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View Full Version : Your take on the St Louis Transworld Show 2009



Kelly Anderson
05-19-2009, 12:38 PM
For those who have attended or will be attending the Transworld show:

I've been going to the Transworld shows for the past 6 years now. Although I missed the Vegas show 2 years ago. As a haunter and a retailer I liked attending both the party show and the haunt show. There were several companies I had hopes of seeing that ended up not being there. I had heard that there was an earlier date for the party show.

Whats your take on having those shows held on seperate dates?

Kelly Anderson
HauntYourHouse.NET

Nightgore
05-19-2009, 01:12 PM
My thoughts...

-Hauntshow dates... LATE March to early April!
-Location, I LOVE St. Louis... but I want to be further south, maybe Atlanta? Nashville? Louisville? I think it shouldn't go any more west than the Mississippi River and any more north than the Interstate 64 corridor.
-Two shows... we are lucky to have our own show, we don't need the reatil side. The MAJORITY of haunts, don't sell retail. If you do... GO TO THE RETAIL SHOW! Yeah, they're good to have around to 'look at'... but do they benefit our show, hell no!

There's ALOT of discussion on this, ALOT of arguements... my thoughts on it all won't ever change... this is just how I could see the best possible HAUNTshow. -Tyler

xxxdirk
05-19-2009, 01:26 PM
One show, Chicago, Late March

drfrightner
05-19-2009, 02:20 PM
Here we go again crying for the one show thing... There might not even BE A HALLOWEEN show in Chicago atleast the way you know it. All of those vendors for the Halloween show are doing one or the other or if they do both they'll scale down to nearly nothing at one or the other. They just like us can't afford this nine billion shows.

Its probably going to come down to one or the other and right now all signs point to Houston... would you have our vendors go there and be treated like second class citizens and pay $2500.00 for a booth? Would you prefer to go there and have retail vendors tell you 'we won't sell to you'.

Time to move on!

We got this show started just in time before the bomb went off! Let the retail people do what they need to do we shouldn't worry about it we are ATTRACTION OWNERS!

I will tell you this much before its all said and done a lot of those retail vendors you think so much of will be at the Haunt Show in 2010.

Once we can ALL move past the fact that those days are OVER, we can start to focus on what IS and not what isn't. What is, is that we have our own show and many halloween vendors want to come!

Lets grow this show not a retail show.

In the end I hope Transworld prevails over Rubies in this Halloween retail slugfest but whatever happens there doesn't concern me I'm not interested in Batman costumes.

Larry

xxxdirk
05-19-2009, 03:22 PM
Well, the question was what I would like to see happen. It is my choice, the same way it is yoyur choice, Larry, to plead your case for St Louis. Hell, if I had a haunt in St Louis, and the chance to sell 1000 tickets at $50 a pop, I would be drooling over the convention too. :) I dont blame you man, it's a chance to showcase your haunt and it is just smart business and you are a pretty smart business man.

As far as what will happen with the costume side of the show, that is TW to decide. All I know is that the TW show in Chicago was a huge show, worthy of national media coverage IMHO. It was packed there Fri & Sat and even 1/2 of the day on Sun. Then in 2007, SOMETHING happened. No one really knows exactly what was said in the meeting of the Rubies and the other big boys, but for whatever reason, some of the vendors went with Houston and some to Vegas. I was at Vegas and it sucked in 2008. It seems that Houston was a success, and then from the reports I heard Vegas sucked SO bad this year and so now TW is moving the Costume show back to Chicago in 10. St Louis was an OK convention, but still, in the scheme of things really small compared to what TW used to have. Heck, I saw the ENTIRE show floor in 2 hours!Is it a media worthy event? Maybe, but not as a huge event that Chicago used to be. It would take me at least 2 full days to see all of Chicago's floor!!

So where are we at? IMHO, and it is MHO, TW has a lot of damage control to do. If I was TW I would be on the phone right now, begging as many vendors to come back to the Chicago for the costume show. I would basically be giving my booth space away at a breakeven/make as little profit as I can to fill that booth space and make as big of a show as I can. I would then do whatever it took to get the buyers to come including updating my website more than just a week before the show!! Then I would, in 2011, move the haunt convention back to Chicago and make the convention the Godzilla of all conventions.
Will any of this happen? IDK. To me it makes good sense, but I am just a little fish......

Darkblood
05-19-2009, 04:02 PM
If the show was in Chicago I'd have a place to stay free as my brother-in-law lives near there in Antioch.
lol
I'm all for the show in Titusville, Pennsylvania...lol
Hey so what if it's a town of 6000 people only...it's got that 'rustic charm'!
lol
I'll be looking forward to hopefully making it next year wherever (getting laid off this year didn't help making it so)...
And right after I read Ron's post...and was scrolling down and saw Larry responded...I thought "Uh oh!" lol
Kirk

UndeadProd
05-19-2009, 04:17 PM
My take, with all due respect:

Transworld is 9 to 10 months away

My haunt opens in less than 4 months.

Much more focused on Sept/October than Feb/March.

Just sayin'

drfrightner
05-19-2009, 04:46 PM
Ron,

Its not about a haunt opening, I would be saying the same thing now, as I was saying 5 years ago the haunt industry needs its own show period! We proved we are big enough to have our own show and its going to grow. Its about our industry not any haunt tour, not one vendor over another vendor, its about the whole industry.

Look man we are two different people, I don't let people kick me around, I fight for what I believe in, I fight against people who tell me I'm not good for them... the retail industry hated us, I was told several times we're nothing we mean nothing to Halloween.

Well I think our end had the successful show not their end...right?

We showed them! Now they kick the tires to see if we'd come to Houston...my only repsonse is F*CK OFF! You had your chance and you treated us like dirt! Aside from that end, we are not retailers we have different needs such what kind of buyers we need for our vendors, to what types of education should be provided.

We are a different industry whether you want to embrace that or not we are NOT Halloween retailers! We have 100 times more in common with Six Flags than Spirits! My main point to you and others is stop crying about that silly Halloween retail show its nearly worthless to you and make the show you have better. If you want to see other sorts of vendors call them tell them, encourage them!

See what I'm saying.

Larry

Kelly Anderson
05-19-2009, 05:37 PM
Like one of you guys said here earlier, Im all for making the haunt show even bigger and better.

Ive been doing a charity haunt now for the past 7 years. Ive been to the TW shows almost every year since. YOU BET I want to see a KICK-BUTT haunt show. But the fact of reallity is that not every body attending the haunt show is going to spend a thousand dollars or more on a prop. Wether Im there representing my business or my haunt, there has always been a time (for me anyway) when Im dealing with businesses from both sides.

I think alot of the succes of the haunt show comes from the party show, but without a dout, the party show benifts from the haunt show as well.

And if some of you arent there to buy "Batman" costumes, thats fine with me. But having those two shows together, generates more buyers. And more buyers will bring more vendors and most likely a bigger and better haunt show. (my opinion)

Thanks alot for everyones feed back!

Kelly Anderson
HauntYourHouse.NET

graystone
05-19-2009, 07:28 PM
I still would like to see the shows combined. I have no problem with it at all. Heck call it the Haunted Attraction Halloween Haunt Show for all I care. I think the retail side still offered some good make up and costume vendors that Haunt owners could use.

Now moving forward as much as I want this to happen I don't think it will. At this point feelings are hurt, vendors are hurt, buyers are hurt and tired of the 100 different shows. I do feel and think that some of the Halloween show vendors will start to vend at the Haunt show.

I was aginst it from the start and went head to head with Larry several times over this. I will give him this and guys this is going to hurt me more than any animal bite I have ever had. But I got to say....... well what I got to say is.........ummmmmm....... well he...... well he was RIGHT! Ok there I said it. I think he was actually right this time and got to say I am sorry I was totally wrong on this one! There said it and moved on LOL! I think we made it out just in time. I will also say I blame RUBIES FOR ALL OF THIS. I now refuse to buy anything directly from them for my stores! Actually I had already had my fill of the way they treat mom and pop stores. We put them where they are at today and now all they give A DAMN ABOUT IS WAL-MART! As far as second class they been treating us that way for years now so as far as being in the retail business we were already used to that!!

Anyway again its best we move on and encourage some of the better makeup and costume Halloween vendors to join the Haunt show! So whos with me? Shane and its I am still hurting over this one LOL! Shane this time!

michaeldavy
05-19-2009, 07:50 PM
AS FAR AS MAKE UP
Haunters go to TW to buy products in bulk because they are end users - use ALOT-
I agree there is no reason that they SHOULD pay retail for thier makeup IF they are buying quantity, and most do.

