured why not post? Obviously, certain people were upset by it. Honestly, I know that no one has anything extra right now that they can't find a use for. I really don't care that they are "being nasty". I understand. What you're too shallow to understand is that I didn't even make that thread.

Again, my definition of a friend is someone who is friendly. I've got personal friends, which is what you thought I was referring to, but I don't have any personal friends on here. As far as I know, I've never seen a single one of you in real life. But there are still the few of you who are nice and friendly.

My God please help me. Have you not read anything I've posted. "I know that, with me being 13, it will be hard to start a haunt". I know it will be a b**** trying to get all of the money I need for a haunt and for all the supplies and the supplies for the supplies. I know I'm not going to be took seriously by most people (which you've made even more obvious), but I don't care. I am going to have a haunt and I don't care what it takes, how long it takes, or how much blood I have to spill, I'm going to have my haunt.

When I say I'm going to school, it means Monday through Friday from 7-4. I don't care if I have to work 'til 10 o' clock at night, I'll be at my haunt to build it and work on it...even if I have to do it myself. I could, even on my busiest schedule, put in 47 hours a week. And I'll do it. I don't really care if I'll be sore from hammering and screwing nails all week or what ever else you want to come up with, but I can easily invest my time into a haunt. And guess what?!? I know I'll be lucky if I even get a dollar to spend on anything I want from a haunt. I know that most haunts, even the best, usually don't even break even until their second or third year. I know that most people who own haunts also have other jobs to help them earn a living. Do I care that I'll not have that much money just so I can have a haunt? No. Not really. I've never had much money to my name. My family has never seen wealth. Yeah, we have a nice house and have a great time with each other, but I've only went out of state three times. I've went to Tennessee twice to see my aunt, and I've went to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina once. I don't care about living a lavish life style with silk toilet paper to wipe my greedy butt with. I want to live a life where I'll be happy. And for me, that's sweating and bleeding in a haunt. I'm sorry that you don't understand my dedication, but I've got it. It's there.

And band really isn't anything I enjoy anymore. Our assistant band director got fired last year because the school supposedly couldn't afford to pay her...even though they employed two ladies at the middle school and they employed three ladies at the high school. Over 40 people were told they were going to get fired if the school didn't start getting more money, and she was the only one to be fired. Now, my band director is so busy with the business side of band, he hardly has time to teach us anything. I feel like the only time I've learned something was in marching band. And since I have a photographic memory, I've memorized a lot of rhythms, making it all seem repetitive. I haven't enjoyed band for quite some time now. :/ I try to enjoy it, but I can't. I've gotten so bored, I can already play three instruments very well. And I only started the second two this year.

By the way, I'm sorry if there are any typos here. I've been typing for nearly an hour and I don't really want to go back and check it all.

Dark Attraction
02-21-2009, 09:35 AM
I opened my first professional haunt when I was 18. Prior to that, I had worked on several small haunted houses while in school. Had websites like this been available, I might have gone into that first year with more knowledge and it wouldn't have been such a failure.

Steve Kristof was 13 or 14 when he and his Dad purchased an attraction from us... fast forward 7 years, he now has the #3 ranked attraction in the very tough Illinois market.

I think if somebody is in here to learn, let them.

graystone
02-21-2009, 09:56 AM
I don't really have a comment on this. It's like how can a young person get answers if they dont ask? But I can see where some questions come off as not revelent to this forum.

Now I have a question for Tyler first and formost I like and respect Tyler. But I do need to ask how does a person at 21 aquire the funds to open a full blown professional haunted house? Did you inherit a large some of money or maybe take money your parents had set aside for you for collage or have some sort of trust fund? Or do you have a job that pays way more than those of most people your age? In todays day and time I cant see opening a professional haunt without spending at least $100.000.00 and if your having to buy a building ect WOW I know just to install the sprinkler system in my haunt was $125,000 and thats just the attraction part. Then was the buliding price of $745,000.00 then invested about $250,000 for the haunt which included building materials, decore and props.

As one business owner that started at the bottom and worked his way to the top I wish to give you some advice. If your using someones money other than yourself THINK LONG AND HARD. Yes it will get you there quicker but the end result I will assure you will not turn out the same. Tyler I do like you and will enjoy meeting you. I guess it just makes me think how does one get so much at still a young age. Shane and its I wish you the best. Shane this time!

Darkmaster
02-21-2009, 10:00 AM
I commend you on your
effort. Good luck with what you do.



