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Thread: Indiana Fire Marshal holds off enforcing sprinkers....

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  1. Default discussion 
    #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Huntington, IN
    Posts
    462
    Larry,
    Your fortunate that the lemp tunnels has sprinklers and alarms. The stuff you install is what will burn in a disaster and the smoke is what is deadly.

    Don't get me worng here, I do believe that sprinklers are the most effective for putting out fires. In most fires, though, the smoke detectors and fire alarm will provide much earlier detection of any fire. We already have smoke detectors that are all wired together throughout the event. If one goes off, they all alarm. They are tested by the state inspector every year to make sure they do work. I am confident that we could evacuate everyone out of the whole haunt in 30-45 seconds.

    If you read the first thread you will find that it is the whole state of Indiana that this was mentioned about. Our city inspector usually is with the state inspector and lets the state rules be the authority. I did talk to the city inspector when I was preparing the variance application and he was willing to write a letter of support for the variance. The Indiana Fire Marshal is the authority here. He has more training than you or I and is the authority for the WHOLE state.

    If you also read my last thread you will find that there are some plans to continue to step up what we do already and more.

    The fact that I am happy that our haunt and others in Indiana may continue to operate is genuine for the point of being able to stay in business. I am sure you are happy when you are able to avoid such things or not have to spend a lot of money on something. Don't mistake that in any case that I am not concerned for the safety of my staff or customers.
    .
    .
    .
    Brett Molitor (aka ~ JamBam) Member of HAA

    Haunted Hotel-13th Floor (est by Huntington Jaycees in 1968 8) )
    Longest running Haunted House in the WORLD!!

    Haunted Cave, Fort Wayne Indiana


    www.HauntedHuntington.com

    www.facebook.com/hauntedhotel

    www.facebook.com/hauntedcave


     

  2. Default Thanks 
    #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    66
    Thank you Larry and thank you Mindtumor.
    In my humble opinion, this would be a great "rule" or "bylaw" (for lack of better words) that an Association within the haunted attraction industry should set forth.
     

  3. Default  
    #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Westminster Ohio - population 665
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    286
    I, like many others, am in a similar situation as Brett. My area of the country does not have a large enough population to support a super expensive Haunted house. The nearest town is 10 miles away with a population of 30,000. This is a very blue collar community that has fallen on hard times. There is no way that anyone would pay the ticket prices that you find in the large cities. I believe that I could move my show to a larger populated area and probably make a much more prosperous life for myself. The fact is, I am living my version of the American dream. I live on a farm, in a community that I love. I can look out of my kitchen window and see deer, turkey, fox, coyote, and sometimes large birds of prey. My daughter can play outside without fear of perverts and gangs. She can ride her ATV anytime she likes. (Yes, Hall monitors, I make her wear a helmet!) On a side note, I think that there is a greater chance of someone being killed by a gang member in the parking lot of the Darkness, than there is a chance of someone being killed in my haunted house.
    I cannot and will not live in, or commute to a large city.

    The second aspect of this dilemna is that country people like haunted houses too. Why should they have to drive for hours to attend a haunted house. I believe that by the time October rolls around, gas will exceed $5 per gallon.
    So why do we cheer for Bretts victory? It buys him time. It reassures a States right to make it's own decisions.

    Many of the people on Hauntworld remind me of a mother jumping on the chance to judge another mother, based on her parenting skills. I think that everyone has their own idea of what is acceptable, and anyone who does not fit into their idea of right and wrong is inferior, and it makes them feel empowered to judge.

    I seriously doubt that many of the largest haunts in America started with a sprinkler system. So what are you guys saying? Are you saying that there was a narrow window to get into the Haunted House business, and if you haven't built up your show to the point that you can afford a sprinkler system that's just too bad, you missed your window? If that is what you mean, please say so. It will clarify the whole conversation.

    I have no problem, whatsoever, with there being a rule or bylaw that you must have a sprinkler system to be a member of an organization. I have no problem with the existance of haunted organizations as long as they don't represent themselves as speaking on the behalf of all haunted house owners. I speak on my own behalf.

    Larry has said that he doesn't think that all haunted houses need a sprinkler system. On this, we agree. I do believe more clarification is needed.

    Let's analyze my show, I will be the guinea pig.

