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View Full Version : Is anyone ready for this??? Wages goes up?



drfrightner
07-10-2009, 05:12 PM
http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/107297/higher-minimum-wage-coming-soon.html?mod=career-salary_negotiation

mindtumor
07-10-2009, 05:24 PM
Minium wage in Michigan is already higher than that. We went through this awhile back already.

drfrightner
07-10-2009, 05:38 PM
And they wonder why the economy is in the dumps... they think paying teenagers more money is a good thing well not really it just ships more jobs overseas. This will hurt the haunt industry big time!

Larry

shredman
07-10-2009, 05:57 PM
Im soo not ready for this, this is going to hurt us pretty bad.

I guess I need to stop hiring a ton of actors and build more props haha.

But Larry your so right, this isnt good for the economy

HauntPhReAk
07-10-2009, 05:59 PM
I'm going to play "devil's advocate" for a moment and just make a suggestion. Perhaps by increasing the minimum wage, more of our patrons will be able to afford to go to haunts this season so we will have more business? I'm just thinking out loud and am not disagreeing. I'm just wondering about the possibility.

HauntedMemphis
07-10-2009, 07:55 PM
Actually, I think what it will do is eliminate more minimum wage jobs, making more of the biggest haunt demographic (teenagers) not be able to afford to come.

Mike Goff
07-10-2009, 07:56 PM
not quite sure how our patrons will be able to go to haunts when thier boss laid them off to compensate for all of the raises he will be giving.

Interesting debate that they always have about what is good for an economy and what is not, the one thing that no one ever talks about is that in a free society, the govt. has no right to manage or interfere with an economy. Doesn't anyone care about freedom anymore?

Anyone....

Tom
07-10-2009, 08:26 PM
boss laid them off to compensate for all of the raises he will be giving.

Anyone....

Wait a minute, if he laid them off, then who is getting the raises? LOL

Couldn't resist...

SpookywoodsFX.com
07-10-2009, 08:26 PM
I'm sure that's what they had in mind from the start Larry, paying teenage haunted attraction employees more money.
Its not only teenagers that make minimum wage, there are millions of adults that work hard every day and make the same.
Minimum wage should rise to compensate for increasing taxes and prices of goods and services. Who has recently raised their ticket prices?? I know of a few....

Mike, you should be happy the government does regulate it, otherwise there would be millions making less than what the minimum wage is set at now... That's pretty sad. By your statement it seems you would pay less if given the opportunity?

Besides, aren't the actors of a haunted attractions the bread and butter, more or less? You could always just fire them if you don't think they are worth the money paid.
Business owners will hate it, John Q. Public will love it... Two sides to every coin.

Tom
07-10-2009, 08:28 PM
I'm going to play "devil's advocate" for a moment and just make a suggestion. Perhaps by increasing the minimum wage, more of our patrons will be able to afford to go to haunts this season so we will have more business? I'm just thinking out loud and am not disagreeing. I'm just wondering about the possibility.

I'll play the devil with ya and good point. Kinda like the price of gas going down last year just before the haunt season. You know it helped. So little extra money to spend...

Twin Locusts
07-10-2009, 08:46 PM
I was paying that to high schoolers last year; otherwise you couldn't keep them for mall jobs. The median home price in this zip is 349k, for the South that's steep, we've lost 2.5% in overall real property value, state has lost 8%. Our micro economy is more like Connecticut.

People that think raising the minimum wage helps workers also think Canada has health care figured out.

Twin Locusts
07-10-2009, 09:01 PM
I'm sure that's what they had in mind from the start Larry, paying teenage haunted attraction employees more money.
Its not only teenagers that make minimum wage, there are millions of adults that work hard every day and make the same.
Minimum wage should rise to compensate for increasing taxes and prices of goods and services. Who has recently raised their ticket prices?? I know of a few....

Mike, you should be happy the government does regulate it, otherwise there would be millions making less than what the minimum wage is set at now... That's pretty sad. By your statement it seems you would pay less if given the opportunity?

Besides, aren't the actors of a haunted attractions the bread and butter, more or less? You could always just fire them if you don't think they are worth the money paid.
Business owners will hate it, John Q. Public will love it... Two sides to every coin.


With sincere and all due respect I have to ask you a question. I won't partake in ranting and it's not my intent to start one.

However, could you please state your age and what state you grew up in? I ask because one can better understand a person's take on their surroundings by having some idea were they view them from.

I'll go first. I'm Greg, 41 - 42 next week, born during the Summer of Love. Born and raised in Kentucky.

Nightgore
07-10-2009, 09:12 PM
So, I wonder... employee or contract labor? Here, a contact laborer can be paid a DAILY rate, which is what we're doing... not hourly; well, they can be hourly, it goes both ways. So... would it be beneficial for haunts to take Kelly Allens approach to paying actors/crew? Having a set daily amount or pay, work to whole day to get it, and get paid at the END of the season!

I really don't see this being a problem for haunts at all! -Tyler

spookhaven
07-10-2009, 09:23 PM
Tyler is thinking on the same lines I would. 600 and under you don't have to 1099 them so it's easier all the way around.

Pumpkingrl
07-10-2009, 09:26 PM
Hi, I'm new here. I was wondering if any of you guys could give me some advice on starting a Haunted House... I want to get started soon, but just don't know were to start??:

Twin Locusts
07-10-2009, 09:33 PM
Tyler is thinking on the same lines I would. 600 and under you don't have to 1099 them so it's easier all the way around.

Precisely. Even if the contract haunter makes over 600$ they can likely deduct or depreciate tools of the trade to the point that they owe no federal taxes. It's been a long time since I've dealt with state income tax so I don't know how the states side would impact.

If the contractor invested in any new costume item purchased for a given project they could deduct 100% of the cost, and the item would remain in their inventory of tools.

shredman
07-10-2009, 09:33 PM
If you look around you will find a lot of people are asking that same question Pumpkngirl.

First off, why don't you start a thread asking that question instead of asking on this thread that isn't really anything to do with your question.

Second, the best advice anyone could give is to do a lot of research, and NO YOUR LIMITS. start small, don't set your standards too high, know when you set your standards you are capable of reaching that goal. It would be better to outdo what you plan on doing than to not quite reach your plan.

If your starting this year, better hurry and start working.

Tom
07-10-2009, 09:35 PM
Hi, I'm new here. I was wondering if any of you guys could give me some advice on starting a Haunted House... I want to get started soon, but just don't know were to start??:

You'll have to pay us minimum wage to tell you LOL

Tom
07-10-2009, 09:36 PM
You'll have to pay us minimum wage to tell you LOL

Sorry, but this is the topic at hand on this post.

