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CacklestheClown
06-19-2009, 06:55 PM
I am quitting my job at Nightmare's Haunted House! Why? Because I have just come back from a week at Church Camp, and I felt God telling me to give up my addiction to all things dark and scary, including my job. I don't want to do this, in fact, if there was any possible way I could not do this, I would. But, in the end, I have to do what God says. But that doesn't mean that I'm done scaring! I fell as if God wants me to keep using this talent, for his own use. I am looking into the judgement houses, revelation houses, and all other manors of christian haunted houses. I have even convinced my youth leader to try and convince the other church leaders to turn our own church into one this Halloween! I. Am. Stoked!!!

Smiley
06-19-2009, 08:41 PM
Um, Cackles? What assortment of scenes are you planning to show within this church haunt?

CacklestheClown
06-19-2009, 08:47 PM
Actually, it's not up to me. It's up to the pastors. But the theme of it will be that you are dead, sent to Heaven, rejected, and sent to Hell. It will probably mostly consist of people in demon costumes. The entire set will, most likely, be Hell, except for the beginning, which will be Heaven. The point is to show people how terrible Hell is, and convince them to accept Jesus into their hearts, therebye insuring that they will never have to go through that for real. If you ask me, I don't think it should be something they'll enjoy, or they'll get the wrong idea. It needs to scare the crap out of them so that they'll do what I mentioned earlier!

Smiley
06-19-2009, 09:27 PM
I dunno, Cackles. Hell Houses are quite controversial. The use of fear to try and persuade people to follow a belief, it...I think it's just wrong. I know intentions are good; you want to help people. But that sort of thing should be done with compassion, not threats of Hell. And saying things like...


It needs to scare the crap out of them so that they'll do what I mentioned earlier!

...doesn't reflect the Christian community in a positive light. I hate use the phrase "a form of intimidation", but that's what it comes off as. Yeah...like I said, controversial. I may not be Christian, but I do have Christian friends that share the same views on the subject as I do. They say that God should be about love, not fear. Which I wholeheartedly agree.

Dr. Giggles
06-19-2009, 11:00 PM
I agree with Smiley.
I honestly can't say much else at risk of offending someone or another. So ima stay out of this one, best of luck to ya cackles.

BarbieHaunt
06-19-2009, 11:17 PM
I felt God telling me to give up my addiction to all things dark and scary, including my job.

I'm honestly trying to understand, but you're saying that God told you to give up your "addiction to all things dark and scary" and yet somehow it's OK to keep that addiction if it stays within the church to "convert others" or "help them see their evil ways so that they will stay on the right path."

Those last two quotes are my take on what you are saying, but I'm honestly trying to make sense of this. Is that what you are saying?

If you are participating in a depiction of Hell with demons that "scares the crap out of" people, isn't that perpetuating your "addiction to all things dark and scary"? I believe in God and go to church, so my post is not about that. It's about trying to help you see the contradiction you are presenting.

I wish you only the best.

Allen H
06-20-2009, 02:41 AM
Wow,
Im surprised your missing the ministry you were already giving at Nightmares. Why you do what you do at the haunted house is up to you. The haunt owners only care that you do your job. Some actors do it for the thrill of scaring, others for the power rush that comes from controlling others, I have several actors who do it as a kind of ministry. Every time they jump out and someone yells "Jesus Christ" or "Oh my God" it is a prayer for god to save them, then the monster retreats and that actor feels he has reaffirmed their faith in god as if the prayer was a protection. We all inspire prayer in our haunts.
A very good friend of mine enjoyed making heros, thats why he was a haunt actor. His biggest thrills came when he threatened a young one or a girlfriend and the parent or Boyfriend pulled them from the clutches of a monster to safety, he was making heros!
This is my opinion but I think Hell/salvation houses are the worst of both churches and haunted houses, they give each a bad name and are not a great example of either a Church or a haunt.
I would highly recommend sticking with nightmares for one more season and try to find your ministry in it. Look at your work with new eyes as opposed to looking for new work.
Churches and haunted houses are strange bedfellows but they can coexist with out ramming either down someones throat or by dressing up one like the other,
Just my thoughts,
Allen H
Feel free to PM me if you (or anyone ) wants to discuss this further.

