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View Full Version : books and GUNS!!!



hauntedghost
06-26-2009, 11:45 PM
well hello to all!!!

a little about me, i have been in the haunt industry for about 9 years as a actor. now i have been feeling it's time to move on. SO that way i can start my own.

any ways..

i am here to ask you, what book is better..

"The Complete Haunted House Book"

by Tim Harkleroad

OR..

Make Your House Everything You've Ever Haunted!

by Tim Harkleroad

i would like to know about this and see if i am making the right move here. I know that money can talk. Book 3 is about $30 and his first book you could hopefully find at maybe $150-250. so i know what i mite be buying but what's better...

now for the guns part..
i have seen some blank guns for sale and just asking if any one has uesd them in there haunt or you seen them in action before.. or in all just stay away from them. Were you shoot the guns with blanks at the zombies or something like that. I don't know if it will be a bad or a good idea for that. Not only that but the cost for one and the bullets too. for one blank gun that i want will be around $200 and a box of 50 blank bullets will cost me $30.

i am really look in to this for my haunt. My haunt will not be opening for another 1-2 years. I thank you for reading this and i hope you have a good day.

HG

Allen H
06-27-2009, 12:19 AM
I would not recommend using a blank gun or any gun in your show, you will recieve many opinions here, but the fact that you felt the need to ask should tell you its a bad idea.
Allen H

hauntedghost
06-27-2009, 12:29 AM
so why do you think it's a bad idea?? for me in my eyes..

one... yes it can be bad
it will be to loud and some one mite get hurt too.

but..

i see it beening cool because your customers will feel like there in a real horror zombie movie or something like that.

MarkSchaefer
06-27-2009, 07:24 AM
We have only ever used shotgun. I believe the cost for shells have gone up a
lot this year. We were paying $13 for box of 25. There are lower cost shells on market but the problem is most shotgun shells throw out a plastic or paper
wad that could harm someone. Winchester popper shells lack this wad. Still, there is danger of the burning powder that shots out for few feet. Another thing to consider is distance between groups of people as the blast will give its shelf a way prior to next group of customers reaching the scene. An be sure to wear
hearing protection.

You might want to look into a 22 cal training pistols from $19.00 to $100.00. One 22 Shorts blanks shells are discribed as loud for $12.75 per 100. Make sure they
don't shoot out any wad discribed above.

Twin Locusts
06-27-2009, 08:19 AM
We have only ever used shotgun. I believe the cost for shells have gone up a
lot this year. We were paying $13 for box of 25. There are lower cost shells on market but the problem is most shotgun shells throw out a plastic or paper
wad that could harm someone. Winchester popper shells lack this wad. Still, there is danger of the burning powder that shots out for few feet. Another thing to consider is distance between groups of people as the blast will give its shelf a way prior to next group of customers reaching the scene. An be sure to wear
hearing protection.

You might want to look into a 22 cal training pistols from $19.00 to $100.00. One 22 Shorts blanks shells are discribed as loud for $12.75 per 100. Make sure they
don't shoot out any wad discribed above.


Good info here.

A little more info, I'm sure Mark already knows this, but just to explain the wad projectile. In a normal cartridge, the bullet seated into the casing provides pressure for the powder charge to explode against.

In a squib or blank, there still has to be some way to pressurize the powder. Even if they only used wax or paper, there will still be a dangerous projectile for several feet down range from the fire.

I have considerable and lifelong experience with firearms and can tell you that using any type of firearm for entertainment poses more risks than it's worth. You would need a gun wrangler soley responsible for that firearm, you would also have to inform your insurer and you'd get baked on the premium, don't tell them, have an accident and lose everything you ever thought about having, because you'll default on your ins. contract.

I would advise against it.

shawnc
06-27-2009, 09:15 AM
I think there have been a couple of actors killed by guns loaded with blanks.

MidnightEvil
06-27-2009, 10:04 AM
Get Tim's Book
"Make Your House Everything You've Ever Haunted!"
It's new and up to date. Full of good info.

Guns BAD BAD BAD idea
(KID you could shoot your I out)

Allen H
06-27-2009, 11:34 AM
"so why do you think it's a bad idea?? for me in my eyes.."
Um ...its a gun, its made to kill things/people. I do not think you need it to scare people. there are a million reasons why its a bad idea, the only reason it is a good idea is because it is scary. There are a million other ways to scare people, so there is no need to do one that is risky.
A trained bear charging the group would scare the heck out of them, but there is a risk so do not do it.
Again, just my thoughts
Allen H

HauntedMemphis
06-27-2009, 09:38 PM
I think there have been a couple of actors killed by guns loaded with blanks.

This is correct.

Brandon Lee (Bruce Lee's son) was killed by a "blank" while filming The Crow. The gun wasn't loaded properly when a stage hand other than the firearms expert got involved with the prop.