    My largest haunted house is 4800 square feet. There are 7 emergency exits. The longest distance from any given point to an exit is 42 feet. My occupancy allowed by the great State of Ohio is 35 people at any given time, this does include actors. There are 8 10 pound abc fire extinguishers and a fire watch. The fire watch (who I pay to be there) is a member of the volunteer fire dept. that is stationed 2.5 miles away, he is also a certified inspector, a certified fire alarm installer, and an EMT.
    There is a 3 acre pond on the premises. Every 3 years the entire maze is treated with flame retardant chemicals. There is enough emergancy lighting that one could easily read a book anywhere in the building. (I know for a fact that this can't be said about the mega haunts that I have toured during a so called lights on tour) The fire alarm automatically shuts off all effects and makes an announcement to get the hell out. My staff is trained to clear the building on their way out and to not allow any one but myself back into the building until I and I alone have called all clear. If the alarm goes off, I make a final sweep of the entire building.

    My building official, my fire chief, my state fire marshal and my insurance agent (which happens to be my fire chief, small town....) are all comfortable with our operation.

    I would like to again make the point that local officials are more than competant to enforce existing law and a zero tolerance policy concerning sprinkler systems is not needed and an abomination to freedom and common sense.
     

  4. Default  
    #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Davison, Michigan
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    1,751
    Whether you are small or not, I'm surprised people would be so happy this. I would not do a haunt before I would do one in non sprinkled building. I was dirt poor when I started out and still managed to meet this requirement. But if you are allowed not too, whatever. But don't try and tell us all being small makes it too tough to do this. Difficult yeah, but completely possible.
    Jared Layman
     

  5. Default  
    #25
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    Jul 2008
    Location
    Westminster Ohio - population 665
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    286
    When I built this haunted house, the law stated that haunted houses had to have sprinklers. The law also allowed for a varience on the sprinkler system If #1 the total square footage was less than 5000 square feet. #2 there was an emergency exit within 50 feet no matter where you were at. #3 You have to be able to get a fire truck to the building on all four sides. #4 the official having jurisdiction and the local fire chief both have to agree to it.

    I believe that the law has since been changed to include buildings up to 10,000 square feet.

    I would also like to point out that in Ohio, they do not allow you to use multiple buildings that are 20 feet apart. They are very clear that you must allow access for a fire truck.
    I supose that I could say that Creepyworld does not comply with Ohio code. Good thing for Larry that it doesn't have to. That would really suck if someone 3 states away could shut him down.
     

  6. Default  
    #26
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    Nov 2003
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    Davison, Michigan
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    I didn't realize everything had to always go back to what Larry is doing or getting away with.

    Anyway, if you don't have to have them, cool I guess. My point is its not impossible to start out with low funds and not have a sprinkler system. You might not be able to build on a farm but you most certainly can do a haunt.
    Jared Layman
     

  7. Default  
    #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Westminster Ohio - population 665
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    286
    Quote Originally Posted by mindtumor View Post
    Whether you are small or not, I'm surprised people would be so happy this. I would not do a haunt before I would do one in non sprinkled building. I was dirt poor when I started out and still managed to meet this requirement. But if you are allowed not too, whatever. But don't try and tell us all being small makes it too tough to do this. Difficult yeah, but completely possible.
    Dude you edited your post as I was answering your question. But anyway, I'm happy because he said that he would have had to shut down without a varience. Nothing is impossible, but there is a huge chance that moving my show to another location would bankrupt me, when in my opinion, and the opinion of my State legislaters, my State fire marshal, my local building official, and my local fire dept. my show is fine. I guess they are not as smart as you.
    Yes, State law does allow me to operate without a sprinkler system. Nobody has to like it. It is what the people of Ohio have decided. Ohio also thinks that it is ok to ride a motorcycle without a helmet, and make sure you are sitting down.... They allow us to carry guns. You can even buy a machine gun in Ohio. Ohio also has some laws that I don't agree with, like the smoking ban, but they are our laws, they came from legislaters that I had an opportunity to vote for.

    My point is, different states have different ideas of what is acceptable. They are populated by different people. If we were all lumped together as the United States, singular not plural, the only people who would have a say so are people in the most populated areas. The fate of the whole country would be determined by California and New York. I know that many would like that, but this country boy is an individual with individual God given rights. I am only being consistant in my beliefs that power should not be centralized.

