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Rich Hanf
04-16-2009, 08:26 AM
To me this all gets very interesting. Let me begin by saying thanks to Rob for getting on here and validating what I had been posting. He could easily have let me swing in the wind. As for Rob, He really is under no obligation to “out” his vendors as I’m certain he wants to keep them as vendors going forward. What we have here is me reporting on something that happened and giving my opinion about it…something I have always done. Some, refused to believe me. Now the convention owner gets on to back me up and again, some won’t believe him. I’m certain that if the actual vendors got on here there would be some of you that would say “well they don’t like Leonard so they are not telling the truth”…and so it goes. It’s you guys that will never let this be settled.

The problem is not me, Rob, or the vendors…the problem is you guys who can’t look at things objectively. This is how it plays out. Many of you guys here have “taken sides” through the years. Now you have an emotional investment in the outcome of any Leonard discussion as your egos won’t allow you to say you might have backed the wrong horse. A great example of that is Kenny from Dream Reapers (who I have nothing against btw). The boys over there have been Leonard lovers from the beginning. So much so that they embraced his triangular grid system in their haunt one year while in the buildout stage. Well, one of them (I’ll mention his name only after I speak to him) told me personally that it didn’t work…didn’t make sense…something to that effect. Instead of coming on here and saying that…instead of taking a step back and thinking wow…maybe this guy isn’t everything he is claiming to be…they chose to keep it quiet and at some time and expense to them, redesigned and rebuilt the show. Still, however…Kenny is on here taking me to task. He would never actually look at Leonards actions, or record that perhaps warranted my initial post as that would again require him to take stock of his position which of course emotionally ties him to that outcome. AND THAT’S OK…not everyone has what it takes to go there. Life is a journey and a personal one at that and if someone (anyone) isn’t ready to grow emotionally…that’s ok…it’s very hard work and it keeps shrinks in business… and certainly Kenny has been through more than he deserved over the past few years. It just may not be his time…it’s really ok…but’s let’s call it for what it is.

Greystone…Rob is under no obligation to “out” his vendors…and as I pointed out, even doing that wouldn’t put this to rest. You just need to do your homework, look at the past, and remember that YOU ARE WHAT YOUR RECORD SAYS YOU ARE. If after doing that you honestly believe that LP didn’t do what Rob said…ok…conversation over.
Do you have the ability to take a step back and reconsider? I don’t know that as I don’t know you but I will suggest that you need more than an “opinion”.

Allen H…Like it or not…like me or not…I’m allowed my style and more importantly…I’m allowed my passion. The day I stop being passionate about haunting is the day I should go home. None of you guys ever for one minute stop and “think” “hey…why does Rich seem to dislike this guy so much”. Has it ever occurred to any of you that perhaps I have been around a lifetime longer than many of you and perhaps I know our history…his history…better than the average haunter? Did it ever occur to you that maybe I know things you don’t…things that I consider bad, hurtful, and just plain damaging to the industry I love as deeply as I do?
Do you guys really think that I just woke up one morning and said I don’t like this guy…I’m gonna screw him forever and for no reason? What’s wrong with you people? Think this through for once. Maybe it’s time you guys talked to some other haunters and see what they think. There are plenty of haunters to choose from. How about Diane Evon the original owner of Naughtical Nightmare…find out what her experience was (I’m not telling…you have to actually do some work here). How about the guys from Screamworks of a few years ago (I don’t think they will talk to you as they went so broke I don’t think can afford a fone card). Not big enough? OK…How about Lynton Harris of Madison Scare Garden, John Denley of Terror on the Wharf, or the Godfather of us all Phil Morris. Forget about me…talk to some others and see what they say and then see if you still feel the same way about your golden boy.

Robert and Greg…You DO have a point…about just being business. I have to wonder. Would I feel the same if Jenny from Transworld went to Hauntcon and tried to pick off Leonards vendors? In all honesty I doubt it and so I am left asking myself why not? How do I explain my own hypocracy?
I suppose it’s because I have always viewed Transworld as something that is good for this business where as I see LP as a negative force in it. Still, it’s something I need to come to terms with.

