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Thread: work on the haunt today here some image

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  1. Default  
    #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Scares View Post
    Again I ask where did he say he was a "professional" for profit haunt?
    That being said, no you do not have to have a hundred thousand in animatronics to be a great haunt! Have we become so jaded that we don't think we can't put on a good show if don't look like Disneyland? We are haunts people and our main job is to scare! If we have good eye candy at the same time that is even better but it is not the whole package. I pride myself on having great detailed sets while my partners main goal is getting that amazing great scare. But I never belittle or put down anyone for what they have be it a small home haunt or a huge professional one. We are all in the same game here. Constructive ideas are great like some have done here, but putting someone down is just not nice.
    When did anyone say animations are scary? They are a distraction and adds production value. Are you saying this haunt here would be scarier than one with animations? Do you think great actors will be working here? Please give one example in the top 25 rated haunts that do not use animations and builds detailed sets? It is no surprise the best haunts with best actors also have great sets and lots of animatronics.

    No one is trying to put mud down but his work is not up to the standards set by this industry over the past few decades. As Howie said it is embarrassing to have it shown on a forum supposedly of pros. To think otherwise is ridiculous.


    DA
     

  2. Default  
    #32
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    Aug 2011
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    This has turned out to be one sensational thread. I have to agree with most of what's been said. I do agree its time we hold ourselves accountable for our haunts and what should be acceptable as a haunt, pro, or otherwise.


    Jake
     

  3. Default  
    #33
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    Jul 2010
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    Personally, I like the Clown Town sign.

    Live YOUR dream, Mud- not someone else's!
    How can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temple of his gods.

    What you put into your mind- you put into your life.


    www.zombietoxin.com
     

  4. Default  
    #34
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    Nov 2008
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    first I think this is a great thread and has spurred great conversation. Im replying back and forth with Jake in order to peel back a few layers and see each others thoughts more completely- not to poke him or start an argument. He is awesome, we just might not agree or feel the same way about things.

    " But McDonald's charges the same price and has the same tasting food in every restaurant, it's not like within McDonalds there is low quality food in one and a less successful one has nasty food. In haunt terms it would show a high level of shows across the board all of a good quality."

    ***Not all haunts are McDonalds, that was my point. We have no standard (and Horray that we dont) Some haunts are Outback's and Appleby's other are more Ruth Chris. Then there are dairy Queensand McDonalds out there. They are all resturants who charge different amounts for their product, and deliver different qualities of experience. It would be absurd for steak houses and four star resturants to be upset that McDonalds exists-or even to claim that they are dragging down the good name of resturants everywhere.

    "In my travels I've found that there used to be more low budget haunts but they are fading out."
    **** I seem to see more popping up, so I guess that is just exposure

    " If you are used to going to elite level haunts in your area you will not be going to pay to see home made bodies and caution tape"
    ****I absolutely would pay to see it, because I love Halloween and haunted houses. I dont see the bigger haunted houses as being scary- I dont think they get a higher fear level from their patrons than a cheaper less decorated haunt. I would rather see a smaller show with great costumes and characters. Which leads me to...

    "you're going to go see Hollywood quality sets. Why wouldn't you?"
    *** No, Im quoting the very wise man Alex Lohmann here "Guests never run out of a haunt and say how great the crown molding was". That is a pretty true statement, unless your audience is haunt owners then it might happen. Haunt owners focus on sets because they have them at their disposal all year and they make nice pictures for marketing. Then they underthink costumes and characters throw a CFX mask in the promo shots and end up with the exact same focal point as a hundred other haunts in their promo shots.


    "If you are able to afford steak and good food why would you still buy potted meat and sardines (unless you happens to love it lol) but if you can do better you will."
    ***You answered yourself better than I could. Some people happen to love the small haunt atmosphere, even perfer it to a large haunt. They have a charm and an appeal that does not make a ton of sense, but it exists.


