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Ken Spriggs
01-30-2007, 08:36 AM
Well with almost everyone of our banners running up at this time of the year.....we did some checking on where our hits came from.

I remember not to long ago Hauntedillinois.com wanted banners on both sites...Hauntworld and Hauntedhouse.com....he is not a haunt...so they will not allow him a banner.

It is funny that Hauntedillinois.com gave us more than Hauntworld

http://www.hauntedillinois.com/eventlisting.php
http://www.hauntedhouse.com/search/Haunted_Attraction_Directory/...
http://www.hauntedhousechicago.com/displayhaunt.php
http://www.hauntedhouseonline.com/find_haunts.cfm

These were the top 4 refers to our site for October

http://www.hauntedillinois.com/eventlisting.php
http://www.hauntedhouse.com/search/Haunted_Attraction_Directory/...
http://www.hauntedhouseonline.com/find_haunts.cfm
http://www.hauntedillinois.com/reviews/2005dreamreapers.php

These were the top 4 for September

imax
01-30-2007, 09:13 AM
Yeah, we don't get much traffic from hauntworld either. In October it was the 20th referrer with only 30 click throughs.

Oh well.

-- I

Jonathan
01-30-2007, 09:46 AM
In HW defense, it all depends on location and where people are looking for haunts.

Like in IL, they have a search site, same as WI, Ohio etc. Those places will direct more traffic to those state's residents because they have the resource. Where as I believe HW gets traffic for those areas that don't have a good haunt search site for their state or area.

IMO, I may be wrong, have been before. But that's my thought.

Jim Warfield
01-30-2007, 10:10 AM
..and The Ravens Grin gets business almost every week of the year from Haunted Illinois.com
How do I know this?
I ask the people when they arrive how they found out about me.
Some little kid could be "Clicking" all day long (some little kid from a third-world country who will NEVER come here) but when they are standing there looking at me with money in their hand.......Then I KNOW!

Jim Warfield
01-31-2007, 12:26 AM
Ken, you might have been too busy to notice in October, but at least to my computer, Hauntworld seemed to be down alot then.
Too many monkeys in the same tree after the same banana and the tree falls over.
" Doctors try to remove a banana from a monkey's BLEEP!"
Film at 11!

drfrightner
01-31-2007, 12:39 AM
Ken,

Let me respond to you that will hopefully educate you, enlighten you, and maybe make you feel like an idiot I don’t know. LOL

1) You do NOT have a listing on our website. I informed your partner last year at TW how to do this, I sent you several emails telling you this even as late as last August when you sent over your banner.

Listing probably make up 50 to 60% of all views and traffic, for whatever reason NO ONE at Dreamreapers EVER bothered to create one. Somehow this is my fault I’m sure… but when I only send out emails, make posts, phone calls and everything else you’re the only one to blame. If you go RIGHT NOW to www.hauntedhouseonline.com you will see THERE IS NO LISTING for Dreamreapers what so ever…

2) The ONLY connection you have what so ever to Hauntworld.com is your banner, which I explained to your partner a couple days ago needs improvement. All it says is “DREAMREAPERS” it doesn’t say Chicago’s Best Haunt, Click Here, it doesn’t even say it’s a haunted house. I informed him you really need to create a new banner, that atleast says “Located in Chicago, or Chicago’s Best Haunted House CLICK HERE”

Do you assume everyone knows what DreamREapers is and where it is located? Add this to your banner for better results. People come to our site to find haunts, and every listing tells the customer what area you are located in that state. Considering Dreamreapers NEITHER had a listing or banner stating location someone might assume you’re located in East St. Louis for that matter.

3) Hauntworld.com does not have a haunt directory that on the site really… we have the old one but its hard to find as we do not promote it any longer. Maybe you didn’t read the post, but starting in March the haunt directory will NO BE LOCATED ON Hauntworld.com, therefore you will start seeing HITS COME FROM HAUNTWORLD.com not our 50 other sites.