I get complaints from retailers who sell my make up at a 30% discount after a 60 % mark up . they make less but more of it. They get upset because I sell to haunters as well as retailers. My solution was (and still is) :

small quantities 1oz 2oz 4oz are packaged for retail sale on a wholesale discount while larger sizes 16oz, 32oz, gal, 5 gal etc are on a flat volume discount by virtue of its size. Most end users will be using the larger sizes and are happy for the discoutn and the wise retailers will buy the bulk and break it down for the big profits

I feel that both retailers and haunters can be satisfied why can't TW with one show. I really don't care about chi or stl. but I will say that TW has a long way to go to build my trust again after Vegas. I would rather see 20 small shows charging 300 for a booth than another Vegas with few buyers and a 2000 booth and another 2000 in freight charges.

I couldn't GIVE catalogs away. I have NEVER been to a show where I couldn't give stuff away Until Vegas.
for what Vegas cost me I could have done MWHC, hauntcon, and numerous twicons or comic cons.

drfrightner
05-20-2009, 01:07 AM
Yeah Vegas was a TOTAL BUST... I personally don't think going to Chicago is going to change anything nor is going to Houston. One show will die and one show will live just have to see what happens.

But thankfully we don't have to worry about it!

As haunters we have our own SHOW!

Larry

Grimley
05-20-2009, 07:21 AM
We decided just to go to Houston next year. I can't stomach Chicago any more and if was anything like Vegas this year it will die in 2010. This will be the first time in six years that we will not attend the Transworld Halloween show.

Mr Nightmarez
05-20-2009, 08:22 AM
The combination show offered more for me than the Haunt Show alone. But as we are all different people and different views... that's just me.

I know that they (Retail Side) don't like us. But I also know I bought a lot from those companies along w/ the Haunt stuff... now I'm having to go to multiple shows, where I could kill all in one show. (But I guess that's my problem) but the other offerings were good for haunters too, but that was then and this is now...

I believe Atlanta - Nashville - St. Louis - triple threat rotation for the Haunt Show would be a good way to work it. Being in St. Louis every year would suck. But if it moved every other year or yearly to a Central US City that might not see snow - that would be great. And by rotating the cities - you get a chance to see more than just Larry's show. (Been there done that now)

The SHOW was amazing and was better than I anticipated. The after show events sucked. (IMO) Other than a couple cool bars we found within blocks of the hotel.

GoryCorey
05-20-2009, 09:51 AM
Lets keep a few things in perspective.

Expo halls over the past 10 years demand 2 year contracts.

Hence Vegas 2008-2009.

Chicago 2010-2011 for TW HPS.
From what I understand in 2011, TW is hoping to bring both shows under the same roof in Stephenson again.

HPE (Houston January Show) has existed prior to 2009, as a much smaller early show comparable to the NYC Toy Center Early show (Also produced by TW in December), it is just 1 month later.

They (Houston) renamed and repackaged the show and used Rubies, and PaperFirst muscle to leverage buyers to that "new" show.

FYI - the big buyers have already done 90% of their purchasing in December.
Houston is picking up the slack from the mostly smaller companies (and there are many) who need to buy for their stores.
Some major buyers come to hopefully find a few items for the big box stores they did not see in December.

The vendor issue, is for the small to moderate sized companies who make both retail and Haunt products, not unlike Minions Web.
We need to cater to both markets.

As a vendor I can tell you it take no less than 3-5 grand to walk out the door and attend a show.
But to do both shows, is a considerable expense, one that we have to sell a lot more merchandise to cover the additional show costs.
A bad show means mark ups to the retail market to cover expenses.

Houston, was not the swarmed with buyers event some few vendors claimed it to be, trust me.

We were there with our booth, it was terrible for many vendors, large and small.
I got to know a number of them quite well while in between doing the Billy Mays hawking.
There was a lot more talking time than hawking time.

From those who sold or attended at LV that I have spoken to, Houston was not the bloodbath of Vegas, but it was not Hauntshow numbers by any stretch.

You know we did both Houston and St Louis - St Louis was a pleasant surprise.
We did not know what to expect with Hauntshow this year.
I had been displeased with the overall costs to do Vegas.
St Louis was an improvement though we there were additional expenses to do St Louis vs Chicago.

Now if the shows do reconverge again in Chicago in 2011 as I have been told, I do not know what to think about it.

It would make life easier for vendors to show to both audiences in one location.
Many of us have crossover buyers, many of you want to look at both sections, if not for products, for ideas.

But will the "other buyers" come to a consolidated show again after this and next years debacles?

SpookywoodsFX.com
05-20-2009, 10:21 AM
I don't care as much where it is but rather who attends. Larry, what do you mean "we have our own show"? Transworld isn't the only show, is it?

As a vendor, I would rather have a show for buyers. Buyers make the show. Wait... Vendors make the show!
Hhmmmm... One without the other??
The bigger the show, the more buyers will attend....
The bigger the show, the more vendors will attend...
Can you argue with either?

Vegas, a bust? Too expensive, sure. But how did the vendors do in '08? Did the buyers have a good time outside the show? Creepy place, in my opinion, but the show was my concern, not the night life. We sold to allot of "big names" that did not make the St. Louis show. Why didn't they make it to the St. Louise show, Larry? That retail side brought in ALLOT of buyers (read, buyers), as did the haunt side. As a vendor I want MORE buyers there, not less. There were less buyers in St. Louis. I want the buyer to see things that they weren't expecting to see (from the haunt side) and make those spontaneous purchases.
In Chicago, a couple years ago, I had a blast. I wasn't a vendor but I had a great time looking at EVERYTHING, not just the haunt side. It's great to see ALL the new things on display. I know that there are vendors and buyers alike that sit on either side of the fence but what does it hurt? What's the problem with both at a show? Parking?
I would imagine that it may be difficult, or not within budget for a company (or for whatever reason), to send these buyers to more than one or two shows a year. As a buyer, which one to go to? Depends on your needs but how do you know you 'need' something if you don't know it exists? Wal-Mart or Target? Both have similar products but I get my prescriptions filled at Wal-Mart, so that's where I go. Target loses my my business on groceries, general products and some clothing needs. It's great for ME, as a buyer, to have more options but Target loses my business because I'm not going to drive to both.
Transworld did the haunt side dirty this year with the set-up they had and advertising they did at and for the Vegas show.

mindtumor
05-21-2009, 07:51 PM
Can we just combine it with Wizard World and a powerlifting competition? That way I can buy haunt products, do a comic convention, and compete all on one trip. That is what is in my best interest.

Mr Nightmarez
05-22-2009, 06:56 AM
Or just take it to California and coincide with Comicon?
Or Megacon in Orlando?
Or Fangoria Weekend....

I think the key is - It's not about us vs them - It's an entire industry - like it or not - the retail side and haunters side will crossover.
Where are the buyers and where can the vendors go to actually compensate and get actual buyers? The cost that vendors take and endure to get the products to buyers needs to be equaled by the number of buyers so they can actually offset the cost per show. (Of course - since they want to stay in business!)

A lot of valid points and things to ponder. Sadly the vendors need to be the driving force. As I will have to attend in order to buy - but vendors don't have to show... Regardless of the debate - if I were a vendor I would have to make the call on where am I getting the most BANG for my buck.

Witht the number of shows: MHC, NHC, Hauntcon, TW, Fangoria, Etc - not to mention smaller or other cons... I can only imagine how tough it is for the vendors to figure out where they need to be vs where they want to be and where they wish they could be...

MDKing
05-22-2009, 09:25 AM
The better vendors can make all the difference where we all go! If top vendors say we're going to convention X and thats their only convention they are showing at, then thats where most people will go!

Allan

Mr Nightmarez
05-22-2009, 10:20 AM
The better vendors can make all the difference where we all go! If top vendors say we're going to convention X and thats their only convention they are showing at, then thats where most people will go!

Allan
"
EXACTLY! As they say "Build it and they will come" Well it worked for Filed of Dreams
So if the Vendors show support for XXX Show - the haunter's will follow.

Ken Spriggs
05-22-2009, 10:27 AM
Ron........Hell of a man for standing your ground!
Larry.....Quit ripping on people for their opinion.....he is making you money by even showing up on this message board. You made money off him at the Darkness and he probably subscribes to Hauntworld......be nice to people!

We need to stand behind shows......I will see how MHC goes this weekend before I say anything more on the subject.

NOW WE ALL KNOW THAT I REALLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYY WANT THE SHOW BACK IN CHICAGO!!!!
Yep....admission for DR just went to an arm and a leg......need new props!!!! lol

CORY?.....nice!