Pumpkingrl
07-10-2009, 09:40 PM
Actually no I'm not going to this year, I have planned for 2010. I have done some researching, I was mostly curious about is, do you need to have a license to have a haunted house? Just curious, I'm trying not to sound stupid but I hear lots of things from other people and just want to make sure.. thank you I do appreciate your help.. my name is Lynette

shredman
07-10-2009, 09:41 PM
hAHA tom, I love it

Tom
07-10-2009, 10:03 PM
Actually no I'm not going to this year, I have planned for 2010. I have done some researching, I was mostly curious about is, do you need to have a license to have a haunted house? Just curious, I'm trying not to sound stupid but I hear lots of things from other people and just want to make sure.. thank you I do appreciate your help.. my name is Lynette

Lynette,
I'm doing this for free :)
I would suggest starting a new with your question. The topic/post you are on is way off and you won't get much help (because of the topic at hand).
Start a new post with your question (which is a very good question) and you'll get a huge response.

Tom
07-10-2009, 10:30 PM
Actually no I'm not going to this year, I have planned for 2010. I have done some researching, I was mostly curious about is, do you need to have a license to have a haunted house? Just curious, I'm trying not to sound stupid but I hear lots of things from other people and just want to make sure.. thank you I do appreciate your help.. my name is Lynette

Lynette, I've reposted your questions on a new subject on Fright Forum (thread). It will get a lot more hits and answers. Hope this helps and good luck.

drfrightner
07-10-2009, 11:06 PM
Spookywoods ...

You could NOT BE MORE WRONG on this issue...

Democrates like raising the wage because they try to appeal to low end workers and minorities. Republicans who are a whole lot smarter than those democrates are opposed to raising wages.

Lets USE SOME COMMON SENSE HERE...

If your pay your workers $5.00 per hour then over night you have to pay them $8.00 per hour what do you do as a business man? You must raise your prices. Duh we all know that... so how did anyone benefit?

Lets keep going... if Taco Bell is paying all their workers right now lets say 6.50 per hour now they must pay 7.50 per hour this will impact their business so they will raise the price. Who eats at Taco Bell the same damn people who make minimum wage for the most part.... mostly teenagers.

Lets keep going... if all the GAME STORES are paying XYZ and now they have to pay a dollar or two dollars more when you add that up over the year that is thousands and thousands of dollars... they will just raise the cost of the game to pay for it... who buys the game the guy making minimum wage so he does not benefit.

Lets keep going... lets talk homes, cars, whatever UNIONS want more money so they get it the GM"s of the world raise prices, people don't buy because they'll go with the Japan car because its cheaper who have cheaper labor. Who gets hurt the same UNION workers who are not all laid off.

Home prices... people would buy for $120,000.00 two years ago and sell today for $180,000 and someone would pay it, then when the whole market crashes the home goes back to what its really worth and the guy who bought the home is out tens of thousands.

One last one... a guy like yourself can no longer afford to make masks because people will only pay so much you can't find cheap labor so you send all the molds to China and have them made there. Now all the guys who actually had a job making SOMETHING are now unemployed and then I'm paying for them to live not you, me the tax payer.

Unemployment is at 10% in this country somehow you think raising wages is going to entice RICH people to start new manufactoring, or invest in new business... are you nuts?

The fact is cost of living needs to come down, down, down, ... AMERICANS are spoiled they always want more money which is fine but when you get more people raise what they charge so you really don't get a head. Think about it use common sense here...

BRING COST OF LIVING DOWN then you can afford to manufactor more things in USA... raise workers rates and you ship jobs overseas.

Its just that simple...

With my haunted house this year, I will hire 20% less people to pay for it that I can promise you!

My biggest cost is LABOR now its bigger! Not only will labor cost me more money it will now also cost me more to buy a nail at Home Depot everyone loses, no one gains not even the people you are talking about who you would presume it would help. It doesn't it just puts them out of work.

Get ready un-employment should climb now to 12 or 13%.

Larry

Tom
07-10-2009, 11:20 PM
Spookywoods ...

You could NOT BE MORE WRONG on this issue...

Democrates like raising the wage because they try to appeal to low end workers and minorities. Republicans who are a whole lot smarter than those democrates are opposed to raising wages.
Larry

Larry, hate to say this but......
The minimum wage was set by our past President. A replublican... We knew this a year and a half ago. it's not a surprise.
I'm not a a huge politic guy here (cuz I hate either side) but it was in acted while your guy Bush was in charge.

SpookywoodsFX.com
07-10-2009, 11:41 PM
Reverse (almost) everything you just said Larry and you will see the reality.
The cost of living has already gone up

Red pill or the Blue pill?
The cost of living has already gone up

Prices on everything has already gone up, yeah, haunted attraction ticket prices as well :rolleyes: We add "speed passes", "combos" and "VIP" tickets, all at a seriously inflated price.
The cost of living has already gone up

This way that way, up down, left right... Doesn't matter how you spin it.
The cost of living has already gone up

I agree with both sides. I disagree with both sides. I'm for it and against it. No one wins but the worker bees because the prices of goods and services have already gone up... But... We have been paying inflated prices for a long time already (including under paid Americans). It's nothing but a PONG match that will continue until the end of days (2012?). *you guys remember ATARI Pong, right?*
j/k
The cost of living has already gone up

""Republicans who are a whole lot smarter""
I don't get involved with that garbage. Call 'W' and complain about his wage hike. I think he's taking calls now.

Twin Locusts
35
Cali and NC, both just about equal time. Plus a few years in FL and brief stays in SC... Been around..

drfrightner
07-11-2009, 01:22 AM
Wrong again... if you don't recall its the Democrates who have controlled the house and senate for the last 3 years and they voted it in not "W".

Republican voted against it!

WE NEED TO GIVE THE DEMOCRATES THE BOOT... they are bad for small business and big business. Everyone always wants to stick it to the man but its all those rich people that keep the rest of the nation with jobs.

Now they want to tax the rich to pay for health care... well that is just more money that will leave the investment circle to go along with all the jobs this rate increase will cause.

VOTE OUT DEMOCRATES...

Larry

Twin Locusts
07-11-2009, 08:23 AM
Larry, Is Democrates some new twisted philosopher like Socretes or Descartes?;)


Spooky. Thanks for the reply.

I'd like to re-animate Adam Smith at times like these because the deeper point of raising a "minimum wage" has absolutely nothing to do with contemporary economic conditions or partisan politics. It has to do with basic free market principals. What is a given buyer willing to pay for a given item of value - what is a seller willing to take for a given unit of value. Market value for one hour of services from an electrician isn't same as an hour from an architect. Artificially raising the cost of the electrician's hour because he wants a home on the beach someday only artificially inflates end prices to the consumer.

If you believe raising the min wage helps people it's because you've been lied to for a very long time by lilly white Patrician educators and politicians? These people benefit from creating an 'Us vs. Them' attitude among business owners and workers.

The fact is that artificially placing value on any traded commoditiy in the market spurs inflation. Bumping the min wage pushes wages and salaries above it up as well creating a chain reaction of fractionally higher wages throughout the chain. As businesses do, they pass along this new 'cost of doing business' to the consumer. This process isn't simple and can't be shown happening live on youtube, but it happens.

