HauntWorld Home - Forums Home - Live Chat - Find Haunted Houses - Hauntworld Magazine - Haunted House Supplies - America's Best Haunts - Find Vendors
Haunted House News - Haunted Tradeshows - Join Hauntworld Facebook - Hauntworld Twitter - Advertise - Contact Us

Thread: Extreme touching... new direction for the industry?

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 45
  1. Default  
    #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Aberdeen, MD
    Posts
    236
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ Productions View Post
    My suggestion at this point in time... NO extreme attraction should EVER be called a HAUNTED HOUSE...period! We need to put a BIG separation here. It is NOT a haunted house or a haunted house experience. We need to claim that these added attractions are no different that someone bringing in a carnival ride. It's not a haunted house. Hopefully this is a fab that goes away quickly. I agree with the comments that these type of attractions are merely people that can't design a good haunted house. Attitude is...gee you mean I have to actually build rooms that are realistic enough to be believable??? Naw...let's just put them in a black room and grab them!! That THAT takes a lot of creative talent!!!
    I agree!

    2nd food for thought. Zombie Runs. Who would have a zombie run where people are running through mud, being grabbed, chased, and often times injured by zombies attempting to chase them to retrieve their flags. Trudging through frozen water, being electrocuted by props, and running through ice-water trash dumpsters... but everyone seems to be doing zombie runs? I was able to be a part of the very first zombie run for Run For Your Lives in MD a few years ago, and I was amazed at what they were able to get away with. They ran more than 40 ambulance calls for participants getting hurt. (thats all in one day) and they weren't sued. Is there a difference?
    Patrick Barberry
    www.legendsofthefog.com
     

  2. Default  
    #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    1,494
    Patrick,

    The Run For Your Lives mud run in Darlington got away with so much because they didn't bother to file for permits and go through the inspection process. It was a one day event, so they didn't bother to contact the county. Its easy to get away with things like this for a one say event under the radar.

    Regarding what they get away with in PA, we agree there. We are under the biggest microscope in the world in Maryland but you literally cross the border in the land of self inspections, slanted carpeted hallways, crawl spaces, 2 foot wide passages and all the things you mentioned as well.

    Allan
     

  3. Default  
    #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    901
    IN respect to Zombie Runs- according to Ken Donat, the haunter's best insurance guru, ther has been a drastic drop in zombie runs as far as what he has seen personally. He stated he wrote a ton of insurance policies a few years ago and now only a few have survived. Makes you wonder about the whole zombie theme and over exposure (but that is another topic).

    The good thing about zombie runs or even mud runs is that they are NOT advertised or touted as a haunted house. That is the major issue I have with the extreme attractions. Zombie runs are a "running event" if too many injuries raise insurance rates their are either considered their own category or they effect other running events. Haunts stay clear. The Zombie Runs gained popularity quickly because of the exposure of anything zombie and the fact the runs are fairly easy to pull off. Get some space to run, some volunteers to dress as zombies and attack runners. Add some mud or water, amp it up (sometimes literally) and you have an event with a fraction of what it would take to start a haunted attraction.

    THIS is another fear I have of the extreme attractions. People will look at it and think, let's do this it's way cheaper! In essence you could just have one or two black rooms, no props, no effects, no scenery. Stick in a couple actors to "fake torture" then patrons and you're in business!! I am NOT stating that this is how any of the current attractions are being operated. I have not personally observed any of the actual attractions. There is the possibility that the feel they have taken steps to provide a level of safety. But I am sure that every actor is NOT a trained medical practitioner! My point is one of perception. Others see a couple of these attractions get publicity or appear to make money and viola a couple buddies are renting a space and touting the newest extreme attraction. BUT because no one knows or understands these attractions, they get promoted as something that people can relate to.....A HAUNTED HOUSE!!!

    Now we're back to square one and the crux of the issue, the extreme attraction effects the very livelihood of the haunted house attraction. That my friends is MY bread & butter and I really do not want MY livelihood effected by someone I have no dealings with or control of. They do something stupid,someone gets hurt or killed and MY business suffers.

    So how DO we protect ourselves from this inevitable situation? Suggestions on how we as haunt owners can distance ourselves and protect ourselves?
    R&J Productions
    Las Vegas, NV
    www.LasVegasHaunts.com
     

  4. Default That Whole "Definition" Thing/ 
    #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Ravens Grin Inn, 411 carroll st.mount carroll ill.
    Posts
    12,866
    1) A really neat, really old, fancy house
    2)Open for tours
    3) Charging an admission fee.
    4)People dressed in costumes, they guide you through the house
    5)They tell you all about it

    Is this a haunted house? A haunted attraction? No. It's just a historic , neat old house.
    Could they be required by the State to train their actors and have Criminal backround checks for everyone?
    I am not talking about my house, this is not my house, but techically speaking, maybe they should be complying with state expectations?