John-Erik Hexum had the wad from a blank fired at his head at close range, and it penetrated his skull. He was on set filming a TV series called Cover Up.

HauntPhReAk
06-27-2009, 10:30 PM
... There are a million other ways to scare people, so there is no need to do one that is risky.
A trained bear charging the group would scare the heck out of them, but there is a risk so do not do it...

I agree with Allen's entire post, but I thought he couldn't have said it better than by using the trained bear example. Look what happened to Roy of "Siegfried and Roy" after all of the years of performing the same routine with his precious pet tigers. Just one accident is all it takes.

Just because something is scary doesn't mean you should use it. People get killed every day with guns filled with blanks. One mishap is all it takes. Do you want to spend the rest of your life in jail for manslaughter?

hauntedghost
06-27-2009, 11:02 PM
i also heard that there is a gun were you can buy that runs off compressed air or something like that.. it does not shoot blanks at all. i don't know if this is ture or not. and by the way i am geting Tim's first book. the cost $150... iam seen the ways of the bad of this but i need to find a better way to do this.

the thing i am using it, is this.. there will be a big "thing" and there is army guys trying to shoot at it while your costomers are behind them in this walk way/ fox hole.

it will be something out like the cloverfield movie.

shawnc
06-28-2009, 04:02 AM
Tim's first book, while great, is priced like that just because of its rarity. They hardly ever come up for sale so those who have them price them really high. I think his later books actually deal more with today's situations.

hauntedghost
06-28-2009, 06:19 AM
I agree with Allen's entire post, but I thought he couldn't have said it better than by using the trained bear example. Look what happened to Roy of "Siegfried and Roy" after all of the years of performing the same routine with his precious pet tigers. Just one accident is all it takes.

Just because something is scary doesn't mean you should use it. People get killed every day with guns filled with blanks. One mishap is all it takes. Do you want to spend the rest of your life in jail for manslaughter?


yes i know, know......i just wish there was some way i can do with out the guns or find a prop gun with out useing blank too. i did buy tim's frist book and it cost me a nice $150 for it too. so i think i am going to hold on to it in tell i die or some thing like that. by the way has anyone read tim's frist book?? was it good or bad? i would like to hear what you say about it. thanks!!

SomeThingInTheIce
06-28-2009, 08:57 AM
A blank gun can still kill if fired to close to someone, USE PROP GUNS ONLY!!!! As for not using any gun, to each his own.

NYBob
06-28-2009, 09:18 PM
I was working in a "Girl-To-Gorilla" show many years ago, where we'd shoot the "gorilla" with a blank gun as it broke out of its cage. One day the flame from the barrel of the gun set the gorilla suit on fire.

The situation was immediately brought under control and no on was injured - but GO FIGURE.

And besides, some parts of the world the sound of gunfire can have all the mindless pukes pulling THEIR guns out ready to 'pop off a cap'. If you're not metal-detecting them upon entry to your event, there is THAT possibility.

If you were familiar with some crowds out there these days, you wouldn't even CONSIDER using a prop gun as an effect.

hauntedghost
06-28-2009, 11:32 PM
well after much thinking of this little idea in my head. I will not do the guns at all. i will try some other way of doing this. maybe fire??? just kidding.. any ways i thank you for your in put on this and i hope i can fix or remake this idea i have goimg in my head of mine.. you never know i mite have something bigger and better!!!!!

shawnc
06-28-2009, 11:43 PM
There are quite a few air guns/cannons out there. And you can find plans for making them yourself. Some of them depend on the noise for their scare, while others use the blast of air - touching your patrons without really touching them, in effect.

You still want to be careful with this. They are generally aimed low just for the startle. You want to make sure the area around it is clear. If anything gets kicked in front of it between groups it could shoot that object out the next time it fires.

DarkTikiEntertainment
06-29-2009, 08:16 PM
My two cents... Unless you're scanning all guests with metal detectors, there is a distinct possibility that some of your patrons will be armed with real guns (concealed weapons) when visiting your haunt. Some people don't go anywhere in public without being armed. Putting such guests into an environment where they might believe guns are being fired near or at them is risky business. People react in different ways to fear. I wouldn't recommend ever aiming a gun (even with blanks) at any kind of living target in a haunt. Now if you do utilize metal detectors, and can guarantee that your haunt is weapon-free, here is some advice regarding gunshot simulation via audio.

There used to be paragraphs here giving many tips for creating realistic gunshot simulations using sound design, but upon further thought about the subject, I decided to delete them. I think it's probably better to just leave guns out of haunts all together.

Dr. Giggles
06-29-2009, 08:58 PM
I advise AGAINST the gun. Theres a fine line between scary/fantasy/entertaining and just too realistic. I find it not scary but threatening if i even see a gun in a scene. And I personally would react violently. It just puts a hard realistic edge on it in my opinion and isnt a scare, its a threat.