What neighbors and leaders should do for Americans is instill the value of Deferred Gratification [education] so that their skill set commands more than a minimum wage. Then and only then will any person or any group of people break out of an economic caste. For far too long a trend has developed in this country, teaching people they are victims, and that someone else is to blame for their life situation. It's a cruel lie that truly oppresses people. I won't bore you with examples though I have plenty. Anyone can better their position in this country through investment in themselves, not through an edict demanding I pay them more for filling a spot on a line.

The really sad part is suggesting that min wage helps pay taxes, these people don't pay taxes. The deduction made from payroll comes back in the form of a refund or tax credit, direct payments from the government.

Darkangel
07-11-2009, 08:31 AM
Republicans are smarter than Democrats? That's the most ridiculous thing I've read in years. Didn't know there was an I.Q. test to determine which party you can belong to and vote for. I'm assuming Bush's Charity "C" average in college was obtained because he befriended too many dems and the stupid rubbed off on him!

Seriously,
I do agree this is never a good thing to have the minimum wage go up from a haunts perspective. Taco Bell sees a lot more business then we do and can absorb the increase by increasing prices in a more subtle way but when a haunt goes from $15 to $20 or more the public takes notice and many will not come. Larry's right we are spoiled ifthe cost of living was less it would change everything!

Also, the increase was in 29 states not all of them right?

Darkangel

graystone
07-11-2009, 08:44 AM
Whats the big deal yeah the minium wage went up. But hell even more taxes will come out now! Its not about helping increase wages its about getting more tax money! Shane and its either way were screwed! Shane this time.

Twin Locusts
07-11-2009, 08:55 AM
Republicans are smarter than Democrats? That's the most ridiculous thing I've read in years. Didn't know there was an I.Q. test to determine which party you can belong to and vote for. I'm assuming Bush's Charity "C" average in college was obtained because he befriended too many dems and the stupid rubbed off on him!

Seriously,
I do agree this is never a good thing to have the minimum wage go up from a haunts perspective. Taco Bell sees a lot more business then we do and can absorb the increase by increasing prices in a more subtle way but when a haunt goes from $15 to $20 or more the public takes notice and many will not come. Larry's right we are spoiled ifthe cost of living was less it would change everything!

Also, the increase was in 29 states not all of them right?

Darkangel

There is a federally mandated min. wage, states may subsequently add to that previously established wage. Some states have no 'state min wage', therefore employers must pay the fed amt.

The recent increase was a fed mandate that was the last increment in a three step increase over the last couple of years.

Economies of scale have little to do with the harm caused businesses and consumers from overall inflation. Yes, Taco Bell realizes more gross revenue per year and can spread a price increase out to the point that it's imperceptable. Those pennies from TB would eventually hit the dollar spent at haunts.

Haunts experience a minimal hit from the overall economy. Haunts have a wide economic moat, they are unique in entertainment value; there is nothing else like haunts, except other haunts in the same market. Which, to some point of saturation isn't a bad thing as the core consumer group will likely pay to see all the haunts in that market. They are seasonal which builds more value to the consumer, a built in sense of urgency because it actually does go away come November, and they become a tradition for an ever growing seasonal fan base.

Min wage increase still hits the larger economy the same, from a consumer standpoint.

SomeThingInTheIce
07-11-2009, 02:59 PM
Min. wage is a starting point, if you are still making that as a adult you have no one to blame but yourself! I know you are not making min. and I'm sure you have not for some time .

I'm sure that's what they had in mind from the start Larry, paying teenage haunted attraction employees more money.
Its not only teenagers that make minimum wage, there are millions of adults that work hard every day and make the same.
Minimum wage should rise to compensate for increasing taxes and prices of goods and services. Who has recently raised their ticket prices?? I know of a few....

Mike, you should be happy the government does regulate it, otherwise there would be millions making less than what the minimum wage is set at now... That's pretty sad. By your statement it seems you would pay less if given the opportunity?

Besides, aren't the actors of a haunted attractions the bread and butter, more or less? You could always just fire them if you don't think they are worth the money paid.
Business owners will hate it, John Q. Public will love it... Two sides to every coin.

SpookywoodsFX.com
07-11-2009, 06:39 PM
Min. wage is a starting point, if you are still making that as a adult you have no one to blame but yourself! I know you are not making min. and I'm sure you have not for some time .

There is truth in that statement, for some but not all... But it's a pretty tasteless remark as it stands now.

Mike Goff
07-11-2009, 09:52 PM
There is wisdom to be had in both sides of this discussion. I for one will be one of the first to step up and declare how important it is to take care of your employees, I do believe that it all comes back around. I also think that it should be my decision what I pay. I have never held a gun to anyones head, and made them work for me. Not even on our busiest night. Any one is free to quit any time they like, I like to think that they stay because they like working here.

My problem with a federal minimum wage, is the same problem I have with any and all one size fits all solutions. What makes sense in New York City, seems down right stupid in Round Head Ohio. What is perfectly exceptable in Mayberry North Carolina, would probably offend someone in San Francisco.

I'm not an anarchist, and I do believe that having benchmarks and standards are sometimes a necessary evil. I only wish that they were more regionalized. Kind of like the way our founding fathers set up this formally constitutional republic. They were very particular in the language they used in crafting the Federal govt. Key word "Federal", as in a federation of sovergn states. All of the answers to our problems can be found in the constitution, but only if we are willing to accept the good and the bad that comes with being free.


Anyone...

Motograter
07-12-2009, 12:27 AM
I've heard that min wage will reach $8.50 at some point in Michigan at least.

Darkangel
07-12-2009, 07:28 AM
That's too bad Bill. Can employers in Michigan bear this you guys have been hit hard lately?

Darkangel

Kevin Dells
07-12-2009, 06:12 PM
Spookywoods ...

You could NOT BE MORE WRONG on this issue...

Democrates like raising the wage because they try to appeal to low end workers and minorities. Republicans who are a whole lot smarter than those democrates are opposed to raising wages.

Lets USE SOME COMMON SENSE HERE...

If your pay your workers $5.00 per hour then over night you have to pay them $8.00 per hour what do you do as a business man? You must raise your prices. Duh we all know that... so how did anyone benefit?

Lets keep going... if Taco Bell is paying all their workers right now lets say 6.50 per hour now they must pay 7.50 per hour this will impact their business so they will raise the price. Who eats at Taco Bell the same damn people who make minimum wage for the most part.... mostly teenagers.

Lets keep going... if all the GAME STORES are paying XYZ and now they have to pay a dollar or two dollars more when you add that up over the year that is thousands and thousands of dollars... they will just raise the cost of the game to pay for it... who buys the game the guy making minimum wage so he does not benefit.