    We all agree that haunted houses should be safe, we just have a different idea of what safe is.
     

  8. Default  
    #28
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    Nov 2003
    Location
    Davison, Michigan
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    1,751
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Goff View Post
    Dude you edited your post as I was answering your question. But anyway, I'm happy because he said that he would have had to shut down without a varience. Nothing is impossible, but there is a huge chance that moving my show to another location would bankrupt me, when in my opinion, and the opinion of my State legislaters, my State fire marshal, my local building official, and my local fire dept. my show is fine. I guess they are not as smart as you.
    Yes, State law does allow me to operate without a sprinkler system. Nobody has to like it. It is what the people of Ohio have decided. Ohio also thinks that it is ok to ride a motorcycle without a helmet, and make sure you are sitting down.... They allow us to carry guns. You can even buy a machine gun in Ohio. Ohio also has some laws that I don't agree with, like the smoking ban, but they are our laws, they came from legislaters that I had an opportunity to vote for.

    My point is, different states have different ideas of what is acceptable. They are populated by different people. If we were all lumped together as the United States, singular not plural, the only people who would have a say so are people in the most populated areas. The fate of the whole country would be determined by California and New York. I know that many would like that, but this country boy is an individual with individual God given rights. I am only being consistant in my beliefs that power should not be centralized.

    We all agree that haunted houses should be safe, we just have a different idea of what safe is.
    Where did I say I was smarter than the local officials? I said if you don't have to have them, whatever. Then in the second post I said good for you for not having to have them? Then I said its not impossible to be small and on a small budget to have a sprinker system. None of that was negative but hey if thats how you want to take that go ahead. Congrats on not having to wear a helmet and being able to carry a gun, too. I am glad you decided to share that with me.

    I wonder if Larry can carry a gun, after all it all comes back to him right?
    Jared Layman
     

  9. Default My apologies 
    #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Westminster Ohio - population 665
    Posts
    286
    The last thing that I want to do is to take this to a negative place. This issue is far more important than my personal feelings or yours for that matter. My comment about you being smarter than them was a response to the sarcasim that was obviously evident somewhere between your edited posts. Larry jumped into this conversation just as you and I did and is subject to scrutiny just as you and I are. Something about stones and a glass house, can't quite remember.
    I think that Larry and I probably agree on more things than we disagree on. I have no desire to prove anyone wrong, I would rather lay out my case and possibly change a few minds on the subject. There is, as a matter of fact, much at stake.

    I was reading somewhere, someone please help me out on this it is a good example. Anyway, I was reading that this guy had invented a table saw that could sense flesh and would automatically shut power to the blade if you got your fingers too close.
    This guy is now lobbying congress to pass a law that all table saws must be equipped with his safety device. The good news is that this is a great invention, the bad news is that it could drive the cost of a table saw to over 1000 dollars.

    There are 2 obvious positions that someone could take. #1 you can't put a price on safety, this device could save countless fingers.
    #2 it's cost prohibitive, this will keep people from buying table saws.

    My position is a little different and probably unpopular as well. I see a guy who is trying to use the system to advance his business. He stands to profit from regulation, just as many large business profit from regulation. I am disgusted that a law maker would even consider the idea that he can tell me what kind of saw that I can buy. (I'm sorry I have this dilusion that I am free) Now if the people of California or Cuba would like to pass this law and make it illegal to sell a Preban configured saw, I will bow out like a gentleman and think to myself damn, just another reason not to live there. However when that fight comes to my state, it's on. I will ademantly oppose any such legislation and I will do my best to reveal the motives of those involved.

    as far as bringing up the motorcycle helmets and guns, the analagy fits and as a bonus, it pisses off control freaks. What's life if you can't have a little fun now and then.
    Last edited by Mike Goff; 04-26-2011 at 11:43 AM.
     

  10. Default Not an issue 
    #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Davison, Michigan
    Posts
    1,751
    There was no sarcasm in the post I edited. It simply asked what state law in Ohio was, not the local law. There was nothing more to it then curiousity. It was asked because the original post was about Indiana and you started talking about Ohio. I was curious what the law was there. There was nothing more to it. When I am being sarcastic, it is blazingly obvious.
    Jared Layman
     

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