I realize I said I wasn't going to post again, but anyway:
Guys. I have said this time and time again. I am not a haunter. I'm not even a home haunter yet. I am just a haunt enthusiast who only knows about haunts. I only know things about the business. I know that it's not the same until you go out and actually run a haunt. What I'm doing here is trying to learn everything I can so that I don't have to go through the troubles you all did. I've always been told "Don't just learn from your mistakes, learn from everyone's mistakes." I'm not sure where many of you got the idea that I ever claimed to be a haunter (let alone a pro haunter), but yet again, I'll say I am not a pro haunter.

Greg, what I'm saying about this site is that there's an appropriate way to do things. When one person says something, there's no need for everyone else to say it again. That is essentially what some of you are doing here.

Quite the contrary Greg, this is about me. This entire thread is about me and Vincent. Vincent pretty much quit, so that left me. I realize that y'all like having fun with younger people. But I can see that you all take it a little to far as shown from the leagues of teens who have joined, and been pushed away. I'm sorry that we're not good enough for some of you, but some of us are very serious about this industry.

Dude, I'm sorry if it upsets you that I learn things quickly, but I sure as heck have not learned a fraction of the things you all have learned in 45 years.

Believe me, I know you're not teachers. It's obvious by your grammar and spelling. Quite frankly, I don't care. You all can teach, even if you're not teachers. Look at Dr. Giggles. He has provided me with so much information about scare acting for free. Do I know how to scare act now? No. Do I know how to learn how to scare act? Yes, all thanks to members who have posted info about it. Being a teacher and teaching are two different concepts.

I don't literally mean personal friends. I consider people who are friendly as friends. It just saves time when you're typing messages as long as these. Honestly though, I once considered all of you friendly and helpful. You can check out some of my posts on my blog to see what I thought about you. Now, I just see a bunch of 35-40 year old's stuck in their high school class, with the occasional member or two who is actually kind and helpful and doesn't think that you are a liar. For instance, Jim made the topic about me possibly being a 40 year old. He was joking--having fun. I'm sure he didn't mean it in a bad way. To a certain degree, I took it as a compliment. BUT, some people took it seriously and posted a bunch of crap about me. I will say that hauntedhosuenut was right in what they were saying. They had true evidence and they had a reason to correct me. Do I wish they had just send me a private message? Yeah. But Nut was still kind in the way they corrected me, and I appreciate it. There were others, though, who were posting things that don't even make sense. When I ask for the evidence behind the reasoning to be presented, they can't give me anything. I'm sure I could explain the mysterious posts during school hours. If you all would just give me the dates, I could tell you exactly what was going on. But like usual, the chef loves the cake, but hates the cleaning.

I realize there is a difference in questions and brain-storming. Do you know what that topic was? It was my very first topic. I was new, and I interpreted the forum title wrong. Obviously, it should've been posted in Fright Forum because I'm not a pro. But guess what, there were members on here who were more than willing to help me learn. In fact, in a few weeks, my very first thread was the longest thread in the Pro Haunt Forum. I, in fact, was going to post about an idea I had, and see what others thought about it and what they thought I could do to improve the idea, but then I saw this thread in the list of New posts. And it made me realize, why should I post my ideas when they're not good enough for most of you? Hm?

Gee Greg. Your joke about the Power Rangers was so funny, I forgot to laugh. I really don't give a crap how young I am. You do not realize that I am dedicated to haunting. You don't realize that by coming on here, and learning so much from you all, I'm going to help the industry in the long run. You don't realize that some people are actually disciplined enough to run a haunt at my age. You don't realize that I, and many other young posters on this site, are the future of this industry. You'll get old, you're skin will wrinkle, up comes the liver spots, to a nursing home you go, while my generation comes in and fills your spot. Pounding the crap out of young kids who love this industry is not the right thing to do.

If anyone had actually asked for more info, they would be told my address along with the fact that I would pay shipping and pay them at least some for the things. Did I expect many people interested? No. Did I think people would really help? No. Did I want someone to send me their entire haunt? I would have appreciated the offer, but NO. I do not depend on you all to supply me in any way besides information. The thread wasn't even my idea. Vincent just popped it up on here, and I didn't know what to think. I figured why not post? Obviously, certain people were upset by it. Honestly, I know that no one has anything extra right now that they can't find a use for. I really don't care that they are "being nasty". I understand. What you're too shallow to understand is that I didn't even make that thread.