Lets keep going... lets talk homes, cars, whatever UNIONS want more money so they get it the GM"s of the world raise prices, people don't buy because they'll go with the Japan car because its cheaper who have cheaper labor. Who gets hurt the same UNION workers who are not all laid off.

Home prices... people would buy for $120,000.00 two years ago and sell today for $180,000 and someone would pay it, then when the whole market crashes the home goes back to what its really worth and the guy who bought the home is out tens of thousands.

One last one... a guy like yourself can no longer afford to make masks because people will only pay so much you can't find cheap labor so you send all the molds to China and have them made there. Now all the guys who actually had a job making SOMETHING are now unemployed and then I'm paying for them to live not you, me the tax payer.

Unemployment is at 10% in this country somehow you think raising wages is going to entice RICH people to start new manufactoring, or invest in new business... are you nuts?

The fact is cost of living needs to come down, down, down, ... AMERICANS are spoiled they always want more money which is fine but when you get more people raise what they charge so you really don't get a head. Think about it use common sense here...

BRING COST OF LIVING DOWN then you can afford to manufactor more things in USA... raise workers rates and you ship jobs overseas.

Its just that simple...

With my haunted house this year, I will hire 20% less people to pay for it that I can promise you!

My biggest cost is LABOR now its bigger! Not only will labor cost me more money it will now also cost me more to buy a nail at Home Depot everyone loses, no one gains not even the people you are talking about who you would presume it would help. It doesn't it just puts them out of work.

Get ready un-employment should climb now to 12 or 13%.

Larry

O.K. Larry but now let's hear from somebody that dosen't make crap for a paycheck and lives day to day, somebody thats down to one car for their entire family, and somebody that is once again late on his rent.... That would be me!

For the record i have worked my entire dam life at the same profession which is building huge staircases for the mansions of the filthy rich,BUT since the housing market bottomed all that time i invested into my proffession (which everybody told me your much more valuable with years of experience at one job!)is now just a joke while im searching for other types of work.

I am not a lazy person i used to work 60-65 hour weeks if i could whenever i could, I have all my kids living with me because they can't afford to move out with todays economy.

But recently after 28 years building stairs had to find a new job when i was laid off, i was making 24 an hour with company vehicle, time and a half with overtime resulting in 1200-1400 dollar weekly paychecks.

The situation im in now after months of looking and finally settling so i could be employed and having money come in is 11 bucks an hour, no benefits. I was called to serve Jury duty and lostt 2 days this past pay period so my take home for 2 weeks was 650 dollars. Thta's Freaking Sad!! I didn't even have to pay federal taxes out of this check it was so small!

Heres my point! If they raise minimum wage it gives 45 year olds like me grounds to stand on when it comes to raise time, i can ask one simple question and make higher ups feel rediculous.

" How come a teenager just out of High school is making 8 bucks an hour but a 45 year old with huge financial responsibilty's and a family of five only make three dollars more an hour?"

Now this is the normal pay for almost everybody in the deparments i work. All but 2 guys out of 30 in my shop are making 10-12 dollars an hour. Were all barely surviving, every blue collar worker is barely surviving!!

Now the kicker, Ready for this! The owner and his family all live in million dollar mansions, all drive very nice cars and all belong to country clubs. How is it right that some can eat steak and some can't eat at all. So i for one am glad as hell they raised it, it gives guys like me a little fighting power come raise time if they don't freeze it again!


And yes the little guys do need to make more, and believe me theres a lot of little guys out there right now because of the crisis were in. Almost every carpenter, electrician, plumber or anybodyelse that used to build houses for a living is now flipping burgers or selling retail at walmart. Give that some thought. And trust me my family hasn't eaten at Taco Bell or any other fast food in over 4 months.

Kevin Dells
07-12-2009, 06:25 PM
Min. wage is a starting point, if you are still making that as a adult you have no one to blame but yourself! I know you are not making min. and I'm sure you have not for some time .

Yeah ice that was a pretty tasteless thing to say! Please read my story to larry just above this reply.

Trust me im a bust my ass kind of guy and have been my whole life,ALWAYS a good provider for my family and always kept with my same job so i could advance more in life and so were the other 40 guys that were let go with me when the stair company that WAS kicking ass closed down due to the housing market dieing!

There's some situations that cannot be foreseen or helped ! And hey if you know somebdoy hiring i have a great work record and im willing to relocate!!

Jim Warfield
07-12-2009, 07:34 PM
Said the guys getting off of the sailing ship to the stone age people who only had rocks, sharp sticks and no steel. No gunpowder.
They took what they wanted which was just about everything.
So it began, so it continues.
Everybody looks out for "Number One" (which means yourself and your family)
Yes, Larry those rich people who own everything need their investment capital so they can hire more Chinese people to work for a handfull of rice everyday.
Does anybody care if their neighbor lost a good job? You might care when the crime begins but only the gated communitys have enough Police to respond to calls.
Illusion of fairness, illusion of democracy, illusions sold to us by ad people to keep the masses calmer and hopefull as we go without medical advice or treatment, we can all busy our brains with the "story" of the week, some celebrity died , some team won, another lost, some car went fast, some body got mutilated......
Please, do not steal my newset big money making fresh idea.
I'm trying to generate some financial intrest in paying me by the hour to clean rich people's cat boxes.(Bear with me here) A documentary film will be made of it as I do an incredible cleaning job , pretending to be blind, using the braille method of catbox cleaning (invented by me).
Each grain of sand will be picked individually squeezed, assessed and placed in the appropriate bin, "Clean" or "Pooh-Pooh".
I am estimating the film will be several weeks long and I will be getting paid by the hour!

Why should any haunt customer bitch about the admission price when they pay much more to make numerous people millionaires everytime they pay for a pro sports ticket ?
We sure aren't making millions, are we?
Didn't think so.

Mike Goff
07-12-2009, 08:01 PM
I grew up in your typical blue collar family, during the late 70's early 80's. Dad was a Union machinist, twenty something an hour, mom was a Union telephone operator, also twenty something an hour. When thier union jobs left town, times got tough. What I learned from this is to diversify your skills, have something to fall back on.
I spent the first 10 to 15 years of my adult life trying to learn as much as I could. The most I ever made was 15 bucks an hour. For a short time, I resented the fact that when my parents were my age they had access to jobs that no longer exist. I quickly grew tired of working myself to death making someone else rich, but I never held any ill feeling towards the people who employed me. I recognized the fact that they worked very hard, and made good desicions to get there and without them I wouldn't have had anything at all. In fact several of my employers often gave me advise saying "I sure would hate to lose you, but your young and have potential, find your passion and persue it."

From this I learned that I would never get rich by working for someone else.
I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with working for someone else. There is alot to be said for working to live, verses living to work. There are times when I miss leaving my work at the time clock. Being self employed is a lifestyle, that not everyone is cut out for.

I don't consider myself to be rich, but I know that the potential is there.
I don't care much for Democrats or Republicans either one. It seems that all they care about is staying in power by keeping "We The People" at each others throats in the never ending Left Right argument. I just want to pursue my chosen career without the never ending assault on small buisiness and consequently the middle class.