Lastly…I suppose this is all for nothing. There is always Hauntcon but I believe this year will be the make it or break it show for HC. The way I hear it, HC has become an overly expensive Haunt Tour with a small inconsequential show floor. I hear tell of some folks that are looking to get into THE HAUNT TOUR BUSINESS. Instead of overpaying at HC, you just might be able to go to the HC city dejur, tour all the shows HC would bring you to…have any number of social activities…all for far less than HC would charge. I suspect that will be the death knell….but then again Leonard has shown himself to be a fighter who has resilience. Time will tell.

And so my little ghoulies it’s time to close the door on this. I’m going to The Chiller Theatre horror and sci-fi con here in Jersey which means that I’m gonna actually have some fun without you guys…but don’t think I don’t love ya.

All the best Rich

mindtumor
04-16-2009, 08:34 AM
Ok I have to ask, are you the guy at Transworld who was taking pictures of the CFX stuff and my shoulder may have blocked one of your shots?

brad
04-16-2009, 09:11 AM
Rich, thanks for coming clean. I still stand by what I posted on the other thread.


Jared, Rich was the guys doing the auction during the Darkness tour, if that helps. He was the guy on the scaffolding with the megaphone.

mindtumor
04-16-2009, 09:23 AM
I didn't pay attention to auction, I had a pretty bad headache and was in a pretty bad mood that night. Thanks for trying though, LOL!

Allen H
04-16-2009, 10:06 AM
Allen H…Like it or not…like me or not…
Rich, I do not know you well enough to know If I like you or not, Yes you have been around forever I remember seeing you in Fright times magazine (oddly enough I picked up my first copy at Chiller years back, yep I got them when they were new). If you go to MHC lets meet at the bar or something. I dont have a grudge, just a critique of your tactics.


I’m allowed my style and more importantly…I’m allowed my passion. The day I stop being passionate about haunting is the day I should go home.
Agreed


None of you guys ever for one minute stop and “think” “hey…why does Rich seem to dislike this guy so much”. Has it ever occurred to any of you that perhaps I have been around a lifetime longer than many of you and perhaps I know our history…his history…better than the average haunter? Did it ever occur to you that maybe I know things you don’t…things that I consider bad, hurtful, and just plain damaging to the industry I love as deeply as I do?
I know how long you have been around and Im sure you know things I don't, no argument there. When you are stating opinions there will obviously be contrary opinions, the stronger your language the stronger your opposition will be.

Forget about me…talk to some others and see what they say and then see if you still feel the same way about your golden boy.
I think all of us have pissed people off in the past and in a close knit industry like this it gets around. Occasionally haunts fail it happens all the time Old heads in the haunt industry are rare. when businesses fail its easy to blame someone, but there are a ton of factors involved. I don't need to know all the stories. Leonard is not my golden boy, but I am one of the people who you have never heard of who wrote an article or two for Haunted attraction magazine.
Your mis-labeled post was worded so strongly that I think I would have jumped to anyones defense that was being attacked so. Thats my only beef, tactics. Thats also why now your still writing emails defending it.

Allen Hopps (also my real name, wanted it for my screen name but the site wont allow it)
P.S. have fun at Chiller I never missed the show till I started my show at a ren faire down here. Never made it to the october one though, always been busy.

Ken Spriggs
04-16-2009, 10:24 AM
A great example of that is Kenny from Dream Reapers (who I have nothing against btw). The boys over there have been Leonard lovers from the beginning.

----Really? We have no ill feelings toward anyone in this business..........No not even the person you are thinking about....Jim Upchurch

So much so that they embraced his triangular grid system in their haunt one year while in the buildout stage. Well, one of them (I’ll mention his name only after I speak to him) told me personally that it didn’t work…didn’t make sense…something to that effect.