Ken Spriggs
05-22-2009, 10:32 AM
Ohhh and TODD????
I am with you on that XXX SHOW !!!!!

Costumes will be alot easier for that crowd!!!!

graystone
05-22-2009, 06:14 PM
Hell I got plenty of room we got like 200,000sqft yall come to BAMA! Booths will be free!!!!!! Shane and its call now to reserve your booth space! Shane this time!!

drfrightner
05-23-2009, 11:59 PM
Ken,

I am NOT ripping on ANYONE for their opinion. You post yours, he'll post his, and I'll post mine. Fact is if someone is going to make a statement that I have some information that shows it to be false I will let people know what I know.

I have spoken to MANY vendors and some did awesome and some did great, and some did okay, and some didn't do as good as last year. Its all over the board but overall costs went down, profits went up for most vendors. Some simply got more leads than they ever imagined but didn't turn them into sales at the show.

Bottom line however is the shows are NOT going to combine so talking about it rather than working on making what we have better is a waste of time. People should learn to get on the same page, work together and see some positive results, rather than always twisting in five different directions.

That is my opinion and that isn't ripping on anyone. Lastly, just because someone bought my magazine, or bought a banner ad, doesn't mean I should not state my opinion because I will I always will just like you do. Hey I bought your scents and it doesn't keep your mouth from spitting out your opinions pro or con for me against me... so take your own advice.

You have an opinion, I have one, and so does several others.

I can live with the fact that not everyone can agree, however sometimes we need to come together just a bit more!

Larry

PS: I don't make five cents from people visiting this message board not even two cents. So lets keep the facts straight. If the message board went awol it wouldn't have any impact on my bank account you can rest better tonight knowing that! LOL

drfrightner
05-24-2009, 12:08 AM
Spookywoods FX...

"We now have our own show" ... you asked a question let me respond.

No we don't own the show however there is a board of haunt vendors who more or less pushed everything in the direction and affected the outcome of how most everything was done, marketed, and more. In addition this same board is working with TW right now to keep the costs low for vendors, showing them how to go after additional buyers, and fixing the show to make it better for both buyers and vendors.

Secondly, considering its a Halloween Attraction show, and you as a haunt vendors, and others as haunt owners its a SHOW FOR YOURS and everyone elses business.

So yeah I call it our own show.

I wouldn't call a show dominated by retail associations, retail vendors, and retail buyer groups OUR SHOW would you?

As for the other shows, they are all fine and dandy but we all know the show that means the most to your business is this Transworld haunt show, it draws the most buyers, the most vendors, and the most orders are writen. Its important to all vendors and buyers.

That is NOT to say IAAPA isn't important or that MHC or Hauntcon isn't important no no no but putting things in proper perspective this is how most vendors feed their families, means the most to their survival and now that the show focuses on YOUR BUSINESS rather than Rubies you should be happy as a peach!

Larry

Grimley
05-24-2009, 12:47 AM
You keep saying the shows won't get back together. Lately it seems things change from day to day with these things. If we continue to push for them to get back together they eventually will. Call your Transworld rep today. 1 show.

drfrightner
05-24-2009, 01:19 AM
Grim... do yourself a favor and go back to those threads on the Vegas show and take a deep hard look at them. How many vendors do you think are going back for round two on that one? You tell me.

See some of you seem to forget that this is a business, its not all fun and games. It costs THOUSANDS of dollars to go to these shows, THOUSANDS! A rubies for example I've heard spend as much as half a million going to a show. How many times do you think they want to spend that much money? You tell me?

Look we all need to face it... Houston is taking over, they are the new Haloween retail show. They have the evil empire on their side... LOL.

Our vendors can't afford $2500.00 a booth or putting our chips into a show that isn't much better than the Vegas/Chicago show, and further to that Houston doesn't have any clue how to promote to haunters and wouldn't because Rubies runs the show for the most part.

Its better to have the focus on haunts, and if retail vendors want to come they will... lastly nothing against the haunted fans, but if you polled HAUNT OWNERS ONLY you'll find over 85% of them doesn't want to go back with those retail vendors.

I was just talking to a friend in Tennessee who owns a haunt who said to me like so many others... HE WAS TIRED OF RETAILERS telling him 'WE WONT SELL TO YOU". They make you feel like you are worthless.

The last year in Vegas I almost knocked out a retailer who told me 'we won't sell to your kind'.... I'm like what am I a mutant? I was pissed ... he then said something to me that set me off and then we got into a pissing match. I was pissed.

I went straight to Scott Morris and told him about it...

That wasn't the first time it happened. Bottom line is if you are a Halloween fan, yard haunter or whatever YES you want to see the shows combined but as a haunt owner I want to see stuff strickly for attractions and lastly only want to spend my time dealing with companies that want to sell to me.

Last but not least I'll put 10 to 1 on it that you'll see two or three times more retail vendors at the show next year. They'll be there or at least the ones that actually want to sell to haunters.

Larry

Grimley
05-24-2009, 09:38 AM
Larry,

First I find it very VERY hard to believe any vendor would tell anyone they won't sell to them. Especially the way the economy is going. I can understand that you don't meet the minimum order quantity but telling someone they can't buy is bull...t. Sorry I'm gonna have to ask you which company that was because I don't believe it. And don't give me this I don't wanna say who it was because you have no reason to protect such a deadbeat. NO REASON. So who was it.

Secondly yes it does cost vendors thousands of dollars to go to these shows but as buyers we spend thousands to go as well. Especially when the shows are split up. 6 airline ticket and four hotel rooms is not cheap. Hell we may spend more than some of the vendors now that the shows are split. It was way to easy when the shows were together to see everyone and buy what we needed.

And Third if the vendors are paying $1500 for a booth at the haunt show and see 2000 buyers versus paying $2500 for the big show and seeing 8000 buyers I think they are getting a deal. They would be seeing at least twice the number of qualified buyers at the big show. Be realistic for a second. I don't know about you but I met a lot of home haunters at the show taking a lot of pictures and doing nothing else. Great people but not buyers. So for less money you get more exposure. And the vendors may just meet people like us that cross over and make nice orders. Orders we may never have placed had we not attended both shows.

There I'm done.

drfrightner
05-24-2009, 01:04 PM
No offense but sometimes I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall... considering the shows are NOT going back together I don't know why I even bother to explain this but one more time.

Can I ask you do you own a haunted house? That has a lot to do with this really. Secondly, yes I was told and yes many haunters where told many many times YOU CAN NOT BUY FROM US. You know this is nothing new why don't you go to IAAPA and try to buy say an air hockey game. YOU CANT... why because they won't sell you just one and they have distributors. You have to deal with them and pay the higher price. Again nothing new you could go to all sorts of tradeshows and unless you have the proper type of store they won't sell to you to protect their real buyers.

The retailers tried to get the hauntes booted about six years ago... where you around for that or did you come along since? Yeah that happened too... how do you explain that one? Why do you think this whole Houston thing got started, well not all because of haunters but that is one of the big reasons. It would take me 30 minutes of typing to explain it all but yep we are not wanted so why would you want to be somewhere where you are not wanted. Transworld also got pushed into this seperate badges for haunters so retailers COULD PICK YOU OUT SO THEY KNEW... NOPE don't want to deal with you!

I don't think you understand the history to make the proper statements you have made because I'm telling you what I'm saying is right. Either way and lastly you said put everything together so people can buy what they need... LOL LOL LOL!

I really laugh at that one because I've said it before ... lets see Rubies sells Batman and Robin, they sell Star Wars costumes, and well there are pumpkin carving kits, there are cheap 10 dollar masks, there is hmmm yard decor, cheap tombstones, plastic weapons, wigs, all sorts of silly adult costumes, and tons and tons of sexy cloths and a lot more.

If you own a haunt why do you need any of that non-sense? Do retailers need giant animations? Do retailers need $600 props or $40 made in mexico or china props? Do haunters want $40 dollar made in mexico props, or $6000 Scarefactory animations?

You tell me. Bottom line is there are a few a very few retailers that might want something and they know where it all is just like Spirits who came to ST LOUIS TRANSWORLD!

There are Halloween retail vendors who know where we are and they are more than welcome to come and exhibit in 2010 and guess what THEY WILL YOU'LL SEE... but the vendor that sells Batman costumes still won't be there and we don't need them anyway!

Its fun to look at and you know what I'll be at my local SPIRITS STORE LOOKING IN OCTOBER! That way I didn't have to go but down the street! LOL

Larry

drfrightner
05-24-2009, 01:22 PM
Now back to the real subject at hand and no one can dispute this...