As long as we are free, we have the chance to reach our full potential, but I fear that as long as there are people who cheer at the thought of someone else losing thier right to participate in a free market, liberty will continue to slip away.
Every time you chuckle at Uncle Sam sticking it to the man, you seal your own fate as well.

Carpe Diem and take charge of your own destiny... Or keep bitching comrades

Twin Locusts
07-12-2009, 10:08 PM
I grew up in your typical blue collar family, during the late 70's early 80's. Dad was a Union machinist, twenty something an hour, mom was a Union telephone operator, also twenty something an hour. When thier union jobs left town, times got tough. What I learned from this is to diversify your skills, have something to fall back on.
I spent the first 10 to 15 years of my adult life trying to learn as much as I could. The most I ever made was 15 bucks an hour. For a short time, I resented the fact that when my parents were my age they had access to jobs that no longer exist. I quickly grew tired of working myself to death making someone else rich, but I never held any ill feeling towards the people who employed me. I recognized the fact that they worked very hard, and made good desicions to get there and without them I wouldn't have had anything at all. In fact several of my employers often gave me advise saying "I sure would hate to lose you, but your young and have potential, find your passion and persue it."

From this I learned that I would never get rich by working for someone else.
I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with working for someone else. There is alot to be said for working to live, verses living to work. There are times when I miss leaving my work at the time clock. Being self employed is a lifestyle, that not everyone is cut out for.

I don't consider myself to be rich, but I know that the potential is there.
I don't care much for Democrats or Republicans either one. It seems that all they care about is staying in power by keeping "We The People" at each others throats in the never ending Left Right argument. I just want to pursue my chosen career without the never ending assault on small buisiness and consequently the middle class.

As long as we are free, we have the chance to reach our full potential, but I fear that as long as there are people who cheer at the thought of someone else losing thier right to participate in a free market, liberty will continue to slip away.
Every time you chuckle at Uncle Sam sticking it to the man, you seal your own fate as well.

Carpe Diem and take charge of your own destiny... Or keep bitching comrades

You get it Mike. Do you honestly have any idea how people can grow up in the US and not get the big picture of why we have what we have? I'm not sure anymore people realize what we have. My concern is that the education system has atrophied the mind to the point that we're chruning out media sheep stripped of the ability to see past slick hucksters.

It makes me feel a bit more assured when I see someone making sense. Thanks.

Mike Goff
07-13-2009, 07:13 AM
You nailed it, schools indoctrinate sheep. I don't think that they even talk about whats actually in the constitution, especially the 10th ammendment.

It takes alot of discipline to shy away from the opportunity to control someone else. Some people just can't handle the temptation. The "Greater good, We are the World croud" Think that the average person can't make good decisions for themselves and need someone to do it for them, enter the career politician.

It all starts with the word democracy (code word for incremental communisim)
In a democracy, 51% can enslave the other 49%. We were never intended to be a democracy. This is supposed to be a constitutional republic that ensures individual liberty, a representative federation of states to provide for a common defense, common money, and regular trade among the states, NOT regulated trade.

Ultimately people get the kind of govt. they deserve, look out, it could be a wild ride ahead.

jack
07-13-2009, 09:09 AM
Here's the problem--

'minimum wage'

That's it. When it became 'minimum wage' it became a problem.

Try it this way-- 'starting wage'.

That's what it's supposed to be. A starting wage. By altering the nomenclature we got the appearance that people were supposed to LIVE on that amount of money.

But they never were. THAT wage was designed to allow a company to hire and train new people without too much financial damage should they not work out. It varied between companies, proffessions and markets. And it varied because conditions varied.

We've also got this thing called a 'living wage'. That's an arbitrary number assigned to how much it costs to live decently. I say arbitrary because, like the 'minimum wage', it's set without regard to the varying conditions that exist.

Wages are part of this thing called 'overhead'. They are red ink in any business. And red ink is bad. If you raise wages arbitrarily you get more red ink. The more red ink you have the less profit you get.

Profit is black ink. Profit is what every business owner needs. Black ink needs to outweigh red ink. Without black ink red ink eventually covers everthing(for example, see USA). Black ink must be sought at all costs.

Federally mandated raises for new hires means more seasoned workers don't get raises. There's too much red ink already. So no raises. That gets rid of that red ink--how to get rid of the rest?

Layoffs?

Probably. Who gets laid off though? Often, it's older, experienced workers--because they cost more. Additionally, the younger ones will work longer(being younger).

So, trained quality workers are let go in favor of new hires. Quality suffers

But look--over there--a bunch of older people trying to make it on minimum wage at the jobs they've managed to land.

That's not right. Raise the minimum wage, no one should have to live on so little.

And I haven't even touched on what this does to the cost of living.

Spookywoods, you didn't refute anything Larry said by saying 'the cost of living has already gone up'. The cost of living can ALWAYS go up. It can go up indefinately.

But it can only go down to zero. Why not work to make it go the other way? The more it goes down, the more people have money to go to haunted attractions.

Twin Locusts
07-13-2009, 09:44 AM
Well put Mike and Jack.

To your red ink point. Here's a Pinko point.

I contend that trade unions have morphed from a legitimate bargaining mechanism into collectivist thugs that hold US business hostage.

I say Nyet to the Mir. GM has produced, for many years, a far inferior product compared with Toyota. The Thug backed GM employee has made over 150% the Toyota workers hourly wage to build this inferior product. Could this be why GM has steadily slipped into the toilet?

This facet of our economy is similar to the "Community Investment" Loans pushed by Barney Frank and Bill Clinton. Let's give home loans to people that can't afford them for a decade and see what happens.

Let the market decide value, not a Marxist soft hand empowered by sheep. The value of labor, goods, and services cannot be decided by people, only derived from the market.

SomeThingInTheIce
07-13-2009, 12:32 PM
I stand by my post, you guys do not make min. wage at your jobs and if you lost your job and had to take a min. wage job you are not what I'm taking about. Yes it sucks to lose work, I have and know how it feels. What I'm talking about are jobs that are min. wage jobs, if you get one of those and stay with all your life then you have no one to blame but yourself. For those of you that are working min. right now because it is all that is out there I know that you will get back to making what you were if not more, but that does not mean that just because you made more before that the job you are doing now needs to pony up the money when the job just does not call for it. The last thing that business need is to be paying $10.00 a hour to the dishwasher, nothing wrong with being a dishwasher to start or to start over just lets not make it a career.

damon carson
07-13-2009, 12:39 PM
Obamas going to be in town. Invite him to the Darkness Larry. I know your not a big fan of him but think of all the free publicity! LOL!
Damon

JamBam
07-14-2009, 08:17 AM
The minimum wage is set because there are many businesses, including many from this list that would pay much less if they could get away with it. That is why a "MINIMUM WAGE" was established. Think CHINA, THAILAND, SOUTH KOREA, INDONESIA, INDIA, etc about the poor souls who have no rights to minimum wages, yet alone decent or good conditions, that work for low wages, bad conditions, long hours, and no benefits or retirement.