Additionally traffic from our network comes from several different website including: HauntedHouses.com, HauntedAttractions.com, Hauntfinder.com, Halloweenhauntedhouse.com, HauntedHouses.us, an old Hauntworld directory, FindHauntedHouses.com, and HauntedHouseonline.com

When you measure what we’ve sent you you must TRACK all of these sites and a few more I put out there… we have the ability with our very sophisticated haunt directory to build the site in one location then to have that information pulled for other website. IN other words if you go to www.HauntedHouses.com you will see what appears to be OUR haunt directory because IT IS OURS…however that site is pulling the info, the correct info, however it shows a hauntedhouse.com link in the URL box. Tricky, cool and still coming from us even if the URL in your site stats don’t show it. Same for all the other sites and the 100 others I have on the web that you probably don’t even know about.

4) Getting back to the listings, there are haunts in YOUR state with over 7,000 VIEW my friend, the guy you love to hate JIM UPCHURCH even has 3,500 and he’s at the bottom of the page. Views are a mixture of hits on your banner combined with whatever hits go into your listing… as stated you do not have a listing. YOUR FAULT.

5) As for hauntedillinois and hauntedchicago… wow Ken no mystery there. Most people finding those sites find them through search engines, just like most people find Hauntworld or HauntedHouse.com. Those sites are dedicated to your state, hence probably are more effective. That’s great!!! However Hauntworld has sent some haunts as many as 18,000 view, ask BEN ARMSTRONG he’ll tell ya! Hauntworld.com’s system sent me over 6,000 DIRECT HITS and over 15,000 views all combined. It doesn’t really matter who sent you the most, what matters is what you pay for those hits, and how many customers or tickets did you sell. What you paid for the banner for my site, or any other was GROSSLY underpriced. Go to google they charge about 50 cents per click through…If I charged you that you’d owe me thousands. As marketing on the net grows you will be marketing in more and more places and paying for every inch of it. Get use to it because it’s the future.



Lastly, as for being your THIRD top sender of TRAFFIC…WOW I’m AMAZED AND IMPRESSED!!!! SO SHOULD YOU BE… you had a banner that didn’t tell a potential customer what you are, where you are, not one word but Dreamreapers, and you had NO listing ANYWHERE ON OUR SITE and we still send you traffic. While you are PLASTERED UP AND DOWN on HauntedIllinois.com and nothing but your name on our site.

Do the math Ken! You have a lot to learn about marketing on the web and I hope that you appreciate the 15 minutes I took to help you in the future with this post.

Not trying to be sarcastic but SERIOUSLY… come to my seminar at TW you will LEARN MORE THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE!

SERIOUSLY!!!!

Larry Kirchner

Jim Warfield
01-31-2007, 12:42 AM
"Traffic " doesn't mind being sent on a longer route, it might even be the scenic route they didn't know about, but "Traffic" does not like being directed into a solid brick wall at 150 miles and hour!

drfrightner
01-31-2007, 12:59 AM
IMAX,

Your profile had over 3,400 views, thats a TON for your state.

The actual log for your site stats would have show up as 10 or more different sites...

We have the ability to take the data on findhauntedhouses.com and put it on someone elses website, it will appear its that sites information but its NOT. Its coming from Hauntworld's Network but it won't show up at Hauntworld.

Your profile has over 3,400 view man thats a TON and you didn't pay a dime... you should be happy as a peach!

Larry

drfrightner
01-31-2007, 01:10 AM
For everyone else...if you didn't know it Hauntworld doesn't really have a haunt directory anymore, and we don't promote the old one. You will NOT see site stats, or many that will say "Hauntworld'.

So don't look for Hauntworld look for our other sites, but not Hauntworld.

Starting next year Hauntworld will have its own directory again!!!

By the TW show will have a directory again!!!!

Hauntworld has been refering traffic over to sites like HauntedHouses.us, FindhauntedHouses.com, HauntedHouseOnline.com and so on and so forth.

That will all end in March.