1) Houston Halloween Retail show: Many thought sales where light, traffic was light, and people thought because the traffic didn't show up many people would be going to Vegas. The early word was Houston would dismantle Transworld, all vendors went to Houston and someone took a wait and see for Vegas. After this show looked like a BOMB everyone started booking booths in Vegas thinking 'oh yeah I guess everyone is sticking with Transworld'.

2) Transworld Vegas: Transworlds spirits went high as a kite after Houston results came in. Transworld poured more into advertising this show than any show before. I think everyone thought this show was going to rock because of the let down in Houston. NOPE... this one was a bigger bomb than Houston. Some people say fewer than 500 attended a show that once drew in nearly 10,000. Hardly any vendors, almost no buyers the show is being moved back to Chicago in hopes to salvage it.

3) Haunt Show St. Louis: Many thought it woud bomb after what happened in Houston and Vegas and because many thought haunts was too small to have its own show. Results: OVER FIVE THOUSAND PEOPLE ATTENDED including tons of Halloween retail vendors to walk the show, including tons of retail buyers.

END RESULT: It is clear Chicago and Houston retail shows can't survive with both still going and the vendors and the buyers know this. Now with Transworld moving their show back to Chicago in an even colder month than before and both shows in the Midwest so to speak, and because the shows are nearly right on top of each other, one of these shows is headed for a TOTAL AND UTTER MELTDOWN! 2010 will be the last year for one of these shows...take your pick. Rubies in one corner and Transworld in the other.

Haunt Show thrived out from under the shell and influence of retailers. Now that haunts are free and clear all marketing dollars spent are spent to promote haunts and attractions ONLY and attendance and number of vendors thrived!

BOTTOM LINE: Haunt show will go on without retail but add even more attraction related vendors and even more retail vendors for 2010 and beyond. Retail shows will continue to slide to the point maybe both will go under because most Halloween retail vendors are now down to a handfull of companies and don't need tradeshows to place orders.

To be straight to the original question there is my assessment.

Larry

michaeldavy
05-24-2009, 02:58 PM
What upsets me is that TW charges $2500 per booth and lies to your face.

When I talk to TW about next year I ask them if the shows
are going to be back together? They tell me "Oh yeah the shows will be in Chicago next year. We're talking with them (haunters) now".......... "wanna booth RIGHT NOW? I'll give ya a discount. I'll sell you a booth for $2000 (that's actually worth MAYBE $1000) and discount it $500 if you pay it down today!!!" This is obviously sarcasm.........or is it?

How can a booth be worth $2500 anyway? That's just greed. I'm no trade show expert but there must be some ratio between square footage cost for a hall and the number of attendees/ vendors minimum. even with unions.

As far as I'm concerned TW has a long way to go to earn my trust and dollars back! Their booth prices need to be competitive with other haunt shows. I just can't understand why they charge what they do when it is clear that is can be done for less, successfully (the list of examples is long). The ONLY answer is greed. Certainly their "show" aspect is on par with IAPPA but It's overkill if you ask me. I would perfer less "glitz" and lower prices.

I'm probably going to try Houston and St Louis (If houston was good) and MHC next year.
Houston only because the industry buzz is positive and I need some positive buyers after TW V. Like it or not I think it's resolved that vendors to Houston, Haunters to St Louis for 2010.

I fully expect to see prices for both TWSL and Houston to go up next year!

Where is HauntCon next (this coming) year?

Grimley
05-24-2009, 03:46 PM
There is a little contradiction in your statements Larry. First off you state that vendors have told you they won't sell to you. I still don't believe that but chances are they wouldn't give you wholesale which you should not be entitled to. You should have to pay full price. Secondly you said you never buy from the Halloween side because they sell batman costumes and so forth which you laugh at because haunts don't use those items. I would be willing to bet if I went through your haunts I could pick out many items that came from these vendors.

At the last and best point is that you said Halloween vendors refused to sell to you even though you just stated you don't buy from Halloween vendors and don't need those items. So if you never buy from them then how could they refuse you. Batman costume and all.

michaeldavy
05-24-2009, 09:21 PM
1) Houston Halloween Retail show: Many thought sales where light, traffic was light, and people thought because the traffic didn't show up many people would be going to Vegas. The early word was Houston would dismantle Transworld, all vendors went to Houston and someone took a wait and see for Vegas. After this show looked like a BOMB everyone started booking booths in Vegas thinking 'oh yeah I guess everyone is sticking with Transworld'.

I'm interested in knowing who you spoke with regarding the "light traffic in Houston" and "going to Vegas".

Can you specify who "People " and "everyone" are?
I'm genuinely curious because then I may be able to discerne a bit about what's going on because right now it's hard to follow and decide where I should go. I can't follow who are the players in this game. Facts lend credibility as opposed to rumor.
I'm not being argumentative but I need to know who says this because I may see motivations that aren't on the surface.

Some people want to manipulate the market for their own reasons, aside from the resons I want to attend a particular show. I took TW's word on the vegas show and was burned and now I need to be a bit more discerning.
Thanks

drfrightner
05-24-2009, 10:36 PM
Grim...

There was some companies that sold HIGH END RENTAL costumes those companies would not sell to me even though I told them we build attractions and bought HIGH END rental costumes.

Let me tell you something...if I went to a pizza convention, or a dentist convention, or a electronic show, or a whatever I bet you I can find something I could use something I could buy. Does that make it worth the attendance? NO!

The Halloween RETAIL SHOW is stuff for consumers, silly Halloween stuff, trick or treat costumes, that is 90 plus percent of everything that is there. Can you find SOMETHING SURE... but does it make it worth making a trip? NO!

Most of you guys refuse to go to IAAPA... dumb move but still you don't go. I've heard time and time again oh no i don't need a roller coaster. Okay whatever IAAPA is an attraction show and there is 1000 times more stuff there you can use for your attraction there than at some retail show.

Bottom line is this... you don't believe me well you are wrong! I'll tell you what how about you put up 1000.00 in a bet with me....I'll find you 20 other haunters to tell you the same thing. If I had all day to call people I'd get 100 to tell you that, no make that 200 to tell you that. You think I'm making that up?

Look man you still haven't answered the question do you own a haunt? I'm betting the answer is no... so ya I get it you'd rather see all the stuff in one place. I get it.

Now you like to sit here and ask questions and imply stuff, so simply answer my questions that I've asked you. Do you own a haunt? What haunt? What are your intentions for going to the show to look, buy, have a good time, what? I just want to know where your position is coming from.

Lastly you didn't even touch on the fact that the REALITY IS that the show you want to combine with is dead as a door knob... explain how that is going to be good for our industry. I'd like to hear that one. Also while you are at it tell us why the vendors should go to a retail show and pay double booth prices. Tell me that one.

You just slide right over the clear reasons why its better like this... I think your position is selfish you are not thinking about what is best for the majority. You don't even address how the retailers tried to get rid of us, you just want the shows together no matter how it affects the vendors, what the benefits are to the buyers, or how this industry is treated by retailers. Again that is selfish.

Look I'm done... you know what I'm saying. Who cares... its going getting put back together EVER! Help make our industies show better and lets stop crying about what was and focus on what is.

Larry

drfrightner
05-24-2009, 10:40 PM
Mike,

There is a thread on this site probably on page two or three with photos from Houston and photos from Vegas. Both shows went in the dumps... call anyone who attended. Vegas was a total bust it was a disaster. Houston with all of rubies backing didn't do even 25% OF THE TRAFFIC OF THE OLD TRANSWORLD SHOWS.

NO ONE IS HAPPY in the retail world you can bet on that.

Bottom line is they had a good thing and they ruined it not just Transworld as many likes to blame but all of them they all had a hand in ruining the show.

The future doesn't look bright no matter what happens... Spirits, Halloween Express, Walmart, Target, and Party City in combination with the online costume stores have put the ma and pa's to bed, out of business. Tradeshows for Halloween retail aren't needed like it was 5 years ago, no matter what happens they are all going to get smaller and smaller and it will be down to one show.

Larry

Grimley
05-25-2009, 12:00 AM
Alright I will tackle these one at a time.

First- I sat down and asked myself - In my lifetime have I ever had an instance where I had the money to buy something that someone was selling and they refused to sell it to me. I have to say in my 30 years that has never happened. But, I don't have any right to call you a liar so I will accept maybe it happened to you.