Walmart was featured on a news show a couple of years ago. The case was made that they had beaten the labor cost out of clothes they import to America because the labor cost was insignificant to the total cost of producing and shipping it to the American consumers overall. The consumer wants as cheap of clothes as possible. More and more Americans cannot afford any better.

Today's work climate has become one that it is a race to the bottom. It is a vicious circle. The lower cost found outside of America drives more business away, puts people out of work, who have less. To get any job, they have to take less. The American consumers are victims of their own pursuit of saving money. Business never lowers prices. Any money saved, even on the backs of their fellow Americans, is kept as profit. Normal capitalism.

The entrepenuer who puts out the cash, takes the risk, deals with all the pressures of running a business, including making a payroll, deserves to be rewarded for their efforts. Unfortunately many feel it is a license to trample their workers for their own reward. A lot of businesses have also found out how to do business, pay decent ( or great wages), and still make a good profit.

A haunt that is worth anything, even the best in the USA, if not the world, should be paying ABOVE minimum wage. While keeping costs low is always a goal, there are many things to consider that many do not see. Paying better than minimum wage will get better help over time and keep recruiting costs down. How much is spent on advertising for and training new employees? Retention will create referrals, which will reduce trainging and recruiting costs. If your turnover rate is high, is it the nature of the actors' lives changing and moving on, or is it your pay scale and how you treat your employees? Do you treat them as employees or valued actors that contribute and make a good portion of your show what it is? Actors are more valuable than the average minimum wage employees aren't they? You may even get new employees that have been trained by other haunts which will save you money.

Larry, I will use your Darkness as a simple example. Assuming 50 employees, including make-up time and acting, for the 37 days you were open in 2008, the difference hypothetically in money paid in wages ( $ 6.55) alone ( payroll taxes no included) would be around $ 75,000. The new minmum wage ($ 7.25) will increase that cost by $ 7,000 to $ 82,000. A tidy sum even if you gross $ 700,000+. Now jump that to
$ 9 per hour and the wage cost alone will be around $ 102,000.

The labor cost as a percentage starts in this example at 11% in 2008, and rises to 12%. The cost of paying $ 9 to attract better actors raises that percentage to 15%. That 3% ($20,000) is the difference that a business person has to ask themselves, "Is the success of my show worth that?" Extra money spent on actors instead of advertising should result in customer reviews that will bring more revenue. We all know of movies that have had huge ad budgets, but bomb because of bad reviews.


Just check out businesses that make it a point to pay better than the rest of their industry and you will find happier, more dedicated workers. That is better for your business than an unhappy worker who feels they are being taken advantage of and will tell others, or worse yet be a poor ambassador for your show.


Now for all you anti-union people. Unions represent about 13 % of the workforce. Is this a part of the market you don't want? Put your money where your mouth is by putting exactly that into your ads. "I hate unions, keep your money you THUGS!" would be a good phrase for your advertising. I bet you won't do it.

Many good businesses treat their employees well and pay decent wages because it is the right thing to do, not because of pressure of having an organizing drive by oppressed workers. Unfortunately, workers take the brunt of mis-management at the top in most businesses that struggle to make money.

Twin Locusts
07-14-2009, 09:58 AM
The minimum wage is set because there are many businesses, including many from this list that would pay much less if they could get away with it. That is why a "MINIMUM WAGE" was established. Think CHINA, THAILAND, SOUTH KOREA, INDONESIA, INDIA, etc about the poor souls who have no rights to minimum wages, yet alone decent or good conditions, that work for low wages, bad conditions, long hours, and no benefits or retirement.

Walmart was featured on a news show a couple of years ago. The case was made that they had beaten the labor cost out of clothes they import to America because the labor cost was insignificant to the total cost of producing and shipping it to the American consumers overall. The consumer wants as cheap of clothes as possible. More and more Americans cannot afford any better.

Today's work climate has become one that it is a race to the bottom. It is a vicious circle. The lower cost found outside of America drives more business away, puts people out of work, who have less. To get any job, they have to take less. The American consumers are victims of their own pursuit of saving money. Business never lowers prices. Any money saved, even on the backs of their fellow Americans, is kept as profit. Normal capitalism.

The entrepenuer who puts out the cash, takes the risk, deals with all the pressures of running a business, including making a payroll, deserves to be rewarded for their efforts. Unfortunately many feel it is a license to trample their workers for their own reward. A lot of businesses have also found out how to do business, pay decent ( or great wages), and still make a good profit.

A haunt that is worth anything, even the best in the USA, if not the world, should be paying ABOVE minimum wage. While keeping costs low is always a goal, there are many things to consider that many do not see. Paying better than minimum wage will get better help over time and keep recruiting costs down. How much is spent on advertising for and training new employees? Retention will create referrals, which will reduce trainging and recruiting costs. If your turnover rate is high, is it the nature of the actors' lives changing and moving on, or is it your pay scale and how you treat your employees? Do you treat them as employees or valued actors that contribute and make a good portion of your show what it is? Actors are more valuable than the average minimum wage employees aren't they? You may even get new employees that have been trained by other haunts which will save you money.

Larry, I will use your Darkness as a simple example. Assuming 50 employees, including make-up time and acting, for the 37 days you were open in 2008, the difference hypothetically in money paid in wages ( $ 6.55) alone ( payroll taxes no included) would be around $ 75,000. The new minmum wage ($ 7.25) will increase that cost by $ 7,000 to $ 82,000. A tidy sum even if you gross $ 700,000+. Now jump that to
$ 9 per hour and the wage cost alone will be around $ 102,000.

The labor cost as a percentage starts in this example at 11% in 2008, and rises to 12%. The cost of paying $ 9 to attract better actors raises that percentage to 15%. That 3% ($20,000) is the difference that a business person has to ask themselves, "Is the success of my show worth that?" Extra money spent on actors instead of advertising should result in customer reviews that will bring more revenue. We all know of movies that have had huge ad budgets, but bomb because of bad reviews.


Just check out businesses that make it a point to pay better than the rest of their industry and you will find happier, more dedicated workers. That is better for your business than an unhappy worker who feels they are being taken advantage of and will tell others, or worse yet be a poor ambassador for your show.


Now for all you anti-union people. Unions represent about 13 % of the workforce. Is this a part of the market you don't want? Put your money where your mouth is by putting exactly that into your ads. "I hate unions, keep your money you THUGS!" would be a good phrase for your advertising. I bet you won't do it.

Many good businesses treat their employees well and pay decent wages because it is the right thing to do, not because of pressure of having an organizing drive by oppressed workers. Unfortunately, workers take the brunt of mis-management at the top in most businesses that struggle to make money.

many words, missing the point - pathos hyperbole.