BruiseMuse
06-20-2009, 11:22 AM
If you've ever seen the documentary "Hell House," it shows how one ministry creates an annual hell house. It amazed me the controversial things that they put into that haunt, that most "normal" haunts wouldn't even touch.

CacklestheClown
06-20-2009, 11:48 AM
Okay, I'm not saying anyone here is right or wrong, but this is my view: we should get people to accept Christ any way we possibly can. I believe fear of Hell is one of God's strongest tools for getting them to do just that. I understand what you're all saying, but that is what I think.

Anyway, I think God told me to go to Nightmares for one year for a very specific reason. There were two teenagers working there (whose names I will withold) who needed to go to church very badly. I befriended them, and they started coming to church with me. Mission accomplished.

Another reason that I feel called to quit is because it was taking over my entire life. As I have said in other threads, all I ever want to do is look up costumes, then look up even better costumes, think of how I can come up with the money to buy said costumes, practice my act, come up with new lines, and watch the video footage from last year. I even convinced my two closest friends to join the team this year! It felt like it was coming between me and my relationship with God. If there is any better reason to quit than that, I can't think of it!

My addiction was also spreading to other things as well. I was listening to darker and darker music, (ie MeatLoaf, Midnight Syndicate, Nox Arcana) watching darker movies, and reading darker books. One day, when I was listening to Meatloaf's song "Seize the Night", I became disturbed by how into the song I was getting. I actually [I]wanted[I] to succum (is that spelled right?) to the darkness. That is most definately somewhere I didn't want to go.

I appreciate all your feedback, but I have made my decision.

Greg Chrise
06-20-2009, 01:28 PM
Midnight Syndicate and Nox Arcana are fine but, if you have been listening to Meatloaf for some kind of spiritual inspiration, you are pretty much tainted and will not be going to heaven no matter how many brownie points you stack up the rest of your life.

What are you going to replace this music in your life with? Christian Rock that reminds you there was a guy on a cross 2,000 years ago, as a reminder 45 times in each song, 100 similar songs per day for a total reinforcement of 4500 reminders per day? Every day? Other musicians telling you what they think you need to know? Only about 2 total concepts you need to know to have a balanced life? That's Great.

Any haunted house even seasonally is a reminder of mortality, people's wondering about their own personal feelings of mortality or an after life. One is subtle and presented in humor and fantasy and is engaged as entertainment. The other showing drug abuse, car wrecks, abortion and such for a sermon and donation are a little brash. And it has that quality of someone else demanding you do things their way.

There is nothing wrong with halloween style haunts or horror movies. Just the fact that it is impossible to make it completely a real situation makes it entertainment. Most of the purveyors of these kinds of attractions are channels for a whole lot of good. Just the social aspect of bringing all kinds of people together as a community, as a whole is better than seperating the masses into 5 or more different religious beliefs that aren't supposed to comingle.

Even pagans worry about how they will be remembered. Did they die having helped a bunch of people or because they were stealing copper wire that happened to be hooked up to electricity? Everything is about doing the right thing. It doesn't have to be some evil mantra or some heavenly witness over and over. You can mix a lot of things and achieve lots of goals, help lots of people just by giving them a place to come together and escape the reality or failures of every day. Perhaps even this forum is God's work? God made Larry pay the bandwidth bill!

Don't take one addiction and replace it with another. That's just being a simple minded dumb ass. It's a really big planet with lots of people and lots of things to know. Everything is more complicated and more wonderous that there being only 2 ways to be. Try going out doors to see all the things growing and living. Don't just be either inside a black plywood habitrail or inside stained glassed windows only.