Second- You comparing a haunt convention and a dentist convention is laughable. I actually chuckled when I read it. Let me give you a better example. Lets say you go to a tattoo convention and there is a piercing convention going on upstairs. They are two completely different things. Would some people from the tattoo convention go upstairs to check out the other. Yes. The same goes with Halloween and haunt. They are so related they become one and the same. Halloween will be around long after haunts are gone. I can not say the same thing if it were the other way around. Here is an even better example. The first year we attended Transworld we went to the Halloween show not even knowing about the haunt show. This was five or six years ago. We did the Halloween show and then ventured upstairs and were blown away. Not only did we spend a full 30% of our budget there I bought a huge series of haunt DVD's. Thats right Larry I bought your entire dvd series at the once combined show. I don't remember how much it was maybe $150 bucks at the time. You got that sale because we went to the combined show. I also got a subscription to Hauntworld which we have had ever since. Had the shows been separate you and all of the other vendors we bought from would have lost out on valuable sales. Now every year we spend at lest 30-40% of our budget on haunt vendors. I won't go over specific numbers as this is not the place but we support a lot of haunt vendors.

Third- I have never claimed to be a haunt owner on this site. If you do read this regularly you would know that we are a retailer/online sales company. We go and actually BUY at the shows. I bring a camera and take pictures of the items we purchase. We bought from 7 vendors this year at the St Louis show.

Fourth- You say the show is dead and will not recombine. I hate to tell you this but they could announce tomorrow they will be back together. Money talks and if Transworld feels they will make a bigger profit next year by putting the shows back together THEY WILL. They split them up and they can just as easily put them back together.

drfrightner
05-25-2009, 12:19 AM
Grim,

1) The shows are not going to re-combine. Dude if you can read, no if you can read the writing on the wall you'd already see the reality that there is only going to be one show and it won't be in Chicago. From what I'm hearing, from how its looking Houston is the new show.

2) Do you think haunt vendors should pay more to go to Chicago, higher hotels, higher booth costs, just to see almost no retail buyers? Again I ask you aren't you be selfish??? How do you justify this industry paying more to go to a show.

3) No its not laughable... if I went to a dentist show or a medical show I'll find all sorts of stuff I could put in my haunted house. I just bought a dentist chair for example...HELLO! As for a tattoo show I bet I could find some airbrush equipment, I bet I could find some talented artists to do make up at my haunted house. Keep them coming I'll find something I can take a look at no matter what kind of show you throw out there. We'll go to a weapons show and I'll find someone to sell me some used military stuff to use at SiloX... again you miss the point totally. Halloween show isn't that much different than me going to some other show that doesn't focus on AMUSEMENT ATTRACTIONS!!!!!!!!!!! As I said before there is hardly ANYTHING THERE for an attraction owner. I'm glad you clarified you do not own an attraction you run an online store... good for you so yeah I get why you'd rather make one trip. But I like 99% of other haunters do not run a retail store or have a retail store so we dont' need batman costumes you do so I'm sure you are going to HOUSTON...

If you go to Chicago you won't see even half the vendors out there now will you... do you think we should combine up with them? Should we pay $2500 per booth to be their red headed step children while they don't like us nor have a clue how to promote our show... should we do that to accomodate YOU? You tell me.

4) As for you saying one vendor said they wouldn't sell to me no it was several over the last several years and I ALSO SAID it was rampant... I didn't say I was the only one. I threw down a bet to you...I see you didn't take that bet. For every $1000.00 I bring 25 people to YOU to tell you someone refused them, or treated them like dirt, told them to go away... no no I never said I was the only one there are TONS!

Dude did you just IGNORE what I said... the retailers pushed TW to badge the haunters differnet. WHY DO YOU THINK THEY DID THAT... DUH!!! HELLO ANYONE HOME... LOL! SO they can see a haunt coming from a mile away so they could tell them flat out they do not sell to haunters.

Fact is I don't even think it was haunters who harrassed those vendors it was the enthusiasts and that like who really have NO BUSINESS even being in the show to begin with. That is Transworld problem for never really keeping the show a business to business show rather having this open door policy where almost anyone could get in.

But that is another story. Anyway no matter what you say I will never agree as in EVER. I also think MOST haunt owners agree with me. I talked to at least 200 at the show itself and said they liked it better this way without those retailers. Bottom line doesn't matter and I will tell you again they are NOT going to re-combine and the only thing I even know about is Houston wanted to know if maybe we'd hook up with them now. NOPE!

The whole retail thing is really at war with each other HAUNT OWNERS are glad to be out of the middle of it... once all the dust settles I will tell you things could change but you are looking at 2 years before the dust settles. Additionally I think retailer buyers and vendors will come to the haunt show.

Last but not least in a perfect world haunters and IAAPA would be combined, there would be no water park show, no funexpo, no IAAPA asia show, no IAAPA india show, NO iaapa europe show, no mhc, no hauntcon, no halloween retail show, blah, blah... there would be ONE BIG GIANT BUILDING that somehow could fit everyone and everyone agreed on the dates, hotels would be cheap, the entry fee free, cheap booths costs for everyone, and everyone gave each other one big group hug....

Tell me what is the chances of all that happening...since its like zero, get over the fact that there are too many shows, dreaming of them all combining and just pick the shows that best suit your needs and go to that one, two or whatever. That is what I do. Its called the cost of doing business, its called the way it is and we can do little about it but either go or don't go.

I didn't go to the retail show and never will go again. I didn't go to IAAPA asia, europe, blah, blah, blah... they cost to much to go so I'm down to hauntshow and iaapa for me nothing more is needed.

Larry

Grimley
05-25-2009, 12:20 AM
Fifth- You say I am being selfish for wanting the show back together. This really kinda pisses me off. I think you are the only one being selfish here. I probably have most of the same dreams and desires you have for this industry. And by industry I mean the HAUNT/HALLOWEEN industry as they are one in the same. I think that the vendors want to make a good living doing what they love. And to do that you have to give them the best opportunity to sell. I will be the first to admit I am not a very smart guy. But you telling them to spend 50% less to see 75-80% less qualified buyers does not make much sense. How many real buyers do you think were at that show. If I had to guess I would say 300-500 maybe had buying power. Call up a few vendors you are close with and ask how many orders they took. When you say 5000 buyers what you really mean is 5000 attendees right. I looked around at the show just to watch and see how many people had order forms being filled out at the same time. Not a whole lot from what I remember. I was standing in the cold waiting to get into your haunt and we were waiting behind a group from a haunt that had 13 people with them. Only one was buying.

Sixth- I think you defend this show more because it is your baby. You have been the most vocal about needing a separate show and being treated like "second class citizens". Yes other people helped it along but it is your baby. In the same position I can't say I would not do the same thing. But you act out of blind faith rather than the voice of reason some times. The building could be burning down all around you and you would be screaming it was the best show ever. I want what you want Larry but just in a different way.

And to close- You continue to dwell in the past that Transworld and the Halloween show has always treated you as "second class citizens". That they would not support the show and tried to kick you out. Luckily they saw the error of their ways and everyone was allowed in. So now we come to this year and the shows split and you got your wish which was a haunt show. The Halloween side due to a number of factors this year that hit all at the same time stumbled bad. Now you are saying they were asking you to come back and you "stuck them the middle finger". So you are doing the exact same thing that you have hated all this time. You are treating them the same way they treated you. Get over it and move on. Think about all of the contacts and sales the vendors are going to miss out on when the buyers are not there.

I will now step off of the soap box...

Grimley
05-25-2009, 12:23 AM
Larry you didn't let me finish I don't type fast enough.

SpookywoodsFX.com
05-25-2009, 12:44 AM
Michael, what year Vegas show? This year or last?

You're right Larry, Transworld draws the most buyers. With less vendors now, it should continue to do so, obviously.
And you are %100 correct, I wouldn't "call a show dominated by retail associations, retail vendors, and retail buyer groups" our own. And that's what draws the most qualified buyers because it's important to them that we can call it "our own show" here on the forum. Besides, they were so... um.. In the way, anyway.
Being nothing more than "fine and dandy", who needs those "other shows"... I wonder why Transworld has always drawn in "the most buyers, the most vendors, and the most orders written". Couldn't be because of all those suit and ties walking around wasting the paper in haunt vendors receipt books. Good thing we got rid of those clowns!
Now the Transworld haunt show can be JUST like those "other shows".....

Did you just say that "there is a board of haunt vendors who more or less pushed everything in the direction and affected the outcome of how most everything was done, marketed, and more." Haunt vendors? Our own haunt vendors decided to separate the show so it would bring in less qualified buyers? To add us to the vendor list as if we were actually at the Vegas '09 show? That's BRILLIANT! I bet the buyers that went to that show were ecstatic to see the haunt pavilion void of us haunt vendors. Why didn't this "board" fight to lower the booth price? Transworld marketed to hell and back, just tweak it a bit to accommodate the haunters. And now that very same board is working with Transworld to "fix the show"? Great news!
Wait.... Did you say "FIX" the show?