    "Some people just might not be ready to open a haunt. Some might not have the means financially or the creativity. It used to seem like anyone off the street who loved Halloween could start a haunt and call themselves a pro."
    *** On this you and I agree 100%. I hate that every 15 year old I talk to wants to own their own haunt. I reluctantly own my own haunt. 90% of what I learned about haunting I learned at someone else's haunt while I was a grunt. I did not learn it so I could open my own show- I learned so I could take the knowledge with me and be better at my craft wherever I landed. Working for someone else's haunt is a joy and helps you contribute to the cycle. I think it is an important part of a haunters make up and that step should not be skipped.
    For the record, Mud works at someone else's haunt. He is working on improving the secondary trail that last year had nothing. His heart and spirit are right.

    "Now, having haunts that push it to the next level that will more likely prevent would be haunters who would never strive to own a world class haunt or the fast buck Freddie's who would bring the quality of haunts in that market way down think twice. Not everyone can say "hell I like roller coasters and rides I think I'll build myself and amusement park and open it to the public" so why should that same person do that for our industry?"
    ****Sadly we have a low financial threshold and it looks/is easy to open and run a haunt. To me the most important function of a haunted house is to reflect the style and personality of the owner. If a haunt does that, then it is creatively (not necessarily financially) successful. That does not require a huge amount of cash unless that is what must be said about the owner.


    "The haunt business is and should always be a business now that's how we evolved from cheesy to revolutionary."
    **** I dont necessarily see a ton of revolutionary things in haunted houses over say...the late 80's early 90's. Animatronics...check Silicone masks are new but they are still masks. I dont like throwing the word revolutionary around lightly so others may not agree. Our sophistication has gone up, and our ticket prices are double what they were then- but I dont see a revolution. The world loves cheesy, our customers love cheesy that what sells at walmart and walgreens at Halloween. Im not saying to go that route, but it is hard to curse those that do when that is what mainstream Halloween is. The cheesy will always be a part of Halloween.

    "And if you're not in the position to open a quality show that helps move the industry forward then you should probably just do a home haunt until your lot improves."
    ****No! work for someone else's haunt. You learn more that way. You learn about traffic flow and so many other things that you dont even think about at a home haunt. Get to a pro haunt, help all you can and soak it all in.

    This is a great topic and I love all the curteous responses.
     

  5. Default  
    #35
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    Aug 2011
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    Allen we'll have to agree to disagree because there is no way in hell ill pay to see junk. Also if everyone thinks the big haunts are not scary maybe the public doesn't want to be scared then because the big detailed ones grow and see 10's of thousands of guests with hours to wait just to see. When I was at Knotts those haunts weren't scary but they sure packed them in.

    Look at the Darkness in St. Louis. Do you think they'd be waiting and lining up to see a haunt as pictured if it opened up against the Darkness? No way Allen!

    You're a nice guy and you do a great job of keeping a positive around here. Please don't be offended, but I see a very old school vibe to your thinking and process. I think ANY new school haunter sees House of Torment and 13th Gate as a model and moved away from the do it yourself model.

    Jake
     

  6. Default  
    #36
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    Even the top 25 haunts aren't all that and it is simple to become one, just give the guy who makes the list of 25 top haunts about $5,000 and your on the list.

    What I see here is possibly a small private party and it has not been mentioned there is a mega haunt being produced here. Still this is where the possibilities are developed. Some freinds get together and the topic is researched a bit more and then things happen or they don't and it remains an intresting small private party on private land.

    My next haunt is going to be called Voodoo Hopscotch of death where I "borrow" some chaulk and go nuts on a city street and instead of it just goes 12 hips and skips and you are done it goes on for several blocks while actors do things along the way. Total investment zero. It can happen anywhere spur of the moment even at a public park. It would be created by and enjoyed by freinds that accumulate on some social networking site and any donation recieved is total profit. In fact it is art and a happening and I could get it on TV! For free and have a lot of people chuckle for some period of time.

    That's entertainment.