Darkangel
07-14-2009, 10:18 AM
Cool, never thought I'd see Pathos Hyperbole used on this forum!

Darkangel

drfrightner
07-14-2009, 10:53 AM
Brett,

We have gone over this before and we must agree to disagree. I think Unions are outdated, and have hurt the US job market than even Walmart. Unions where 110% needed back in the days when workers worked for nothing while owners lived in mansions. The biggest difference is access to education today you have it back then you did not.

No I can not afford to pay $9.00 an hour and if I did I would go out of business because I'd have to raise my price so high no one would come anymore. Over 10% of every person in America has NO JOB and we're using billions of tax dollars to pay for those people to live rather than spending billions on new roads that put people to work that make 15 to 20 bucks an hour.

Cost of living should come down not wages go up that makes NO SENSE! You can't compete in a global economy when our cost of living passes the rest of the world by 50 to 80%! No matter how you shake it or bake it cost of living can only be brought down by paying lower wages then we can create more jobs here rather than China.

Haunted houses can't afford to hire 50 to 100 actors at 9 dollars you are insaine!!!!! LOL

Tell me who would pay for that? I know our customers if they'll pay it, same as who will pay for Taco Bells new rise in labor cost? Their customers... and so on and so forth. Raising the wages doesn't help anyone that is a democrate talking or an idiot one or the other. All it does is raise cost of living and typically that surpases the rate increases so you are back where you started.

GET AN EDUCATION start there then you don't have to worry about working in some plant for 6 bucks an hour or making tacos at Taco bell.

Larry

JamBam
07-14-2009, 11:26 AM
Larry,

I agree, education is a key to success. I am currently trying to finish my 30+ year struggle to get my degree. You should join me.

You should re-read my post for the part about recurring recruiting and training costs. How is your turnover rate? You said yourself on this board that you had 100+ people respond to you call for paid help at the TW event and only 40 showed up? Did you get any feedback from the other 60 after that to see why that happened?

How about the crew that does the rest of your business? Do you pay good enough wages and benefits to keep them, or are you constantly replacing workers that leave for greener pastures?

You claim that you spend $ 200,000 on advertising, yet don't realize that an investment in your employees might be better money spent.


You can lead the country to lower prices right now. Announce that your blacklight minigolf prices are lowered. Reduce the price of my banner ads on Hauntworld.com, the display ads in your magazine, the subscription rates as well. Then cut the price of your haunts. The Darkness price at TW I paid was $ 125 for two night and others paid $ 50 for the Saturday event. Next year, I offer you $ 10.

So, if you start it, the rest of the country will follow and we can send the country into deflation and we can beat Chinese, right?

My money is that you will decline the opportunity to save millions of American jobs and still blame all the others who refuse to take the step of cutting the financial rope of life as we know it. I already assume you won't put that anti-union stance in your ads either. Just as you won't add the words that you think ONLY democrats are idiots.

In the words of that great Republican Hero, Ronald Reagan, when he quoted first-century Jewish scholar named Hillel.

"If not you , then who, and if not now, then when?"



Now, where is my collection notice to get my million chicken bucks from that guy down south in case they become worth anything if this comes true! LOL And I didn't insult anyone in either post, like many of the posts before by others have done.

mindtumor
07-14-2009, 11:57 AM
If you pay $200,000 in advertising you would laugh and choke on a popsicle if you heard how little I can afford to pay. I am ashamed now. Oh well, I guess it is all relative though.

An interesting topic might be how much someone pays in rent/note and advertising and how that all relates to their attendance.

Motograter
07-14-2009, 12:26 PM
My brother, my father and myself where all laid off 2 weeks ago. Union members making over $20.00 an hour. Now that I sit at home all day long looking for work. It's all $7-$9 an hour jobs. I can't afford to live off of that. It just sucks!! I never went to college to get a degree, I'd love to but I can't even afford college living off of unemployment checks right now. The world just sucks right now!

Mr Nightmarez
07-14-2009, 02:08 PM
Sadly the economy has not only hurt skilled workers w/out an education or little education but it has hit everywhere... I have two friends that are engineers one has a masters and are over qualified for most jobs (sad when people even make that comment) but due to their education and last salary - they are not even being interviewed or considered. (One has been out of work since March and the other since May) The economy and US is at a low.... period.

The key as for the Scale and Minimum wages increasing. Sure it sucks, but you either A) Overcome it and just push onward (B) Drop back on your hires (C) Find other payment methods
As for staff and people that won't return, show up etc... We had that problem our first year but since then we implemented a lot of great incentives, a great work environment, training, and last year we hired 60 people and lost 10. So we had 5 new hires after the 10 but the key is compared to our hiring over 100 people as 40 no showed our first year - it has come a long way -
I believe we lost 20- our second year. And our returns have increased to the point we are looking at only interviewing or hiring 20-25 new people this season.

Remember your haunt is only as good as the blood (actors) and the Skin (Scenes) and you provide the heart. So without all the elements - you're screwed. Plus I would rather lose some skin over losing blood.... IMO.

Good luck to everyone during this economical slump. It's affecting numerous people - College Graduates to High School Graduates. We can only hope the turn is coming, and from projections we might feel the sigh of relief by June 2010.

Mike Goff
07-14-2009, 03:51 PM
I have known many successful people. I myself have had my moments. When you break it down to the lowest common denominator, success can be defined with one word, tenacity. I would bet a great deal of money that anyone who has experienced extraordinary success, can tell you all kinds of stories about how at some time or another they were faced with a problem that seemed impossible to overcome. They applied themselves, used all available resources to come up with a plan, and excecuted that plan with the tenacity of a Spartan warrior. They do not except defeat, no matter what it takes.

Successful people see hardship as opportunity. Sometimes its the kick in the pants that you need to pursue your dreams.

I whole heartedly agree, that the system is full of obstacles, and ways of keeping your average middle class worker enslaved to the, paycheck to paycheck lifestyle. More govt. interference is not the answer. It is thier perversion of the free market system that has made it this way. I could easily talk all day about the bureacratic obstacle course that a person must run just to open a business.

I lack the communication skills to lead our country back to freedom and prosperity, but maybe I can persuade someone who is currently unemployed to view this as an opportunity to pursue thier dreams. You can do it, but you had better have thick skin, because here comes a whole lot of smack in the face facts.

Don't talk about working 70 hours a week to make ends meet. That doesn't impress anyone, and will not invoke sympathy. Everyone has done that at some point. When you work 70 hours straight without sleep, you will begin to understand what tenacity means, when you develop carpal tunnel syndrome in both arms, you will appreciate the price of success. When you are a 1/4 of a million dollars in debt you will have intimate knowledge of risk. Once you know these things, you will will be embarrassed and ashamed of any prior bashing of the man, and you will have a new found reverence for those who have paved the way for your industry. Like most successful people you will more than likely sit back in utter shock while others criticize you for being successful and for wanting to keep what you have earned. It is all but impossible to explain to someone, what it takes to get there, because it has taken you most of your life to learn it yourself.