Why would you put "10 to 1 on it that you'll see two or three times more retail vendors at the show next year" - "and guess what THEY WILL YOU'LL SEE"? I'm MORE confused now than ever...... Wasn't the plan to SPLIT the retail side from the haunt side? That's what the "board" pushed for.
Never mind.. I get it now.... (?)
Hey, wouldn't you have learned the first few times (or the first few years) that the retailers weren't going to sell to you? Why keep going back and asking? Let it go.
But that's beside the point.

You can find Grimley 200 haunters that don't like the retailers, great. They don't like us, great. Gang war in the alley after the show (costumes required for entry, and please bring your ID badge for re-entry). Who cares? Can you find him 200 haunt vendors that are happier with split?

"Fact is I don't even think it was haunters who harassed those vendors it was the enthusiasts and that like who really have NO BUSINESS even being in the show to begin with. That is Transworld problem for never really keeping the show a business to business show rather having this open door policy where almost anyone could get in."
I trust that the "board" is working on this at this time? I met some "enthusiasts" at the St. Louis show.... Allot of them. Troublesome lot, aren't they?? They must have made up around half of the attendance in St. Louis, no?

I guess I'm just trying to pinpoint why, exactly, this split is better, now, for the haunt vendors.... Just say it.
And who is on this "board of haunt vendors", that you mentioned, that pushed the show in this direction?


Obviously, none of this matters. If you say the shows will never be combined again, then so it be. We'll have to see how it goes, as we have no say so in the matter.

Oh, sorry to JUST quote you, Larry, but everyone else that posted seemed geared more toward a combined show.....

drfrightner
05-25-2009, 01:24 AM
We have almost 5,000 members on this forum, almost all of them use names that are some haunted thing... you never know who is saying what and who represents whom, or where they are coming from. I think almost ALL home haunters, yard haunters, enthusiasts, actors, and whoever else of the like would like to see the shows together.

But the show isn't for them the show is for people who need to do business to get from one years show to the next. I think MHC and Hauntcon and Ironstock and EHC and all the rest suit the needs of those people a lot better for many reasons. Take Ghost Ride for example he went to Hauntcon and he brought cheaper stuff and he did great. Personally I think a show should be started yes another one JUST FOR HOME HAUNTERS and ENTHUSIASTS!

Fact is there are more home haunters probably 50 to 1 over professional attractions but most of them are do it yourself type of people, but they still need stuff and I bet a show just for this area would do gangbusters.

Anyway off the subject... back on for a sec, a home haunter is someone who loves Halloween and sure you bet they want to see everyone at one time. That is why you have to ask what the persons does in the industry. If you polled haunt owners you'd get a totally different outcome than polling home haunters for example. If you polled some retail show you'd get a different answer than blah, blah, blah.

As for your other comments about 'FIX THE SHOW' there is a board yes and they are trying to help TW make the show better, fix anything that didn't go right,learn from past mistakes, help them find new buyers, new vendors, offer idea's for education or whatever. Things like show times, dates, to prices for things are discussed and HAUNT vendors actally are the ones who have the most seats and they are looking at for the haunt vendor industry.

As it should be... we never had that when it was a RETAIL show...NEVER!

Lets face facts people... in the past our industry has blasted retailers, we have blasted Transworld, we have blasted the whole thing for years... well before you didn't have any say over anything now its a HAUNT SHOW so well you have ALL THE SAY! That works better for my business as it does for all haunt vendors and buyers.

Larry

Darkangel
05-25-2009, 10:06 AM
Dude did you just IGNORE what I said... the retailers pushed TW to badge the haunters differnet. WHY DO YOU THINK THEY DID THAT... DUH!!! HELLO ANYONE HOME... LOL! SO they can see a haunt coming from a mile away so they could tell them flat out they do not sell to haunters.


Doesn't IAAPA do the same thing? Different color badges for guest, exibitor, buyer, member...I would think that is standard procedure....?

Darkangel (James)

GoryCorey
05-25-2009, 11:30 AM
Ohhh and TODD????
I am with you on that XXX SHOW !!!!!

Costumes will be alot easier for that crowd!!!!

They had that in April in Vegas - the International Lingerie & Accessories Show

Kelly Anderson
05-25-2009, 08:19 PM
Larry,

As Ive been reading the responces to my innitial question about the two shows being held together, I didnt think I would ever agree with your opinions, but you do have some very valid points. Esspecially when it comes to the retailers not wanting to sell to the haunters........They want to sell large volumes of products vs one or two to "some haunt". I can see why you would say that you dont need some retailer selling $20 batman costumes when the majority of the BIG haunts are buying these expensive and illaberate costumes anyway.

My business at the haunt show is in representaion of the haunt I participate in as well as ordering products that I sell retail. Granted, theres probably more people attending the haunt show that just does their haunt and not buying products to resell. And so given that, its much more cost effective for me to spend my money attending one show, vs two or three.

HOWEVER, even if I was only attending the show as a haunter, theres cirtain things I'm coming to those shows to see, and maybe buy. And like every other business out there, haunt or retail, they work off a budget. I may not be able or just dont want to spend thousands of dollars on costumes cause that money needs to go to props this year.........or whatever. So having a variety of products in different price ranges is very beneficial to my needs and Im sure many others as well.

The problem now is having vendors at the show(s) that will sell to eachother. If its going to end up that there is just one show, the "haunt Show", what do you know of thats being done to encourage vendors in retail to attend the haunt show? If anything.

Finally, as I said earlier in this thread, I firmly believe that to have this big and great haunt show that so many want, there obviously needs to be people there ready to spend their money, but you also need the vendors. I understand that you guys with the big for profit haunts dont need some or all of the retailers. But as far as the overall success of the show is concerned, "Dont have all your eggs in the same basket". There needs to something for everybody, regaurdless of how big or small there budget is.

Kelly Anderson
HauntYourHouse.NET

graystone
05-25-2009, 09:31 PM
As much as I want them together it is what it is and I don't think it will change. So we have got to see somehow, someway that some of the retailers we want make it to the Haunt Show. Were in this boat now and we got to make the best of it and do all we can to encourage the ones we want to attend! Shane and its I am just shooting it like it is! Shane this time

drfrightner
05-26-2009, 12:21 AM
Here is another post from me on this subject... I FOUND my LOST camera of IAAPA show pictures. Again I ask ANYONE to tell me how we have MORE in common with a retail show than an attraction show... here are photos I took at IAAPA.

See anything you could use in your "ATTRACTION" ??????? How about that spiderman wall, how about egypt stuff, lets talk to about 20 different insurance companies, no no lets talk to food vendors who can sell you stuff that will make you money, or wait a minute I'm totally off base here no I'm wrong go to the retail show and see the latest Batman costumes.

What am I thinking? LOL

Bottom line ANYONE who thinks we as attraction owners are better off with a retail show rather than an amusement show is wrong, nuts, and won't go far in this industry.

The only way to grow is to think bigger, be bigger, go bigger, learn from the top down and you WILL NOT LEARN ANYTHING at a retail show, but at IAAPA you will!!!!!!! At an attraction show strictly for HAUNTS you will!

Larry

drfrightner
05-26-2009, 12:27 AM
But wait there is more...

Yes someone asked about foilage and yes you can get that as well, theming idea's, products you need to help your business, water based fog systems, special effects, and so much more. I WILL ADMIT THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY BATMAN, BUGS BUNNY COSTUMES FOR SALE... whoops better see if IAAPA will merge with the retail show. LOL

The haunted attraction show needs to be more like THIS THAN a retail show ... but wait I did forget about the power ranger costumes you can get. Damn maybe I'm wrong we need to be more like the retail show than the IAAPA show, because every haunted house buys Peter Pan costumes.

How did I get this so wrong? LOL

Larry

drfrightner
05-26-2009, 12:31 AM
But no could there be more things we'd like to see, buy, (COPY) whoops did I say that... LOL

An amusement show for attractions is better suited for an attraction industry, but the other side thinks we need we must have we have to have more access to wigs, sexy cloths, cartoon costumes, and lets not forget IRON MAN!

Larry

drfrightner
05-26-2009, 12:37 AM
But could there be more... but there is!

More stuff that ATTRACTION OWNERS want to see...

We can be a lot like this and more like Cinderella.

Is that the insides of a high end animation? I bet any haunter would be there with bells on taking photos. Yes even a company that sells safety signs, road signs, theming companies, vac form stuff, and yes tons of haunted house vendors. If you are going to a second show and you don't make it an amusement show but instead go to some Halloween retail show you are just shooting yourself right in the back of the head. You be the judge. Hey I'm just telling you what I know but don't take my word for it.