    So many people have followed the model of you have to go big and have a budget and gone in the hole, gone into debt and completely missed the point of this being fun or entertaining or scary or an enjoyment of life. Enjoying life is not being a consumer and paying some guy who has lots of stuff's advertising budget.

    Now Mudsticky having 5 misspelled words in every sentence really bothers me but, even being experienced and somewhat brilliant, I can't help to have been fascinated over the years how with perceverience and support of family and the commnity lots of people keep going and are loved. It isn't all about money. It can be about sharing an evening and expressing yourself.

    You hear it all the time how even an number of the 25 top haunts are doing it for "the industry". No one is making lots and lots of money that isn't already just survival expenses or already ear marked for some haunt project. People are iving the haunt thing and living pretty damn modestly and all their money goes into the things they have created because it has to as opposed to you want to. So it better be fun and you better have experienced that had nothing and it still worked experience.

    Like it or not there is a 20 or 30 year business cycle and the modest performances of today are what it is going to be in the future and not having anything kind of guys can adapt to economic changes and technology uses a whole lot quicker than some business that has all of their budget devoted to something already.

    I have worked for many of the big names and supposedly successful haunts and when it came time to pay me they could not. So I'm a big advocate of not over extending ones self, not forming vast partnerships where everyone needs their money on some schedule date or it all ends up in court. I'm an advocate of make it yourself if you can, invest in bigger props as you can. But generally any endevor doesn't even get recognized by any location untill it has been around for 15 or 20 years and until then it is not automatic no matter how much is spent or what it looks like and if it doesn't have that spirit of fun and enjoyment, it doesn't last 5 years. Then there is always some life responcibility that has to take prescentant over having a haunt. Basically they quit because it is a lot of work and doesn't make lots of money or they have no help and lots of opposition.


    Another fabulous post from the U.S.Department of Wild Imaginings, now in spectaclar stereo, sponsored by the Adhesives and Sealants Council, suggesting ways to stick things together since the 1800s. Not fabulous in a gay way. Your results may vary. Illinois residents add 8% sales tax. These posts have been made by professional post makers, do not try this type of posting on your own without extensive training, lovely assistants and a trusty clown horn.
     

  7. Default  
    #37
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    Greg if it were as easy as paying $5000 to be on a list then every haunt would be in it! The 13th Gate would be on any list period. I don't get jealous over the big haunts and discredit their accolades because its something we all should strive for. Pay or no pay they are still the top haunts this industry has. Discrediting them is worse than mudsticky's haunts because they are the front line haunts promoted to the public and your potential next customer.


    Jake
     

  8. Default  
    #38
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    Mesquite, TX
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    "Allen we'll have to agree to disagree because there is no way in hell ill pay to see junk."
    ***I dont want you to see junk, I just want to be able to if I would like to see junk lol.

    "Also if everyone thinks the big haunts are not scary maybe the public doesn't want to be scared then because the big detailed ones grow and see 10's of thousands of guests with hours to wait just to see. When I was at Knotts those haunts weren't scary but they sure packed them in."
    ***This is pretty much my point exactly, some people like haunts that are scarier and other like the more produced shows. It takes all kinds.

    "Look at the Darkness in St. Louis. Do you think they'd be waiting and lining up to see a haunt as pictured if it opened up against the Darkness?"
    ****I dont think the photos that we saw were marketing photos from Mud by any means. And yes, I think they would if the price is right. why compare a five dollar show to a $60 show?


    "You're a nice guy and you do a great job of keeping a positive around here. Please don't be offended, but I see a very old school vibe to your thinking and process."
    Great way to preface what you see as an insult lol. I see no issue with old school. I hope as you evolve in the business you realize some simple truths. Expensive and produced with high polish does not mean scary and does not suit all tastes. The secret is that there are no "new school haunters" they just arent ripe yet.