Take a boating course, get a bicycle, draw something, learn other languages, learn to cook, learn to make money, learn to spend money. The only way to let the demons placed in you head by Meatloaf since he is such a poweful entity (listed with other one hit wonders) is certainly drilling a hole in you skull to let the demons out. What will you use to plug the hole after? A big screw? 5minute epoxy? A crystal gemstone from Arkansas?

Sounds to me like you just haven't had any laughs lately, perhaps you could read the "Inflatable Turd Post" here on Hauntworld. Lots of people have pictures of Jesus on their walls, the roman era romantic artistic version of Jesus and no picture of Meatloaf because he is not really that good looking and usually sweaty. You are simply confused by mass marketing campaigns. Look into all the unadvertised experiences of the world so when you die you can say you did something. Hopefully it was abundant, good and helped lots of others.

That big game show at the pearly gates should take a while not just heaven or hell. That makes you as well rounded as Homer Simpson.

graystone
06-20-2009, 02:13 PM
First its already been stated that many here in the haunt industry are Christians. Second you got to understand that most haunts use scares in a" fantasy" world not the" real world". I attended a Haunt this past year, I want call the name but it was in Tennessee and 10 minutes into the haunt I realized they had an anti Christian agenda. I asked to be shown the nearest exit for myself and crew. I/WE WILL NEVER GO TO IT AGAIN!

God has given us all talents here to use to entertain people. If we do it in a non satanic way I dont feel that he will see anything wrong with it other than you having a good time as something you enjoy. It beats going out and drinking it up. doing drugs, things that I am sure God does not approve of.

Its harmless entertainment for the most part. I can say we get many church groups who attend Graystone Manor. When I first started years ago I actually asked some church preachers to go through my attraction to see if they seen anything that would be considered offensive. I asked them to keep in mind were portraying a "fantasy world" and not a "real case scenarios"

Do whatever makes you happy but personally Haunted Houses and Hell Houses are pretty much alike other than the fact that Haunted Houses repersent "fantasy" and Hell Houses repersent whats to come of future non Christians or those who do not abide by the word of God. Also keep in mind that some religions may find Hell Houses if more offensive than Haunts if they feel your portrayal of Hell is inadequate.

Either way good luck in whatever you so choose and the path you may take! Shane and its Shane THANKS GOD EVERYDAY FOR WHAT HE HAS GIVEN HIM! Shane this time!

Allen H
06-20-2009, 03:14 PM
Greg and Shane,
Great posts! This is a great topic and I love to see all the posts. Cackles do what feel right to you....unless it involves killing infidels or something. Do not take this the wrong way but your posts are making you sound really young. You have all of the enthusiasm and self doubt associated with youth. That is fine, younger people seem to speak more in permanent terms and do not see the world with as wide of a view as more experienced people. Your life and time is your to do with as you please obsessing over anything is not good.
I really hate the statement you made about "making people accept Jesus any way you can" That is not the way to go deceit and terrorism (the definition is getting someone to do what you want by scaring them) arent (in my mind) good christian approaches. I do not want to MAKE anyone accept god, I want them to choose to love god.
Copy and paste this thread Cackles, open and read it again in ten years, see how your views have changed, then ten years after that.
I wish you the best in whatever you choose and I hope that you make the right choices for yourself.
Allen H

freak 'n' stein
06-21-2009, 01:50 AM
Either think on it more or reconsider your reasoning...