Again, my definition of a friend is someone who is friendly. I've got personal friends, which is what you thought I was referring to, but I don't have any personal friends on here. As far as I know, I've never seen a single one of you in real life. But there are still the few of you who are nice and friendly.

My God please help me. Have you not read anything I've posted. "I know that, with me being 13, it will be hard to start a haunt". I know it will be a b**** trying to get all of the money I need for a haunt and for all the supplies and the supplies for the supplies. I know I'm not going to be took seriously by most people (which you've made even more obvious), but I don't care. I am going to have a haunt and I don't care what it takes, how long it takes, or how much blood I have to spill, I'm going to have my haunt.

When I say I'm going to school, it means Monday through Friday from 7-4. I don't care if I have to work 'til 10 o' clock at night, I'll be at my haunt to build it and work on it...even if I have to do it myself. I could, even on my busiest schedule, put in 47 hours a week. And I'll do it. I don't really care if I'll be sore from hammering and screwing nails all week or what ever else you want to come up with, but I can easily invest my time into a haunt. And guess what?!? I know I'll be lucky if I even get a dollar to spend on anything I want from a haunt. I know that most haunts, even the best, usually don't even break even until their second or third year. I know that most people who own haunts also have other jobs to help them earn a living. Do I care that I'll not have that much money just so I can have a haunt? No. Not really. I've never had much money to my name. My family has never seen wealth. Yeah, we have a nice house and have a great time with each other, but I've only went out of state three times. I've went to Tennessee twice to see my aunt, and I've went to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina once. I don't care about living a lavish life style with silk toilet paper to wipe my greedy butt with. I want to live a life where I'll be happy. And for me, that's sweating and bleeding in a haunt. I'm sorry that you don't understand my dedication, but I've got it. It's there.

And band really isn't anything I enjoy anymore. Our assistant band director got fired last year because the school supposedly couldn't afford to pay her...even though they employed two ladies at the middle school and they employed three ladies at the high school. Over 40 people were told they were going to get fired if the school didn't start getting more money, and she was the only one to be fired. Now, my band director is so busy with the business side of band, he hardly has time to teach us anything. I feel like the only time I've learned something was in marching band. And since I have a photographic memory, I've memorized a lot of rhythms, making it all seem repetitive. I haven't enjoyed band for quite some time now. :/ I try to enjoy it, but I can't. I've gotten so bored, I can already play three instruments very well. And I only started the second two this year.

By the way, I'm sorry if there are any typos here. I've been typing for nearly an hour and I don't really want to go back and check it all.

rwrussom
02-21-2009, 10:48 AM
Jon-Kyle,

For the most part you posts have been reasonable an to the point. The search function can be useful, but asking questions anew may also result in new looks and responses. I think the problem was the rash of BS posts that seemed to be for entertainment or controversy's sake only. The suggestion was that this is not the forum for that.

On separate note. Business and life is rough. You need a thicker skin that only comes with experience. Not everyone who shows you courtesy or feign respect is your friend. You wont survive long with that approach.

tchaunt
02-21-2009, 11:10 AM
Don't worry. I know they're not necessarily friends. I had been working on the first major post on here from the time I got home from school (3:30) and I kept getting interrupted. I didn't get to post it until about 7. I was wanting to get finished, so I started typing quickly. I am using the term "friends" very loosely here.

Brandon_K
02-21-2009, 11:24 AM
Young posters or not, I would simply appreciate at least a half assed attempt on grammar.

Periods, commas, quotes, spaces and even new paragraphs all have their place in life.

hauntedhousenut
02-21-2009, 02:46 PM
I have no problem with you, the only issue we did have was resolved, no biggie.

With that being said, don't take this place or any other internet forum SERIOUS, this is not real life, take it for what it's worth and do not invest your emotions!

hauntedhousenut
02-21-2009, 02:47 PM
Greg you have me confused with Mike Honcho, he said his talent was to piss people off. I said my talent was the love for pain!

Nightgore
02-21-2009, 03:47 PM
Shane,

Our funding is a collection of personal funds from myself and my business partner Ed... who is the prominent financial backer of the entire company. We're looking to lease a building with an option to buy... it's a write-off and we don't have to worry about the taxes of the building.