    "I think ANY new school haunter sees House of Torment and 13th Gate as a model and moved away from the do it yourself model."
    ****this is silly, you think they didnt "do it themselves"? I think they would disagree. We all do it ourselves, we are haunters.
    Allen H
     

  9. Default  
    #39
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    So...there is all kinds of creepy places out there you will never know about, be invited to and see on the 25 top haunts list. I know of a few that are kind of folk art that have crashed the 6,000 people and 8,000 people per year and people really dig it!

    Why they dig it is because they came with freinds and it is one of life's memories and not because they all attended some block buster movie in 3D that hollywood told them to go to. Getting into some even lame, strange setting is cool because you have to look around and wonder what everything is and why it is there. Maybe the people are not right and you are in their hog pen to hell and maybe you should be afraid? They aren't quite right, maybe even genuinely and wearing masks made out of paper mache and tin foil and they have weapons and you don't know where you are or how far away your car is. Maybe they are screwing your car up where you will never leave as quick as you would like. You can suggest and demonstrate all sorts of things that do not require an air compressor, sensors, electricity, getting a loan for hundreds of pounds of someone elses latex.

    So is this forum a hot line for only the top 25 haunts and top 100 vendors? Nope. Is it enabling? Maybe, letting someone have a life and some serious life lessons and tremendous emotion and serious laughs, both in doing and in attending.

    See shit like that was never written in any "You too can have a haunt" book or business plan. As things are visited, other people get intrested, even people with money spring up, people sponsor and invest in this enjoyable thing and then guess what you have the experienced educated customer at Transworld 10 years from now or sooner. So screw everyone worried about being thought of in comparison to a trillion dollar theme park. Some of those are pretty lame too and they missed the fundamental point of being wildly enjoyable. They may be inspiring but for the wrong reasons.

    If we are enabling, we should be making sure people can make some money, support themselves and eat. Someone new that is really trying will develop for 20 or 30 years. Now everyone is expecting 30 year achievement right out of the box or don't show up? Really.


    Another fabulous post from the U.S.Department of Wild Imaginings, now in spectaclar stereo, sponsored by the Adhesives and Sealants Council, suggesting ways to stick things together since the 1800s. Not fabulous in a gay way. Your results may vary. Illinois residents add 8% sales tax. These posts have been made by professional post makers, do not try this type of posting on your own without extensive training, lovely assistants and a trusty clown horn.
     

  10. Default  
    #40
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    You have no idea how many full blow sizable yet lame attractions there are that have seen no more than 500 or 800 a year at $10 a pop and they make $5,000 or $10,000 per year and that is total profit. Everything was made from junk and the place it was held at was provided. So if you were a highly enjoyable low impact bottom feeder attraction that made $10,000 a year for 20 years, that's $200,000 you can invest in yourself or it is 10 years of retirement money!

    Or it is how much impact you had by spending that money in your own community helping other people! You know what happens to a community if you take away even $10,000 that became expected every year?

    So much of what is called "industry" is already getting mass quantities of people to do lots and lots not because there is money, because they will learn by doing. They can express themselves, learn skills over time. And skills generally do take time. So where was everyone supporting people when they were trying to learn and were willing to do everything for free or just for the cost of materials? That's real networking, not trading business cards over a beer, go help someone for a day or two for nothing. Don't just be a consumer and a critict. If you are just a consumer and a critict what good do you think your $20 really changes the world or people's lives. Or peoples ability to do things long term.

    I applaud Allen for sending information. Why does it always have to be critism. Why can't it be here are some ideas. Or call me I have some stuff near you that is better than what I'm seeing here. That's how I roll. And long term decades later is pays when you least expect it. Even when you weren't asking.


    Another fabulous post from the U.S.Department of Wild Imaginings, now in spectaclar stereo, sponsored by the Adhesives and Sealants Council, suggesting ways to stick things together since the 1800s. Not fabulous in a gay way. Your results may vary. Illinois residents add 8% sales tax. These posts have been made by professional post makers, do not try this type of posting on your own without extensive training, lovely assistants and a trusty clown horn.
     

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