I agree with aforementioned posts in that if you listen to certain music and it MAKES you feel a certain way, it is too late. Music can't MAKE you feel anything. It can be SUGGESTIVE, but it can not do any more to you or for you than what you say your new found beliefs are doing.

secondly, as I disagree with your tactics, I can agree with religious haunts IF and ONLY IF they are done with taste and in a manner that gives you the OPTION...

example --> Two years ago, in the little town of Rock Hill, SC:
I visited, along with my church group, a yearly church event named "HELLoween". Before going to the event, all of our group had preconceived notions and all these ideas that turned out to be false. People were saying we were gonna see live abortions and satin would breath in your ear and all this fiendish stuff. In fact, when we arrived, it wasn't NEARLY as bad. It was done in complete taste and it provided 100% show quality scenes using fog, blacklights, and other haunted attraction quality props and costumes. While they did show us scenes of teen partying, and a little girl who delved in witch craft, we eventually got into a "Hellovator" and descended into "Hell". It was hot and loud and they had all the people from previous scenes thrown into a fogging "pit" of hell by SATAN himself. When I say everything was done well, I mean I felt like I was at disney world. After hell, we went to heaven where they showed the same people being saved and after the show the pastor of the church gave everyone the OPTION to step into a room off to the side and be saved IF and ONLY IF they felt the need.

That is the approach that I believe any other church attempting to do a "scare house" should take.

phreakout
06-21-2009, 02:48 AM
I have seen some footage of some hell houses, and some are absolutly perfect, while otheres I felt are too "hardcore". granted I am open minded about certain topics, so some christians may not agree with me.

One of the best ones ive seen included a drunk driving scene, where a real car from an actual crash is used to portay teens drinking and driving. there was also some scenes on drug usage, as well as stealing and things.

I have seen others that go too far with their word, and downright pissed me off beyond no extent.

Cackles, that is awesome that you found guidance and a faith to keep you strong. its sometimes hard for me to understand god, but soon after I am able to solve problems with my faith. I hope you do well and that you follow your heart :D

xtremecreator
06-21-2009, 11:51 AM
Did I read this right? Your giving up the haunt business to bring an evil haunted house to a church? Does not sound Christian to me. Theres no place for a haunted house were people are "currently" worshiping. Its my 2 cents. I would never go to it. I think you better speak with God again................


John

lurker
06-21-2009, 12:52 PM
Iím a pretty open-minded person. I believe firmly in Ďto each to their owní. There is room for all points of view and beliefs. And, I usually would shrug off a post like this, but you are painting my business as something evil, so I feel I have to speak my mind.
Iím not 100% sure, but I think that anyone or group that uses fear to sale a political, ideological, or religious point of view is clinically referred to as a WACKADOODLE. I believe that is from the latin ďWackus DoodlisĒ meaning those who have whacked their doodle once too often.
If you donít have the facts, deeds, and tenants to sway people over to your way of thinking then maybe..just maybe you might be wrong. Fear is a primitive emotion. It breeds and feeds irrational thought and irrational reactions. Do you really want people believing in god based on irrational thought? I do not believe Jesus would want followers brought unto him under fear. Dictators, despots, and the fear ridden themselves are the ones that use fear to convert. Not a group that I believe Christ would want to count himself a member of
I use fear, like all of us do, in our haunted attractions. Fear is a basic, sometimes very beneficial part of the human make-up. Itís fun to take it out of the old emotional closet and run it around the block a little. Fear helps spark the imagination sometimes and is a great way to blow off steam when followed by laughter. However, when the haunted house closes down and the customers go home the fear valve is turned off, and the only thing the people carry with them is the fun and laughter. When fear is used to sale a series of beliefs, that fear valve is not turned off until the victim summits to the ideology being pushed, and sometimes the fear valve is never turned off again for these people. I believe that is psychological torture.
So, Cackles, from one haunter to a former haunter do me a favor. If you feel the need to psychologically torture people to bring them to god, then please donít rape our harmless amusement profession to do so. Just get out of the haunting business all together.

How about just water boarding the suckers until they believe in Jesus? Hey...wait a tick...maybe that is where baptism got it's start. So, maybe we should start referring to John the Baptist as John the Water Boarder? I think I'm on to something here. I need to call Dan Brown and Ron Howard. I'm gonna be rich!:rolleyes:

CacklestheClown
06-21-2009, 06:34 PM
Maybe I worded that wrongly. I am not calling anyone here evil. Haunting is a great and fun thing to do, as long as you don't do what I did and let it take over your entire life. Another thing I might have worded wrongly: I do not intend to force people to accept Christ by scaring their pants off, I only want to show them how horrible Hell is, and invoke a desire not to go there themselves for real.