BTW... that one company sells these cheap systems to clean your streets, your shops, they can suck up nails, beer bottles you name it but NO ATTRACTION WOULD EVER NEED THAT I don't think...

Larry

drfrightner
05-26-2009, 12:46 AM
There are so many photos of AN AMUSEMENT SHOW I JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE TO STOP finding things you would be interested in buying, things you would need, things you could learn from. Yes search light companies buy one don't rent... there was also several marketing companies that help get you into walmarts and stuff like that. I wish had more time to see the show rather than work my booth. I think I personally would be even further ahead than I am now. The bottom line is I understand why so many haunters can't attend IAAPA, so we must WORK HARD to bring more of these vendors to a haunted attraction show, not take us to a retail show. That is backwards.

See that one company that is a small company that says POLLING software so you can take surveys with a laptop. Pretty cool... bet you'll never see that at a retail show. See those yellow machines, those are so you can sell tickets without a ticket booth person... yeah seen only at an AMUSEMENT SHOW because what would a retailer want to sell tickets for?

But Grim you have me convinced I'll never attend this show ever again I'm headed to Houston to see what new retail costumes Rubies has! LOL

Grim... I'm giving you a hard time but I hope you now see my point and if you don't okay! I as an attraction owner see things different than you I suppose! For you from yoru perspective I understand its better but please understand that what you want is different than what haunted ATTRACTION owners want or need. As an attraction owner I need to see ATTRACTIONS EQUIPMENT and SERVICES not bugs

Larry

Mr Nightmarez
05-26-2009, 10:30 AM
Let's combine the Haunt Show w/ IAAPA!
:)

Problems solved...

Patti Ludwinski
05-26-2009, 01:26 PM
Not a bad thought. However, IAAPA is in November, and they're not willing to change that. Our haunt vendors would not have any time for Research & Development of new product for the next Haunt season if the show was in November. Plus, we finally have Transworld working with us to market for growing our industry as Haunt and Halloween-related Attractions!!!

mindtumor
05-26-2009, 01:35 PM
Not a bad thought. However, IAAPA is in November, and they're not willing to change that. Our haunt vendors would not have any time for Research & Development of new product for the next Haunt season if the show was in November. Plus, we finally have Transworld working with us to market for growing our industry as Haunt and Halloween-related Attractions!!!

They might not the first year but after that everything would shift, build product dec-apr, r + d may-nov. I haven't had a problem with it being in chicago and combined, being in Vegas, or being in St. Louis by itself. Am I the only one who doesn't care if it is combined or separate?

Ken Spriggs
05-26-2009, 01:43 PM
3 or 4 pages ago before you went toe to toe with Grim........You stated I should practice what I preach?

Larry? I do......if you really want to know something about me........I love to mess with you!

We all know the shows aren't going to combine.......but where I am coming from......slow down and listen.

Ron can dream and ask what he wants......lets do this in a way it hits home shall we?
(I have paid alot of money to fix my evilways Larry)

Ron......let's make him your son shall we?
Ron wishes one day for a big red ford pickup with a hummer front end.
Now we all know there is no such thing unless you make it....right?
But regardless he wants one anyways.......right?
So do you bitch slap him and tell him he is an idiot.....or do you say....wow what a cool idea son
BUT QUIT DREAMING LIKE THAT

We can all remember the days where Dream Reapers only charged $15 to see a cool haunted house.....with the lights on.
We can all remember parting till the weeeee hours at the crown
We can all remember the good times we had.........and we can hope right?

IT'S A PIPE DREAM AND IF RON WANTS TO HAVE IT>>>>HE CAN

You are right everyone is entitled to their own thoughts.....and those are mine
But remember......I am not stating my opinion or my side of the aurguement
What I will say.......is......you are speaking to a brickwall
The shows are split and they will stay that way
The houston or vegas show will fall apart as you claim and any of the vendors we dealt with will come over to us.
The IAAPA vendors you say we need......get them to come and the buyers and the vendors may be happy.....

But there is really no sense spending so much time on something no one can change.

Can we agree on that?

Oh.....Larry if it wasn't for the traffic that is generated by this website....from people like Ron or myself......you would have nothing for a website.....no advertisers.....no sponsors.....nothing
So you may not get money for him actually posting....but he is part of your statistics

So am I

Darkangel
05-26-2009, 03:13 PM
I seriously doubt IAAPA would merge with us, we're not what they are mainly targeting. Besides very few haunters go to IAAPA because its a couple weeks after Halloween and no one has the time off work or the energy to go and see it as too many vendors they can't afford to purchase from. If the Halloween section was merely eye-candy, then IAAPA is the candy factory its great seeing the rides and amusement stuff but not much to buy, at least at first glance.

If the Halloween vendors decided to exibit at the Haunt show I think that everyone would be happy, that's basically the same thing as before but now they are on our turf and catering to us instead of looking down on us....the tables would be turned in a manner of speaking...


Darkangel

drfrightner
05-26-2009, 04:12 PM
Ken,

I do not get money from anyone visiting. I don't charge for the banners, and I sell them. I have been asked by everyone and their grandma to sell them banners and I won't do it. I could put google ads on these pages and make money, and I don't do it. Its not that I don't need the money or want money but to me it seems really like ummm nickle and diming.

So now you know I do not sell banners on these forums nor do I add google ads. You get a free banner on these pages if you advertise in the magazine. I have turned down tons of offers to sell banners on these pages and have NEVER added any type of google ads.

I never will...

My company we run haunted houses and we build attractions why do I want to mess with selling banners for a few hundred dollars ... more work than its worth. If that makes any sense to you!

So no when you come here you are NOT putting money into my pocket. Lastly, you guys bought an ad for your scents I think in the last magazine you should have your banners on here FREE... send one over!

----------


As for IAAPA and the haunt show working together YES YES YES I've said that 100 times already and in a PERFECT world because really that is what Grim and Ron and myself and everyone keeps talking about IN A PERFECT WORLD it would all be together. Unfortunatly IAAPA is three weeks after Halloween after most haunters are spent, taking down shows, tieing up loose ends, used up all vacation days, or whatever.

I have ALWAYS UNDERSTOOD why most haunters don't go or can't go I get it... doesn't mean you should but I do understand.

IAAPA and the Haunt industry can never combine because vendors are still shipping orders in October how can they turn new product around in time for November show. IMPOSSIBLE!

This would hurt our industry more than help it...

Just my two cents... that is WHY WE need to bring those IAAPA vendors to Transworld. GO TO IAAPA TELL THOSE VENDORS TO COME TO TRANSWORLD LIKE I DID AT IAAPA 2008.

They will come go to IAAPA and tell them!

Larry

graystone
05-26-2009, 05:54 PM
Ken pass the salt. Larry can I please have some more gravey? Ron pass the rolls please. LMAO! Shane and its anyone for more taters! Shane this time!

mindtumor
05-26-2009, 07:47 PM
Man, I don't even want to hear about banners right now. Free or otherwise.

Kevin Dells
05-26-2009, 07:55 PM
Man is there even anything left of this dead horse were beating or is it just a bloodstain now?

"Oh look over there in the corner it's a hoof lets kick it around for awhile!"

TW's gone,dead, stick a fork in it already!

xxxdirk
05-26-2009, 09:09 PM
Gone with the hogshead cask and demijohn, gone with the sugar barrel, pickel barrel, milk pan, gone with the tub and the pail and the fierce....

LOL, what nerd can tell me where thats from....

Nightgore
05-26-2009, 09:14 PM
"Rock Island" from the Music Man!!!! -Tyler

drfrightner
05-26-2009, 09:22 PM
I thought it was beat like a dead horse before the show ever happened... I just talk to another guy today who said its much better as it is now!

My only point is MOVE ON... lets make the haunt only show better by adding a few retail vendors that maybe have something to sell us but more important add way more AMUSEMENT VENDORS!

GO TO IAAPA spread the word!

Larry

Nightgore
05-26-2009, 09:26 PM
We'll be at IAAPA... SO EXCITED!!!! -Tyler

Grimley
05-26-2009, 11:36 PM
For the record I never said anything against IAAPA. I think it is a great show.

drfrightner
05-27-2009, 01:37 AM
Just for the record I said and still say we have more in common with an amusement show not a retail show. You want to combine with a retail show and I an amusement show.

What is best for our industry, retail or amusement? AMUSEMENT!

Glad to know you like IAAPA. Good show.