We're doing ALOT of stuff on our own... we've been lucky enough to create a team of very skilled people... from mask/prosthetics/prop maker, costuming, acting, construction/design, animation design and fabrication, etc. etc... We'll be building alot of our own animations (full movement audio-animatronics). In the future I don't want to outsource any product we need... I want us to DO IT ALL in house! We're not buying one single masks (except for one silicone mask)... we're making custom silicone appliances and foam prosthetics!

If you want to chat more about the ins-and-outs... drop me an email at scarylexington@gmail.com

-Tyler

hauntedhousenut
02-21-2009, 04:20 PM
Shane,

Our funding (close to a million dollars) is a collection of personal funds from myself and my business partner Ed... who is the prominent financial backer of the entire company. We're looking to lease a building with an option to buy... it's a write-off and we don't have to worry about the taxes of the building.

We're doing ALOT of stuff on our own... we've been lucky enough to create a team of very skilled people... from mask/prosthetics/prop maker, costuming, acting, construction/design, animation design and fabrication, etc. etc... We'll be building alot of our own animations (full movement audio-animatronics) like Disney. In the future I don't want to outsource any product we need... I want us to DO IT ALL in house! We're not buying one single masks (except for one silicone mask)... we're making custom silicone appliances and foam prosthetics!

If you want to chat more about the ins-and-outs... drop me an email at scarylexington@gmail.com

-Tyler

So basically what Shane is saying is true, your partner is handling the financial end and your investing a little on your own.

Why in the world would your partner invest that amount of capital in a volitle market like Haunted houses, they all aren't profiting at a level of a Netherworld, darkness...etc it seems that if you had that type of cash flow you would invest in something more stable.

Nightgore
02-21-2009, 05:06 PM
Yeah, your right! As for the industry... we're not afraid of this economy and we understand that to make money you have to SPEND money! Now, granted that it's NOT that amount going towards haunts... we've got ALOT of other stuff that goes towards!

Also, our business plan is pretty solid and our marketing, so far, is pure awesomeness! But that's because I have a marketing director who knows what the f**k he's doing! hahahaha... Actually if you'd like I can outline an awesome deal we made for radio!

Also, the KY market... doesn't have any events like this. We're not a haunt, we're an event! It's something I think this state NEEDS and would do VERY well! -Tyler

graystone
02-21-2009, 05:43 PM
Thanks for the reply. A million dollars thats bigger than the budgets of Ben and Larry combined. Wow I am impressed. But with all your marketing director, a financial backer ect have you ever thought you might be money ahead by starting off small and building up? Also let me say that leasing might be and might not always be the way to go. Why would you lease when you can buy and gain the capitol of owning your own property? Sounds like you might want to talk to a real estate agent, or a loan officer about that. I am shocked your partner would not see the plus of owning. Buying is an investment, and taxes are just part of life.

I wish you the best but you are really going to have to have a huge turn out and I mean huge just to break even. And I dont know of any haunts that open and turn a profit for atleast 3 years maybe more. Haunting is very seasonal. Lastly LOL as far as radio right now a pet dog can cut a deal with radio stations they are giving the farm away.

Again Tyler I wish you the best but. Well I will just say I wish you the best. Always remember and this is coming from many life learned lessons. It might look good on paper but its far from reality. I wish you the best you seem to be book smart but your still at a very young age to be life smart.

I built a company the old fashion way I started off small, worked longgggggggggg and hard, depended on no one other than myself , never bit off more than I could chew and never ever depepned on anyone other than myself. Now share it with no one but myself. I also enjoy the perks of letting others do alot of what I did in the beginning however I still to this day know every move that every employee that works for me does. I might add they do it my way not their way as I built this company with the help of no one other than the support of my family. Good Luck its going to be a long road.

One last thing Tyler my friend you said that you "Think" this is something your state needs. Thinking is one thing. My friend you better say YOU KNOW! LOL Shane and its Trust Me On That. Shane this time.

Nightgore
02-21-2009, 05:54 PM
Thanks for the comments and the support Shane... I hope your able to come up and visit, you know your more than welcome anytime! As I said, our budget isn't just for the haunts... there's several things that breaks up into... even another company! But that's all stuff that doesn't belong on a public forum.

Again, thanks for the support... your truely a dear friend Shane! -Tyler

Greg Chrise
02-21-2009, 06:50 PM
The last 10 minutes of Power Rangers today was Awesome!