And I have no desire to open a Hellhouse. I want to open a Judgement House. here is a difference. This will explain it: https://judgementhouse.org/How-is-Judgement-House-Different-_8_pg.html

Thank you for your advice, but I think I'm going to go ahead and do it. It feels like that is where God is pulling me. Like I said, I believe that we should use any means to get people to accept Christ as we can, as long as it is morally ethical. This might not be to many people, and I completely understand that. But I have my own beliefs, so please don't criticize me for them.

EngineerofFear
06-25-2009, 12:10 PM
Hellhouse and JudgmentHouses are one in the same.

That's like me saying, "I'm not working at a haunted house, I'm working at a Spook House!"

The ultimate goal of a Judgmenthouse and Hellhouse is one in the same, to convert people to Christianity through use of horrific imagery and scenarios that are very real and often have nothing to do with someone's belief in a god or otherwise.

You're probably going to attack homosexuality too. You will have scenes depicting gay men and women going to hell for no reason other than the fact that they are gay.

I have homosexual actors in my haunt, they are some of my best, are they going to be going to hell?

You're probably going to dress up like a goth kid and represent a Satan worshiper too. You'll being saying almost outright that dressing in black and liking certain music will send you to hell.

You may not have meant it, but you saying that you are quitting haunt work to pursue fundamentalist fundraisers, "because god told you to" is a big slap in the face to every christian on this forum and anyone religious on here for that matter.

Being involved in the haunt industry is a way of life for most of the people on here. Are you going to tell the guys from Unit 70, and Scare Factory that they are not acting godly because they think about the haunt industry too much?

Whoever called your interest in the haunting industry an "addiction" is probably a close mind individual that has no idea why it is you do what you do.

Looking up costumes only shows you have a passion for costumes and costuming, you should pursue it. Any actor or athlete that takes their work seriously reviews video from previous years to better their skill. Nothing you were doing was atypical of someone that loves what they do and wants to improve. Hollywood effects artists look up crime scene photos and horrific images to soak in the detail and try to recreate it in their work, does that make them evil?

I think you have a very poor choice of words when addressing the community at this forum. You need to go join Judgment World forums now and refrain from aligning yourself with this one.

I'll leave you with this piece of legitimate advice, look up the top haunts in the nation and read about their owners and operators. Tell us if you think their "addiction" paid off.

BarbieHaunt
06-28-2009, 03:55 AM
I agree with Allen and anyone else who mentioned that Cackles is young. I also think he is being influenced by those closest to him. In his first post, he says that he just got back from Church Camp and mentions talking to his Youth Leader. I think that reveals a lot about his age. He's likely reaching out for something he wasn't getting from this haunt community and home. I apologize in advance if I'm wrong, but in my experience, that is usually why young people turn to these groups.

Cackles, if you come back, please at least be aware that there's a poll currently taking place here about who's a Christian and who's not:

http://www.hauntworld.com/haunted_house_forums/showthread.php?t=6095

As you can see, about 75% of those who have responded indicate that they are Christians while the other approximately 25% indicate they are not. That means that if the poll is a good representation of the members here (over 100 members have responded), about 3 out of every group of 4 people here are Christians. I just thought you should know, and I truly wish you only the best!