There is no ladder of success to climb, it's a straight up climb on a rocky cliff with an unforgiving fall if you screw up.

It can be done in spite of all these obstacles, it just gets harder as we slip into socialism. My dad once told me that if you want to change your standard of living you have to do something drastic. I have applied this advice many times, and each time it has served me well.

As for the increase in wages, we will deal with it and find a way to overcome it. Other haunts will not fair so well and we will absorb thier resources as a result.

My point stands, this is my business, on my property. I have paid a terrible price to build it, both physically and financially. It infuriates me that someone else is going tell me how much to pay my employees, even if paying them more will help me in the long run. It's not about finances, it's about freedom.

For the record, we employ just over 100 people, and our turnover rate averages about 8%. We must be doing something right, but if I wanted to do it wrong it should be my choice.

Mad Wax Sculptor
07-14-2009, 04:34 PM
Im not going to name any names but I have seen a few haunts that have paid $10 an hr and even cattered meals and water. This created a creat loyalty to the haunt and made a tremendouse impact on actors and their performances. However they closed shortly after doing on a few seasons as they had no profits and couldnt legitimize the efforts and risks. It can be done but its not realistic especially now.

Jim Warfield
07-14-2009, 08:28 PM
Don't you just cringe when you hear some one say:"I could have done that!" As they point to your hard earned success?
"Then why didn't you?" Needs to be said as you look them right in the eye from a short distance.
(Here comes excuse number 387!)
"I could have made that costume!" I heard as I was being handed the $300.00 first place cash prize for my Grabstein Feinsmukker costume 26? years ago.
The young punk saying this, oozing with jealously was not even compeating in the costume contest and of course probably never hand-stitched tire inner tubes together in his life, which comprised much of my costume, as well as the numerous hours of painting on layer after layer of latex to build up the surface.....like the old advice:"Consider the source".a bonifide.neophyte.
After my house was off and seeing success a man a few years older than myself sat in a local restaurant and told the owner that he could have done the same thing that I had done here.
I laughed so long and hard! His adult work record had him putting in minimal hours each week and often being led by the nose to repeat the simplest work tasks after being on the same job for ten years! Do these attributes sound like something that would fly when creating a haunted house?
"If "Ifs" and "Buts" were Candy and Nuts, we would all have a Merry Christmas!"
(A very old saying)
If someone was paying me just min. wage for all of the incredible hours I have put forth to make my house happen....WOW! $$$$$$!!!!

JamBam
07-15-2009, 05:59 AM
Mr Goff,
You are right with that post. There are lots of books on success, but they write about an exact set of circumstances that may never present themselves again. So, it is about perservering on, finding ways to get around or overcome whatever gets in your way. It is about being able to see over the horizon ahead of the rest of the bunch and sometimes even making the road that leads over that horizon for everyone else to follow.

It is not about one party or the other and their policies because they all forget their reasons and promises as soon as they get to the elected office they hold. They all claim there is too much government and then proceed to allow every lobbyist buy their vote and forget the constituents' desire for less.

Larry is very successful and from what he has told us about his younger days, your comments could definetly describe his success story. He has accomplished a ton and makes a lot of money.

Mike Goff
07-15-2009, 07:34 AM
There are many pieces to the puzzle, I broke it down to what I believe to be the lowest common denominator. I don't believe that any magical set of circumstances is a huge factor in anything. I believe that there is always opportunity, you have to learn how to recognize it. Like you said it's looking over the horizon. When you get into that frame of thought, and once you have had some experience at success and failure, you get better at it.

An important element to recognizing opportunity is good sound judgement. Good sound judgement is clouded by a sense of entitlement. We are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights, that are amoung these are, Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (property, but that's another thread). No one is entitled to a certain wage. To guarantee this , infringes on someone elses rights. When hired help is in high demand, wages will naturally go up, when it is not, it will by nature, go down. To artificially impose a set wage, creates an imbalance and the unintended consequence is more unemployment.

One other bit of info that I think is worth sharing is the acronym JJ-DIDTIEBUCKLE
I learned this in the Marine Corps.

Simply put these are 14 traits to live by, and to lead by. When mastered you can accomplish anything and your employees will crawl through hell as long as you are willing to lead the way.

Judgement
Justice
Decisiveness
Integrety
Dependability
Tact
Inititiave
Entheusiasm
Bearing
Unselfishness
Courage
Knowledge
Loyalty
Endurance

Sorry about the spelling, I'm in a hurry to work on the haunt

jack
07-15-2009, 08:14 AM
What is the correct minimum wage/price for goods services?

What the market will bear.

Why pay 7.50 an hour when you can get an entire workforce for $1 a day? A workforce for whom $1 a day is a 'better than living wage'?

We lost fair market value when we started mandating a minimum wage.

Sort of.

Whatever 'minimum' the wage is set at, be it $1 or $100 an hour, that amount will become 'what the market will bear' for the least skilled, newest, and most desperate workers. And prices will shift accordingly.

While many sectors of the economy can adapt, some can't. Assets held as cash lose value, past debt shrinks--but that undermines future credit.

It's inflation, plain and simple.

No amount of raising the minimum wage will keep that wage from being a crap wage.

So why do it?

Because it LOOKS good. "Here, I voted to raise your hourly wage by $2".

The ramifications of devaluing the currency don't enter into it. But they are far reaching--and they slam into the very people that the minimum wage was raised to help with far more damage than anyone else.

Twin Locusts
07-15-2009, 08:18 AM
What is the correct minimum wage/price for goods services?

What the market will bear.

Why pay 7.50 an hour when you can get an entire workforce for $1 a day? A workforce for whom $1 a day is a 'better than living wage'?

We lost fair market value when we started mandating a minimum wage.

Sort of.

Whatever 'minimum' the wage is set at, be it $1 or $100 an hour, that amount will become 'what the market will bear' for the least skilled, newest, and most desperate workers. And prices will shift accordingly.

While many sectors of the economy can adapt, some can't. Assets held as cash lose value, past debt shrinks--but that undermines future credit.

It's inflation, plain and simple.

No amount of raising the minimum wage will keep that wage from being a crap wage.

So why do it?

Because it LOOKS good. "Here, I voted to raise your hourly wage by $2".

The ramifications of devaluing the currency don't enter into it. But they are far reaching--and they slam into the very people that the minimum wage was raised to help with far more damage than anyone else.

Well put. How can a concept as simple as Market Value be so hard for people to grasp? The American Public School System.

Darkangel
07-15-2009, 08:21 AM
Good job Brett good luck with finishing up your degree. Larry, did you go or finish college? Just curious, if so what did you major in? It's interesting to learn where we all got our start before haunting.

Education is the key and now a days a bachelor's degree only gets you in the door you need more to move up the ladder.