Jim Warfield
02-23-2009, 12:58 AM
I know things change, admission prices increase..I think I remember reading a post Larry made maybe five? years ago discussing monetary things concerning a haunt and he said something like dollars and cents/wise if you spent , I think the number was $150,000 to buy your haunt building, that you would never make enough profit to pay it off.
For many years I show my customers a little illusion/toy with the floating quarter, I lettered on the side of the plastic lid:"The Monetary Illusion Of The Haunted House Business,"
you see the quarter but you can't touch it, your finger passes right through it's image.
Yes, maybe everyone has locals or neighbors who will tell you that," You must be a "Millionaire!" because of all the people lined up on a Saturday night in October!
Not so. Not even close.

lonewolfmage
02-26-2009, 11:27 PM
Greetings~

Mostly a lurker here and absorbing info .. and have really not posted anything .. but... in reading this thread I felt i kinda had to chime in ...

The reason being many fold .. YES I have seen TC 's threads's as well as others, he has asked legitmate questions regarding haunts,,

I, my self .. have been doing/working haunts since I was 16 years old ( I'm now 37). I've been in his shoes.. have TRIED to ask the questions on this board and various other boards that are regarded as the "one and only Haunt board" and have gotten shot down on more than one occasion. Which is why I lurk.

Granted, yes I DO NOT have all the knowledge you "veterans" have with getting sponsors,, materials. ect. but that is why I sit hear bewtween my monitor and computer tower. That is to LEARN.

TC might have had some "odd posts" .. hell he made a mistake , posted on the worng board section .. OPPS .. have you not done the sane thing ???? whoopp dee doo .. give him a slap on the wrist .. and have done with it.

He wants to learn .. is that not the point of this board ??? for all of us to learn from each other ??

Mistakes that maybe even the "veterans" make might be able to fixed by the younger generation of haunters..


The young generations of haunters ARE the Haunting future.. lets not knock them for thier dreams .. even IF they are 5 .. 10 .. 20 years down the line... its tghe dream that counts ... mine is to HOPEFULLY have mine going in the next 2 years or dso ..

OH and BTW my Co owner will be younger than me .. and has the same passion as TC does. My co ownwr will be about 10 years my Juior , dos Latex makup appliances, makeup in genral , builds props, as well as helps with all haunt and non haunt activites in town.


Whether thier dream happens to "Haunt Enthusiast" based .. or "Haunt Proffesioal" based ... what diffrence does it it make .. we all have dremas.. some of ours have come true .. some we still have to work at it ...

As "professional"" as you all say you are that are "throwing stones" , look in the "magic mirror" and look back as to where you were at one point Where TC is ?? Did you not ask questions ? ? Did you not make mistakes ???? if you answer no to either of those .. well them it's you issue ....

We all learn from mistatkes .. even from the younger generation.. as they can learn from us .. let'sn ot "trash" thier dreams , just because they made a mistake..


We have all ben there .. and we all will be again .. the question is .. will we learn from them?

Just my many cents worth :)
~LoneWolf

Greg Chrise
02-27-2009, 10:14 AM
At what point did this become a totally free expected on going seminar? When I joined 10 years ago it was who do you use, what do you use, what works best, being shared by people that were currently doing something, not dreaming about it. I was able to shut down some serious veterans from fighting because instead of spending great deals of time on these forums trying to pick fights, they should really be talking to their customers and actually building on their haunt. Instead of trying to drag everyone into some very time consuming dysfunctional answer man or woman position on the Internet that pays nothing.

The continous questions have driven away all the people that truely know anything first hand. Dream all you want but, this is not a government funded Haunt Welfare Program. It is not leave no scary child behind.

If someone in a different example put a picture of something up or properly described what they were mixing together and said something was a problem looking for ideas of how to make it better? Or they actually are right now putting some concoction on something and it isn't doing what was expected? Yes, you might get some worthy responces.

Yeah I'm dreaming of $150,000 worth of stuff too. So what? Does that make me a better person or an idiot? Better sense focussed, I can even tell even myself I might be approaching things like an idiot. You build and build and maybe a decade latter you have something worth $150,000. But, if you point out you have to focus on the building part rather than the dreaming part you are somehow violating some one's self esteme?

Quite frankly we run into 40 year olds too that just aren't going to really pull this off because they have so many other responcibilities that they hold higher and think having a haunted house is going to be the answer to all their financial problems and they won't have to do too much! It is all magic if someone would just tell them how to do it using a magic wand. If perhaps someone that has worked hard for decades were to just give them everything on their list for free?