    Maybe 40 years ago?, a woman sued the Minnesota JCs for 11.4 Million dollars. Did they cut off her head? Will she never sing again?
    No,the suit was because "They Scared HER!"
    Odd as it may seem there was a period of our US history that had more lawsuits than any other time, during the years before the Civil War!
    (Maybe people were fighting over land boundrys or water rights? -Something more basically important in a young country.

    I once met a man who told me he had 3 Million dollars of insurance that only cost him $500 a year, BUT there was a general understanding that his First Claim.. would be his Last Claim, if he had one...He taught stunt men and actors how to faux-fight .

    I was in awe when a Haunter a few 100 miles from me was describing in detail exactly what they did in his Haunt on a night they were closed as far as the extreme program goes.
    Everyone participating is read a long legal form and has to sign several waivers. They do have a safe word which means "I'm Done, Stop Right NOW!"
    They are alone in a dark room as the one man describes to them what may or may not be happening,(He's trying to make them nervous, fearful) then they are grabbed by others coming from the surrounding darkness and hooded, lead away, tied down and touched some, one victim had a finger inserted in his belly-button with warm Vaseline on the finger!
    They were taken away from the building, driven around in circles, brought back walked up stairs, making them assume they are in a different setting, eventually taken to a downtown park and freed under the watchful eye of a employee pretending to be a bum in the park.
    The major mistake they made was assuming all of these victims were familiar with this city they found themselves suddenly in. This made for a longer trip back to the start/finish line for them.
    One woman was seemingly in great distress the whole time but never said her safe word to stop it. She really didn't want it to end.
    This experience impressed some of those who did it by surprising them with how much actual thought and effort, manpower and time went into it for their $45.00.
    I would never want to do such a thing myself on either end of it, perp. or victim.
    There were maybe just 12 who did this during thei first time .
    How something like this could ever be a big deal handling 1,000s a night ? I would not think so.
    Could this be called a :"Haunted House?" Tough to hook the two up in my opinion, but then have you ever heard someone ask an insurance man if they need more insurance?
     

  5. Default my take 
    #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Auburndale, FL
    Posts
    131
    Not that I have a lot of history on the topic, but I was alarmed with all of the kidnap scenarios and dumping stuff on your patrons. Smells of a gimmick. But as far as touching in General....I disagree. We operate a touch environment. A strictly enforced touch environment. And not everyone gets touched, and it is restricted to the arm or leg below the knee. But with our exit polling over 30% of the people polled said that "being touched" was their favorite part. And as far as creativity and Props I would say its premature to judge. I rent the building the whole year so we can do the most elaborate sets possible. Sure there were a few who didn't like it, but we make our patrons very well aware that contact is possible but not guaranteed. As far as insurance and liability, no one wants to get sued. But living in fear of bloodsuckers don't make them go away. Besides there is a term known as "implied consent" they would be hard pressed to show malicious intent. We could sit here all day and argue woulda shoulda coulda, and exaggerate the argument to "yeah buts", but lets face it. Our actors touch all the time, by accident of course, but it happens, I have seen people here in Florida at some of the big parks run towards someone and slip and fall into the person they were trying to scare. Cant live in a bubble. That's what males the market so great, it will correct itself. If people don't like it, it wont survive. Stay true to your vision, regardless of what the next guy is doing. We wont be going extreme on any touching level, but the brush along the ankle from a broken crypt caused more people to piss their pants than I expected.
     

  6. Default  
    #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    901
    There is very fine line with touching. We say there is no touching but advise that an actor may bump into them, brush against them or usually the patron touches the actor. That's our policy. Every night I get multiple questions of if people can get touched. I have yet to ever have someone disappointed that they were NOT getting touched!

    With the extreme attractions ( notice I NEVER say haunt) it isn't just touching, it is grabbing wher the actor makes and continues contact, basically holding or groping. Here's where you run the risk of crossing the line and becoming a sexual issue. Remember my post about insurance, if it is deemed sexual in nature, you are screwed (pun intended!)

    We all have good intentions. We may all instruct actors to only touch an arm or above the waist. But it's dark and it's a moving target and that arm ends up being a hand full of under aged breast! What was intially a minor brush, ends up being a full on fondle by the time they get out of the haunt and talk to their friends! But wait...I have strict rules for my actors!! Explain that to the judge! The plainiff is this cute little girl in pig tails. You probably can't even produce the actual actor (legitimately). So the judge has an image of a huge scary Freddie like character (has to be scary right?) attacking this cute little girl! Did I mentioned getting screwed!!!

    I am not saying we don't or you don't take precautions, what I am saying that almost everything that happens inside the haunt is out of your control...except Jim the one man haunt!! So amplify that by allowing or promoting touching you go down a road that is almost impossible detour from. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube!!