-----It didn't work because of the way we do things.....it is a great system for speed and through put which it is designed for....in my eyes at least

Instead of coming on here and saying that…instead of taking a step back and thinking wow…maybe this guy isn’t everything he is claiming to be…they chose to keep it quiet and at some time and expense to them, redesigned and rebuilt the show.


------Why do I want to rip someone down for an ideal that isn't for us?
Might work great for 75% of the people but not us
Gee so I should go on a message board because I like pepsi over coke?
The world is made of different people with different thoughts....why is that bad?
This would make me a down right ahole....for real.....I am not that!!!

Still, however…Kenny is on here taking me to task.

----not taking you to task just wondering why everytime you come on here.....an all out attack on SOMEONE in the industry.......I don't care who it is....leonard or anyone else

He would never actually look at Leonards actions, or record that perhaps warranted my initial post as that would again require him to take stock of his position which of course emotionally ties him to that outcome.

------I am emotionally tied to 2 things in this world.......if anyone fucks with either one of them
They will die! After that I am numb that is whats great about going through a rough time Richy......

AND THAT’S OK…not everyone has what it takes to go there.

------Again why do I want to look like an ass for ripping on stuff I don't really give 2 shits about?


Life is a journey and a personal one at that and if someone (anyone) isn’t ready to grow emotionally…that’s ok…it’s very hard work and it keeps shrinks in business… and certainly Kenny has been through more than he deserved over the past few years. It just may not be his time…it’s really ok…but’s let’s call it for what it is.


-----not my time for what Richy? To stand up and put my money where my mouth is?
What exactly are you trying to say here BUDDY? Read what you wrote....
Life is a journey and a personal one at that and if someone (anyone) isn’t ready to grow emotionally…that’s ok…it’s very hard work and it keeps shrinks in business
------and taxes were due yesterday......WHAT DOES THIS MEAN???





Rich? Hey BUDDY?
I would like to ask you a question?

Why would I....or anyone I work with.....want to make anyone look like crap?
TRIANGLE GRID? Oh it works....but not for us crazy idiots?
WE DON'T DESIGN LIKE NORMAL HUMANS
We have redone half of DR this year and we NEVER put anything on paper....it's in our heads.
There are many reasons it doesn't work for us.

Is it Leonard who makes it not work for us? NO RICHY

So let me ask again.....WHY DO I WANT TO SLAM SOMEONE IN PUBLIC FOR THEIR THOUGHTS?

Please ask Leonard if we love him? Ask Larry if we love him?

Larry will be the first to say....Ken why do you always mess with me? Why not......
Leonard will tell you.....Rick and JT are great guys.......I haven't really had words with Ken in a few years.

Now before you go spewing your BS......I have never screwed ANYONE in this business
I always speak my mind!!!

SO I WILL GO BACK TO MY ORIGINAL STATEMENTS

Go back to building your haunted house....oh those that have them at least....and quit stirring up the shit!

I chose no sides in your battles........or anyone elses!!!!

As far as me going through ALOT over the last few years........YOU ARE RIGHT
But do you or anyone else know what I have taken away from all of it?

Sometimes it is better to just not insight a riot!!!

I have no battle with you RICH.......leave me and my guys out of your battles.

You also mentioned this to Allen H
None of you guys ever for one minute stop and “think” “hey…why does Rich seem to dislike this guy so much”. Has it ever occurred to any of you that perhaps I have been around a lifetime longer than many of you and perhaps I know our history…his history…better than the average haunter? Did it ever occur to you that maybe I know things you don’t…things that I consider bad, hurtful, and just plain damaging to the industry I love as deeply as I do?

Rich.....I knew you when you were married, had short hair the first time, and you had a yard haunt.
I too have been around ALONG TIME BUD.
Sometimes it is better to let people hang themselves....or prove themselves......that is just my theory

drfrightner
04-16-2009, 12:46 PM
I myself do not want to fight with Leonard Pickel, or anyone else, but that doesn't mean I won't. I have always felt the need to try an protect the industry from people who I thought would do harm to all of us, or people who pick on haunts like those asylum people, or churches who would use haunts as a way to find new followers why giving haunts a bad name, or people who would try and urggg its too painfull to think about.

Haunts do not get respect. People take us for granted and I for one can't stand it and I stand up against it each and every time. I myself feel a step slower, like I can't do this forever.

As life goes on priorities change, and my kids whom are 7 and 9 are more important with all the things that go on in their lives. Spending hours upon hours on here fighting with one person after another or chasing down every single injustice well just isn't in the cards for me anymore.

Seems like Shane to some degree will pick up on some of it, and I see others stepping up as well. For me if someone BRINGS IT in a bad way oh boy you know I'll be front and center ready to kick teeth in but petty stuff like fighting with indivduals like Pickel or whomever ahhh I'd rather shake hands and move on.

I did the national PR program because of horrible stories I read about haunted houses, sex offender haunt, and worse. I pushed for this new tradeshow because of Rubies attitude against our industry, not to be trapped between this retail war, I wanted to help start HHA so maybe a voice that all could be part of could lead and guide us for the next decade.

I really do think its time to work together and I hope you do that through HHA... www.hauntedhouseassocation.org (http://www.hauntedhouseassocation.org).

HHA will work with HAM be it through Leonard or the Pope doesn't matter.

I called Leonard a few weeks ago and offered to assist promoting Hauntcon and we are... I will continue to do that! I'm not unhappy for Leonard that he sold out HAM because I know its a lot of work, its hard and it might have been holding him back to some degree. I wish the new owner much success and hope he does a great job. The industry is counting on it!

I'm counting on it!

I hope Hauntcon does well, I hope NHC does well, and the whole list!

Lets move on and work together! As for my relationship with Leonard, I did not agree with things he's done or said, and I spoke out against those things but that was yesterday and today is today and tommorow is well a new day! I look forward to here and now and the future! Rich Hanf has always been my friend, a great friend, one of the best, and always will be! Rich Hanf is a guy who hates injustice and has fought to help put this industry where it is today... RICH THANK YOU for seeing the future, predicting it, and fighting for a better one. Lets all figure out a way to put our desire for a better industry together working for each other and making all that energy spin positive results for all.

Larry

graystone
04-16-2009, 02:56 PM
I read Larrys last post. And my question is? What did I do or not do or should do? I have read it a couple of times and am missing what you/he is saying with me. LOL I just am trying to understand LOL so please someone help me out here and explain what Larry is saying. Shane and its I suppose I am having a blond moment! Shane this time.

drfrightner
04-16-2009, 04:39 PM
Shane,

Sometimes you go overboard we've discussed this but on the other hand you keeping people straight is something that must be done... I did it for years and it seems like you are taking my place. I welcome it.

Some of what you do is a good thing I agree. You seem to have taken on this role of keeping peoples facts straight and putting people on notice who try to put a hurting on anyone in this industry. I did this for years and took a lot of grief for it sometimes, which you have as well.

You must just remember not every situation is what it seems, some people deserve a second chance or a chance to fix wrongs into rights!

Some don't! Agreed! LOL

Larry

graystone
04-16-2009, 05:51 PM
Well I thought thats what you were saying but I was not for sure! Shane and its Principal Shane LMAO!! This time!

Mike Honcho
04-16-2009, 06:19 PM
I didn't pay attention to auction, I had a pretty bad headache and was in a pretty bad mood that night. Thanks for trying though, LOL!

funny how east st louis can do that lol among other things haha

Boni
04-17-2009, 09:03 AM
Well I thought thats what you were saying but I was not for sure! Shane and its Principal Shane LMAO!! This time!

Larry and Shane, its nice to see you guys agreeing on something. Hey, is that a pig flying.;)