If you can personally contact someone in the flesh that you agree with, they can explain what would take 200 hours to type on a key board in about an hour and a half. You have to get out of the chair and hit the streets. If you are waiting for this forum to fulfill all of your dreams, you might need counciling no matter what your age is.

This forum instead has become a yearly gathering of people that just two months ago thought a haunted house would be great being guided by 16 year olds. Somehow they have been in this industry for years and years but just joined this forum? How great is that? Isn't it kind of a waste of time when someone is about 40, 50 or 60 years of age and is about to make a serious investment in either time or money and all they get is a dream sequence? The dreamers think they are visionaries and what they foretell must be heeded as it is "the dream". It doesn't matter if older people might be making possibly their last business decisions ever. The ones that will crash them for ever. The decisions that were supposed to be the ones that would complete their life financially but instead was one more poorly advised dream.

How long will it take to see these dreams turn to reality? Another 10 years of so much consumed bandwidth and noise? How long will it take all the people who can freely type things as their dinner is being prepeared for them to find out they have done maybe a hundred things that could have been done better. Yet, they had to do them all along with limited resource and then trash it all and do it right?

Allen H
02-27-2009, 10:23 AM
I personally have no issue with TC, he took the posts to mean him and yes he did annoy some. Oak hills the self admitted liar and time waister was my big beef. TC is fine, he just knows nothing about haunting, as long as he mixes asking with doing the board will have no issues with him Im sure. He may even become an asset to the board if he specialises in a field where we might have future questions, I know that is community thinking, but this is a haunt community. We arent saying leave or shut up, but were saying pull your weight. I started in haunts at 10 myself, I dont begrudge him that at all, Im glad they are getting started early.
Why not start a mentoring program so young posters can be assigned a "sponsor/ mentor" that they can ask questions to, good questions could be posted on their behalf, it might not work, but its a possibility. I would be willing to mentor someone, Lord knows I do at my shows all the time.
Allen H

Greg Chrise
02-27-2009, 02:12 PM
It seems the ones I chose to be my mentors if that is the proper phrase had been in business totally haunt specific at the time 16 and 25 years. I traveled to where they were to speak face to face and help them out. I didn't post 2,000 questions on their respective forums or web sites. Yet they became very personal friends that we share of topic discussions daily in private emails and visits at most conventions.

If you pull your weight these same people ask you for advice or insight and alas that is when friends status is achieved. Of couse then there were those that had been in business for 10 years that said the old school sucked for so many reasons. BUt, then the new school changed their tune on many things after actually having more than a decade of experience.

Plus the newest phenomina I observe is people writting a book or putting out a DVD in their first and second year of business. This of course makes them a God in the consumer public and you can't shake people's having been informed by an author or media producer. If it came over the Internet it must be true. Maybe I'm missing some over all point as this information was not available in my 2nd year of trying to develop something and these books may have spoken directly to me somehow at the time for $30. However, wouldn't you rather have business advice from someone that developed the whole effort? Saw failure and continued more knowledgable? Or someone that is completely hopeful, totally clouds the end results of such a business and in many cases just has not demonstrated long term operational success or reasoning?

Another phenomina I have grown a little tired of is people just popping in a month ago and has no idea what a back story is, how to write a paragragh explaining your event and how to scare people by being some scary persona. And, you can find out how for $39 so they can possibly quit their job as the house keeper at the Roach Motel.

Sorry to say there are quite the numbers of population that have gotten past 3rd grade and can write a paragraph, write a book, develop a scary back story and characters. Do your research and find truely qualified mentors. You might catch them giving a seminar at an industry convention or you might catch them writting articles for magazines or even showing up at home haunt gatherings to lend a hand.

Chose your mentors wisely. And, those that have been around for 10 or 20 years do not give a crap about what someone that has been thinking about for only 2 years. They simply are not a success YET. No matter how helpful it appears, someone now into their 2nd month quoting the 2 year guy to a 20 year guy and what the 2 year guy has to say is gospel is just silly. It just shows a lack of seriousness or far reaching understanding no matter what age.

None of this is totally about TC Haunt, I'm running into 30 and 50 year olds who's frame of reference is how things are done at their work that are no more brilliant than a 13 year old. I have also seen through with 30 year olds that after having accomplished the whole deal just can't believe it has all been done to a certain level and they have it down.

If you start right out with a new subject telling veterans there might be something wrong with them, you probably will be very alone. Gee the veterans might point out where you are wrong.

hauntedhousenut
02-27-2009, 02:38 PM
I couldn't agree more, that was the post of the day.