Larry

drfrightner
01-31-2007, 04:24 AM
Jim,

This post is to you...

Yes you're correct Hauntworld CRASHED A LOT IN OCTOBER.

WHY?

TOO MUCH TRAFFIC... PROBABLY TWICE, MAYBE THREE TIMES what HauntedHouse.com and HauntedIllinois.com and all those other sites Ken mentioned COMBINED.

NEVER EVER in my life had I seen so much traffic, I never expected it, never assumed it, I never knew USA TODAY was going to put Hauntworld.com on the cover of its life section, I never knew YAHOO.com was going to list Hautnworld.com as the best place to find haunts on its FRONT PAGE....

THIS OVERWHELMED MY SERVER... I couldn't fix it fast enough.

WE HAD OVER 100,000 requests in one hour in one day, and it crashed my site for THREE days...

On Halloween over 200,000 people tried to access the site that day as well which kept crashing the site.

In 2006 the most we ever had in one day was 70,000 people...now try over that in one hour. I didn't have the server for that kind of traffic... a server like that costs over 300 to 400 a month.

Now I have to ante up the site is too popular in that month, more than three million people tried to request the site and only half that could access the site due to server.

NOW I'm moving the site to a dual processor site, with TWICE the speed, and something like 6 times the capacity.

This will cost me folks!!!

I'm sorry it crashed I didn't want that I can tell you that.

Larry

imax
01-31-2007, 09:44 AM
Additionally traffic from our network comes from several different website including: HauntedHouses.com, HauntedAttractions.com, Hauntfinder.com, Halloweenhauntedhouse.com, HauntedHouses.us, an old Hauntworld directory, FindHauntedHouses.com, and HauntedHouseonline.com

When you measure what we’ve sent you you must TRACK all of these sites and a few more I put out there…

HauntedHouses.com = 0 (no referrals)
HauntedAttractions.com = 0 (no referrals)
Hauntfinder.com = 0 (no referrals)
Halloweenhauntedhouse.com = 0 (no referrals)
HauntedHouses.us = 52nd in list, 6 total referrers
FindHauntedHouses.com = 56th in list, 6 total referrers
HauntedHouseonline.com = 2nd in list, with 693 total referrers

So, of all the domains you provided above, only hauntedhouseonline.com is of any value (FYI, Hauntworld is 20th), and being 2nd on the list is nothing to snuff at, but consider that our top referrer gives us 6 - 7 thousand hits in October alone, there's some catching up to be done.

Larry, you're killing yourself here. Why are you so domain happy? 100's of others? Jesus, your making us do your market research instead of you telling us (your customers) exactly what we need to know. I don't understand why brand building for you is such a difficult thing? What's the advantage to 100's of domains that do the same thing, besides confusing your customers (us) and our customers (the people who try to find us)?




Your profile had over 3,400 views, thats a TON for your state.


I assume that is total for all the years we have been listed with your sites... not just october, because we don't see it in our logs. Remember, WE have to see the result, we can't just trust numbers your site comes up with. We don't run an ad in a local paper and trust that 10,000 people will now be our customers because that's the number that was printed. We only count what we can actually track, and that is the number of visits we get.

And, since it's a text-based (A href) link, robots (eg, googlebot) crawl it... which DOES NOT TRANSLATE TO VALID TRAFFIC WITH MOST STATS APPLICATIONS (They throw away bot traffic). I really don't care if googlebot has been to our site 2500 times, googlebot doesn't buy tickets.

Want to make the stats more valuable to us?

- Provide a chart of month/year that shows the traffic each month. This can even be made available to the record owner only via the login.

- Make the link so it's form based so googlebot doesn't crawl it (I know, this will make your site *seem* a lot less valuable, but trust me, this will be better since it is REAL data instead of complete garbage!)


I'm not trying to pick on you Larry, I want to help make the site more valuable for everyone! I really think you are on the right track, but there are some pretty easy things that can be done to really increase the value of the site (start by making it just one site!), if you would just start listening to your customers instead of telling us we are all idiots (I *REALLY* don't understand why you do that).