Jim Warfield
08-19-2009, 08:24 PM
2,000 or even 200 years ago many Christians worried about having any "Pagan Images" around them.(To be worshipped) Now we have SO MANY images around us on TV. Movies, computer screens, billboards of things we all "worship", new cars, foxy women (who we will never even get to say "Hi!" to, unless we dial 900-something)
Does any preacher live like Jesus? Houses, phones, cars, a positive bank balance , these things are just So Nice (and so tempting! And necesarry to blend in with everyone else.)
Add "Brain-Candy" booze and chemicals that should never be in our bloodstreams and worshiping of the pagan, immeadiate gratification gods runs wild.
So if you obsessed awhile about Halloween costumes...it was such a minor vice, if a vice at all?
When I was about to buy my house a local preacher called me and said he needed to talk with me.
He wanted to warn me against using the evil imagery of the human skull!
"The skull means "Death", "Poison", Satan, Evil....."
I said I thought God made our skulls, it sure helps hold up our faces and keeps us out of the jellyfish family.
Following this logic further, I guess nobody should have studied human anatomy?
Should we all become Christian Scientists and avoid Doctors? (Except for broken bones, I was told, that's OK)
THE absolutely BEST, number one way to influence another person...is by your own excellant positive example.

When my Cousin was a Policeman in Alabama a burglar was arrested and placed in a cell.
Not long afterward a street beggar was put in the adjoining cell.
The burglar informed all within hearing that he was "satan", then began quoting scripture .
About this time the beggar let it be known that he was Jesus, and also began quoting scripture.
My Cousin said it was very interesting and it was quite the debate!
Both sides were effectively silenced by the knock-out dart gun because the other jailer got tired of hearing them ramble on.
My Cousin could have enjoyed listening longer, she said.
Are you the oldest child in your family? Often the first-born has all the rules dumped on them in simple terms of "Black" & "White", "Right" or "Wrong" with no mention of the shaded areas or what to do with them. If only life was so simple.

xxxdirk
08-19-2009, 11:08 PM
I respect that you are feeling as strongly as you do. However, I often wonder how many people attend a haunt like this and are converted vrs turned off by having religion crammed down their throats. I think a "hellhaunt" could be a great way of converting people, but it would have to be done VERY VERY VERY well to avoid coming across as lame and annoying more than it converts. Instead of creating a haunt like that, how about continuing to work in the haunt industry and having a good, CHRISTIAN attitude around those you meet and work with and maybe you can continue to gather in a few sheep as you go. To me, you try to force feed 100 people your ideas and they are turned off. If you take the soft sell, maybe they will start to think "man that guy is cool, I want to be around him more...."

The Doctor
08-20-2009, 08:48 AM
Faith in anything is a completely personal matter, it is a belief in something when there is no evidence to support it. It is walking when the path can not be seen. The very essence of faith is so intimate that when we quantify it we attach to it our own constructs on what it means to have faith. I have my own beliefs, they are my faith, they can never be yours, they are mine and mine alone, I own them. To have true faith one must own it, it can not be your fathers or mothers faith, that of your chosen religion or that of a pastor or close friend, it must be yours. Sure many things influence our faith but in the end, faith must be owned by you. This is why it is so hard to discuss religion with anyone because any derogatory word, real or perceived feels like a slight against you personally. For this reason I try not to tell someone what is and what isn't right for them on a public board and I leave my own questions of faith and religion to be discussed with my close friends and pastors.

mr-scary
09-25-2009, 04:36 PM
Having attended the first hell house in denver many years ago and never returning I have a question.


How do you think it will convert people?

I see a whole other side of this issue. you are only going to get 1 group, the people that already argee with your stance and are going in support of therefore do not need converting.

Anyone who in your eyes needs to be converted or convinced to convert most likely wouldn't attend anyway because they do not want to feel the pressure that accompanies going. I myself went just to see what the big fuss was about since I am a haunter and it got such outcry from both sides. To me the rooms were done in a rather artful manner and I had no problems with them at all. My problem came at the end where you were all forced to pray and ask for forgiveness etc. to me that crossed the line and turned me off...not on to converting therefore never have gone back.

I have plenty of family and friends who I can talk to and get their stance on why they believe what they do and would be convinced to convert based off what they say not by spending $15 to go to a hellhouse.

I wish you luck in your endeavor!