Allen H
06-29-2009, 11:50 PM
Doc,
your a genius, well said "its not a scare its a threat" thats a fine line we walk all the time. very well said.
Allen H

hauntedghost
06-30-2009, 03:59 AM
Doc,
your a genius, well said "its not a scare its a threat" thats a fine line we walk all the time. very well said.
Allen H



very true on that!!!


i did much thinking and I am NOT doing it!!! because you WILL get dumb people out there and i mite also get one dumb actor all at the same time and boom! you end up with a hole lot of problems... Then no body will have a good time..


on a better note i will be getting Tim's first book in soon!!!!

shawnc
06-30-2009, 04:56 AM
I advise AGAINST the gun. Theres a fine line between scary/fantasy/entertaining and just too realistic. I find it not scary but threatening if i even see a gun in a scene. And I personally would react violently. It just puts a hard realistic edge on it in my opinion and isnt a scare, its a threat.

You know, this just made me think about all the scenes I've seen in horror movies where a cop/soldier/armed person is confronted by a zombie/trademarked character/creature. Just shooting it would be boring. So somehow the gun always malfunctions or is knocked away and the hero has to find another way to combat the monster or escape the situation.

That might be a good lesson for haunters in developing a theme or just a scare.

shawnc
06-30-2009, 04:58 AM
on a better note i will be getting Tim's first book in soon!!!!

And now watch there be a scare in the book with the use of guns! :roll:

hauntedghost
06-30-2009, 03:27 PM
And now watch there be a scare in the book with the use of guns! :roll:

lol!! that will be the lest of my problems!!!


what the idea i had in my mind was there was a monster in a big door way and was trying to get in. the door way was to look like the gates of hell or something like that. Then you will have 3-4 actors playing army guys trying to shoot this monster. you will have the customers runing in a long fox hole path or something like that. Trying to avoid this monster, while the actors are shooting at it. the monster was to be 20ft high. Then the doors will be 25ft high. so it was to be our big ending for the haunt.

well, at lest i can have that idea as a back burner for right now. In tell i can come up with a better idea for it.

OR can you guys help me on some better way of doing this idea WITH out using the guns? Thank you for helping on this!!!

HG

shawnc
06-30-2009, 03:54 PM
Knowing the specific situation helps a lot. I'll think on it and I'm sure others will add their opinions but what immediately comes to mind is the scene from King Kong. I don't remember how it went exactly but it seems when he was trying to break through the gate on the island they weren't shooting at hime - maybe because they didn't think the bullets would hurt him?

Do the people shooting have to be military? If so maybe have some bent and mangled prop guns and shell casings lying on the floor, along with some bodies, making it look like they already tried to shoot him and are now resorting to hand-to-hand combat? Have one of the soldiers run at the group coming through screaming "Bullets don't hurt it! Get out while you can!"

Or something like that.

hauntedghost
06-30-2009, 05:30 PM
man this idea is hard to get by...

i just need something to make it cool but scary at the same time too.

hauntedghost
07-02-2009, 11:55 PM
well!!!

i got Tim's book in and it's cool!!! there is some things that i alreadly know about but there is some other info that i don't know about..

on the other hand it puts out some good old school stuff far as scares.

there is some things that i will have in my haunt from this book but Tim 's book does not do well on about out side haunts. maybe i will buy Tim's 3th book and see what it has in it.

Unless you guys know what's in Tim's 3rd book is all about.


thanks
HG

MidnightEvil
07-03-2009, 01:11 AM
If you have never built or owned a haunt before you should
get Tim's new book. it is about how to build a haunt on a
budget .
It covers things like.
Budget
Location
Theme
Staff
Room Size
Fire Marshal
Estimating The Cost
Building Wall Panels
Connecting Panels
Floorplan Desing
Sound Production
Lighting Equipment
Facades and Entryways
Construction Tips
Prop and Scene Ideas
Scare's and More

Allen H
07-03-2009, 02:17 AM
I highly recommend Kelly Allen's book
"So You Want To Be A Haunt Entrepreneur"
Kelly is a member on the list so you can PM him for info.
I have heard nothing but good about all of his products
While Im pimping products I will mention my Dynamic haunted house acting DVD a great tool for actor training. In my opinion (and many others so I hear)
Allen H

hauntedghost
07-03-2009, 03:58 AM
Thanks guys!!!


Because i am on a real small budget right now. hopefully i can open in the year 2013 and see were that goes right now.

Allen,
How do you pm some one?? and do you know how much it's going to be for the book??

Thanks!!

HG

Allen H
07-03-2009, 11:13 AM
click on their name and it will give you the option, in the right hand corner just above the boards you will see your notifications that tells you when you have a message. contact Kelly about the book, I dont want to quote prices if they have changed.
Allen H