-- I

MMManiac
01-31-2007, 01:07 PM
Although Ken what a nice side business that could be!

Way to speak your mind and thoughts... That's what is going to make the haunt industry stronger and better then ever!

Sean

Steve Verdino
01-31-2007, 01:42 PM
Oh and a little side note......if i have the banner say dream reapers
and it is in a haunted house listing......it certainly isn't a strip club.

LOL.. that's pretty funny. I'm getting scary images of a Dream Reapers strip club. SatainiClause doing a chip 'n' dales dance. Frightening!!

drfrightner
01-31-2007, 02:14 PM
IMAX,

Are you looking at last month stats, you know October was several months ago. LOL For example... you say HauntedHouses.com sent you NO refers that is impossible!!!! That site had over a half million visits in October, that would be impossible!!!! That site gets a lot of traffic...I looked in my site stats and found dozens.

But you take a look at what I'm saying you'll see that we're putting EVERYTHING on Hauntworld again. Coming this March it will all be back at HOME BASE!

But I looked at your profile you have a lot of views. I'm not sure if you're looking at your site stats correctly. Its very confusing thing to figure out I myself can't understand it most of the time.

Unless I didn't look up the right haunt. What is the name of your haunted house? Or rather what is the name of your listing?

Larry

imax
01-31-2007, 02:21 PM
Yes, Larry, I'm reading my stats correctly. I'm even looking at October 2006, not October 2007!

I've been involved in internet technologies for over a decade, and have extensive knowledge of nearly every aspect of it. I know how to read logs. I've been providing hosting, development and programming services since 1998, including interpretation of site statistics for the majority of my clients.

Just because your site gets lots of traffic, doesn't mean it gets sent my way, even with a listing, it is possible. And, with all the domain flooding you do, it's even probable.

I'm excited to see everything back on Hauntworld. It makes more sense than anything you've been doing with all these domains.

-- I

imax
01-31-2007, 02:24 PM
I just visited HauntedHouses.com. I've never been there before.

I did find out why there are no referrals, though. Our listing points back to hauntworld! There is no direct link to us from hauntedhouses.com!

And, to top it off, when I try to click on through to us, I get a "Bad Gateway" error from hauntworld.com.

So, just another example of why your domain flooding is killing you. There's no possible way for me to tell that any of the auxiliary sites are working, because they don't link to me!

-- I

drfrightner
01-31-2007, 02:30 PM
imax,

What was your haunt listed as, what is the haunt name and what state are you in I was assuming IOWA.

Just FYI... Hauntworld.com had over 1.6 million successful visits, and probably about double that while it was crashed.

Yahoo.com, About.com and USATODAY.com told people to visit the site to find haunted houses. We have great search engine placement and the stats you're saying just don't seem possible.

One thing you must remember that hits will vary from state to state...

Iowa is a VERY small state, while Ohio is much bigger.

Doing business in Iowa is cheaper so your costs to operate are much much lower... I've talked to people in some small states who do very well claim to make more money per person than any state in USA.

Marketing costs, locations, ect are cheaper.

how did you haunt do?

As for the traffic, I tracked and I can tell you I was getting on average over 200 hits a DAY from the site. Some days more some days less.

I will admit that Hauntedhouse.com sent me a lot of traffic as well. HauntedHouse.com and Hauntworld Network was my two biggest.

Horrorfind hardly any but some. Outside of that it was odds and ends here and there. Most of my traffic came straight into the site due to my direct marketing in my market.

One very successful thing I did to gain traffic was marketing DIRECT on myspace profiles...that sent me about 12,000 visits. That cost me about $5000.00 but I put my ads on users profiles, and it really worked.

drfrightner
01-31-2007, 02:34 PM
IMAX

I went to the site and you're correct...I don't know what the F*CK is going on... everything got screwed up in that crash of the site. I thought it was all working there. Damit...I'm telling you this site has got out of control to big and its getting to be too much work.

AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! !!


I will check into it right away!

Larry

imax
01-31-2007, 02:44 PM
Yeah, we are in Iowa, Frightmare Forest. I suspect you were already looking at the correct profile. We do very well in our market... although I wouldn't say operating costs are low, being an outdoor attraction, I think they are higher than if we did an indoor haunt, especially due to the amount of weather protection and security measures we have to take.

I should mention that I only count unique visitors in our web stats. If someone visits multiple times in a month, those are not counted.

It's pretty easy to see why some of your sites resulted in zero traffic referrals to me, they simply don't like to me! I have high hopes for the new incarnation of your listings.

Also, I really don't give a diddly-squat about how many visitors your site gets in whole. I'm more interested in what the listings do for ME ;-) I realize that more traffic to you should result in more traffic for me, but that's not always the case.

A couple more things to consider changing:

- Get rid of all the flash components on these sites. They don't provide any value at all, and since some of them are essential to navigation, it's hell on people with poor connections/computers/or flaky flash installs. This may also be the result of your server problems. Use code to make the site prettier, not tons of graphics and unnecessary binary modules. Your site will load faster, with less bandwidth and ultimately be able to handle MORE VISITORS for LESS MONEY coming out of your pockets.

- 5 miles is a very poor default value for your zip code search. Searching for our haunt in our official zip code doesn't even yield a result. Try upping the default to 15 miles. More results the first time = less time people have to keep getting page views off your server to find what they are looking for = less bandwidth = less $$$ you spend = more service to your visitors. OR, alternately, fix your code so if it gets zero results, it immediately ups the mileage radius and re-issues the query. Same result.

geez, why am I helping you with this?

-- I

imax
01-31-2007, 03:09 PM
I just noticed that hauntedhouseonline.com doesn't seem to have all the flash stuff anymore, thank god (except for that nightmare of the state map). It's still pretty graphics heavy, though.

To illustrate my point, the main page of hauntedhouseonline.com is 416 Kb in size... of which 379Kb are images, and this doesn't even include the size of the flash element.

1.6 million visitors X 416Kb = 665600000Kb = 79.34GB of data, JUST for the main page of the website. Ouch. Double ouch, considering this doesn't even include that flash animation in the calculation.

Now, if you could reduce the image content of the main page, even down to 100Kb, for a total of 137Kb (which is still huge, but pretty close to what frightmareforest.com is), you are looking at 26.1GB of data.

If you pay by the gig, surely you can see how this would save in costs, speed up the website, and require less heavy iron for the servers.

-- I

Speculo
01-31-2007, 04:43 PM
Haunted house online (Hauntworld) sent us an amazing amount of traffic. Personally I think all of these listing sites are helpful.... any way to take some of the weight and expense off of traditional advertising (Radio, Print, etc) is helpful, thats for sure!

Thanks!

Ben Armstrong
NETHERWORLD

Ken Spriggs
01-31-2007, 07:47 PM
Yes I agree Ben
We buy advertising in both magazines (Hauntworld and Haunted Attraction)
We buy advertising on almost every website we can.
We buy radio newspaper, millions of flyers everywhere (easy to do with 100 actors and staff).
We are on almost every newspaper throughout the month of October
Heck I made the front page of the Chicago Tribune

If we made a mistake, we made a mistake.
There was a lack of communication in our 4 owners on the fact that a banner was not good enough.....so what
The money wasn't an issue that we spent, actually I consider it a cheap lesson learned.

I in no way said anything bad in my post and wonder why I am the bad guy.

Jim Warfield
01-31-2007, 08:30 PM
Awhile ago when we raised admision to $12 I travelled around plucking brochures from various racks because they had the old admission price on them.
Seems to me that brochures have become "Dead Meat"?
The state tourist agency for this area didn't even ask for any brochures last fall, previously they had a program of mailing out packets to formal inquirys for local information and it seemed like a usefull program to stimulate visits. I guess the computer screen has replaced people mailing or picking up brochures?