Larry

SpookywoodsFX.com
05-27-2009, 03:30 AM
IAAPA wasn't great for us. I don't think anyone there was there to purchase Halloween goods (it was just a few weeks after Halloween). I'm sure it was pleasant to a handful to see the haunt vendors that WERE there. Allot of the people (buyers?) treated us as second class. We had to be in the "first time vendor" isle. It was like being put in 'time out'. If it was marketed properly for haunt vendors, I think it would be one hell of a show. I agree that it would be much better than combining shows, as it were, with Transworld. I will tell you this, I wont give my money to Transworld next year. MHC will get it (maybe even Hauntcon), not Transworld. This show cant even decide on where it wants to be or WHEN. And I sure wouldn't try to talk any of the vendors from IAAPA in to going to Transworld.
No one wants to say whose decision it was to split the show, I don't think anyone knows, who cares. Larry says it's because the retailers didn't like us (?). That's enough to split? I don't think so.... I DO know that it obviously couldn't hold itself together. Now the haunt side has split from the retail side. Larry, you want to invite retailers to the haunt side? That makes sense? You want the show as it was but under different regulations? You lost me... You push this show as if you owned it or have some serious stake in it. Ticket sales to your haunt? Popularity, maybe? Probably.
Fact is, Transworld is NOT the show it was, that is absolutely unquestionable. And no, the haunt show did not bring all the buyers with it. Now its a haunt show, mmmkay.

drfrightner
05-27-2009, 01:03 PM
IAAPA is NOT an order writting show. The other problem with IAAPA is that the right people don't come meaning the people who buy things on the small scale for say Halloween. There are people who write a lot of orders at IAAPA, but generally you get leads and set up sales for down the road. IAAPA is also a place to do business and or finalize business.

The point is for a haunt owner they should go because they can find lots of things they need or can use to advance their business. The other point is we need to get some of those vendors to vend at Transworld.

As for you not doing well at either show (IAAPA or TW) simply put you didn't have new product and its understandable you were out of commission for what 3 or 4 months. But you did VERY well the first year, but more or less everyone who wanted those costumes bought them in year one. Year two, year three or whatever you have to create new stuff otherwise you will not do well.

I hope you stick with it, you should ask people what they want and work on new products not that you are back on your feat. Don't wait for next years shows do it now and use the site, magazines, mailings or whatever to promote new product.

Work day and night if you have because its not even close to being too late.

Either way vendors can't blame the show on how good they did or didn't do... not saying you are doing that but I've seen that before. Bottom line is you have to bring stuff people want ad if they want it they buy it, if they don't they don't. Price also matters if its overpriced people won't buy. The vendors who didn't do well need to come back stronger next year, talk to people on the ground see what they WANT!

That is the thing that amazes me because most vendors just DO rather to ask people the people who would buy it... WOULD YOU WANT THIS, DO YOU NEED THIS, WHAT DO YOU WANT, WHAT DO YOU NEED???

I've been accussed of helping Unit 70 or other vendors... hey I simply told them what I wanted, what I needed, they did it and its not my fault everyone liked it and bought them by the dozen. I'm always available ask me I'll tell you, ask your customers. Specifically ask the customers who didn't buy from you...WHY?

Larry

Ken Spriggs
05-27-2009, 02:50 PM
Come on Larry....you sell something on this site.....I know I have paid money for something.
BANNERS???? YOU HAVE HAD MY ARTWORK FOR YEARS I USED TO SEE SINISTER SCENT BANNERS.....now can I see one of my banners again since they are free?
My company advertises in your magazine and not just the last issue.

The arguement is about bringing shows together........WHY?????
Just get more vendors to the show we have....plain and simple.

Each one of the shows offers something different now.....most have cross over vendors.
I would almost bet money on vendors getting together and deciding themselves what show is going to survive. Then we can blame no one but ourselves if it fails!

No other shows really fit with haunt related shows.....yes some have a cross over vendors and buyers or fans but none are an exact fit.

SpookywoodsFX.com
05-27-2009, 02:53 PM
I didn't expect to blaze a trail at TW but I WAS hoping to see some of our 'bigger name' past buyers. However, they did not show. I'm working on some new things, I'll post pictures soon.
Problem with asking haunters what they want is everyone wants a little something different (for the most part), and at different price points.... Yeah?
My open heart surgery was a pain, that's for sure... I hate to blame anything on that but, damn, that slowed me down.......
IAAPA was 'OK'. Didn't expect to sell ANYTHING but we did :o You're absolutely right, more haunters SHOULD go. LOTS of goodies to utilize in/at a haunt. As haunt vendors, we were not well received. Maybe in the future, we'll have to wait and see..
Now, why try to get those IAAPA vendors to TW? Wouldn't it be easier the other way around?

drfrightner
05-27-2009, 04:46 PM
Who did you see one year but didn't see the following. I thought pretty much everyone showed up and lots of new people to boot! Who did you want to see that didn't show? It couldn't have been that many. I would say like I say everyyear... they should have marketed more to amusement parks, more to year around attractions, blah, blah. But other than that there was over 5,000 people who walked through the door.

They might have been there you just didn't see them because there just wasn't enough HOURS on the show floor, which is why Thursday is being added giving buyers and vendors an additional EIGHT hours of show time, face time!

Larry

xxxdirk
05-27-2009, 05:02 PM
LOL< Tyler, you da man... Now the question is who is the bigger nerd. Me for posting it, or you for answering.... Actually MM is one of my favorite musicals.

Back to my "defending" myself. Ok, maybe I am beating a dead horse, but the original question was posed and I answered. What I would like to see happen is a combo show in Chicago. Furthermore, I am gonna pull my own "Rondinidamus" and predict that in 2011 or 2012 we will be back in Chicago with a combo show. Do shoot the messenger. "So let it be written, so let it be done!"

MMManiac
05-27-2009, 05:09 PM
Amen Ron, Amen.... I do have a question for ya though... I heard rumors you sleep next to my autopsy body prop in bed at night.. I hope it doesn't come back with more then fake blood on it! :) j/k

xxxdirk
05-27-2009, 05:52 PM
Hey Bob makes a great cuddle pillow.... Ill wash em off with the power hose if you want....

Ken Spriggs
05-28-2009, 09:33 AM
Larry?

But other than that there was over 5,000 people who walked through the door.


My honest opinion on these 5000 people who walked through the doors?
They represented about 100-200 haunted houses.......maybe

I saw groups of 15-20 people walking the streets all in the same shirts.
So are they legit buyers?

michaeldavy
05-28-2009, 04:24 PM
Thers was a place for TW.
Halloween USED to be a time when that little costume shop around the corner would come up with some really unique stuff.
Stuff you couldn't get anywhere else.
There used to be a time when Dick Smith was the only one who knew how to make foam latex (not really but go with me on this).
It use to be that haunters had to buy retail to get stuff. Then TW came along and there was a PLACE to get it.
Haunters began coming to a show that was set up to cater to retail buyers. My point is that IF TW REALLY WANTED TO KEEP IT A RETAIL SHOW THEY WOULD REQUIRE A RESALE TAX NUMBER AND BUSINESS LICENCE TO GET IN.
The thing is that TW really doesn't care who comes. They will take your money to get in even though the retailers complain and deny haunters sales.
Me? I don't care I cater to anyone but TW just cares about one thing MONEY - in their pocket. I saw that plain as day in Vegas.

Isn't it kinda fraudulent or misrepresentative to take your money to get in and then you cant buy whats in there? It's not even bait and switch, it's bait and NOTHING.

drfrightner
05-28-2009, 05:43 PM
Ken,

I agree and disagree. Yes I agree it was actually about 6,000 who walked through the door over the three days. Yes many were the same people but still that is a lot of people. I think there was over 3,000 in the building on Saturday alone. So yeah I agree.

As for how many haunts where in the house a lot more than 100 or 200. There was a good 1000 plus unique buyers there I'm sure. I would say realistically there was 3500 different people who went to the show, and on average 3 1/2 tag alongs per person which puts you at something close to 1000.

Larry

Patti Ludwinski
05-28-2009, 07:46 PM
Ken,

Larry is correct. The online, rotating banner ads that you see are all provided free of charge to print advertisers. For a print advertiser to take advantage of this free online component, they must submit a banner ad graphic. We do not keep vendor banner ads on file. Every advertiser who fails to send their online ad along with their print ad gets a reminder email FROM ME requesting once more their banner ad graphic. What's your email address? I can forward to you the email reminder sent to your company. Your print ad was submitted on Friday 2/20/09 without an online Banner Ad, so my email reminder requesting your Banner Ad was sent on Tues 2/24/09.

Patti

Ken Spriggs
05-30-2009, 09:42 AM
So PATTI......The little bald guy hasn't done his job?
I mean our little bald guy, the one you guys deal with on everything?

OK I guess I will follow up with him.....You should have it by Monday I would think