    It all goes back to creativity. It takes more talent to make the audience feel threatened without just grabbing them and slamming them into a wall. A lot can be done in the dark if you have their senses heightened. A feather touches without actor contact, a well placed air cannon replaces an actor grab, a haunt here uses a small wet sponge. Touch someone's neck they sweare someone licked them!
    And how do you heighten their senses? With well executed sets, scenery and atmosphere!
    R&J Productions
    Las Vegas, NV
    www.LasVegasHaunts.com
     

  7. Default About a Million Years ago.. 
    #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Ravens Grin Inn, 411 carroll st.mount carroll ill.
    Posts
    12,866
    As I was working in our local JC Haunt, wearing a silly Duck mask, some little girl maybe 14, came around a corner quickly and we almost ran into one another.
    She quickly pulled her body back from me, then proceeded to say the following:"Don't touch my boobs! I hate it when people touch my boobs! I have been in here four times , and everytime someone has touched my boobs!"
    As she said all of this, she accented the "B" word everytime she said it by pushing her small, thin, undeveloped chest toward me.

    We didn't have many people come through our second-year haunt. I was there every night it was open, I never saw her before this meeting which was then followed by her threats and odd mannerisms.
     

  8. Default bubble? 
    #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Auburndale, FL
    Posts
    131
    The way I see it is you cant live in a bubble your whole life being afraid of what MIGHT happen. I think most of us agree that these "Extreme Touching" attractions are a bit over the top. But a lot of the arguments about getting sued are feeble. Do you really believe for a moment that if you tell the "Judge" as referred to earlier that because you told your actors NOT to touch that he is going to sway one way or the other if your actor takes it upon his/herself to grope someone? You are still liable regardless of the intent. That's the risk of owning your own business (which is why the government deserves half...another topic) But to say that you are safer because you instruct actors not to do something is more risky than not preparing for anything and everything is a false narrative. There are risks not matter what when you open your doors to the public, there are people that just look for trouble. You aren't going to change that because your actor purposely grabs a breast or bumps in to one during a hand flash. If that person is looking for a reason you don't always have to give them one. State of our society unfortunately. Its just not that black and white, I have been around the country to many of the LARGER venues and have been touched in all of them. Intentional or not. In fact the only place I don't encounter actors is at our lovely theme parks where most of the actors stand there and wait for you to walk by. If that is what your show is like please warn us first. : )
     

  9. Default So Here Is A question: 
    #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Ravens Grin Inn, 411 carroll st.mount carroll ill.
    Posts
    12,866
    For Three? Years now we are required by the State to get Criminal backround checks for all of our employees. After passing this with a clean backround check, would this tend to release us as show owners from some of the liability if/when someone claims they were touched by that employee?
    Would the State or the backround checker then possibly have to share some of the blame, unless of course the applicant provided false name or other info so they could be checked out of course.
    Another thing, if a failed "pass" comes back, does the law actually forbide them working? Or does such a situation merely make the owner aware and throw ALL responsibility upon the owner? (This might sound dumb, but I have never quite had this part of it explained in this area..)
    Our one employee from several years ago kept getting bumped out of the system(which then doubles the fee) because someone else had once used part of his name during criminal activites.
    The "Computer" had him in jail the same time he was here. The actual criminal robbed a Bank, he was wearing a dress. Our employee upstairs also wears a dress sometimes, but then that happens sometimes to almost anybody, right? (attempted humor)
    He was told that EVERY TIME he now needs a backround check, he will have to pay to have someone finger print him to prove he is not the other guy.
    Steven Law, an Englishman has his name on a list from the US Treasury Dept, because some drug dealer used this name as his own, the Gov. computer kicks it out stopping mail delivery, banking transactions, booking airline tickets, resulting in much hassle,of course, but his name will remain upon that computer listing forever...BBC news a few days ago.
    Last edited by Jim Warfield; 02-13-2014 at 11:56 AM.
     

  10. Default  
    #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    9,283
    I have to admit that we are going a bit more extreme for 2014 with The Darkness and if you go to our haunt tour this year you'll see what I mean!

    We will have two giant puppets that will touch you and will try to bite you. We have a Venus Fly trap that will close on you and bite you! We will have a saw come out of the ceiling and buzz across your head. We will have a clown fart on your head... you walk under his legs. And lets not forget the whole water cannon thing a lot of you guys are using them now spraying people in the face... some people get upset.

    We have a bug killer actor and he strays people in the face saying its bug spray. I think as we all move forward that we must find ways to ramp up the touching, the extreme side without actually having our actors touch people or put people in real danger.

    I think its where we need to go with it...

    I think there are other sides to extreme as well such as we are doing giant underwear made to look soiled... you can do extreme gore and so much more.

    I think we will all be looking at extreme up the attractions over the years however I'm never going to let my actors touch people, or run around naked (LOL), or handcuff people or whatever... but there are ways to ramp it up!

    Larry
     

Thread Information
Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •